Why should we hate Nazis?

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Can you be specific?

The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky.[2] Two of the most infamous operations for which the Irgun were known; the bombing of the British administrative headquarters for Mandatory Palestine in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre that killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, carried out with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

You're right, the settlement of Jews in Palestine started peacefully and legally enough but it became more violent and illegal as time passed. It's still happening too.

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I support justice for Palestinians but also justice for Israelis.

So do I.

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Leftists only seem to focus largely on the injustices against Palestinians because Israel is a far more powerful entity.

What's mostly convinced me Palestine was always on the right side of history is the partisan vehemence right wing conservatives have towards lefties who disagree.

It's led to my conviction that secular lefties are the regions only hope. It should be no surprise that the most violent protagonists from both sides are hard line religious conservatives. You all go together like peas and carrots. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

 

What's mostly convinced me Palestine was always on the right side of history is the partisan vehemence right wing conservatives have towards lefties who disagree.

It's led to my conviction that secular lefties are the regions only hope. It should be no surprise that the most violent protagonists from both sides are hard line religious conservatives. You all go together like peas and carrots. 

What a load of horseshit.

You support terrorists. Historically the vast majority of people do not like people who support terrorists. The fact that you're not popular is in no way shape or form an indication that you're on the right side of anything. Generally speaking people also don't like Nazis. But if a Nazi showed up and claimed that this was proof that Nazis were on the right side of history I would say the same thing to them

[Moonbox]

22 hours ago, I am Groot said:

But I'm not actually comparing the Left to Nazis. I'm contrasting them. The real comparison is Islam to Nazism. And the fact the Left is infatuated with Islam and hand-waves away all the otherwise uncomfortable things that Muslims generally believe in, like killing gays, beating women who disobey their men, forcing them to cover their hair and often faces, banning abortion, etc. In other words, all the stuff the Left hates Nazis for they ignore in Muslims.

Except you went to great length to draw the imagined similarities between the Nazis and TheLeft™, and describe how the ideals of the former were supposedly being embraced by the latter.  That's the literal opposite of "contrasting".  

That's not the silliest part of your reasoning though.  The silliest part is this imaginary, monolithic and uniform Left™ that you describe for your own comfort, but that doesn't actually exist.  😑

 

 

[I am Groot]

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

Except you went to great length to draw the imagined similarities between the Nazis and TheLeft™, and describe how the ideals of the former were supposedly being embraced by the latter.  That's the literal opposite of "contrasting".  

I would suggest you re-read my OP and reconsider. I am referring to the Left's hypocrisy, and the fact many of their social beliefs appear to be based largely on what's in fashion rather than principles. That includes their opposition to Nazis, which now appears based on nothing much at all since they embrace a group that has largely the same beliefs Nazis do.

8 hours ago, Moonbox said:

That's not the silliest part of your reasoning though.  The silliest part is this imaginary, monolithic and uniform Left™ that you describe for your own comfort, but that doesn't actually exist.  😑

Rather like virtually everyone on the Left refers to the 'far right' - meaning anyone not them?

The LEFT is a group whose general response to almost every social and political question can be fairly solidly predicted. The variance within that largely uniform group has been dwindling over the years to the point it's hardly worth considering these days when speaking generally (as one must) of a large group.

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

All that differentiates the bad guys from the people launching airstrikes is that the latter are no longer considered terrorists. They've been normalized by people who caved to them decades ago and have been cheering them on ever since.

I would say that what differentiates the people launching airstrikes is their humanity and civilization. The others are religious zealots with a medieval mentality who really shouldn't exist in this day and age. Most of them would be quite content if we could find a time machine and send them back a thousand years.

Edited August 13, 2025 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

10 hours ago, eyeball said:

The Irgun policy 

You try to justify the barbarism, fanaticism, and savagery of the Palestinians today by citing a group that was nasty in the 1930s and 1940s. But by any measure, the Palestinians are worse than Irgun was and you seem to be spending a lot of time crying over their fate.

And why is it guys like you always cite things from the 1940s to condemn the Jews but never do the same to condemn modern-day Japanese or Germans?

Edited August 13, 2025 by I am Groot

[I am Groot]

22 hours ago, eyeball said:

You figure it's good to have the family over for a BBQ and to watch and celebrate as shells explode in Gaza?

Good? Perhaps not. Understandable? Oh, yes. I don't think you have the imagination to have any idea the kind of shock and horror the Oc 7 had on Israelis, and how it turned even lifelong peacenicks into raging haters of the Palestinians.

[eyeball]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You support terrorists.

So do you. Always have always will.

[CdnFox]

15 hours ago, eyeball said:

No, you're saying this not me.

 

You already said it. I'm just quoting you

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

You already said it. I'm just quoting you

You're just quoting yourself. It's what you do.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

So do you. Always have always will.

Yawn.  Sure kid. 

Except you actually do and everyone here knows it 

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You're just quoting yourself. It's what you do.

Double Yawn. 

Uh huh. 

I'd be embarrassed to admit what i said too if i were you, so i can't blame you for lying.  I stand by what i say so i don't need to lie. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

The Nazis despised classical liberal values and Christian ones too. They advocated reversion to a pagan, tribal culture dominated by the strong. There’s little to admire there. 

Edited August 13, 2025 by SpankyMcFarland

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

The Irgun policy was based on what was then called Revisionist Zionism founded by Ze'ev Jabotinsky.[2] Two of the most infamous operations for which the Irgun were known; the bombing of the British administrative headquarters for Mandatory Palestine in Jerusalem on 22 July 1946 and the Deir Yassin massacre that killed at least 107 Palestinian Arab villagers, including women and children, carried out with Lehi on 9 April 1948.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

You're right, the settlement of Jews in Palestine started peacefully and legally enough but it became more violent and illegal as time passed. It's still happening too.

That was immediately after the holocaust ended.  When the whole world hates you and the country you lived in just tried to exterminate you, your family, and your people, it's not surprising that some resort to violence out of desperation in order to save their very existence because they feel there's no other option to be safe. Palestinian Arabs have never felt that.  They're surrounded by Arab Muslim countries

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

What's mostly convinced me Palestine was always on the right side of history is the partisan vehemence right wing conservatives have towards lefties who disagree.

You mean how you feel about conservatives on the issue?

17 hours ago, eyeball said:

It's led to my conviction that secular lefties are the regions only hope. It should be no surprise that the most violent protagonists from both sides are hard line religious conservatives. You all go together like peas and carrots. 

The anti-zionist lefties are about appeasement and submission.  They want to give Palestinians everything they want in order to end the conflict, which is the destruction of the State of Israel.  They're no different than Neville Chamberlain or Jimmy Carter.  Nice guys finish last and are too weak to be willing to defend anything.

The reasonable solution is a 2-state solution, which hardline religious conservatives on both sides don't want.  I'm not a hardline religious conservative, but most Israelis and Palestinians are, and especially their leaders.  Hence, we have war.

If everyone followed international law there would have never been any war and there would be no conflict now.  We would have a 2-state solution per the 1947 UN partition plan.  There's fault on both sides, but it started with the Arabs when they launched war against Israel in 1948.

Edited August 13, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Except you actually do and everyone here knows it 

Yup, just like Einstein.

 

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

I stand by what i say

LMAO!

3 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You mean how you feel about conservatives on the issue?

No, how conservatives feel about me.

Fùck them too.

 

[eyeball]

5 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The anti-zionist lefties are about appeasement and submission.

That explains why conservatives admit they'd submit if they were Palestinians.

Immigrants trying to cross our borders should try with guns blazing, they'd have better luck.

[Moonlight Graham]

35 minutes ago, eyeball said:

That explains why conservatives admit they'd submit if they were Palestinians.

Immigrants trying to cross our borders should try with guns blazing, they'd have better luck.

Jews immigrated legally to Palestine.   They didn't "invade".  You're confusing them with the Arab Muslim armies in 640 CE who conquered and stole Jewish land at knife-point.

If the indigenous peoples of Canada wanted their own country, and a whole bunch of them moved back to Canada legally by buying land after being holocausted abroad, i'd probably be a little understanding of the whole thing, even if i disagreed on some of the details.   I certainly wouldn't support launching military attacks on them when they declared their own state per UN decree, I wouldn't launch rockets at their civilians weekly for decades in order to terrorize them, and I wouldn't be barging into their homes and slaughtering them out of hatred.

If indigenous Canadians wanted their own country after being slaughtered elsewhere we know what your response would be.  You would acquiesce and appease.  You're a hypocrite.  You certainly wouldn't defend your country, you're a "citizen of planet earth", remember?

Roll over on your back and let the wolves eat you alive...wouldn't want to stand up for yourself and risk hurting somebody's feelings!  You BC hippies are all the same...

Edited August 13, 2025 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Jews immigrated legally to Palestine. They didn't "invade".  You're confusing them with the Arab Muslim armies in 640 CE who conquered and stole Jewish land at knife-point.

Some did for sure.

Einstein said the ones who didn't were no better than Nazis.

24 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

If indigenous Canadians wanted their own country after being slaughtered elsewhere we know what your response would be.  You would acquiesce and appease.  You're a hypocrite. 

You're being ridiculous. I'd fight tooth and nail if they tried to kill me.

25 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You certainly wouldn't defend your country, you're a "citizen of planet earth", remember?

And as such I'd also defend myself first.

27 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Roll over on your back and let the wolves eat you alive...wouldn't want to stand up for yourself and risk hurting somebody's feelings!  You BC hippies are all the same...

That's pure projection on your part. You haven't got a clue who I am.

[Venandi]

Unfortunately, the historical perspectives here are irrelevant.

Until such time as Herb finishes work on that time machine the problem is as simple as the solution is difficult.

----------------------

- Hamas is dedicated to the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews; and

- Israel isn't going anywhere. 

 

That's what ya got to work with.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

23 minutes ago, eyeball said:

You're being ridiculous. I'd fight tooth and nail if they tried to kill me.

When Israel declared independence they didn't try to kill anyone, the UN gave them a state and all Arab neighbours attacked them.

So if indigenous people declared an independent state decreed to them by the UN in half of Canada around the areas they live now (mostly rural areas and the north) would you attack them or support such an attack?

[eyeball]

58 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

When Israel declared independence they didn't try to kill anyone,

Well, they'd already killed or chased everyone off by that point.

Why are you ignoring the often violent years before they declared independence - before Zionist terrorists became the IDF?

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

the UN gave them a state and all Arab neighbours attacked them.

After they'd been flooded with Palestinian refugees heard their stories and what people like Einstein were saying, who can really blame them? Especially in the face of global indifference to it if not support.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Moonlight Graham said:

So if indigenous people declared an independent state decreed to them by the UN in half of Canada around the areas they live now (mostly rural areas and the north) would you attack them or support such an attack?

I'd wait until I was actually attacked before resorting to violence myself.

I might also have good reason to support indigenous people.

 

[CdnFox]

5 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The Nazis despised classical liberal values and Christian ones too. They advocated reversion to a pagan, tribal culture dominated by the strong. There’s little to admire there. 

They were huge proponents of universal health care, they had paid 'family fun days' to make sure people took mental heath breaks with their families and to reward hard workers,  they actually had a lot of social programs.  LIke a lot.  For 'real' germans anyway  

They weren't klingons or spartans. 

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

Well, they'd already killed or chased everyone off by that point.

Why are you ignoring the often violent years before they declared independence - before Zionist terrorists became the IDF?

This is BS.  Irgun did not "become the IDF", they were absorbed into the IDF like other paramilitary organizations.   Irgun was not the primary Jewish paramilitary group in Mandatory Palestine, that was Haganah.  Irgun was an independent  terrorist group that was opposed and condemned by leaders David Ben-Gurion and Chaim Weizmann plus the British, US etc.  Those Jewish leaders controlled Haganah, not Irgun.  Einstein condemned Irgun like everyone else did.

In fact Irgun's creation was a result of Jewish leaders putting restrictions on Haganah to avoid retribution attacks on Palestinian Arabs because Arabs would attack Jews in Mandatory Palestine.  Irgun didn't agree with the restrictions so they splintered from Haganah and formed their own aggressive militant group.  You can't use some massacre incident by some radical splinter terrorist group punks as if it's the responsibility or will of mainstream Zionists Jews or their leaders.

Haganah's role was to defend Jews in Mandatory Palestine against attacks by Arabs.  Imagine indigenous Canadians moving back to Canada and buying land and white Canadians attacking them because the indigenous wanted self-determination.

The fact is Arabs were typically the ones causing the violence.  They attacked Jews as they began migrating to Palestine, Jews were not attacking Arabs, except some instances of retribution for Arab attacks by some Jewish hooligans like Irgun.  The 1947 civil war erupted when the 1947 UN Partition Plan passed and Arab Palestinians started violence.  When the State of Israel was declared Arabs attacked again.

The vast majority of 1947-1948 Arab Palestinian refugees prior to Israeli independence left on their own out of fear of war or were convinced to leave by Arab leaders who thought they'd win a war and they'd be able to soon return.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'd wait until I was actually attacked before resorting to violence myself.

I might also have good reason to support indigenous people.

Now imagine Arab Muslims conquering Palestine, building their mosques on top of ancient Jewish religious sites, and then telling Jews to go eff themselves when they're getting mass slaughtered in Europe and want to come back to their homeland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Irgun did not "become the IDF", they were absorbed into the IDF like other paramilitary organizations. 

A paramilitary organization is a terrorist group going through the process of sanitizing - history being written by the victors.

[Moonlight Graham]

24 minutes ago, eyeball said:

A paramilitary organization is a terrorist group going through the process of sanitizing - history being written by the victors.

Lol.  Sure.  I think you make up the stories in your head that confirm your biases.