Un And France - In Bed Again

[Craig Read]

The UN and France, both of whom raped Iraq during the 1990's while thousands perished, are now kissing and fondling again. Both want an immediate return to Iraqi control all functions of gov't, and security.

To say this is crass, childish and unnecessary is obvious.

Why then do they state it and what is behind this policy ? After all, neither the UN nor France gave a whittler's damn about the Iraqi people during the 1990s while they were tortured and murdered. Why the sudden sentiment and concern ??

[SirRiff]

look at the mountains of evidence that shows how the US knowingly exagerated WMD claims. its insane.

no reasonable person can claim there was an immediate threat from WMDs.

just didnt exist.

not to mention they claimed they knew all sorts of secret locations from all sorts of intelligence sources and would reveal the truth and such.

they have found nothing, becuase they never knew anything at all before the way.

it was all a lie to satisfy some neo-con strategic policy.

the bush admin lied to the world about WMDS while trying to capitalize on 9/11 sympathies. they deserve no trust from anyone.

SirRiff

[nova_satori]

The UN and France, both of whom raped Iraq during the 1990's while thousands perished, are now kissing and fondling again. Both want an immediate return to Iraqi control all functions of gov't, and security.

To say this is crass, childish and unnecessary is obvious.

Why then do they state it and what is behind this policy ? After all, neither the UN nor France gave a whittler's damn about the Iraqi people during the 1990s while they were tortured and murdered. Why the sudden sentiment and concern ??

NO, they want a quick return of control to Iraqis. NOT IMMEDIATE. BIG DIFFERENCE. It appalls me how Craig twists everything, including the english lanaguge to suit his biased cases.

Neither did the US. Your point?

[Craig Read]

Twist what ?? Be specific - 'everything' is hardly concrete. Both have said 'immediate' you can even check the National Post story on this website if you like. Chirac was clear - he wants it within one month. King Kofi he of global warming and Hussein 'is a man I can do business with [1998]', stated yesterday he wants the US out ASAP. The fact that no one should listen to this guy is obvious but the media was loving it.

Mr. Annan has joined France in saying there should be an immediate transfer of power to an Iraqi interim government, followed by the writing of a constitution and elections for a representative government

[sce Canada.com 10-05-03]

Note the word IMMEDIATE.

France was making $7 billion per annum in illegal contracts during the 90s. Hussein and Chirac were/are good friends. Le Monde is demanding a police investigation into purported political donations by Hussein to Chirac.

The UNO under its sanctions 'oil for everything' plan, took out of Iraq $55 Billion and returned in food and items $34 Billion. According to the WSJ and others, the remainder is sitting in French banks.

Why does the Liberal media not investigate THIS ?

Neither the UNO nor France gave a damn during the 90s about the Iraqi people. Now suddenly they are concerned about the 'democratic' processes in Iraq.

Please.

[Derek]

look at the mountains of evidence that shows how the US knowingly exagerated WMD claims. its insane.

no reasonable person can claim there was an immediate threat from WMDs.

just didnt exist.

it was all a lie to satisfy some neo-con strategic policy.

the bush admin lied to the world about WMDS while trying to capitalize on 9/11 sympathies. they deserve no trust from anyone.

SirRiff

Well IF the Bush Admin. Lied so did Jacque Chirac, and the top dem. Leaders, (Clinton, Gore, Liberman, Daschel.

Just didn't exist huh, thats all you got. They weren't there

you really think saddam would destroy what he was so intent on developing the last 2 decades?

You are ignorant.

And I quote:

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

In my view this guy is the exact definition of a hypocrite.

The UN debated to send in weapons inspectors, this is pathetic, saddam got his weapons out of there or buried them underneath the desert.

[Craig Read]

Derek great post showing the perfidy of France.

Here is another one - lots of French made anti-aircraft missiles have been found since the end of the War.

Apparently those trustworthy, democratic and sensitive to the plight of the Iraqi people French, sold illegally a lot of weapons to Hussein during the 1990s. In particular the French made Roland systems have been found pretty much everywhere.

Polish troops discovered French-made anti-aircraft missiles in Iraq, a U.S. military source said Saturday. France swiftly denied selling any weapons to Iraq in violation of a U.N. arms embargo.......Officials at the Polish Defense Ministry declined to comment Saturday. But a statement on a ministry Web site said: "Soldiers of a Polish patrol of sappers found four modern anti-aircraft short-distance Roland-type rockets near Hilla in Iraq."

The statement did not identify the country or date of manufacture and said Polish military engineers destroyed them on Wednesday.

It said Polish troops seized about a dozen missiles in total near Hilla on Tuesday, including Soviet-made Malutka, French Hot and French-German Milan missiles.

The coalition official said the Roland missiles are about 25 feet long, radar-guided and launched from the back of a truck.

The U.S. military found 35 Roland missiles when it captured Baghdad International Airport in April. Roland missiles also were found when Australian troops captured an airfield in western Iraq.

The Web site GlobalSecurity.org says the Roland weapon system is intended for anti-aircraft defense of armored and mechanized the units to counter aircraft flying to nearly at 1 times the speed of sound or hovering helicopters.

Have to love those freedom loving French.

[SirRiff]

why are you talking about france?

the Us is the occupying force, france has nothing to defend, let them say whateve they want.

the nation that attacks first, and is the occupier is the one that needs to defend its action. nobody cares what europe says.

when you are dropping bombs and occupying a sovereign nation, you alone bear the responsibility for your actions.

if saddam was such a crazy maniac why has he been sitting like a bitch for 12 years getting bombed every day under no fly? why hast he charged into isreal or kuwait?

because he is a middle aged man who loves his cigars and palaces, he is not a suicide bomber. iraq is a third world nation, and any WMD that they may have had a decade ago are uselsss and non threatening to the US. any move he would make would require a full US realiation adn he knows it. he was content to live out his life in luxory obviously.

the WMD argument was all a lie, they claimed they knew all this shit about where they were adn so much of the intel turned out to be false, now there is nothing but angry iraqis and a big international problem.

SirRiff

[Craig Read]

Riff, read lots of other posts on WMD. Plenty of evidence existed before the war started as these posts stated on WMD, the French as Nuclear posted I believe or Derek, fully agreed that Hussein had WMD. So did the Canadians in various CSIS reports. As i wrote on other posts, WMD more than likely will be found and there are good reasons why it takes so long.

The question posed by THIS thread is why is suddenly France so concerned about the poor Iraqi people and 'democracy'. They spent 30 years in bed with Hussein, made lots of money while he warred, gassed, tortured and killed, and now presto! they want to protect the rights of the Iraqi nation.

This is hypocrisy, so blatant, so large, so nauseating, that the Foreign ministries of developed nations must be doubled up in laughter at the mere thought that now the French are democrats. Ditto for the UN, which raped Iraq during the 90s and now wants to protect one of its favorites - Syria - from what it has coming.

The reason for this posturing is plain - anti-US sentiment and politicking. As LBJ said, all politics is retail, meaning domestic. Chirac, one of the most corrupt politicians in French history, feels he is the natural leader of the EU.

[Nuclear]

france has nothing to defend,

It's a good thing....history has proven that they are not good at it...

[SirRiff]

It's a good thing....history has proven that they are not good at it...

easy to say when you have oceans surrounding you. americans almost died of shock when psuedo-war on 9/11 was brought to their shores. europeans still know what war is like on your own soil, so does the middle east and africa. americans dont even care enough to be interested in who they are bombing for what reason.

SirRiff

[Craig Read]

And the Canadians are good at WHAT ?

You are not a Canadian patriot Riff, but a Raff of odious nationalism.

You have no clue what patriotism is about.

You would be the isolationist of 1939 applauding the Munich agreement of 1938.

You would have yawned at the Iron Curtain.

South Korea would have elicited a sick wave of the hand.

South Vietnam - you have would have said 'let the people decide'.

Central America and Chile - too boring to contemplate but you would have supported the Russian backed 'agrarian' reformers.

Terror ? What terror ? No one will bomb my little town so why should i care ?

Imbecilic in the clinical term meaning the mental age of 7-9 applies to yourself.

Go somewhere else and post your crap.

[SirRiff]

wow, you just proved your own level of intelligence far beyond anything i could have said craig.

Sirriff

[Black Dog]

What's this have to do with religion?

[SirRiff]

What's this have to do with religion?

i'm sure craig has a good reason why the social elites of canada forced him to post in this forum.

personally i dont see how religion enters into politics anyways, since it all boils down to a spectrum of philosophies about right and wrong anyways. its all relative morality. would jesus cut taxes?

sirRiff

[Craig Read]

Not sure how religion and politics are mixed ?

Is this a real comment ?

Islam is an example.

The Pope is another.

Every country in the West has a party that has large and widespread religious support.

Morality and spirituality is a vital component of socio-economic development and political affairs.

You clowns are the first to denigrate for instance, Bush's Conservative values, feeling that a married man who goes to Church, feels strongly about Christ, does not get BJs in the Oval office, is against gay marriage, and does not perform out of marriage sexual acts is an obvious degenerate and imbecile.

What planet are you guys from anyways ?

Why do you bother to post, other than to posit anti-american and anti-jew drivel ?

[Black Dog]

Not sure how religion and politics are mixed ?

Is this a real comment ?

No, dipshit, the question was: how does the topic of France and the UN have to do with religion and politics. Other than as a platform for you to wate bandwith with your narrow-minded racist tripe.'

You clowns are the first to denigrate for instance, Bush's Conservative values, feeling that a married man who goes to Church, feels strongly about Christ, does not get BJs in the Oval office, is against gay marriage, and does not perform out of marriage sexual acts is an obvious degenerate and imbecile.

An alcoholic, "former" coke-head, a draft-dodger who coasted through life soley on the basis of his priviledged background and familial connections, who acts as little more than a tool for the elite interests who placed him in power. A hypocrite who mouths platitudes about Christianity while shitting all over the principles espoused by Jesus. Who is in bed with special interests whose only interests are enriching themseles at the expense of otehrs and the nation ("Kenny-boy" Lay, anyone?): this is your icon of "conservative" values. No surprise: you both share a total lack of any values, or morality even as you pontificate on the same subject.

Why do you bother to post, other than to posit anti-american and anti-jew drivel ?

Just piss you off, sweetie: just to piss you off.

[Craig Read]

Post removed due to violation of forum rules.

Greg

Admin

[SirRiff]

Yeah no kidding. You are an abominal idiot. If you live in Toronto, let's meet and I will change your facial bone organisation you loser.

You add zero value and have no intelligence to extend to others.

BHAHAHAHA

anybody else notice how the first statement undermines the other?

oh god, so funny. i feel sorry for people who cant choose between rational though and fanatical rantings and end up doing both badly.

whoops...not adhering to the strict political content..but it was just too easy to pass up.

SirRiff

[Mr Farrius]

Yeah no kidding. You are an abominal idiot. If you live in Toronto, let's meet and I will change your facial bone organisation you loser.

You add zero value and have no intelligence to extend to others.

Let's hope the EU never rivals the US, and in the meantime you shrew, get lost. And yeah anytime you want to meet to get a free facial reconstruction let me know jackass.

Stop acting like a 4th grader. Nobody's intimidated. Sir Riff is right. Just stop talking because then you expose more of your foolishness and immaturity.

[Black Dog]

Yeah no kidding. You are an abominal idiot. If you live in Toronto, let's meet and I will change your facial bone organisation you loser.

You add zero value and have no intelligence to extend to others.

Wuv you too.

France is a hypocritical second rate power that wants the EU to rival the US and has never had any inkling of concern for the Iraqi people. They watched 10 years of death, and now suddenly they 'feel' for the poor Iraqi's. Break my heart. No wonder you like the french, you are just as ignorant and corrupt as they are.

Let's hope the EU never rivals the US, and in the meantime you shrew, get lost. And yeah anytime you want to meet to get a free facial reconstruction let me know jackass.

Where did I defend france and the deplorable Chirac? Nowhere. But as usual you're too dumb to actually read what's posted, instead choosing to plunge off the deep end into hysterical, paranoid denunciations and threats of physical violence (which are easily thrown via the anonimity of the internet). You're cracking.

As for France's actions vis a vis Iraq, they are no doubt motivated by hyopocritical self-interest, in much the same way as the American neocon's sudden "concern" for the Iraqi people (at a time when it became convinient to use such concern as a pretext to bolster their own national interests) found its voice despite decades of support for Saddam's regime. Hypocracy is the one thing you can count on from all political stripes. Only a blind fool would seek out the worst motivations for some while ascribing the noblest to others purely on faith.

[Craig Read]

The thread deals with France and the UN and their attempt to remodel the world into a socialist EU styled welfare system.

Kyoto is the apogee of such efforts.

France is no friend of freedom. I don't see any historical evidence of France defending freedom for the sake of liberte, egalite or even securite.

The French are deeply antagonistic to the Americans, forgetting that US hegemony, money and blood guaranteed their freedoms.

The UNO and EU as the epicentres of French ambition must be viewed through a lens of realism.

The French have never given a damn about anything other than money and their vaunted political arrogance.

[Mr Farrius]

The French have never given a damn about anything other than money and their vaunted political arrogance.

Wow. The U.S. and the French should be best friends then!

[Craig Read]

Maybe the US should charge Canada for the following:

1. Health care technology transfers from the US to Canada

2. Fair market prices for drugs

3. Defence

France can also pay the war debts it owes the US plus interest.

Then maybe shallow minded nationalist nitwits like yourself would wake up and understand what it costs to be a nation and take a seat at the adult table.

[Craig Read]

And we should add the UNO inspired, and EU supported ie. FRENCH inspired, Kyoto Protocol - one of the dimmest and dumbest ideas in history.

Canada should stop paying attention to these socialist nitwits and worry about building economic advantage.

Apparently even our Russian friends understand that the Kyoto farce is an economic penalty on growth, clean societies and proper energy development.

much of the Kremlin leadership seems to have reached the intellectual conclusion that the protocol is a lot of hot air. Mr. Illarionov in particular has repeatedly had the courage to say what most politicians won't: Both the science and the economics of Kyoto are fundamentally flawed.

In remarks at an October international climate conference in Moscow, Mr. Illarionov noted that the science on which Kyoto is based has never been able to explain basic questions. Most glaring is why the Earth warmed so much in the early part of the 20th century, before the boom in carbon dioxide emissions. Another is why the near-earth atmosphere (measured by satellites) isn't warming as much as the Earth's surface. There's also the nagging problem that temperatures more than 1,000 years ago at times appear to have been as warm, if not warmer, than today's.

Yet while Kyoto's science might be theory, its economic costs are real. Mr. Illarionov pointed out that the past 40 years of data show a correlation in 150 countries between increasing carbon dioxide emissions and higher GDP; countries with no growth in emissions were marked by stagnation. This is of real concern to Mr. Putin, who has committed himself to doubling Russia's GDP by 2010. "No country in the world can double its GDP with a lower increase in carbon dioxide emissions," said Mr. Illarionov.

Russia isn't alone in these concerns, even if it's alone in voicing them. European signatories are realizing it will be impossible for the EU to emerge from global recession while also cutting emissions. Even with lackluster growth Europe has missed its emissions targets, and at current rates is expected to bring emissions down just 4.7% by the time the targets become binding, compared with the 8% reduction from 1990 levels it promised.