Let's call a spade a spade

[Figleaf]

Why pussyfoot around?

[jbg]

Why pussyfoot around?

In our country, we saw what happened, correcty, to state "separatists".

[Canadian Blue]

I'd think that somebody on the left would be a bit more liberal on the issue.

Anyways, people are free to support whatever beliefs they hold. Freedom of speech and expression will always remain free no matter what a person's beliefs are.

[B. Max]

Should CSIS keep track of separatists?

Actually I think they should keep an eye on guys like this. What they suggest is unconstitutional and at the very least theft. Anyway all this CSIS talk and theft plans are good for Alberta secession so keep it up.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Figleaf,

Why pussyfoot around?

Indeed, I would likely be willing to take arms to keep Alberta from seceding.

[Drea]

Indeed. Separatists are traitors. Their entire goal is to undermine the country. Throw 'em all in jail.

[B. Max]

Dear Figleaf,

Why pussyfoot around?

Indeed, I would likely be willing to take arms to keep Alberta from seceding.

There will be plenty in Alberta willing to take up arms to see that you don't succeed.

[geoffrey]

Should CSIS keep track of separatists?

Actually I think they should keep an eye on guys like this. What they suggest is unconstitutional and at the very least theft. Anyway all this CSIS talk and theft plans are good for Alberta secession so keep it up.

Ugh. CSIS watching me?

I'm only a sepertist when the ROC screws me daily, when all my tax dollars go to provinces where people sit on their asses laughing at our labour shortage. When the Newfies get to work, the Quebecois stop whining about not getting every last dollar out of Ottawa, then I'll gladly be a very patriotic Canada.

It doesn't work for Alberta, it can change and Alberta can have a reasonable place in confederation. But our second class colony status isn't acceptable to anyone that lives here.

The real theft is from the Eastern folks and Quebec from my hard earned money.

[homework]

whoever says CSIS should keep a watch on separatists, and whoever advocates stopping seperatists through forceful measures

are crazy.

absolutely crazy.

from the pure point of view of the state, it would make sense for Canada to quickly "look after" all possible seperatists, but really, this is a bit too Big Brother for all of us?

[FTA Lawyer]

You want to "call a spade a spade" and then you set up a completely misleading poll using slanted questions and improper definitions.

My vote on question 1 is yes...becuase by definition you are disloyal to the confederacy of Canada if you advocate Provincial separation...this seems like a no-brainer to me.

My vote on question 2 is no...because why the hell should CSIS monitor every person who is disloyal to the confederacy of Canada?

And it is question 2 which totally blows your "call a spade a spade" intentions...apparently if I say CSIS shouldn't monitor such people, I must also profess that "traitors" should be dealt with softly.

First of all, someone who is disloyal to Canada in the context that we are talking about (advocating Provincial separation) is not necessarily a traitor in the way you and others on this thread are using the word.

Sure, going against some abstract notion of allegiance to Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada by advocating the dissolution of Canada is traitorous in the broad sense of the term...but democracy by its very nature permits this type of "traitor" to live and participate within the country's boundaries without fear of reprisal.

The logical disconnect you make is when you equate a "traitor" who simply legally advocates against the country continuing as is with a true traitor who commits treasonous acts.

In our criminal law, treason requires an act of violence or war against the Queen or the country (or conspiracy to do such acts) and trying to get your province lawfully and peacefully out of Confederation is not an act of war.

Even when we move down the chain below High Treason and Treason to Sedition, all sedition-related offences are subject to the following exception:

...no person shall be deemed to have a seditious intention by reason only that he intends, in good faith,

a) to show that Her Majesty has been misled or mistaken in her measures;

to point out errors or defects in

i) the government or constitution of Canada or a province,

ii) Parliament or the legislature of a province, or

iii) the administration of justice in Canada;

c) to procure, by lawful means, the alteration of any matter of government in Canada; or

d) to point out, for the purpose of removal, matters that produce or tend to produce feelings of hostility and ill-will between different classes of persons in Canada.

Bottom line is that our society fully endorses a person's right to advocate for Provincial separation, so those who take positions regarding "punishment of traitors" are simply ill-advised.

FTA

[August1991]

Canada has a long history of "anti-confederates":

Nova Scotians elected 18 out of 19 anti-Confederation candidates as members of the first Dominion Parliament. Joseph Howe led the anti-Confederates in the Canadian House of Commons where he made a speech about his opposition to Confederation.

Wikipedia

Long after CSIS has been reformed under some other new acronym, there will be more separatists arising under new names too.

Incidentally, Trudeau did ask the RCMP to monitor separatists in Quebec and they went as far as recruiting a senior PQ minister as a paid informer.

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Figleaf, in the future,could you please choose thread titles that provide more information than "Let's call a spade a spade"? I wondered whether this thread was about bridge or gardening.