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Doom and Gloom forecast for Canada


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You're fine with yours but saying we need more and more immigration knowing those immigrants are coming to live with me not you. Here's the deal. We'll bring in a hundred immigrants from Somalia specifically to live with you and your little town. You'll have to feed and clothe and house them, btw.

After a year of living with them you come back here and tell us we should continue to bring in more immigrants.

Deal?

So you want to force people to live where you want them to live? Great idea!

What I want is for people who are in favour of mass immigration to have to live among the mass of immigrants and not retreat to some cosy, semi-rural town while the rest of us have to cope with what their idiocy has wrought.

I would gather up every immigration lawyer and consultant in the Toronto area and force them to live in the Jane/Finch area.

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jdobbin (a praire dweller) original post quotes "My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!"

So jdobbin thinks he's smart enough to escape the pitfalls of Canada's rotten immigration system while actually supporting it, forgets it is the big cities that keep rural Canada alive.

In other words if 'big cities go down then rural Canada goes down'. Your part of the the problem of the decay of Canada whether you think so or not.

And J.fortin (a praire dweller) must be spaced out if he says he is living in Alberta who is facing current major labour shortages makes this amazing statement: "The entire question about immigration does require a rethink, that much I will agree with you on. But having the government tell people where to live is a no-no."

And to think Mr. Harper ( a former praire dweller) is running the country, hopefully he doesn't think along the lines of these two.

What on earth are you talking about? Get your facts straight. I never said "My little prairie city." Think you got the wrong person.

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What I want is for people who are in favour of mass immigration to have to live among the mass of immigrants and not retreat to some cosy, semi-rural town while the rest of us have to cope with what their idiocy has wrought.

I would gather up every immigration lawyer and consultant in the Toronto area and force them to live in the Jane/Finch area.

What is the province doing about facilitating immigration?

The west have lived with mass immigation and for a lot longer than Toronto.

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Specifically what? You say that most refugees come from "refugee camps" which is nonsensical. Most of them turn up at the border and most aren't even real refugees, but economic migrants. You say that immigrants aren't eligible for welfare, when the Ontario government has complained of the enormous costs of providing them with welfare. I don't think I need to prove anything. I think your statements require proof.

I never said anything of the sort.

My mistake. That was someone else. On the other hand, it was in reply to that statement to someone else that you said "prove it".

I said that the Ontario government has within its constitutional rights, the abillity to facilitate immigration. I asked you what the Ontario government was doing to bring immigrants to areas where communities really need them. You didn't answer that question.

I don't care about the question. My point is we have too many immigrants coming to Canada. Period. Full stop. Spreading them out so that smaller centres get to feel the same pressures of pollution, crime and social upheaval does not strike me as a great improvement. Nor can I imagine how it would work given social mobility. You want to have Ontario place lots of Muslims in Kenora? These people up and left their country and crossed several thousand miles to get here. You think they won't pack up and drive down the highway to get to Toronto where they have eighteen cousins and several job offers?

I asked you to tell me the numbers of immigrants or refugees on Social Assistance. You didn't answer that question either.

So tell me the numbers.

If you don't have the numbers, it tells me that you are letting your personall experiences colour your entire viewpoint.

We all let our experiences, our impressions from what we read, our impressions and information taken from those we talk to, what we see on TV, etc. determine our opinions. Numbers of immigrants on welfare are not readily available to me. If you have them feel free to post them. Ah, but you don't. Still, you are trying to take a position which says they're in far fewer numbers than I suggest. Where are YOUR numbers?

I can go to any public housing project and see the vast sea of visible minorities. What evidence do you have?

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I don't care about the question. My point is we have too many immigrants coming to Canada. Period. Full stop. Spreading them out so that smaller centres get to feel the same pressures of pollution, crime and social upheaval does not strike me as a great improvement. Nor can I imagine how it would work given social mobility. You want to have Ontario place lots of Muslims in Kenora? These people up and left their country and crossed several thousand miles to get here. You think they won't pack up and drive down the highway to get to Toronto where they have eighteen cousins and several job offers?

We all let our experiences, our impressions from what we read, our impressions and information taken from those we talk to, what we see on TV, etc. determine our opinions. Numbers of immigrants on welfare are not readily available to me. If you have them feel free to post them. Ah, but you don't. Still, you are trying to take a position which says they're in far fewer numbers than I suggest. Where are YOUR numbers?

I can go to any public housing project and see the vast sea of visible minorities. What evidence do you have?

If Ontario is failing in to faciliate immigrants integrating into Ontario, then it is a failure of the Ontario government, not the federal government. You say you don't care and just want to end immigration. That's not exactly holding your own province accountable. And it doesn't address the needs of the rest of the country.

As for people packing up and moving, what evidence do you have that people migrate immediately after they arrive in the country?

I have no idea what the number of refugees or new immigrants in Ontario that are on social assistance. But since it is one of your primary arguments against them, I ask you to provide them. I won't do your research for you.

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jdobbin (a praire dweller) original post quotes "My little praire city? I live about 3kms from a town with about ten houses and no business's in it. I choose to live away from the city life. You chosse to live in it. You can complain about yours if you like but I am fine with mine!"

So jdobbin thinks he's smart enough to escape the pitfalls of Canada's rotten immigration system while actually supporting it, forgets it is the big cities that keep rural Canada alive.

In other words if 'big cities go down then rural Canada goes down'. Your part of the the problem of the decay of Canada whether you think so or not.

And J.fortin (a praire dweller) must be spaced out if he says he is living in Alberta who is facing current major labour shortages makes this amazing statement: "The entire question about immigration does require a rethink, that much I will agree with you on. But having the government tell people where to live is a no-no."

And to think Mr. Harper ( a former praire dweller) is running the country, hopefully he doesn't think along the lines of these two.

What on earth are you talking about? Get your facts straight. I never said "My little prairie city." Think you got the wrong person.

Sorry about the name error. There is a lot of 'J's' floating around. It is Jerry J.fortin who is the (praire dweller).

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What I want is for people who are in favour of mass immigration to have to live among the mass of immigrants and not retreat to some cosy, semi-rural town while the rest of us have to cope with what their idiocy has wrought.

I would gather up every immigration lawyer and consultant in the Toronto area and force them to live in the Jane/Finch area.

What is the province doing about facilitating immigration?

The west have lived with mass immigation and for a lot longer than Toronto.

You must be making reference to B.C. and what have they done about it or did they have no choice?

Or was it simply a Federa Liberal decission to promote and flood the province with Chinese and Asians rather than Brits., Americans or Europeans?

Or was it initially a provincial decission to desire this type of foreign immigration?

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You must be making reference to B.C. and what have they done about it or did they have no choice?

Or was it simply a Federa Liberal decission to promote and flood the province with Chinese and Asians rather than Brits., Americans or Europeans?

Or was it initially a provincial decission to desire this type of foreign immigration?

I was referring to over a hundred years ago when the West was flooded by immigrants, partly as a mechanism to discourage American manifest destiny.

As far as B.C. gies, a lot of that 1990s immigration was a result of two things, the turnover of Hong Kong and of internal strife in India. B.C. was anxious to encourage wealthy Hong Kong residents to settle in the city. There has been adjustment issues for the Chinese but mostly, it has increased the prosperity of British Columbia.

Moreover, as the Hong Kong situation indicated China's willingness to leave businesses alone, many Hong Kongers returned to Hong Kong armed with a Canadian citizenship. They go back and forth rotuinely which is good for trade.

There has been a much harder adjustment in regard to Indian immigration. A lack of understanding of the religious undercurrent led to the greatest terrorist attack in Canadian history. Still, the prosperity for B.C. has been tremendous.

Overall though, B.C. has done quite a bit to faciliate immigrants adjusting and prospering in the province. It has been called the most liveable city in Canada and one of the most liveable in the world. Quite an achievement.

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You must be making reference to B.C. and what have they done about it or did they have no choice?

Or was it simply a Federa Liberal decission to promote and flood the province with Chinese and Asians rather than Brits., Americans or Europeans?

Or was it initially a provincial decission to desire this type of foreign immigration?

I was referring to over a hundred years ago when the West was flooded by immigrants, partly as a mechanism to discourage American manifest destiny.

As far as B.C. gies, a lot of that 1990s immigration was a result of two things, the turnover of Hong Kong and of internal strife in India. B.C. was anxious to encourage wealthy Hong Kong residents to settle in the city. There has been adjustment issues for the Chinese but mostly, it has increased the prosperity of British Columbia.

Moreover, as the Hong Kong situation indicated China's willingness to leave businesses alone, many Hong Kongers returned to Hong Kong armed with a Canadian citizenship. They go back and forth rotuinely which is good for trade.

There has been a much harder adjustment in regard to Indian immigration. A lack of understanding of the religious undercurrent led to the greatest terrorist attack in Canadian history. Still, the prosperity for B.C. has been tremendous.

Overall though, B.C. has done quite a bit to faciliate immigrants adjusting and prospering in the province. It has been called the most liveable city in Canada and one of the most liveable in the world. Quite an achievement.

It seems our previous Liberal federal government always had a desire to encourage third world immigration.

Foreign immigration is not entirely responsiable for B.C's wealth but it's housing industry IMO has done very well but has sold out Canadian interest to incompatiable foreign immigration with federal blessings.

B.C is also a favourite retirement home for wealthy Ontarians who were previously federal civil servants.

But B.C. immigrants have provided a vast array of boutiques for B.C.'s population to conduct buisness.

It appears B.C. signed on to federal -provincial immigration territorial agreements in 1998, but I don't see any signed agreement (yet) between the feds and Ontario like you claim there is, one Ontario can turn to for federal assistance.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/annual-re...5/section2.html

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It seems our previous Liberal federal government always had a desire to encourage third world immigration.

Foreign immigration is not entirely responsiable for B.C's wealth but it's housing industry IMO has done very well but has sold out Canadian interest to incompatiable foreign immigration with federal blessings.

B.C is also a favourite retirement home for wealthy Ontarians who were previously federal civil servants.

But B.C. immigrants have provided a vast array of boutiques for B.C.'s population to conduct buisness.

It appears B.C. signed on to federal -provincial immigration territorial agreements in 1998, but I don't see any signed agreement (yet) between the feds and Ontario like you claim there is, one Ontario can turn to for federal assistance.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/pub/annual-re...5/section2.html

I never claimed that Ontario had an agreement in place. I've repeatedly asked what Ontario has done to facilitate immigrants settling in the province. I have kept pointing out that the West has signed agreements and it has helped with immigrants coming to western provinces.

Nor did I claim that B.C. owed it's entire prosperity to recent immigration. In other remarks, I have indicated that B.C. has benefited from migration of retirees who wish to remain in Canada but in a more temperate climate. It has also benefited from a rebound in the resource sector which has increased employment in all sectors and has helped brings B.C.'s economy back on track.

The Liberal government was not the one to begin the recent influx of immigration. It started in Mulroney years and has continued till now. The Conservatives, under Harper, have indicated no major changes to the policy either.

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I used to work in a job dominated by immigrants.

And that qualifies you as an Immigration expert. What we really have is someone who's life is crap, who cant afford to live in a "really good" neighbourhood, who doesnt make a good living and has to blame someone, so it must be the immigrants.

Still no knowledge apparent of the different requirements for Immigrants and Refugess - they come from "somewhere else" and they arent white so they are all at the root of his problem. Never mind that a lot of Immigrants are investing millions in this country.

Give me a break, get an education, learn a trade, get the motivation and ambitious to move out of "the ghetto" and stop blaming other people for your problems.

Immigrants didnt force you into the ghetto you claim you lived in - Argus you are a bitter little person who hasnt had the life you envisioned you deserved and now need someone to blame.

Everyone here is the product of Immigration or Migration. Canada is a country built by Immigrants or it wouldnt exist. If you had your way Argus, we would be saying "only white Immigrants welcome" and only "white refugees welcome".

Do you even know the definition of "Refugee" - I sincerely doubt it. I bet your next post will say "you are wrong" or "you are mistaken".

Maybe you might uh, actually explore the rules, regulations and realities of Canadian immigration before you let your indignation stress you out too much.
There is no one on this thread that this comment applies more to than yourself Argus. You are woefully ignorant regarding Immigration Policy, Quotas, etc. I repeat, you dont even know the difference between "refugee" and "Immigrant".

How sad that we have "Canadians" like you, I believe I have run into some of your kind overseas, expecting special treatment because they are white and being verbally abusive to their foreign hosts.

Muggings, burglaries and swarmings became commonplace. Ice cream kids on the bicycles were banned from coming into the area after being repeatdly robbed. There was a kidnapping in the park, a gang fight in the field, stabbings in local schools. The board of education self-righteously banned parents from transferring their kids out of the local schools because of "white flight". It seems White parents weren't enjoying their children's particpation in multiculturalism, especially since multiculturalism included regular gang fights between Lebanese and Somalian gangs. Police sirens sounded almost every night. Fires were set - a lot, and false alarms were common. The fire department was there a lot. A mini police station was installed in the subdivision itself.

Move if you dont like it, who was holding a gun to your head to force you to stay and fight the white fight? What a disgusting concept in itself.

I know complexes like this in BC and not a visible minority in sight, just a bunch of low life drug dealers, criminals, hookers and people living "dissapointed angry lives".

BC has benefited tremendously from its Immigrant population, they have invested huge sums of money in the Province, and yes, we do enjoy the Multi Cultural aspect of the population.

The problems that plague BC are the result of Campbell and his Liberals, not Immigration.

If you ever travelled you would realize how populous the rest of the world is compared to Canada, and by that I mean all of Europe.

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We all let our experiences, our impressions from what we read, our impressions and information taken from those we talk to, what we see on TV, etc. determine our opinions. Numbers of immigrants on welfare are not readily available to me. If you have them feel free to post them. Ah, but you don't. Still, you are trying to take a position which says they're in far fewer numbers than I suggest. Where are YOUR numbers?

I can go to any public housing project and see the vast sea of visible minorities. What evidence do you have?

If Ontario is failing in to faciliate immigrants integrating into Ontario, then it is a failure of the Ontario government, not the federal government.

You're really in love with that word aren't you. You seem to think 'facilitate" is a magic word which leads to all immigrants integrating smoothly into society with peace and brotherhood and harmony for all. Ah, if only we had the proper government program!

You say you don't care and just want to end immigration. That's not exactly holding your own province accountable. And it doesn't address the needs of the rest of the country.

Ontario is being flooded by immigrants because of federal decisions. It doesn't matter what they do to "facilitate" them. The numbers are not being determined by Ontario.

I have no idea what the number of refugees or new immigrants in Ontario that are on social assistance. But since it is one of your primary arguments against them, I ask you to provide them. I won't do your research for you.

On the contrary. I don't want massive immigrants for many reasons, including their lack of job skills and education, their lack of language skills, the breakdown of social cohesion they represent, the lack of integration and their loyalty to other countries and cultures, the crime and poverty they bring, the pollution they grow, the crowding and urban sprawl they cause.

And the fact they do not do one single thing we need. No one has been able to put forth any sensible, logical reason as to why we should be bringing in hundreds of thousands of illiterate immigrants every year. As for their numbers on social assistance, I don't care whether you accept it or not. The numbers are self evident to anyone who deals with or lives with or near immigrants.

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You must be making reference to B.C. and what have they done about it or did they have no choice?

Or was it simply a Federa Liberal decission to promote and flood the province with Chinese and Asians rather than Brits., Americans or Europeans?

Or was it initially a provincial decission to desire this type of foreign immigration?

I was referring to over a hundred years ago when the West was flooded by immigrants, partly as a mechanism to discourage American manifest destiny.

What a load of crap. The immigrants which flooded the west were largely of the same cultural makeup as the people who were there. And there were plenty of jobs for strong backs and weak, illiterate minds back then. That is not the case now.

Overall though, B.C. has done quite a bit to faciliate immigrants adjusting and prospering in the province. It has been called the most liveable city in Canada and one of the most liveable in the world. Quite an achievement.

What's the average cost of a house in BC today? How long is the commuting distance? In what way are the Canadian citizens of BC better off now than they were thirty years ago? Just what have immigrants done for them other than increase the crowding, cost of living and crime rate?

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idobbin you can go on the Immigration Canada website and look up Provincial sponsored Immgration and read what the requirements and selection process for Ontario is ....

I know what it says there. I was asking what Ontario itself has been doing about facilitating immigrants.

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I used to work in a job dominated by immigrants.

And that qualifies you as an Immigration expert. What we really have is someone who's life is crap, who cant afford to live in a "really good" neighbourhood, who doesnt make a good living and has to blame someone, so it must be the immigrants.

I have a very nice job, thanks, and a nice house in a nice neighborhood. Apparently the use of the past tense confused you all to hell. But then I've already pointed out your lack of reading skills.

Still no knowledge apparent of the different requirements for Immigrants and Refugess - they come from "somewhere else" and they arent white so they are all at the root of his problem. Never mind that a lot of Immigrants are investing millions in this country.

This from the guy who still insists refugees come from "refugee camps" :lol: despite years of news about the abuses at the border, who still seems to believe immigrants aren't allowed on welfare. Sheer ignorance, and now sheer bravado designed to cover up your embarrassment at being called on your blustering bs.

Give me a break, get an education, learn a trade, get the motivation and ambitious to move out of "the ghetto" and stop blaming other people for your problems.

I don't think most people would call a suburban Minto housing development a "ghetto". My point was to answer your question about just what experience I have with them. The experience was - I lived with and among them for many years. I see the results of what the worm-ridden scumbags in the immigration industry have wrought, most of them nothing more than leeches sucking on the federal teat while they flood the country with illiterate goat herders. That's why I think we should collect up all such filth and drop them into the middle of Jane/Finch, together with their families. Let their kids go to gang-infested schools and prattle on about the glories of multiculturalism.

Everyone here is the product of Immigration or Migration. Canada is a country built by Immigrants or it wouldnt exist.

And there it is: the oldest cliche which every brain-dead weasel resorts to, bleating it like a mantra, chanting it like it's a holy charm against criticism. I don't know about you but I was born here. I am not a product of immigration. And every nation on earth is the product of migration. Migration is the history of the world, you moronic, brainless git.

Do you even know the definition of "Refugee" - I sincerely doubt it. I bet your next post will say "you are wrong" or "you are mistaken".

The definition of refugee is anyone who shows up at the border and declares themselves to be a refugee, and then tells the lies their weaselly immigration advisors and lawyers (who I pay for) put together for them in hopes of getting the biased refugee panel - often made up of immigrants - to go along with them.

Canada let in about 33,000 illiterate goat herders last year as refugees. In all likelihood, 10% were actual refugees, the rest economic migrants who head straight for the welfare rolls.

Maybe you might uh, actually explore the rules, regulations and realities of Canadian immigration before you let your indignation stress you out too much.
There is no one on this thread that this comment applies more to than yourself Argus. You are woefully ignorant regarding Immigration Policy, Quotas, etc. I repeat, you dont even know the difference between "refugee" and "Immigrant".

Since refugees become immigrants the difference is a moot point. And you've already displayed how utterly ignorant you are of the realities of immigration, refugees and the drain they are on social services.

How sad that we have "Canadians" like you,

We're called taxpayers.

BC has benefited tremendously from its Immigrant population,

Yes, now for only half a million dollars you can buy a two bedroom shack a mere hour and a half commute from Vancouver! BC is crowded, dirty and crime-ridden, its schools overrun with foreigners who don't speak English. Canadian kids are now foreigners in their own land, surrounded by a sea of Cantonese and Mandarin speaking kids.

It's too bad self-hating weasels like you have been allowed to destroy a once great province, and are now working to destroy the rest of the country as well.

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idobbin you can go on the Immigration Canada website and look up Provincial sponsored Immgration and read what the requirements and selection process for Ontario is ....

I know what it says there. I was asking what Ontario itself has been doing about facilitating immigrants.

There's that magic word again! It's the word that makes everything better! No matter how many immigrants flood the country we'll all be fine so long as they're properly 'facilitated"!! :lol:

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I never claimed that Ontario had an agreement in place. I've repeatedly asked what Ontario has done to facilitate
:lol::lol::lol:
immigrants settling in the province. I have kept pointing out that the West has signed agreements and it has helped with immigrants coming to western provinces.

BC gets immigrants and refugees from Asia. Ontario gets immigrants and refugees from Africa, the middle east and the Carribean. There is a considerable difference in the problems these groups bring with them.

Nor did I claim that B.C. owed it's entire prosperity to recent immigration.

Scuze me, but isn't BC a have-not province?

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If Ontario is failing in to faciliate immigrants integrating into Ontario, then it is a failure of the Ontario government, not the federal government.

You're really in love with that word aren't you. You seem to think 'facilitate" is a magic word which leads to all immigrants integrating smoothly into society with peace and brotherhood and harmony for all. Ah, if only we had the proper government program!

Ontario is being flooded by immigrants because of federal decisions. It doesn't matter what they do to "facilitate" them. The numbers are not being determined by Ontario.

On the contrary. I don't want massive immigrants for many reasons, including their lack of job skills and education, their lack of language skills, the breakdown of social cohesion they represent, the lack of integration and their loyalty to other countries and cultures, the crime and poverty they bring, the pollution they grow, the crowding and urban sprawl they cause.

And the fact they do not do one single thing we need. No one has been able to put forth any sensible, logical reason as to why we should be bringing in hundreds of thousands of illiterate immigrants every year. As for their numbers on social assistance, I don't care whether you accept it or not. The numbers are self evident to anyone who deals with or lives with or near immigrants.

I'm afraid you don't back up anything you say. As someone pointed out, it's a rant.

Ontario hasn't done a proper job of governing what happens in major cities.

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There's that magic word again! It's the word that makes everything better! No matter how many immigrants flood the country we'll all be fine so long as they're properly 'facilitated"!! :lol:

How about if Ontario took some responsibility for governing?

As for your racism, I can't help that.

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On the contrary. I don't want massive immigrants for many reasons, including their lack of job skills and education, their lack of language skills, the breakdown of social cohesion they represent, the lack of integration and their loyalty to other countries and cultures, the crime and poverty they bring, the pollution they grow, the crowding and urban sprawl they cause.

And the fact they do not do one single thing we need. No one has been able to put forth any sensible, logical reason as to why we should be bringing in hundreds of thousands of illiterate immigrants every year. As for their numbers on social assistance, I don't care whether you accept it or not. The numbers are self evident to anyone who deals with or lives with or near immigrants.

I'm afraid you don't back up anything you say. As someone pointed out, it's a rant.

I dont need to back up what I say as almost all of it is self evident to anyone who lives in the real world - as opposed to ivory tower types whose experience with immigrants consists mainly of going to a Thai restaurant.
Ontario hasn't done a proper job of governing what happens in major cities.

Oh yes, if only we facilitated them more, we'd have no drug filled slums full of an "underclass" no ethnic street gangs, no drive-bys, no growing squalor and poverty! It's all our fault for not properly aclimating the goat herders the federal government lets in!

And the fact there is no logical, economic argument which stands up to even minor investigation to explain why we should be letting in all these people very year - that's just unimportant.

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What a load of crap. The immigrants which flooded the west were largely of the same cultural makeup as the people who were there. And there were plenty of jobs for strong backs and weak, illiterate minds back then. That is not the case now.

What's the average cost of a house in BC today? How long is the commuting distance? In what way are the Canadian citizens of BC better off now than they were thirty years ago? Just what have immigrants done for them other than increase the crowding, cost of living and crime rate?

You must be joking? Same cultural background? The turn of the century saw the same type of intolerance and racism I'm seeing now. It wasn't easy at all and there no services as there are now to help with the adjustment.

You only argue from racism. You have no facts to back up anything you say, do you?

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I dont need to back up what I say as almost all of it is self evident to anyone who lives in the real world - as opposed to ivory tower types whose experience with immigrants consists mainly of going to a Thai restaurant.

Oh yes, if only we facilitated them more, we'd have no drug filled slums full of an "underclass" no ethnic street gangs, no drive-bys, no growing squalor and poverty! It's all our fault for not properly aclimating the goat herders the federal government lets in!

And the fact there is no logical, economic argument which stands up to even minor investigation to explain why we should be letting in all these people very year - that's just unimportant.

Racist.

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There's that magic word again! It's the word that makes everything better! No matter how many immigrants flood the country we'll all be fine so long as they're properly 'facilitated"!! :lol:

How about if Ontario took some responsibility for governing?

As for your racism, I can't help that.

I was waiting for that!! :lol:

If there's one thing I've learned over the years in talking immigration with its supporters, every one of them is too emotionally immature and pig-ignorant to actually discuss the issue without calling names. None can put up any argument in support of it except the old cliche about how we all came from immigrants. And any criticism of immigration inevitably draws the racist charge.

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