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Racism, a Fable based on fact


daddyhominum

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My daughter came home from school today with a question for her dear, old Dad.

“Our PoliSci professors at the U of Lethbridge run a web site called MapleLeaf Web which is a resource for the study of Canadian politics”, she began, “ A few days ago someone posted the following as part of a discussion: "Muslims blow up buildings and buses. " Am i wrong? No because it happens on a daily basis.” A few of us have been discussing the question, “Is he wrong in that statement?”

“Did the group decide on an answer”, I asked.

“ Well” she said, “Most of us think he is right. They do blow up stuff”

“How does that make you feel”, I asked, “to know that Muslims blow things up?”

“I don’t think I want to be around Muslims”, she answered, “They’re crazy!”

“Do the others feel like that?” I wondered.

“Worse”, she said. “Bob says he is going to drop out and join the Canadian Army so he can go to Afghanistan and kill the bastards. Julia reckons they should be sent back where they came from or at least restricted to special areas. None of us can understand why the government doesn’t do something about the murderous fifth column of Muslims.”

“Do you hate Muslims because they bomb?” I said.

“No”, she said, “I don’t hate them. I just want them gone from my country with their bombs and sharia and theocratic rule. Preferably alive but gone anyway”

“Do you remember that summer job you had two years ago with the publishing company?” I enquired., “ Your boss had an odd name. What was it again?”

“Hamid, something,” she said, “His last name was unpronounceable so I don’t remember it”

“I thought he was Muslim”, I said.

“Oh no,” she replied, “He was a real sweetie, wouldn’t harm a fly, great boss. He was an Arab, I think, from Saudi Arabia. I loved his little girls”

“ Do you think he would bomb anyone?”

“Don’t be ridiculous!” she said.

“But he was Muslim and so was his wife and those lovely children”, I told her.

“He couldn’t have been a Muslim. He was just like you and I”, she protested.

“Perhaps the statement is wrong, then,” I suggested, “After all, if Hamid is a Muslim but Hamid is not a bomber, then the statement that Muslims are bombers can’t be true. That is deductive logic. If Muslims are bombers and Hamid is Muslim, then Hamid must be a bomber. On the other hand, if Hamid is not a bomber, then the statement is false”

“But”, she said, “Some Muslims do bomb. We read it every day.”

“Of course, “ I said, "Some Muslims do bad things just like people in all cultures and ethnicities. But if we say all members of a group are the same as one person in a group in all respects, we are being racists. But Canada is a nation of individuals with the rule of law and protection for the rights of minorities within that law. Racists hate that equality and strive to obtain a special position.”

She said, “ I guess the statement, “Muslims blow up buildings and buses.” is wrong in fact because only some people who are Muslims bomb. The vast majority are people of like Hamid, kind and gentle, and productive citizens.

I will bring this up tomorrow when we sit talking. I am not about to let posters on Maple Leaf Web persuade my friends to hate people I love and respect by making false statements. That is really wrong”

“I think you should start looking for a new school for next year. You’re not going to get a good education at a University that shelters and encourages racists.”

(Disclaimer: The above is entirely fictitious and posted only for the purposes of educating and informing) LOL!!

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All you have to do is advice people to go and read about this stuff. We are lucky enough to have public libraries - so we cannot even use cost as an excuse for not bothering.

Simple belief of who says what is actually worse than racism itself for it will not involve critique or even curiosity - just acceptance.

Ducking your head in the sand or banning what does not appeal to you is equally as stupid. In that way it would mean that every poster on the US relations thread would have to be banned, likewise every poster on the topic of Israel would also have to be. Likewise the abortion/religion thread. . . .and so it goes on.

What this poster attempted to do was show how lecturers and students in education promote their own views.

ironically; he shows exactly what happens (im part of the uni establishment and always see this in student essays, student presentations, student newspapers and seminar debates between profs purposely occupying opposite positions as an intellectual exercise - apalling or otherwise.

Universities have the official RIGHT to do that. . . . according to tenure for associate and seniour profs for students as portrayed under the banner of a learning environment . . . however wrong or ignorant they maybe. The penalty is simply a low grade because they cannot back up their argument. What universities ask for over a given opinion is research and the citing of resourses. If that is given we cannot do a thing about it. Other than to do a counter research to shred the former to bits through a demonstration of evidence.

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(if the PoliSci department at U of L has a course based on the misadventures of the MLW message board, I think I'd advise little Susie to start looking for a new college too.)

That's a lovely story, Mr Hominum. You should consider selling it as a one-act play. I could picture it being acted out with sock puppets on a Very Special Episode of Sesame Street.

-k

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(if the PoliSci department at U of L has a course based on the misadventures of the MLW message board, I think I'd advise little Susie to start looking for a new college too.)

That's a lovely story, Mr Hominum. You should consider selling it as a one-act play. I could picture it being acted out with sock puppets on a Very Special Episode of Sesame Street.

-k

Ah but why would'nt students lurk on boards such as MLW?

Apparently there is a cross section of political ideas that would give students a peek into the minds of Canadians...

So the story certainly could be true.

According to the right wing, aren't all Canadian universities bastions of commies indoctrinating our youth anyway?

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Today when my daughter came home from school, she was upset and confused. She told me she had renewed the discussion about Muslims being bombers again telling them how recognizing the facts of her own experience with Muslims, she now felt the statement was wrong and very harmful to society.

“But, Dad,” she said, “As soon as I had described those facts and the reason for my change of mind, one of the boys became very angry”.

“That’s odd”, I thought aloud, “University students usually love to argue and discuss issues like racism as they try to discover the truth”

“Not this guy!” said my daughter. “He jumped up, shouted I was spouting garbage, and he was going to report me to the Dean who would make me shut up.”

“ That must have been kind of scary”, I replied. “Did he threaten you in any other way?”

She said, “No, but everybody else said that we better talk about something else.”

“That’s pretty normal behaviour at any age. We’d rather avoid a topic then upset someone”, I said. “What did you say ?”

“It’s fine with me,” she said, “I’m not his Mommy or his teacher. It isn’t my job to straighten him out”.

“So you still think he is wrong but you are willing to forgive and forget?

“Yeh, basically. I need friends more then I need confrontation over something that doesn’t affect me”

“Ah, if only life were really that simple!” I declared, “Someday ask me to tell you the story Fritz told me about Amsterdam and the Nazi invasion. In the meantime, look up the poem attributed to Martin Niemoller even though it does not fit his character. The words have been often paraphrased. I like this variant:

"Madame Guillotine" by the Legendary Pink Dots:

First they rounded up the reds

But I'm not red so...

Then they rounded up the blacks

But I'm not black so...

Then they rounded up the gypsies

And the junkies and the donkeys.

Now I'm scared to whistle 'swanee'

'Cause they'll ask me for my spit...”

I wonder if the Dean will ask you for your spit this time”

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Well if the original post was ment to generate a discussion on racism, for me it did an extremely poor job of raising anything insightful. In fact it comes across so simplistic and sugary, it runs the risk of doing the exact opposite of what the reader was probably trying to intend.

It would have been simpler if he simply stated;

"generalizations and stereotypes that are negative are not necessarily accurate or far and can lead to discriminatory behaviour'. The syrupy sh..t I could have done without. That is my personal opinion of course.

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"generalizations and stereotypes that are negative are not necessarily accurate or far and can lead to discriminatory behaviour'. The syrupy sh..t I could have done without. That is my personal opinion of course.

Shi..t?

Aw shit...I can't figure out words with dots for letters.....

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hominem,

Not all Germans were Nazi thugs but alot of good that did the jews.

In the rest of society when we see wrongdoers we feret them and speak out against them. Not all Hells Angels are murderers but if they're aqcuiescing and allowing wrongdoers to continue without reporting them, they are part of the problem.

"Moderate" muslims, if they disapprove of terrorist acts, should be the LOUDEST and most adamant opponents of extremist groups within their religion. I don't see that happening. Instead what I see are token press release statements from Imams and alot of posturing about "backlash against muslims".

Oh - and by the way Hominem yours is a straw man argument.

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"Moderate" muslims, if they disapprove of terrorist acts, should be the LOUDEST and most adamant opponents of extremist groups within their religion. I don't see that happening. Instead what I see are token press release statements from Imams and alot of posturing about "backlash against muslims".

Who, exactly, is that ritual condemnation supposed to benefit? Is the point to stop terrorism or just to make you feel better about brown people?

And there's really no comparison between radical Islam and the Nazis. As much as the Islamists may love to wipe out Israel, reestablish the Caliphate or what have you, it just ain't gonna happen.

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"Moderate" muslims, if they disapprove of terrorist acts, should be the LOUDEST and most adamant opponents of extremist groups within their religion. I don't see that happening. Instead what I see are token press release statements from Imams and alot of posturing about "backlash against muslims".

Who, exactly, is that ritual condemnation suppossed to benefit? Is the poin to stop terrorism or just to make you feel better about brown people?

Big generalization - not all Muslims are brown, Black Dog.

Ritual condemnation without action is pretty much what sums up the UN so if your on side with most of the world that likes how the UN operates you should appreciate and love "ritual condemnation".

And if PR or public perception is an issue for Muslims, ritual condemnation would be a good starting point toward a better public perception. If they don't care about perceptions then there is no problem here.

Youn can't have i both ways guys.

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Big generalization - not all Muslims are brown, Black Dog.

Well, I'm glad one thing I've told you has stuck.

Ritual condemnation without action is pretty much what sums up the UN so if your on side with most of the world that likes how the UN operates you should appreciate and love "ritual condemnation".

And what does this have to do with the price of tea in China?

And if PR or public perception is an issue for Muslims, ritual condemnation would be a good starting point toward a better public perception. If they don't care about perceptions then there is no problem here.

Shorter JS: "I demand more empty gestures!" :lol:

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In the meantime, look up the poem attributed to Martin Niemoller even though it does not fit his character
I have seen Niemoller referenced lots of times, mostly by our troll. Lies, garbage and trolling, then snivelling about how 'freedom of speech' should also protect lying, and trolling, and if you don't like it, you must be a nazi. Hogwash. I shall put you on 'ignore' until such is the time that you are banned.
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Good escape on your accidental racism

As opposed to your intentional racism.

Doggy this topic is about racism.

My position is simply that Muslims could do something to improve their image.

I see, so perhaps they should issue public statements or press releases decrying terrorism? Hold demonstrations? Maybe key figures in the Muslm community could write editorials about how the majority of the planets 1.5 billion Muslims are peaceful? Oh wait: they do that already. But that's not good enough, apparently.

Here's the thing: Islam isn't like Catholicism. There's no central authority for believers to follow, no single doctrine to adhere to. No one group can possibly speak for all Muslims, thus the difficulty in acheiving some unified front against terrorism.

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Good escape on your accidental racism

As opposed to your intentional racism.

Doggy this topic is about racism.

My position is simply that Muslims could do something to improve their image.

I see, so perhaps they should issue public statements or press releases decrying terrorism? Hold demonstrations? Maybe key figures in the Muslm community could write editorials about how the majority of the planets 1.5 billion Muslims are peaceful? Oh wait: they do that already. But that's not good enough, apparently.

Here's the thing: Islam isn't like Catholicism. There's no central authority for believers to follow, no single doctrine to adhere to. No one group can possibly speak for all Muslims, thus the difficulty in acheiving some unified front against terrorism.

What's racist about pointing out groups that hate us? Man you've twisted so far you're not sure which way is up.

Not sure about you, but I don't call 10,000 protesters in dearborn michigan waving Hezbollah flags a good "anti terroism" message.

Or the Toronto Danish Cartoon protester who said "We won't stop until the world obey's Islamic Law".

Not sure which column to put that one in but it's safe bet it's not in the "pro Canada" section.

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What's racist about pointing out groups that hate us? Man you've twisted so far you're not sure which way is up.

I'm referring to your tirade about bombing "Arabs" a little while back. Do try to keep up.

Not sure about you, but I don't call 10,000 protesters in dearborn michigan waving Hezbollah flags a good "anti terroism" message.

How about 20,000 in Cologne against terrorism? 15,000 in Qatar? 150,000 in Morrocco? Look 'em up.

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What's racist about pointing out groups that hate us? Man you've twisted so far you're not sure which way is up.

I'm referring to your tirade about bombing "Arabs" a little while back. Do try to keep up.

Not sure about you, but I don't call 10,000 protesters in dearborn michigan waving Hezbollah flags a good "anti terroism" message.

How about 20,000 in Cologne against terrorism? 15,000 in Qatar? 150,000 in Morrocco? Look 'em up.

What's racist about bombing Arabs if they are our enemy? They do it to Jews all the time. You lefties are so obsessd with PC you can't seem to get the "nuance" (sic).

As for the protests - that's great news and a great start. Now if we could just erase the firebombings of the danish embassy and the pro Hezbollah behead enemy of Allah routines we'd be well on our way to some good PR ;)

I would encourage any kinds of protests by Muslims against terrorism.

I also encourage the Muslims who infiltrate militants and turn them in - great job guys. Keep up the good work.

We can solve this thing yet!

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post reported to moderator. Bout time for this garbage to be put to bed.

What was wrong with the post? Aside from not being the most gripping prose ever....?

It's flamebait and trolling. Besides, there's a reason he uses "Hominem" in his name. because he like sto post ad hominems towards those who disagree with him.

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(Disclaimer: The above is entirely fictitious and posted only for the purposes of educating and informing) LOL!!

The problem with your simplistic little story is it assumes everyone is a blithering imbecile who will instantly believe everything they're told, get hysterical, and then act violently. It also assumes that there aren't millions of people in this country who already think Muslims blow things up a lot - because they see it in the media every single day.

Your sillly story is cut-rate fearmongering aimed at eliminating freedom of speech. For clearly if people are willing to commit violence merely over reading on a web site that muslims blow things up then there are scads of things we need to "protect" them from seeing, reading and hearing. Like ht news, for example.

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What's racist about bombing Arabs if they are our enemy?

Complete the deduction:

Axiom (A) Arabs are our enemy.

Axiom (B)It is correct to bomb our enemies.

Determine the corollary for each instance in the list below.

Salman Rushdie is an Arab.

The Aga Khan is an Arab.

King Hussein of Jordan is an Arab.

Omar Alghabra, MP, is a descendant of Arabs

Wajid Khan, MP, a descendant of Arabs

Rahim Jaffer, MP, a descendant of Arabs

General John Abizaid is a descendant of Arabs

John E. Sununu

Doug Flutie

Bobby Rahal

Ralph Nader

John Mack

Paul Anka

Jamie Farr

Marlo Thomas

Tony Shalhoub,

Racism makes them all deserve bombs .

How dumb is that?

How moral?

How despicable to condemn poor Mr. Monk to a violent end for the one thing he really had no choice and no control over: his birth parentage. No wonder the guy is a mental wreck! To paraphrase Johnny Fever, "When the racists are all out to bomb you, paranoia only makes good sense."

In replying will those of you who are too distracted to follow my posting style please start a new topic specific to your criticism of me? It is hard enough to follow one issue per topic without being called upon to answer to those of you who find me sophomoric, an unskilled user of quotes, a poster of garbage, a liar, a cheat, a cesspool of evil intent. Don't insist on cluttering this issue with your venting. I guess you know who you are.

Thank you for your consideration.

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What's racist about bombing Arabs if they are our enemy? They do it to Jews all the time. You lefties are so obsessd with PC you can't seem to get the "nuance" (sic).

That wasn't what you were on about. You explicitly target ed Arab states becaus eof thie rtreatment of women, even though women are treated like shit in far too many societies. But you didn't say India. You didn't say Africa. You didn't even say "Islamic". You said "Arabs" (which, incidentally, would have excluded Iran and the Taliban).

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What's racist about bombing Arabs if they are our enemy?

Complete the deduction:

Axiom (A) Arabs are our enemy.

Axiom (B)It is correct to bomb our enemies.

Determine the corollary for each instance in the list below.

Meh. This is straight out of a high school or early college course based on Plato. Again you assume the populace is made up of stupid people who can't begin to understand the complexities of life or logical analyses. Your arguments are essentially that while you understand, of course, the population is too dumb. This would be more convincing if your posts had demonstrated more than a simplistic view on life, of course, and if they didn't read like they were coming from a hysterical reactionary.

Racism makes them all deserve bombs .

How dumb is that?

How dumb is not understanding the difference between racism - which is the belief in racial superiority due to genetic advantage - and bias or prejudice based on dislike of known cultural ore religious traits.

Ie, Muslims are not a race.

In replying will those of you who are too distracted to follow my posting style please start a new topic specific to your criticism of me? It is hard enough to follow one issue per topic

Continuing confessions of how complex things confuse you are not liable to lend credence to your great philosophies, oh Socrates.

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