Calgary's Overcrowded Hospitals

[jdobbin]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/200...iscarriage.html

I heard that a new children's hospital has gone up. Is it that Calgary is growing too fast or that people are not being directed elsewhere?

[geoffrey]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/200...iscarriage.html

I heard that a new children's hospital has gone up. Is it that Calgary is growing too fast or that people are not being directed elsewhere?

The new Alberta Children's Hospital isn't quite operation as of yet, but it's getting there. There is another big hospital centre being built in the far south, should make a big difference but it takes time.

Calgary is the fastest growing urban centre in North America, so I'd likely say that contributes to the problems. We can't build hospitals or schools fast enough.

And good luck finding construction workers when base labour is at $20-25/hr right now. We can't afford the construction costs besides flying in workers from Quebec and the Maritimes, which isn't cheap either. There isn't unemployed people in Calgary right now that can work, how can we increase our building?

Right now it's faster to just drive out to Black Diamond or High River (both 30 mins from my house) and wait 10-15 minutes in a rural hospital then to go to a hospital in Calgary which can take 5 hours even in urgent emergency situations (I waited 4 hours to see a doc with a flesh eating infection in my leg, for example, should have gone to High River).

[jdobbin]

The new Alberta Children's Hospital isn't quite operation as of yet, but it's getting there. There is another big hospital centre being built in the far south, should make a big difference but it takes time.

Calgary is the fastest growing urban centre in North America, so I'd likely say that contributes to the problems. We can't build hospitals or schools fast enough.

Atre Calgary people getting upset with the situtation? Wasn't there a hospital blown up there as part of cutbacks a few years ago?

[geoffrey]

The new Alberta Children's Hospital isn't quite operation as of yet, but it's getting there. There is another big hospital centre being built in the far south, should make a big difference but it takes time.

Calgary is the fastest growing urban centre in North America, so I'd likely say that contributes to the problems. We can't build hospitals or schools fast enough.

Atre Calgary people getting upset with the situtation? Wasn't there a hospital blown up there as part of cutbacks a few years ago?

There were a couple shut down actually, but it was really poorly organized, we had 3 in the downtown area, 4 if you count Foothills which is only 10 mins away. The problem is, they didn't replace them right away with hospitals in the suburbs that need them... until the South Calgary Hospital anyways.

I'd say hospitals is pretty high on the list of Calgarian concerns right now, but like I said, there are ways around it by going to surrounding communities. The city has also tried fixing the problem by building 'urgent care centres', which really are just glorifed extended hours doctors' offices.

The even bigger problem with not having enough beds is that our paramedics need to wait with the patients until they are admitted. This ties up the ambulances. Recently a family member of mine had a heart attack and the ambulance took 45 minutes to come because their were none available. Thank goodness for fire fighters. This is probably the more critical issue... they've started posting paramedics in the hospitals to take over and let the ambulance medics back onto the streets ASAP.

There have been solutions, but still alot of problems. Alberta though spends more per capita on health than any other province, so it's not a money issue. It's a poor planning issue. A solid theme in Calgary and Alberta politics.

[WillyNilly]

If memory serves me right, one of the first things Klein did, when elected, was to cut back on "medical expenses" in Alberta. There was at the time, a hue and cry over no longer covering injectible medications and pre-natal care I believe, two things that come to mind.

That said, this crisis is NOT limited to Alberta, half a dozen people in Vancouver have died in the ER waiting rooms, and its happening ALL OVER Canada.

The waiting lists for most Specialists is close to two years long, no matter what the Government claims it is.

The BC interior Trauma Centre was running on FIVE beds last week, ER was filled with people waiting to be moved onto wards.

Patients often wait seven hours or more to see an ER doctor. Some surgeries are being performed in ER because of the long wait for operating rooms.

People requiring "emergency" surgery are waiting for weeks on a "standy list" if they can "hang on" that long and be put on the list.

And yet our Government tells us "the Medical System is going fine", and lies about the waiting lists, the people dying, and how bad it really is. Its dangerous to live in Canada and need Medical Attention.

People I know in Saskatchewan are waiting years for surgery, with conditions that are completely disabling.

[jdobbin]

There were a couple shut down actually, but it was really poorly organized, we had 3 in the downtown area, 4 if you count Foothills which is only 10 mins away. The problem is, they didn't replace them right away with hospitals in the suburbs that need them... until the South Calgary Hospital anyways.

I'd say hospitals is pretty high on the list of Calgarian concerns right now, but like I said, there are ways around it by going to surrounding communities. The city has also tried fixing the problem by building 'urgent care centres', which really are just glorifed extended hours doctors' offices.

The even bigger problem with not having enough beds is that our paramedics need to wait with the patients until they are admitted. This ties up the ambulances. Recently a family member of mine had a heart attack and the ambulance took 45 minutes to come because their were none available. Thank goodness for fire fighters. This is probably the more critical issue... they've started posting paramedics in the hospitals to take over and let the ambulance medics back onto the streets ASAP.

There have been solutions, but still alot of problems. Alberta though spends more per capita on health than any other province, so it's not a money issue. It's a poor planning issue. A solid theme in Calgary and Alberta politics.

Hmm, so there may be a basis of truth that health authority has some incompetence preventing better service. Calgary has an increasing number of young people in it. Lots more children being born and there's no way there should that much travel time to hospitals or waiting in hospital lounges.

I had heard that some in Alberta say that the province never fully recovered from a combination of federal and provincial cutbacks. However, if money has been restored, planning resides with the provincial government is getting things right.

[jdobbin]

If memory serves me right, one of the first things Klein did, when elected, was to cut back on "medical expenses" in Alberta. There was at the time, a hue and cry over no longer covering injectible medications and pre-natal care I believe, two things that come to mind.

That said, this crisis is NOT limited to Alberta, half a dozen people in Vancouver have died in the ER waiting rooms, and its happening ALL OVER Canada.

The waiting lists for most Specialists is close to two years long, no matter what the Government claims it is.

People requiring "emergency" surgery are waiting for weeks on a "standy list" if they can "hang on" that long and be put on the list.

And yet our Government tells us "the Medical System is going fine", and lies about the waiting lists, the people dying, and how bad it really is. Its dangerous to live in Canada and need Medical Attention.

People I know in Saskatchewan are waiting years for surgery, with conditions that are completely disabling.

The problem in Manitoba is a shortage of doctors and nurse in summers. It means our E.R.s are understaffed.

[FTA Lawyer]

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/story/200...iscarriage.html

I heard that a new children's hospital has gone up. Is it that Calgary is growing too fast or that people are not being directed elsewhere?

Right now it's faster to just drive out to Black Diamond or High River (both 30 mins from my house) and wait 10-15 minutes in a rural hospital then to go to a hospital in Calgary which can take 5 hours even in urgent emergency situations (I waited 4 hours to see a doc with a flesh eating infection in my leg, for example, should have gone to High River).

Triage is a fact of life anytime you don't have a doctor and a nurse for every patient who comes through the door (i.e. always).

My last two trips to the ER in Calgary were decidedly different...one was about 6-7 hours waiting to see a doctor to get stitches for a cut on my head...the other was about 2 1/2 minutes to see a doctor when I came in by ambulance following a seizure.

The reason why people end up waiting 7 hours at the ER is almost always because their "emergency" is truly not that emergent (at least when compared to the other patients coming in). That may be hard to swallow, but its the way it is. At the time, you are worried about what COULD happen and what MIGHT be the cause of your symptoms, so to you, any waiting is unacceptable.

BUT...if I'm bleeding out from an internal injury to a vital organ and your sore leg has to wait...tough sh-t.

You say you waited 4 hours with a flesh-eating infection...but I take it you survived and you have not had any amputations? Sounds like an ER success story.

Sure, I'm on the bandwagon in support of better services, but I'm not convinced that the sickest patients aren't being seen first and the others left to wait with no ill effects other than enduring some additional pain. Yes, the odd situation happens from time to time which is tragic because someone was not assessed or treated appropriately, but in terms of percentage relative to the number of patients seen and treated as required?

As for your advice about going to High River just so you won't be inconvenienced...I wouldn't. Just ask Vince Motta's family what the fatality inquiry into his untimely death from a burst appendix found. He left 2 Calgary ERs becuase he wasn't happy with the wait and then went to High River later that same evening.

When his appendix burst in High River, and they were not equipped to handle the emergency surgery (not because of anyone's negligence...you just can't have a state-of the-art trauma facility in every rural hospital) they had to air-lift him back to Calgary...he died before he could get the attention he needed.

Had Motta been in a waiting room in one Calgary ER the entire time instead of going to a different ER (losing his continuity in triage) and then to a rural hospital (all with a view to finding a shorter lineup) arguably, he would have been seen when his condition worsened and not when his appendix burst...but even if it did burst, he would then be able to be instantly taken into surgery in one of the finest tertiary care centres in the country rather than wait in High-River for a futile helicopter ride.

Would he have lived? No one can say of course. But his chances would have been dramatically improved.

FTA

[jdobbin]

Had Motta been in a waiting room in one Calgary ER the entire time instead of going to a different ER (losing his continuity in triage) and then to a rural hospital (all with a view to finding a shorter lineup) arguably, he would have been seen when his condition worsened and not when his appendix burst...but even if it did burst, he would then be able to be instantly taken into surgery in one of the finest tertiary care centres in the country rather than wait in High-River for a futile helicopter ride.

There have been some experiments with Urgent Care centers across Canada. They have been good at streaming people away from emergency rooms to places where stitches or broken bones can be knitted. This is, granted, only a solution for an urban hospital.

Ultimately, hospitals that partner with a private clinic could offer a 24 hour walk-in services. A triage nurse could make the assessment at the door as always and stream people accordingly. Good for the public health system, good for the private practitioners.

[WillyNilly]

The system isnt getting better, and one of the problems is people dont have their own doctors. Low wages paid to Canadian doctors means they are heading south of the border in droves. Problems with the Government authorizing medications and treatments and sugeries in Canada means the doctors get fed up and are leaving, so are the nurses.

We have inadequate hosptials and facilities, when you have 15 people clogging up the ER waiting for room on the wards, in the interior, a TRAUMA CENTRE I might add, and the centre is left with 5 open beds, there is something REALLY wrong. The staff is there, but the beds arent so ER isnt working the way it is meant to.

Our pool of Specialists is drying up. GP's are having to do surgery in the ER.

People's lives are put on hold indefinitely while they wait for surgery for things like a dislocated shoulder, or a hip replacement, or an infection that is threatening their lives. People wait for cancer treatments.

My FIL had a cancerous brain tumour, there were two of them in the hospital, waiting to go to Vancouver for treatment. The doctor called in the family and said "Our problem is we have two emergencies, yours came in first so by rights he should go frist, HOWEVER he is 82 and the other is a very young mother with three children, who do you think should go to Vancouver first?" What could we say? What could we do?

My FIL died, still waiting, a month later. By then he didnt even know who his own wife or children were.

We shouldnt have to make these choices.

You read posts here about people returning to Canada for medical treatment, no one is that stupid who has lived overseas. They go to Europe or China or Japan. They DONT come back to Canada to wait and possibly die waiting.

I think the only people you see returning to Canada for treatment are people who cant afford to be treated in the US. And seniors who dont trust other countries.

The medical plan in Canada will pay for the "cost of treatment as covered IN CANADA" and not for the "REAL" costs elsewhere, like the US. So if you are in the US you are left paying off the huge difference.

But no one I have ever talked to or heard of has EVER returned to Canada from overseas for any kind of medical treatment, it would just make no sense at all to do so. Your chances are way better in the hospitals and with the doctors overseas.

Canada is way behind in terms of medical facilities, Specialists, doctors, nurses, equipment, and available care.

[fellowtraveller]

There have been solutions, but still alot of problems. Alberta though spends more per capita on health than any other province, so it's not a money issue. It's a poor planning issue. A solid theme in Calgary and Alberta politics.

On the other hand, the metro Edmonton areas Capital Health Authority was deemed the best in Canada, for swrvice delivery, as recently as a couple of years ago.

For some reason Calgary has had big problems with both their health authority and school boards. Maybe it is simply a matter of leadership.

Note that there will never be enough money to allow us all to live forever.

[geoffrey]

Had Motta been in a waiting room in one Calgary ER the entire time instead of going to a different ER (losing his continuity in triage) and then to a rural hospital (all with a view to finding a shorter lineup) arguably, he would have been seen when his condition worsened and not when his appendix burst...but even if it did burst, he would then be able to be instantly taken into surgery in one of the finest tertiary care centres in the country rather than wait in High-River for a futile helicopter ride.

Would he have lived? No one can say of course. But his chances would have been dramatically improved.

You make a good point. But two recent cases in Calgary really make me question that logic.

Firstly, the woman that miscarried right out in the waiting room. That's pretty serious, no one really did anything. Then again, was her life in danger, maybe, maybe not.

The more troubling one is the kid who's appendix burst, he passes out because of the pain, and the nurse told the mom to go get a stretcher and put him on it and they'll open up a room when one's available.

This illustrates there are more complexities to the problem then just triage.