Understanding MAGA, beyond the Trolling

[paxamericana]

Economic Nationalist/Populism is defined by adopting government policy that enable workers to compete successfully and earn a living wage. Ideally where only one spouse is needed to be the breadwinner and families, whose values are founded on the Judeo-Christian Principle. We want our people to compete successfully by limiting the immigration down to a halt and only opening up the borders once a worker shortage can be proven. No longer will we allow the banking globalist elite to dictate immigration policy and economic globalism. We want to dismantle the un-elected arm of government, the bureaucratic state. We do believe taxing the ultra rich top .5 percent and bring down income disparity. We are all in for empowering the middle class and workers.

What we are not.

We are not libertarians, we believe in the exercise of government power through democratically elected means. Whose powers are defined in the constitution up to and including exercising policing enforcement power of the Executive branch.  We are not neo-conservatives with their never ending war and military adventurism, though we will exercise the use of force at a place and time of our choosing if necessary. We are not anti-russian though make no mistake, Putin is a bad guy. We do not see value in encouraging a Chinese Russian alliance, that is against the American interest. The goal is to pull Russia out of the Sino orbit. 

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

Economic Nationalist/Populism is defined by adopting government policy that enable workers to compete successfully and earn a living wage. Ideally where only one spouse is needed to be the breadwinner and families, whose values are founded on the Judeo-Christian Principle. We want our people to compete successfully by limiting the immigration down to a halt and only opening up the borders once a worker shortage can be proven. No longer will we allow the banking globalist elite to dictate immigration policy and economic globalism. We want to dismantle the un-elected arm of government, the bureaucratic state. We do believe taxing the ultra rich top .5 percent and bring down income disparity. We are all in for empowering the middle class and workers.

What we are not.

We are not libertarians, we believe in the exercise of government power through democratically elected means. Whose powers are defined in the constitution up to and including exercising policing enforcement power of the Executive branch.  We are not neo-conservatives with their never ending war and military adventurism, though we will exercise the use of force at a place and time of our choosing if necessary. We are not anti-russian though make no mistake, Putin is a bad guy. We do not see value in encouraging a Chinese Russian alliance, that is against the American interest. The goal is to pull Russia out of the Sino orbit. 

You can't say your policy is to enable worker competition and then claim that you attend to achieve this by limiting the competition amongst workers  

I think I know where you're going but that was severely poorly worded. 

Political hacks and first year University students try to come up with names for everything and label everyone and try and fit them into a neat little pigeonhole. I'd recommend avoiding that.

It sounds sort of like what you're trying to say is you believe in a political model who's focus is creating a positive working environment where workers have an opportunity to get top dollar for their skills and receive compensation commensurate to those skills and their efforts

That's very logical and laudable and in keeping with the success of the capitalist model, but you're not going to achieve anything like that simply by denying access to immigrants.

So one has to ask what are you going to do to actually create that environment?

[paxamericana]

54 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So one has to ask what are you going to do to actually create that environment?

We see immigration as a form of wage suppression. This includes the so called high skill labor H1B. We believe with the right incentives, companies are able to acquire and retain American workers whose skill set are equal if not better than the international immigrants. Why should we allow companies to bring in international students, train them in our university and give them a job that could have been given to our American workers? So they can pay them half the wage with double the working hours? That's not a increase in worker productivity, that's just a race to the bottom. The unskilled illegal migrant workers will also need to be deported. There is no reason to let in indentured servants who can cut grass when young American teens can do those starting jobs .

Edited August 18, 2025 by paxamericana

[Michael Hardner]

You're not anything, though.

What is the plan?

How are you planning to change human nature?

Or are you Communists?

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

  Why should we allow companies to bring in international students, train them in our university and give them a job that could have been given to our American workers?  

Because you gutted public education, and made it impossible for poor people ( 1/2 the country ) to get educated.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, paxamericana said:

We see immigration as a form of wage suppression. This includes the so called high skill labor H1B. We believe with the right incentives, companies are able to acquire and retain American workers whose skill set are equal if not better than the international immigrants. Why should we allow companies to bring in international students, train them in our university and give them a job that could have been given to our American workers? So they can pay them half the wage with double the working hours? That's not a increase in worker productivity, that's just a race to the bottom. The unskilled illegal migrant workers will also need to be deported. There is no reason to let in indentured servants who can cut grass when young American teens can do those starting jobs .

Well some of that is pretty reasonable but it's woefully incomplete. There's nothing wrong with saying that you would like business to maximize the local labor pool as a priority over foreigners, but for that to have meaning you have to be taking action to guarantee that the local labor pool is sufficient to the needs of industry. Otherwise you're hurting everybody including locals over time

And there has to be a mechanism to address shortages if local labor can't provide. Historically even Canada does that, we have a point space system that includes tests for how likely someone is to succeed and get by if they come to our country and specifically it fast tracks people who have needed skills. Car salesman? We have enough of those go to the back of the line. Nurses and doctors? We have a serious need come to the front of the line. That sort of thing

I can do agree with the idea that I'm still labor probably shouldn't be let in. Like I said Canada used to be like that but in 2006 we began to introduce a flag system and point system and it made a big difference.

I do think you need to flush things out a little bit. Sounds like you're on the right track but currently America is not even replacing itself with his birth rate, and immigration is going to have to be a factor unless you want to shrinking population. Shrinking populations are very negative for the economy.

I also think that the public would be more accepting of a scheme that really addressed things thoroughly. Just saying immigrants bad tends to trigger people but if you lay out a system that says and it's immigrants are great under these specific circumstances and in these lower numbers with this criteria and there will be a focus on immigrant who possess skills were short of, you're going to sound pretty hard to argue with. 

Capital with a policy of how you're going to help unskilled Americans more easily develop the skills they need to really succeed and take the good-paying jobs and I think you'd have an absolutely devastating financial economic and social policy that would be extremely defensible.

Not to mention the fact that Canada is already doing some of that or was before Justin came along and it's pretty easy to shoot leftists down if they claim you're just being nazis by saying canada is already pretty damn left wing and they do it  

[paxamericana]

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Canada is already doing some of that

We know. We actually like the Canadian immigration system. But we suspect fraud and over inflated H1B quota numbers from the big corporations and their special interests. Hence closing off the borders for a period time before opening things up.

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

We know. We actually like the Canadian immigration system. But we suspect fraud and over inflated H1B quota numbers from the big corporations and their special interests. Hence closing off the borders for a period time before opening things up.

 

Under harper most of that wasn't a problem. As I said we brought in the main big changes in 2006 so of course it's going to take a while to work out all of the bugs entirely.

Another thing that Canada does you might want to throw in the mix is the majority of our immigration especially with refugees was based on mentorship. In other words people who had already succeeded in Canada that were from the region the immigrant wanted to come from would step up and agree to help the immigrant navigate the Canadian experience so that they succeeded and they left behind practices that were incompatible with their new country.

That made a massive difference. Justin Trudeau has largely thrown that out the window but I hope that we get back to it soon. The mentors would help them prepare for employment, introduce them to important people that could help them, help get their kids in school and navigate all of the tedious paperwork that they didn't understand and explain cultural differences that they were going to have to cope with and give advice as to how they overcame it themselves. They could also be a reference that employers could look at and see that there was a Canadian backing this new immigrant and maybe they were worth the risk

Made all the difference. Some Industries adopted this as well and went even further, for example there were a lot of Filipino nurses in British Columbia and a system was set up so that incoming filipino nurses were paired up with experienced Canadian Filipino nurses and the speed at which the newbies got up to speed was incredible.

 

Sounds like your policies more or less have a pretty solid base and logic reason and demonstrable historic success. I think if you flush it out just a little bit more you'll be pretty damn Bulletproof against any criticism

[paxamericana]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're not anything, though.

What is the plan?

How are you planning to change human nature?

Or are you Communists?

Because you gutted public education, and made it impossible for poor people ( 1/2 the country ) to get educated.

Economic populism. That's the core message.

We like school choice, we do not like union ran public school system. Corey(a friend of mine) is the architect behind the MAGA push for defunding the union. Its a compelling case, I strongly encourage you read his works.

Edited August 18, 2025 by paxamericana

[Michael Hardner]

2 hours ago, paxamericana said:

Economic populism. That's the core message.

We like school choice, we do not like union ran public school system. Corey(a friend of mine) is the architect behind the MAGA push for defunding the union. Its a compelling case, I strongly encourage you read his works.

You like Populism but not unions. 🤔

You want to increase wages but not allow organizing. 🤔

The forces that keep wages low don't just use immigration.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

America has every right to defend its own national interests.  I don't think isolating themselves by picking unnecessary fights with its allies like Canada, including 51st state threats and rhetoric, is wise.  The relationship is already damaged for many years after Trump leaves because the US can no longer be trusted as a reliable ally.

No matter how much it spends on defence, non-superpower countries with small populations like Canada are unable to defend itself against superpowers and thus needs to seek allies for mutual security, like NATO.  If the US wants to drive countries like Canada and the EU towards alliances with a superpower like China out of necessity due to US threats that's their prerogative.  It's an incredibly dumb geopolitical strategy for the US.

The US can't defend itself against the entire rest of the world.  It couldn't even defeat the Vietcong or the Taliban.  If Canada needs to join China, Russia, India, and/or the rest of NATO to remove a Trumpster authoritarian regime from power due to existential threats then Canada will do that if it must.  It would make more sense for the US & Canada to be allies against common enemies, but if this is what America wants then Canada will do what it must.  Canada already abandoned protection from Britain post-WWII in favor of US protection when it suited Canada's interests.

The US economy also can't live in a bubble. If it wants to drive Canadians and Europeans towards buying more Asian products that's fine. Americans will go broke when the world turns on them for being so arrogant.  The tourism industry within the US has already been devastated.

[paxamericana]

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The US can't defend itself against the entire rest of the world.  It couldn't even defeat the Vietcong or the Taliban.  If Canada needs to join China, Russia, India, and/or the rest of NATO to remove a Trumpster authoritarian regime from power due to existential threats then Canada will do that if it must.  It would make more sense for the US & Canada to be allies against common enemies, but if this is what America wants then Canada will do what it must.  Canada already abandoned protection from Britain post-WWII in favor of US protection when it suited Canada's interests.

It actually could and does defend itself from the rest of the world. You have to remember we are not just a Global Super power, we are a naval power first and foremost. The American fleet could sink the entire world's fleet with tonnage left over. A Navy is something you need in order to get to us in the first place. This is before you even consider the most technologically advance air force and space force in the world. To field a large Navy is cost prohibitive. You need special geography and expertise to be good at it. Even the Chinese with their vast industrial base still have not caught up to the United States. Remember, we are heir of the British Empire that ruled the seas but with a continental sized punch. We have a unassailable strength. The only force in human history capable of invading another entire continent was us, the Americans. 

 

15 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The US economy also can't live in a bubble. If it wants to drive Canadians and Europeans towards buying more Asian products that's fine.

Again you need to get your product to the Asian shores to begin with, something you can't do without a navy. Our coast guard would just impound your ships and sink the Chinese if it ever came to that. Global trade requires protected maritime access, America controls the maritime choke point, something you all seem to forget because we were the ones keeping security.

No, if America were to fall it would have to come from within. 

But to address your main point, we are in a period of renegotiation regarding trade. I don't think we will do away with global trade completely but America needs to pick and choose it's allies to bring along into this new era. And cast out those it deem a threat like China. The Anglos will be brought along albeit a period of haggling will ensue I'm sure. The Danes are also promising and so are the Asian protectorate. 

Edited August 19, 2025 by paxamericana

[Moonlight Graham]

21 minutes ago, paxamericana said:

It actually could and does defend itself from the rest of the world.

No, the US has NATO countries on its side right now.  If it's kicked out of NATO they'll be isolated.

52% of oil the US imports comes from Canada.  Good luck powering the US navy on fumes.

10 hours ago, paxamericana said:

we believe in the exercise of government power through democratically elected means

False.

[paxamericana]

14 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Good luck powering the US navy on fumes.

It runs on magic rods you all seem allergic to using. Remember the majority of those oil we import from you goes to sales in Europe as finished products. We are a net exporter. 

14 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

NATO they'll be isolated.

You have to understand the formation of NATO from the American perspective to comprehend its importance to us. NATO always was an alliance built to box in the Russian and their predecessor the Soviet. We have moved away from the Soviet collapse and this Russian long self inflicted suicide. We no longer have a strategic reason to keep NATO afloat. While I generally agree that more allies is better than less, there is a hierarchy of priorities none the less. With Russia bogged down in Ukraine and Europe aging out we are just not that interested in maintaining the NATO alliance in its current form. UNLESS there is a compelling reason say trade wise for us to keep it going... which is what Trump was trying to do with these new trade deals. NATO needs to bribe America into caring. 

Edited August 19, 2025 by paxamericana

[Moonlight Graham]

Good luck maintaining US hegemony with the large majority of the world not being your ally lol.  Chinese century it will be I guess.   Typical US-style arrogance.  Going to go shop on Temu now lol....

[paxamericana]

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Good luck maintaining US hegemony with the large majority of the world not being your ally lol.  Chinese century it will be I guess.  

I can guarantee you it won’t be the Chinese century. They’re going away for demographic reasons alone. 

12 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Typical US-style arrogance

We’re an accidental superpower. It may come off as arrogance but that’s not the case, it’s apathy. We’re content being isolated, historically the highest international trade America has ever done was just 30% of GDP (most of which were in NAFTA). That is no accident, America really is that insular, until the world reaches out and messes with America that is . That’s why you get an American overreaction, for better or worse. Look at both world wars, and the war on terror.

If you want us to prop up the ceiling at our expense , you’re going to have to convince to the Americans that there is a big bad wolf out to get their lunch. The Ukraine war is not it.

Edited August 19, 2025 by paxamericana

[Nationalist]

16 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You're not anything, though.

What is the plan?

How are you planning to change human nature?

Or are you Communists?

Because you gutted public education, and made it impossible for poor people ( 1/2 the country ) to get educated.

Gee...this is really a dumb attempt at lying.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Gee...this is really a dumb attempt at lying.

More like an attempt at obfuscation but either way it's dumb

[robosmith]

6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Gee...this is really a dumb attempt at lying.

What is the lie, gnat girl?

Shutting down the Dept of Education is not "gutted public education"?

Do you have any idea what the DoE does?

[paxamericana]

21 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Do you have any idea what the DoE does?

Yeah they're the propaganda wing of leftist who wants to push DEI initiative into the education system. The same people who want sex predator reading to kids in public school. 

"Imprinting anti-American, subversive, harmful, and false ideologies on our Nation’s children not only violates longstanding anti-discrimination civil rights law in many cases, but usurps basic parental authority"

 

Edited August 19, 2025 by paxamericana

[gatomontes99]

1 hour ago, robosmith said:

What is the lie, gnat girl?

Shutting down the Dept of Education is not "gutted public education"?

Do you have any idea what the DoE does?

Gutting the department of education is to education as chemo therapy is to cancer. It isn't a cure, but it will help. 

[robosmith]

On 8/19/2025 at 1:02 PM, paxamericana said:

Yeah they're the propaganda wing of leftist who wants to push DEI initiative into the education system. The same people who want sex predator reading to kids in public school. 

"Imprinting anti-American, subversive, harmful, and false ideologies on our Nation’s children not only violates longstanding anti-discrimination civil rights law in many cases, but usurps basic parental authority"

 

Nope. A PRIMARY issue which the DoE solves is LOCAL refusal to fund special education so DISABLED children can get the EDUCATION to which they are ENTITLED.

Has NOTHING to do with drag queen story hour. Duh

[gatomontes99]

1 minute ago, robosmith said:

Nope. A PRIMARY issue which the DoE solves is LOCAL refusal to fund special education so DISABLED children can get the EDUCATION to which they are ENTITLED.

Has NOTHING to do with drag queen story hour. Duh

 

Name one local school system that is going to refuse to educate special needs kids or else be proven a liar...again.