Is Canada Anti-Semitic?

[betsy]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

[Who's Doing What?]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified?

???????

Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

[jbg]

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified? Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

If countries such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which at the time of WW II had plenty of space, (and many of which, to this day, are seeking unskilled immigrants who arrive seething with hatred for their host countries), couldn't take more than a token number of Jews, where else? Maybe your idea would have been to convert Auschwitz, Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen, Thierenstadt (sp), Dachau and similar facilities to some sort of cell-block housing where they could exist permanently on the UN's teat. Maybe they could have gained your sympathy by sending their children out as exploding packages of death, and saying that was needed for the "cause". Or maybe your idea would have been for those institutions to continue their mission of processing Jews.

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

Oh really? I would love to try going to Riyahd or Mecca and uttering "Sch'ma Yisrael Adonoi Elohenu..." in the public square. Maybe I'd go out of my head for my pains.

Why does the world seem to support such causes as creating an "independent" Bangladesh (I happen to have supported that by the way) and have no room for a Jewish state?

[Who's Doing What?]

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified? Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

If countries such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which at the time of WW II had plenty of space, (and many of which, to this day, are seeking unskilled immigrants who arrive seething with hatred for their host countries), couldn't take more than a token number of Jews, where else? Maybe your idea would have been to convert Auschwitz, Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen, Thierenstadt (sp), Dachau and similar facilities to some sort of cell-block housing where they could exist permanently on the UN's teat. Maybe they could have gained your sympathy by sending their children out as exploding packages of death, and saying that was needed for the "cause". Or maybe your idea would have been for those institutions to continue their mission of processing Jews.

Where the h*ll did that come from?

Nice to see people still like to completely misrepresent what others post.

This is disgusting. Just where did you get the idea I was suggesting such things.

Admin: What is up with this? This is a complete misrepresentation of my post. It is beyond sickening. The idea of re-opening the death camps is abhorant. Yet this poster is suggesting I am proposing exactly that. What am I going to be accused of being next? A war criminal?

Well there's one person for the ignore list. Did it even take ten posts?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

Oh really? I would love to try going to Riyahd or Mecca and uttering "Sch'ma Yisrael Adonoi Elohenu..." in the public square. Maybe I'd go out of my head for my pains.

Why does the world seem to support such causes as creating an "independent" Bangladesh (I happen to have supported that by the way) and have no room for a Jewish state?

I have no opposition to a Jewish state, at all. I do think the choice of LOCATION for the Jewish state was about as idiotic a decision that was ever made in the 20th century.

[betsy]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified?

???????

Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

I don't want to talk about who and what land belongs to where or whom. I am wondering about the sentiments of Canadians as a whole.

The past cancellation of a prominent Jewish speaker to a university or college somewhere in Canada (sorry, can't remember the details now)....cancelled, due to protests from some other groups.

And just reading and listening to the media lately. There seems to be a biased-ness in their reporting.

Occasional vandalisations of Jewsih synagogues has been treated lightly. There's no display of outrage among the media...or outpourings of concern that try to garner sympathy for a particular group that is targetted by hate-crimes. Nothing like the coverage given to the Muslims' concern that they become targets anytime some terrorists kill and maim innocent civilians in the name of Allah.

And the mid-east crisis now.

Lebanese casualties are grieved upon daily.....but casualties among the Jews are all but ignored. Like as if casualties among civilians are not the same...no matter what race or sides.

Our major political parties had clearly taken sides....although they try to appear neutral (for the sake of votes I imagine).

The reason and root cause of the sudden eruption and escalation of this war is being ignored....both by the media and the political parties in this country! Either that ...or they don't have a sense of wrongness at all.

There is nothing wrong about wanting to become neutral. But there is something definitely wrong when we knowingly accept an abhorrent act and throw away our sense of justice in the process.

[sharkman]

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified? Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

If countries such as the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, which at the time of WW II had plenty of space, (and many of which, to this day, are seeking unskilled immigrants who arrive seething with hatred for their host countries), couldn't take more than a token number of Jews, where else? Maybe your idea would have been to convert Auschwitz, Treblinka, Bergen-Belsen, Thierenstadt (sp), Dachau and similar facilities to some sort of cell-block housing where they could exist permanently on the UN's teat. Maybe they could have gained your sympathy by sending their children out as exploding packages of death, and saying that was needed for the "cause". Or maybe your idea would have been for those institutions to continue their mission of processing Jews.

Where the h*ll did that come from?

Nice to see people still like to completely misrepresent what others post.

This is disgusting. Just where did you get the idea I was suggesting such things.

Admin: What is up with this? This is a complete misrepresentation of my post. It is beyond sickening. The idea of re-opening the death camps is abhorant. Yet this poster is suggesting I am proposing exactly that. What am I going to be accused of being next? A war criminal?

Well there's one person for the ignore list. Did it even take ten posts?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

Oh really? I would love to try going to Riyahd or Mecca and uttering "Sch'ma Yisrael Adonoi Elohenu..." in the public square. Maybe I'd go out of my head for my pains.

Why does the world seem to support such causes as creating an "independent" Bangladesh (I happen to have supported that by the way) and have no room for a Jewish state?

I have no opposition to a Jewish state, at all. I do think the choice of LOCATION for the Jewish state was about as idiotic a decision that was ever made in the 20th century.

Uh, no it not a bad location. A people's homeland is their homeland and that's been the Jewish homeland for 1000's of years. The whole 'middle east' problem of Palestine has been engineered by evil leaders who used Palestinians and their resulting deaths for political gain at the UN. If you want to be outraged at something, there it is.

[jdobbin]

The past cancellation of a prominent Jewish speaker to a university or college somewhere in Canada (sorry, can't remember the details now)....cancelled, due to protests from some other groups.

And just reading and listening to the media lately. There seems to be a biased-ness in their reporting.

Occasional vandalisations of Jewsih synagogues has been treated lightly. There's no display of outrage among the media...or outpourings of concern that try to garner sympathy for a particular group that is targetted by hate-crimes. Nothing like the coverage given to the Muslims' concern that they become targets anytime some terrorists kill and maim innocent civilians in the name of Allah.

And the mid-east crisis now.

Lebanese casualties are grieved upon daily.....but casualties among the Jews are all but ignored. Like as if casualties among civilians are not the same...no matter what race or sides.

Our major political parties had clearly taken sides....although they try to appear neutral (for the sake of votes I imagine).

The reason and root cause of the sudden eruption and escalation of this war is being ignored....both by the media and the political parties in this country! Either that ...or they don't have a sense of wrongness at all.

There is nothing wrong about wanting to become neutral. But there is something definitely wrong when we knowingly accept an abhorrent act and throw away our sense of justice in the process.

Universities have been cancelling controversial speakers from a few places due to security problems on campus. I don't think it is has been anti-Muslim or anti-Jewish for the most part but then I'm not behind closed doors when these decisions are made.

As far as showing what is happening in Israel, I don't have a stopwatch but CBC and CTV were both showing the rain of rockets falling on Israel.

Canadians are split on what is going on because it seems that neither side will be in the right once this over if it is ever over.

[ponyboy]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

The short answer yes.However lets not stop with the jews,lets also look at First Nations and blacks as well,this country has been living the, we are not racist lie for far,far too long.just look at who they elected Federally now,a bush backing,bible thumping red neck....Harper.I wish these so called Christians would practise what they preach.Their way is not the only way,but try and tell them that.

[Who's Doing What?]

Uh, no it not a bad location. A people's homeland is their homeland and that's been the Jewish homeland for 1000's of years. The whole 'middle east' problem of Palestine has been engineered by evil leaders who used Palestinians and their resulting deaths for political gain at the UN. If you want to be outraged at something, there it is.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region?

I don't recall the Crusades being about getting the Holy land back from the Jews.

Sorry but they were too gone, for too long. That is like my family laying claim to some patch of land in Scotland, that none of my relatives has seen in almost 300 yrs.

The land was already someone elses. How would you like it if the previous owners of your house or the lot it sits on, came back and kicked you out.

[Argus]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

The short answer yes.However lets not stop with the jews,lets also look at First Nations and blacks as well,this country has been living the, we are not racist lie for far,far too long.just look at who they elected Federally now,a bush backing,bible thumping red neck....Harper.I wish these so called Christians would practise what they preach.Their way is not the only way,but try and tell them that.

Perhaps the OP should have asked if Canada had an ignorance problem.

[Argus]

Uh, no it not a bad location. A people's homeland is their homeland and that's been the Jewish homeland for 1000's of years. The whole 'middle east' problem of Palestine has been engineered by evil leaders who used Palestinians and their resulting deaths for political gain at the UN. If you want to be outraged at something, there it is.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region?

Whoever put the Italians in Europe!? I mean, when was the last time they were the majority in the region!?

What about those Japanese? Why on Earth are they there!? They're not the majority in the region!?

What kind of stupity puts a nation down somewhere they aren't the majority!? I don't understand! My head hurts!

[Who's Doing What?]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified?

???????

Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

I don't want to talk about who and what land belongs to where or whom. I am wondering about the sentiments of Canadians as a whole.

The past cancellation of a prominent Jewish speaker to a university or college somewhere in Canada (sorry, can't remember the details now)....cancelled, due to protests from some other groups.

And just reading and listening to the media lately. There seems to be a biased-ness in their reporting.

Occasional vandalisations of Jewsih synagogues has been treated lightly. There's no display of outrage among the media...or outpourings of concern that try to garner sympathy for a particular group that is targetted by hate-crimes. Nothing like the coverage given to the Muslims' concern that they become targets anytime some terrorists kill and maim innocent civilians in the name of Allah.

And the mid-east crisis now.

Lebanese casualties are grieved upon daily.....but casualties among the Jews are all but ignored. Like as if casualties among civilians are not the same...no matter what race or sides.

Our major political parties had clearly taken sides....although they try to appear neutral (for the sake of votes I imagine).

The reason and root cause of the sudden eruption and escalation of this war is being ignored....both by the media and the political parties in this country! Either that ...or they don't have a sense of wrongness at all.

There is nothing wrong about wanting to become neutral. But there is something definitely wrong when we knowingly accept an abhorrent act and throw away our sense of justice in the process.

There was/is a radical terrorist group in control of the southern half of the country on their border. I would attack too.

I don't care what religion someone is. As far as I'm concerned they are all equally a waste of time. I'm more concerned with ending terrorism.

[BubberMiley]

Italians are the majority in Italy; Japanese are the majority in Japan. This makes your head hurt?

[Who's Doing What?]

Uh, no it not a bad location. A people's homeland is their homeland and that's been the Jewish homeland for 1000's of years. The whole 'middle east' problem of Palestine has been engineered by evil leaders who used Palestinians and their resulting deaths for political gain at the UN. If you want to be outraged at something, there it is.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region?

Whoever put the Italians in Europe!? I mean, when was the last time they were the majority in the region!?

What about those Japanese? Why on Earth are they there!? They're not the majority in the region!?

What kind of stupity puts a nation down somewhere they aren't the majority!? I don't understand! My head hurts!

What garbage. If you can't be realistic don't post.

Seriously you are way off. Do you always just take something out of context and write a bunch of garbage about it?

That wasn't their land. If there had been more Jews than Palestinians then I could see them laying claim to it. But when it was full of palestinians, for hundreds of years, that makes it palestinian land.

It is too late to change it now, and we have to deal with what it is, but what was wrong with Wyoming? The Dakotas? Somewhere in Eastern Europe? Western Europe? Western or Northern Canada? South america?

They Jewish state could have been made anywhere.

Try to not be so rediculous.

[Argus]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

I think most of what passes for anti-semitism is coming from the Left, and is out of ignorance (unsurprisingly). The left has a habit of moralizing on politics. If you don't agree with their political viewpoint, then you're immoral. The Left hates Israel. Jews support Israel. Ergo, Jews are immoral. They don't think about it this way - most not being capable of anything approaching self analyses, but that's about the face of it.

As for their position on Israel. Well, the Israelis have tanks and fighters and stuff. And they're winning. Therefore, they're the bad guys. Again, it's not complicated, but then, the mushy-headed bleeding heart liberal left are a fairly simple bunch.

[Rue]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified?

???????

Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

Interesting how Besty asks a question about anti-semitism, and you launch into an attack on Israel. Once again we see a classic example of how the two always seem to be used inter-changeably. That said, your comments about "what kin dof bass-ackwards thinking put's one religious groupsmackl in the middle of another religion's holiest land?" is meant to mean what?

Your comments seem to suggest "Jews" should not have "placed" their country in another religious country.

See it is precisely that kind of simplistic, black and white comment that makes me wonder, why? Why do you not before you make such comments, try learn the origins of Judaism and its relation to its connection to Israel and then examine the Muslim religion and its concept when it comes to land?

If you bothered you wouldn't ask such questions and you wouldn't try simplify the conflict in such a simplistic manner.

For the record, long before your analysis and the creation of the State of Israel in 1949, there was this place called Egypt and it had slaves. These slaves led by a guy called Moses, led them on a revolt and then out and to the land that is now referred to as Israel. This guy Moses, (oh yes its true, I watched it on t.v. with Charelton Heston) went up into the mountains and came down with these ten commandments and started a religion where he told people they shouldn't kill each other, commit incest, adultery etc. Yah call him a stickler for rules. In any event as part of this relgion he told the slaves that GOD promised these slaves that they could live in Israel. So in this religion is the precept that GOD promised the land to the Jews and so they have a spiritual link to it. Their very existence is dependent on being connected to that soil.

When the Jews got there m there were Phillistines and Cannanites, and some other assorted tribes but these tribes would not have been Muslim or Arab. Follow me so far?

The Jews fought many people and settled there. They lived there. People came people went for centuries.

Then this guy called Abraham has two children....two sons. See Abe's first wife had problems having a child so Abe gets a mistress and has a son out of wedlock because he's convinced God wants him to have a son.

Then after he has his bastard child, his wife is pregnant. So guess what? He sends his bastard son off into the desert with that son's mother and that son sent off into the desert is the origins of the people who become Muslims.

So when the Muslims develop and begin their religion, Jews have been in Israel for quite some time and guess what these people called Christians as well.

The Romans, Greeks, Turks, come into Israel but guess what, Jews still continue to live there even though many are displaced and move into the rest of the Muslim world or Europe.

For your information, in the Muslim conception of the universe, state and religion are not seperate so this notion they have a country in Palestine is pure and utter b.s. Palestine is a no man's land with no soevriegn state-it is a territory administered by Romans, Greeks, Turks, then British.

The notion of Jews creating a soveriegn state for Jews in Palestine comes from three sources; i-the Bible and their belief of being spiritually connected to the soil, ii-the fact that Jews are native to this land and have always been native to this land; iii-that as a result of 3,500 years of continuous persecution in Europe and living as second class citizens in a system called dhimmitude in the Muslim world, they wanted to live free from other people's persecution.

The British suggest the Jews in Palestine be given a small enclave and the Arabs in Palestine given a small enclave. For the British, this would mean two people who both feel they have rights to the land continously at each other's throats and then of course needing the British to rule them. Ah divide and conquer, works every time.

Meanwhile next door, France conveniently creates countries like Syria and Lebanon while Britain slices up countries into neat little boxes like Iraq and Jordan.

When Israel is ready to accept its tiny little enclave, the Arab League tells the United Nations and Britain to stuff it and attacks with the express purpose of killing and/or expelling all the Jews.

The problem is those Jews just don't die and they fight and in 1949 Israel declares itself a nation,. Its border establoished in 1949 is what is called a defacto border. It was defined by war not by treaty. de facto borders become considered legal if there is a considerable period of time in which they are not challenged.

The point is those 1949 borders were always challenged by the Arab League and to this day the majority of the Arab League is still in the state of War with Israel since 1949. Egypt is the only country that has officially engaged in a peace treaty. The West Bank which was seized by Jordan in 1949 but technically that West Bank like all of Palestine was never really defined.

Now all this talk of Israel illegally settling or deciding to settle in a Muslim country is pure p.s. Palestine was never a country, it was an undefined land.

To this day these pre-1967 Israel borders talked about were never ever recognized by the Arab world and still are not. They are referred to by Arab countries as where Israel should pull back to, but in the same breath these same Arab countries when they tell the Western world Israel should go back to those broders, tell their citizens through their media, that they want all Jews gone.

To date no Arab country with the exception of Egypt has ever put in writing, that it defends Israel's right to exist.

So Israel is not some isolated incident and the idea of some unreaosnable Jews who deliberately set out to aggravate Muslims. It is quite frankly a return of aboriginal peoples to where they came from. And for you to ask why don't they go some where else, reflects your complete and utter ignorance of why they would go back to this tiny piece of sand. They go back because it is tied to their spiritual destiny. Yes they also go back because the holocaust required systemic and extensive networks of rail-road trains and collaboration of many Europeans and for them after World War Two, remaining in Europe was not an option.

For you as a Christian who takes it for granted your country is Christian and the religion and institutions reflect that bias, you can not understand what it means not to be allowed to own land, or engage in certain professions or businesses or to constantly live with people slaughtering you every Christmas and Easter. You don't understand what it is like to listen as every year you are told you are responsible for the murder of Christ and until you convert to Christianity, you deserve everything you get.

You do not understand what it is like to live in a Muslim country and be told you muststay in a ghetto and not interact with Muslims and listen as Mullahs and Muftis state that the Koran says that Jews are liars and infidels and made up false stories and that Islam is the only true story.

Now I doubt you have read a word I have said, but once and for all, I am so tired of people asking questions reflecting a complete lack of ignorance of why Jews are in Israel and since you won't bother to read up on it, maybe my writing it in these simple terms will help you.

And try understand this...for Muslims they see their world flowing from Morrocco to Pakistan and on and on. They don't think of borders. This is a Western concept imported by the French and British to carve out areas of economic influence. True Muslims see themselves as simply united and these borders are absurdities. That is why they have a major problem with Israel. It is to them simply something sliced out of their kingdom and they feel Jews are only there because of something that happened in Europe which is not their responsibility. However that is not entirely accurate because these same Muslims do not want Christians, Hindus, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians and many other religions in their midst either.

Today's Muslim countries are not exactly abouyt living in tolerance. When they are not at war with non Muslims they are at war with each other's different sects.

[Argus]

Uh, no it not a bad location. A people's homeland is their homeland and that's been the Jewish homeland for 1000's of years. The whole 'middle east' problem of Palestine has been engineered by evil leaders who used Palestinians and their resulting deaths for political gain at the UN. If you want to be outraged at something, there it is.

Not a bad location? When was the last time they were the majority in the region?

Whoever put the Italians in Europe!? I mean, when was the last time they were the majority in the region!?

What about those Japanese? Why on Earth are they there!? They're not the majority in the region!?

What kind of stupity puts a nation down somewhere they aren't the majority!? I don't understand! My head hurts!

What garbage. If you can't be realistic don't post.

Hey, it ain't stopping you.

Seriously you are way off. Do you always just take something out of context and write a bunch of garbage about it?

Do you? At least mine wasn't serious.

That wasn't their land. If there had been more Jews than Palestinians then I could see them laying claim to it.

The population of the area set aside for Israel was 66% Jewish at the time of the United Nations decision.

But when it was full of palestinians, for hundreds of years, that makes it palestinian land.

I hate to break it to you, but Palestinians are not a race, nor are they a religion. There are Palestinian Jews, or were, Palestinian Christians, and various shades of Palestinian Muslims.

[Argus]

Italians are the majority in Italy; Japanese are the majority in Japan. This makes your head hurt?

He was talking about the "region".

[Who's Doing What?]

...

[Who's Doing What?]

I'm not referring to only some minority groups...but Canada as a whole.

Not the blatant hate-spewing anti-semites....but the kinds that SILENTLY agrees the Jews are getting only what "they justly deserve."

Could you clarify?

Getting what they deserved as in:

What kind of bass-ackwards thinking put's one religous group smack dab in the middle of another religion's holiest land? And the resulting violence since then is justified?

???????

Why the displaced Jewish people after WWII couldn't have been given a chunk of land anywhere else, is a very good question?

oh and I don't subcribe to the "It's their holy land" argument. Plenty of Jewish peole are worshipping just fine all over the world.

Interesting how Besty asks a question about anti-semitism, and you launch into an attack on Israel. Once again we see a classic example of how the two always seem to be used inter-changeably. That said, your comments about "what kin dof bass-ackwards thinking put's one religious groupsmackl in the middle of another religion's holiest land?" is meant to mean what?

Your comments seem to suggest "Jews" should not have "placed" their country in another religious country.

See it is precisely that kind of simplistic, black and white comment that makes me wonder, why? Why do you not before you make such comments, try learn the origins of Judaism and its relation to its connection to Israel and then examine the Muslim religion and its concept when it comes to land?

If you bothered you wouldn't ask such questions and you wouldn't try simplify the conflict in such a simplistic manner.

For the record, long before your analysis and the creation of the State of Israel in 1949, there was this place called Egypt and it had slaves. These slaves led by a guy called Moses, led them on a revolt and then out and to the land that is now referred to as Israel. This guy Moses, (oh yes its true, I watched it on t.v. with Charelton Heston) went up into the mountains and came down with these ten commandments and started a religion where he told people they shouldn't kill each other, commit incest, adultery etc. Yah call him a stickler for rules. In any event as part of this relgion he told the slaves that GOD promised these slaves that they could live in Israel. So in this religion is the precept that GOD promised the land to the Jews and so they have a spiritual link to it. Their very existence is dependent on being connected to that soil.

When the Jews got there m there were Phillistines and Cannanites, and some other assorted tribes but these tribes would not have been Muslim or Arab. Follow me so far?

The Jews fought many people and settled there. They lived there. People came people went for centuries.

Then this guy called Abraham has two children....two sons. See Abe's first wife had problems having a child so Abe gets a mistress and has a son out of wedlock because he's convinced God wants him to have a son.

Then after he has his bastard child, his wife is pregnant. So guess what? He sends his bastard son off into the desert with that son's mother and that son sent off into the desert is the origins of the people who become Muslims.

So when the Muslims develop and begin their religion, Jews have been in Israel for quite some time and guess what these people called Christians as well.

The Romans, Greeks, Turks, come into Israel but guess what, Jews still continue to live there even though many are displaced and move into the rest of the Muslim world or Europe.

For your information, in the Muslim conception of the universe, state and religion are not seperate so this notion they have a country in Palestine is pure and utter b.s. Palestine is a no man's land with no soevriegn state-it is a territory administered by Romans, Greeks, Turks, then British.

The notion of Jews creating a soveriegn state for Jews in Palestine comes from three sources; i-the Bible and their belief of being spiritually connected to the soil, ii-the fact that Jews are native to this land and have always been native to this land; iii-that as a result of 3,500 years of continuous persecution in Europe and living as second class citizens in a system called dhimmitude in the Muslim world, they wanted to live free from other people's persecution.

The British suggest the Jews in Palestine be given a small enclave and the Arabs in Palestine given a small enclave. For the British, this would mean two people who both feel they have rights to the land continously at each other's throats and then of course needing the British to rule them. Ah divide and conquer, works every time.

Meanwhile next door, France conveniently creates countries like Syria and Lebanon while Britain slices up countries into neat little boxes like Iraq and Jordan.

When Israel is ready to accept its tiny little enclave, the Arab League tells the United Nations and Britain to stuff it and attacks with the express purpose of killing and/or expelling all the Jews.

The problem is those Jews just don't die and they fight and in 1949 Israel declares itself a nation,. Its border establoished in 1949 is what is called a defacto border. It was defined by war not by treaty. de facto borders become considered legal if there is a considerable period of time in which they are not challenged.

The point is those 1949 borders were always challenged by the Arab League and to this day the majority of the Arab League is still in the state of War with Israel since 1949. Egypt is the only country that has officially engaged in a peace treaty. The West Bank which was seized by Jordan in 1949 but technically that West Bank like all of Palestine was never really defined.

Now all this talk of Israel illegally settling or deciding to settle in a Muslim country is pure p.s. Palestine was never a country, it was an undefined land.

To this day these pre-1967 Israel borders talked about were never ever recognized by the Arab world and still are not. They are referred to by Arab countries as where Israel should pull back to, but in the same breath these same Arab countries when they tell the Western world Israel should go back to those broders, tell their citizens through their media, that they want all Jews gone.

To date no Arab country with the exception of Egypt has ever put in writing, that it defends Israel's right to exist.

So Israel is not some isolated incident and the idea of some unreaosnable Jews who deliberately set out to aggravate Muslims. It is quite frankly a return of aboriginal peoples to where they came from. And for you to ask why don't they go some where else, reflects your complete and utter ignorance of why they would go back to this tiny piece of sand. They go back because it is tied to their spiritual destiny. Yes they also go back because the holocaust required systemic and extensive networks of rail-road trains and collaboration of many Europeans and for them after World War Two, remaining in Europe was not an option.

For you as a Christian who takes it for granted your country is Christian and the religion and institutions reflect that bias, you can not understand what it means not to be allowed to own land, or engage in certain professions or businesses or to constantly live with people slaughtering you every Christmas and Easter. You don't understand what it is like to listen as every year you are told you are responsible for the murder of Christ and until you convert to Christianity, you deserve everything you get.

You do not understand what it is like to live in a Muslim country and be told you muststay in a ghetto and not interact with Muslims and listen as Mullahs and Muftis state that the Koran says that Jews are liars and infidels and made up false stories and that Islam is the only true story.

Now I doubt you have read a word I have said, but once and for all, I am so tired of people asking questions reflecting a complete lack of ignorance of why Jews are in Israel and since you won't bother to read up on it, maybe my writing it in these simple terms will help you.

And try understand this...for Muslims they see their world flowing from Morrocco to Pakistan and on and on. They don't think of borders. This is a Western concept imported by the French and British to carve out areas of economic influence. True Muslims see themselves as simply united and these borders are absurdities. That is why they have a major problem with Israel. It is to them simply something sliced out of their kingdom and they feel Jews are only there because of something that happened in Europe which is not their responsibility. However that is not entirely accurate because these same Muslims do not want Christians, Hindus, Bahaiis, Zoroastrians and many other religions in their midst either.

Today's Muslim countries are not exactly abouyt living in tolerance. When they are not at war with non Muslims they are at war with each other's different sects.

If you think that was an attack on Isreal then you need some help.

Does anybody on this forum ever actually understand what people post , or do they all just spout off with a bunch of non-sensical trash, while completely ingoring the context of what was said.

This is just pathetic. Truly sad.

[Who's Doing What?]

So the land which became Isreal was 66% Jewish in 1948?

Really?

The numbers from 1946 are totally different.

Palestinian Residents of Palestine - 1,339,773

Jewish Residents of Palestine - 602,586

Jewish residents only owned 10.6% of the privately held land.

British figures indicate only 23% of all arable land in palestine was owned by Jewish residents .

link

[Argus]

So the land which became Isreal was 66% Jewish in 1948?

Really?

The numbers from 1946 are totally different.

Palestinian Residents of Palestine - 1,339,773

Jewish Residents of Palestine - 602,586

Yes, the total population was majority Muslim. However, you have to remember that was massive immigration of Jews as the UN began to seriously debate a Jewish state, and that harrassment and pograms against Jews in the surrounding Arab nations, particularly Egypt, Syria and Iraq, caused hundreds of thousands of Arab Jews to flee to Israel. This intensified after the 48 war, of course. About 600,000 Jews fled Arab lands, mostly with nothing but the clothes on their backs, and about 500,000 Arabs fled Israel in the same circumstances. All the Jews were absorbed and given citizenship by Israel. The Arabs are still sitting in squalid refugee camps, the Arab nations refusing to take them in. Even the third generation of "refugees" born within Arab states are not considered citizens, though they are linguisitically, culturally, religiously, ethnically and historically identical to the citizens of those states.

Jewish residents only owned 10.6% of the privately held land.

True enough, but you fail to take into account that half the land was owned by the government, and that the British had made it very difficult for Jews to buy land back in 1939, so that most Jews lived on land leased from Arab owners.

British figures indicate only 23% of all arable land in palestine was owned by Jewish residents .

See above. The Jews lived on the land, and worked it, but were not allowed to own it.

[watching&waiting]

It took me some time but I got the population for Israel for 1995. It is funny that such a simple inquirey brings you so many other answers by seldom just a plain population number. I got this number here:

http://www.worldinfozone.com/country.php?country=Israel

The pop was approx 6.4 million. 80% jewish the rest arabic. This would mean that today in its rough form, there are 4 jews to every arab in the country of Israel.

I do not though see where this is addressing the thread subject of whether Canada as a whole is anti-semetic? Which I personally do not think so. We may at some times be against Israel for its actions etc. but I do not believe that we are against the jews as a race. I can say though that many jewish people I have seen posting do have a thin skin, yet every jewish person I have met has had a thick skin about being jewish and in some cases they themselves have been more anti jew then I ever have been. So I guess it is just the same as you see in life, some will pick a stance and raise it high, but seldom is the levelk raise to, the true indicator of the feeling held by the majority.

[jdobbin]

It took me some time but I got the population for Israel for 1995. It is funny that such a simple inquirey brings you so many other answers by seldom just a plain population number. I got this number here:

http://www.worldinfozone.com/country.php?country=Israel

The pop was approx 6.4 million. 80% jewish the rest arabic. This would mean that today in its rough form, there are 4 jews to every arab in the country of Israel.

I do not though see where this is addressing the thread subject of whether Canada as a whole is anti-semetic? Which I personally do not think so. We may at some times be against Israel for its actions etc. but I do not believe that we are against the jews as a race. I can say though that many jewish people I have seen posting do have a thin skin, yet every jewish person I have met has had a thick skin about being jewish and in some cases they themselves have been more anti jew then I ever have been. So I guess it is just the same as you see in life, some will pick a stance and raise it high, but seldom is the levelk raise to, the true indicator of the feeling held by the majority.

Canada held opposing views to Israel over the Suez Canal. In fact, we went against the grain there and actually won a Nobel Peace prize for it. You don't have to oppose some Isreali policies and be labelled anti-Semitic.

[gerryhatrick]

The past cancellation of a prominent Jewish speaker to a university or college somewhere in Canada (sorry, can't remember the details now)....cancelled, due to protests from some other groups.

If you can't remember the details then why would you use it as a basis for your sweeping accusation (and don't tell me "I'm just asking a question" because obviously you think the answer is yes)

And just reading and listening to the media lately. There seems to be a biased-ness in their reporting.

Occasional vandalisations of Jewsih synagogues has been treated lightly. There's no display of outrage among the media...or outpourings of concern that try to garner sympathy for a particular group that is targetted by hate-crimes. Nothing like the coverage given to the Muslims' concern that they become targets anytime some terrorists kill and maim innocent civilians in the name of Allah.

I think you're imagining things. I certainly see equal treatment for attacks against Jews and Muslims. I see the concerns of Jewish groups over anti-Semitism in the media just as much as I see concern from Muslim groups.

Lebanese casualties are grieved upon daily.....but casualties among the Jews are all but ignored. Like as if casualties among civilians are not the same...no matter what race or sides.

This is absolute nonsense. We see more about the destruction and death in Lebanon simply because there is much more of it. I have seen many pictures of grieving Israelis and funerals, have you not?

I also hear a running count of the "thousands" of rockets being fired at Israel every day, do you notice that?

It really sounds amazing. No information on how many missiles and shells Israel is dropping on Lebanon, for some reason.

The reason and root cause of the sudden eruption and escalation of this war is being ignored....both by the media and the political parties in this country!

How so? It's been repeated and said over and over by the editorial boards in both my local papers that Hezbollah is to blame and started this with it's kidnappings and killings.

I really think you're not paying attention.

And your supposition that Canadians are anti-Semite is baseless.

I have a question for you:

I believe Israel has grossly over-reacted. They have experienced some kind of national brain-cramp and are ensuring a future of even more violence by their actions in Lebanon right now.

Am I an anti-Semite?