Canadian soldiers in moral murk over handing Taliban prisoners to Afgh

[Guest Warwick Green]

KANDAHAR, Afghanistan (CP) - Canadian soldiers have intervened at least twice to prevent the summary execution of Taliban suspects captured on operations with the Afghan army, highlighting the moral murk confronting troops caught between government policy and the brutality of a still-violent country.

And the local representative of Afghanistan's independent human rights commission suspects that nearly a third of prisoners handed over by Canadians are abused and even tortured in Afghan jails.

Afghan authorities have "two kinds of attitudes," said Abdul Noorzai of the Kandahar office of the Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission.

"When they come into my office, they behave very officially," he said. "When they go back to their offices they behave in another way."...

http://www.canada.com/topics/news/world/st...f910baa7&k=8861

[Rue]

Man Warwick this is exactly the problems Canada has walked right into

in its misguided mission to be good guys. We are serving as a proxy

para-military police force for a non democratic government that may want

to execute these Taliban...the same Taliban Canadian soldiers are supposed

to hunt and kill. Now there is moral reservation about killing them? What's next?

Why be there? If the original mission which is to kill Taliban is too

questionable then what?

I would love to read all your opinions on this. Me I really don't know what

to say other then the Canadian military has always been used as peacekeepers

or to fight in conventional wars against a visible enemy and in a war

governed by the Geneva Convention.

In this case what we are doing is acting as a sort of police force and anti-terrorist

assassination squad and where the Geneva Convention does not apply.

Now that the same soldiers all gung ho to go out and search and kill Taliban now have

second thoughts what next?

How long until the Canadian military clashes with the government that wants it to

do the killing for it....then?

[sharkman]

When in Rome...we can not be so arrogent as to dictate to the Afghan military forces what they can and can't do, when they are risking their lives and having their comrades and loved ones killed or tortured.

[Guest Warwick Green]

From the news story:

While captured suspects are supposed to be handed over to the Afghans, the Canadians held on to this detainee until he could be delivered safely later to other officials.

We won't build our own Gitmo, we won't give the prisoners to the Americans so we hand them over to whatever Afghan promises to take care of them - for whatever that's worth. It's the Boy Scout approach to fighting a war.

[geoffrey]

Man Warwick this is exactly the problems Canada has walked right into

in its misguided mission to be good guys. We are serving as a proxy

para-military police force for a non democratic government

This entire paragraph is based on emotional lies. There is no truth in that. More Afghans voted in their elections than Canadian do in ours.

that may want

to execute these Taliban...the same Taliban Canadian soldiers are supposed

to hunt and kill. Now there is moral reservation about killing them? What's next?

Why be there? If the original mission which is to kill Taliban is too

questionable then what?

Good point. I say if you capture someone, that might have information that can save Canadians out there, then its best not just to knock them off right away.

I would love to read all your opinions on this. Me I really don't know what

to say other then the Canadian military has always been used as peacekeepers

or to fight in conventional wars against a visible enemy and in a war

governed by the Geneva Convention.

In this case what we are doing is acting as a sort of police force and anti-terrorist

assassination squad and where the Geneva Convention does not apply.

Now that the same soldiers all gung ho to go out and search and kill Taliban now have

second thoughts what next?

How long until the Canadian military clashes with the government that wants it to

do the killing for it....then?

The nature of war has changed. At the end of World War One, we had people like you. That critized non-trench warfare, and how much more dangerous it was for our troops to be in a gurella conflict. None the less, it's still a security threat, and we need to deal with it.

[uOttawaMan]

Just to surprise those of you who remember me joining these forums a few short months ago, as a classic leftist university student.

I have applied to the Canadian Forces, undergoing the whole recruitment process right now.

How's that for a turn around?

And to you people who say Canada's Army is a peacekeeping army.. open your eyes.

Infanty means to close with and destroy the enemy. Not walk around with a blue helmet on and hand out cookies.

Peacekeeping is an important part of a soldiers life, but it is a small piece of a much larger repetoire.

[killjoy]

This is a classic example making a story when you don't have one to report and the editors are wondering 'what they're paying you for over there'.

The story was destined to be "Our soldiers hand suspects to USA. Canada related to Gitmo?", or "Our soldiers torture prisoners", or "Canada executes Afghans in cold blood", but of course there isn't one of these stories so we have to settle for this.

There is only the incident of some of our solders who have encountered a tricky situation rife with multiple facets and resolving it like professionals. We're done. Maybe you didn't know that these are the kind of things they have to land on their feet with all the time.

But whatever. If it's in the paper there has to be something to it and if it isn't in the paper then it didn't happen. These reporters do their stories from hotel rooms and over the telephone sometimes only because they have a deadline and a need to report something and yet they 'control' and influence every thought anyone has if they are interested in what is going on...and half the time it's all accidental, serendipitous, superfluous or rumour . News is a corporate throwaway business. Their product is unique in that it doesn't really have to be real and all that matters is what's the newest thing. Like the food industry they gussy-up some crap they scrapped off the floor and call it ‘gourmet’….like ‘gourmet hotdogs’.

.

[Rue]

Man Warwick this is exactly the problems Canada has walked right into

in its misguided mission to be good guys. We are serving as a proxy

para-military police force for a non democratic government

This entire paragraph is based on emotional lies. There is no truth in that. More Afghans voted in their elections than Canadian do in ours.

First of all I take my medication regularily so I would like to think I am not emotional nor a liar. A tad harsh don't you think in your response. Let us try debate the point rather then engage in accusations of moi being a liar or emotional. Now to the point, you are confusing being democratically being elected with being democratic. My point remains that the currentg Afghanistan is not a democratic government or what we associate with a democratic government. It is a secular government that does not seperate Islam from the state. It does not have a Charter of Rights or concepts of freedom of expression that we do in Canada. It has asked Canada to hunt and kill its perceived enemies since it does not feel its own police and armed forces are up to the task. That is the point and that isn't a lie, its a fact. We sent our troops there to hunt and kill Taliban on behalf of the current Afghani regime. When we went into Afghanistan no thought was given to the point that our concepts of fairness, democracy and fundamental freedoms is completely different then the current Afghani regime's and that sooner or later we were bound to come into conflict as to how to treat Taliban. That is the dilemma and it will only get worse the longer we stay there. This is the tip of the iceberg.

The point is the moment you use your troops for a function other then a conventional war or say as peacekeepers, and instead choose to use them as a proxy assassination squad against Taliban, this is what will happen.

It goes back to my original point and that is Canadian troops should either be used as a conventional fighting tool or peacekeepers but I completely disagree with them being used as a paramilitary force used to track down and kill Taliban. That is an exercise for small, fast moving, anti-terrorist commandoes not a conventional army.

[uOttawaMan]

Soapboxes are a wonderful thing.