gerryhatrick Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 The massacre and the MarinesUS troops could face death penalty for what is seen as potentially the worst war crime since Iraqi invasion By Raymond Whitaker Published: 28 May 2006 US Marines could face the death penalty after one of their number took horrific photographs of a massacre in Iraq on his mobile phone, The Independent on Sunday has learned. The photographs, seized by the US Naval Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS), show many victims shot at close range in the head and chest, execution-style, according to sources who have seen them. One image shows a mother and young child bent over on the floor as if in prayer. Both have been shot dead. Similar photographs taken by a Marines intelligence team which arrived on the scene later show that soldiers "suffered a total breakdown in morality and leadership, with tragic results", according to a US official quoted by the Los Angeles Times yesterday. The killing of more than 20 Iraqi civilians in the town of Haditha last November, first reported in the IoS two months ago, has become an international scandal after evidence from two official investigations was shown to Congressmen in the past 10 days. Democrat John Murtha, a former Marines colonel who has retained close links to the military despite his denunciation of the Iraq occupation, said Marines "killed innocent civilians in cold blood". http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle...ticle620720.ece This is a hard truth to face, but Murtha threw it at us in the middle of May after he was briefed on the investigation: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/nation/3871378.html What Murtha has been saying about the troops being strained and extended is proving true and the reality is bearing a bitter fruit. I hope they don't seek the death penalty, that's all I can say. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost&outofcontrol Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 I hope they don't seek the death penalty, that's all I can say. The more important question is; how high will the investigation go up the chain of commands? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Dear gerryhatrick, potentially the worst war crimeThe US (and Israel) announced that they were immune to 'war crimes' prosecution. However, internal discipline may use that, or possibly other, verbiage. I doubt that they will seek the death penalty, though. While 'the fog of war' probably can't be used as a defence here, fighting guerillas sometimes calls for 'alternate' measures. Sometimes 'innocent noncombatants' are far from that. However, this seems to be of 'reprisal' killings, which should be rightfully outlawed. I am glad to see an investigation, though. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerryhatrick Posted May 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Dear gerryhatrick,potentially the worst war crimeThe US (and Israel) announced that they were immune to 'war crimes' prosecution. However, internal discipline may use that, or possibly other, verbiage. Kind of a moot point, dontcha think? If you think there's something to be gained here by debating a term used in a media sub-title then go for it. And your points about "alternate measures" being needed against guerillas and cynical comment about "innocent noncombatants" don't belong in this topic. This was a massacre of innocents. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 My Lai all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theloniusfleabag Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Dear newbie, My Lai all over again.I think this is where gerryhatrick needs his history lesson. And your points about "alternate measures" being needed against guerillas and cynical comment about "innocent noncombatants" don't belong in this topic.The USA needed to commit hundreds, if not thousands, of 'strategic My Lais' to win the Viet Nam war. From a purely pragmatic view, of course. Quote Would the Special Olympics Committee disqualify kids born with flippers from the swimming events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerryhatrick Posted May 29, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 The USA needed to commit hundreds, if not thousands, of 'strategic My Lais' to win the Viet Nam war. From a purely pragmatic view, of course. Why are you wasting my time with your drival? Are you trying to reduce the importance of this occurance? You think it is OK, that your point? Seems to be it. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Why does the liberal MSM only report the bad news? After all there's milions of Iraqis that haven't been murdered in cold blood, but we only hear about these victims. Those dead Iraqi women and children have an obvious left wing bias. [/right-wing channelling] Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PocketRocket Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Why does the liberal MSM only report the bad news? Well, to report something like "In Iraq today, no innocents were killed. In addition, no one was charged with murder", doesn't make much of a story now, does it??? As for only bad news being reported, haven't we heard numerous stories about the arrival of democracy in Iraq, the success of their first democratic election, and the Iraqi Mayor who says "Thank you" to GWBush??? Haven't we heard Pentagon releases about how well the military effort in Iraq is progressing??? The MSM report stories that they think will sell newspapers and/or bring up their ratings. The MSM is a business, like any other. Their business is to $ELL themselves to the public as being "The Best" source for news. They make more or less money depending on how many people trust them to be the best source. To this end, they will put out the stories that will attract the public's attention. This is one reason I like the CBC(with apologies to Monty and a few others), the BBC, and a few other foreign news sources. Their funding does NOT some from sensationalizing stories to try sell more papers or raise their ratings. Quote I need another coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Well, to report something like "In Iraq today, no innocents were killed. In addition, no one was charged with murder", doesn't make much of a story now, does it??? Thanks, but I was being facetious and writing in the voice of a hypothetical irrational right-winger. "If it bleeds, it leads." is a concept that is understood by anyone with any undestanding of the news media, which is why accusations of bias are usually so far off the mark. Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I have great respect for our military (yes, MB, even as a "Massachusetts liberal" ), but things like Haditha, aside from being terrible crimes, undermine the entire war effort. As such, whoever committed these crimes (the shooting and then the cover-up of the shooting), need to pay to the fullest extent of the law if convicted. On top of that, this is yet another reason Rumsfeld ought to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHS Posted June 1, 2006 Report Share Posted June 1, 2006 I hope they don't seek the death penalty, that's all I can say. The more important question is; how high will the investigation go up the chain of commands? Good God. Do you honestly believe that the higher-ups ordered the troops to avenge the deaths of their fellow marines by massacring women and children? Quote "And, representing the Slightly Silly Party, Mr. Kevin Phillips Bong." * * * "Er..no. Harper was elected because the people were sick of the other guys and wanted a change. Don't confuse electoral success (which came be attributed to a wide variety of factors) with broad support. That's the surest way to wind up on the sidelines." - Black Dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GostHacked Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5042036.stm I kind of thought nothing would come of it. They have been cleared of any wrongdoing. Who would have guessed!!! Quote Google : Webster Griffin Tarpley, Gerald Celente, Max Keiser ohm on soundcloud.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted June 3, 2006 Report Share Posted June 3, 2006 The problem was that A US military investigation has found there was no misconduct by US troops over Iraqi civilian deaths in the town of Ishaqi, a spokesman says. When you investigate yourself you have the classic fox guarding the hen house scenario. At the end of the day it is reduced to just some more innocent Iraqis dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffrey Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 Deleted. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") -- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerryhatrick Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 I hope they don't seek the death penalty, that's all I can say. The more important question is; how high will the investigation go up the chain of commands? Good God. Do you honestly believe that the higher-ups ordered the troops to avenge the deaths of their fellow marines by massacring women and children? You need to think a bit. The point is quite obviously how high will the investigation go up the chain of command as to who decided a cover-up was necessary. Initially the story was covered up. You have been following this story? Quite obviously the massacre was a knee-jerk reaction by soldiers who were under pressure, just as Murtha describes. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Utah Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 This is the Age of 24 Hour News, where jumping on the bandwagon for the MSM is more important then the real facts.. These leaks are just leaks not proven facts as the Military hasn't concluded their investigation. The leaks only present one side of the story as the Military is investigating the events at Haditha. The Marines are claiming they were under small arms fire. A large Fire Fight between U.S. Forces and Insurgents took place less then a mile away from where the Iraqi civilians were killed.. It doesn't excuse what might have happen, but to proclaim these Marines are guilty without a single charge being filed without anyone being found guilty is just as wrong.. Rushes judgement end up causing more harm, the Military is investigating events in Haditha, if these Marines committed crimes justice should be served to them that includes anyone who tried to cover this up.. In the end does Innocent until proven guilty mean anything? Or has it lost it's meaning when applied to U.S. Marines? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerryhatrick Posted June 4, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 It doesn't excuse what might have happen, but to proclaim these Marines are guilty without a single charge being filed without anyone being found guilty is just as wrong.. Nobody is talking about them any differently than people would speak of anybody arrested for murder. Where is your outrage or concern for the innocent Iraqis killed? Are they unimportant to you? Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Utah Posted June 4, 2006 Report Share Posted June 4, 2006 It doesn't excuse what might have happen, but to proclaim these Marines are guilty without a single charge being filed without anyone being found guilty is just as wrong.. Nobody is talking about them any differently than people would speak of anybody arrested for murder. Where is your outrage or concern for the innocent Iraqis killed? Are they unimportant to you? I have sadness for these innocent Iraqis killed regardless of who killed them. My sadness is also there for the rest of innocent Iraqis who have been killed in Iraq.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday. Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted August 2, 2006 Report Share Posted August 2, 2006 Evidence collected on the deaths of 24 Iraqis in Haditha supports accusations that U.S. Marines deliberately shot the civilians, including unarmed women and children, a Pentagon official said Wednesday. This is pretty bad. It doesn't help the level of trust that is needed between the American military and the Iaqi people. It certainly doesn't help Bush either when he trying to say that the U.S. is force for good in Iraq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 3, 2006 Report Share Posted August 3, 2006 Meanwhile, in other atrocities... At a military hearing Wednesday on the killing of the detainees near Samarra, witnesses painted a picture of a brigade that operated under loose rules allowing wanton killing and tolerating violent, anti-Arab racism. Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanie_ Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 An update.... 8 Marines charged in Iraqi civilian massacre Quote For to be free is not merely to cast off one's chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others. Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdobbin Posted December 21, 2006 Report Share Posted December 21, 2006 An update....8 Marines charged in Iraqi civilian massacre To top it off, December is being characterized as more violent that previous months. "Surge" is going to help this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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