Erosion and decay can be slow and gradual. The reversal almost never is

[myata]

Just so that we knew. The decay of American political system by any standard: intellectual, professional, competence and transparency is in the full view and accelerating right before our eyes. Today.

And there are no miracles that could reverse it magically and painlessly. Yes, we chose it. And sure, we knew.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, myata said:

Just so that we knew. The decay of American political system by any standard: intellectual, professional, competence and transparency is in the full view and accelerating right before our eyes. Today.

And there are no miracles that could reverse it magically and painlessly. Yes, we chose it. And sure, we knew.

Actually, I'm doing the audiobook of Steven Pinker 's Enlightenment Now! and his entire thesis is that there's CONSTANT SLOW IMPROVEMENT in all aspects of human activity and life, and that these things are chronically under-reported.

I don't agree with all of it, but a lot of it is definitely true.

Edited December 11, 2024 by Michael Hardner

[Nationalist]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Actually, I'm doing the audiobook of Steven Pinker 's Enlightenment Now! and his entire thesis is that there's CONSTANT SLOW IMPROVEMENT in all aspects of human activity and life, and that these things are chronically under-reported.

I don't agree with all of it, but a lot of it is definitely true.

So the last 4 or 5 years were just a "hic-up" then?

[Legato]

3 hours ago, myata said:

Just so that we knew. The decay of American political system by any standard: intellectual, professional, competence and transparency is in the full view and accelerating right before our eyes. Today.

And there are no miracles that could reverse it magically and painlessly. Yes, we chose it. And sure, we knew.

when you say "we" please remember that it's just you and the other voices in your head.

Thank you.

[Michael Hardner]

55 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

So the last 4 or 5 years were just a "hic-up" then?

It depends on what you're referring to.

 

[User]

4 hours ago, myata said:

Just so that we knew. The decay of American political system by any standard: intellectual, professional, competence and transparency is in the full view and accelerating right before our eyes. Today.

And there are no miracles that could reverse it magically and painlessly. Yes, we chose it. And sure, we knew.

What is this decay? Specifics please. 

How exactly is it accelerating? Specifics please. 

How did "we" chose this? What did we know?

[Nationalist]

29 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

It depends on what you're referring to.

 

Well...if society is in a state of constant slow improvement, then the last 4 or 5 years have been a "slip" in a downward direction. Think about it.

the culture wars

the failure of our leadership and our media

unnecessary wars

the decline of our economy

and so on...

[Deluge]

5 hours ago, myata said:

Just so that we knew. The decay of American political system by any standard: intellectual, professional, competence and transparency is in the full view and accelerating right before our eyes. Today.

And there are no miracles that could reverse it magically and painlessly. Yes, we chose it. And sure, we knew.

This is why Trump's victory was so crucial. Now we don't have to worry about suffering under the decay and godless oppression of the democrats. 

[myata]

8 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

in all aspects of human activity and life

For that perspective, let's take some numbers. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to estimate that the total human life cost of wars and tyrannies in the 20th century would be at least 1-2 hundred million, i.e. up to a tenth of overall human population. Physically eliminating twenty to forty million humans would have been a formidable challenge in the middle ages - the counts were in thousands. The meaning of this word is quite relative.

Then, what was meant is not humanity progress in any particular sphere, but the evolution of formal social systems: while their decay is often incremental and gradual, it's almost never reversed the same way; the society gets itself into a dead end from which only a disruptive escape is possible.

Edited December 11, 2024 by myata

[Michael Hardner]

13 minutes ago, myata said:

For that perspective, let's take some numbers. It wouldn't be an exaggeration to estimate that the total human life cost of wars and tyrannies in the 20th century would be at least 1-2 hundred million, i.e. up to a tenth of overall human population. Physically eliminating twenty to forty million humans would be a formidable challenge in the middle ages - the counts were in thousands. The meaning of this word is quite relative.

Then, what was meant is not humanity progress in any particular sphere, but the evolution of formal social systems: while their decay is often incremental and gradual, it's almost never reversed the same way; the society gets itself into a dead end from which only a disruptive escape is possible.

The trend is towards less violence and fewer wars over time 

 

[myata]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The trend is towards less violence and fewer wars over time 

Now look who doesn't want to accept the reality. Do you see the numbers? WWI. WWII. Tyrannies: Bolsheviks/Stalin/USSR, Nazi, Stalin again, China, Cambodia. Each had the toll of millions to tens of million human lives plus who knows how many smaller ones: Iran, Cuba, Africa. That means "less violence" or not really - which one?

OK this is off topic, it was explained what was meant in the OP.

[Michael Hardner]

55 minutes ago, myata said:

Now look who doesn't want to accept the reality. Do you see the numbers? WWI. WWII. Tyrannies: Bolsheviks/Stalin/USSR, Nazi, Stalin again, China, Cambodia. Each had the toll of millions to tens of million human lives plus who knows how many smaller ones: Iran, Cuba, Africa. That means "less violence" or not really - which one?

OK this is off topic, it was explained what was meant in the OP.

Well, I'm not going to defend the thesis of someone as qualified as Steven Pinker. I recommend you search out the articles, but from what I've seen they align from the statistics I've seen. Keep in mind that they're going to use empirical data tracked from several sources over time. They will not just be quoting conflicts. For what it's worth. I do believe there was a spike upwards in World war II.

[myata]

Conflicts and political murders by tyrannies directly relate to safety and security. What's more important than safety and security? Would you cheer for the world where you have a great salary and super cool house, healthcare and a ton of other great stuff but with comes the 1 in 10 chance to perish, every single day?

I won't take any names, what they're saying if it doesn't agree with my own eyes and reason.

[DUI_Offender]

13 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

The trend is towards less violence and fewer wars over time 

 

Unfortunately, there are more wars happening right now, than at any time in human history. With climate change, and people fighting for resources, it will get worse...

[myata]

No matter how future elections go, the chaos and decay in American politics will continue and accelerate. As always in evolution, this is the price of laziness and complacency it's been so good we can throw anything at it and it'll work somehow. This process is very likely, irreversible. And for everyone else, two lessons, vivid and obvious:

1. Change is a necessary part of life: we can forget, detest and eschew it only at the price of stagnation and decay.

2. America cannot and will not be the leader of the free world in the foreseeable perspective.

[Michael Hardner]

5 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Unfortunately, there are more wars happening right now, than at any time in human history.  

Do you have a cite?  I haven't heard that one.

[Nationalist]

25 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you have a cite?  I haven't heard that one.

@myata and @DUI_Offender are just wallowing in self-pity.

[myata]

So will America side now with the worst totalitarian aggressor dictator thug on the planet? Yes or no? Only the mirror: and remember, the reality always catches up.

[myata]

1941 - 1945: America confronted dictators of the Axis.

1945 - 1990: America stood and defeated communist dictators.

1990 - 1991: America in coalition defeated dictator Saddam.

2003: America in coalition defeated and ended the rule of dictator Saddam.

2011: U.S. participated in international coalition to protect people of Libya and topple dictator Gaddafi.

2011 - 2014: America involved in Syria against a brutal dictator Assad, a close ally of Russia's dictator Putin.

2014: U.S. participated in defeating terrorist caliphate ISIS.

2022 - 2024: U.S. supported Ukraine against an unprovoked terrorist aggression of Putin's Russia.

And now what: America will side with the most brutal and despicable totalitarian dictator of our time?

See, you can blow and whistle from all orifices what you can't do though is to change the reality: and it will always catch up. Yes you can cuddle and smooch the fat lying baby but it comes at a cost - forgetting and leaving behind who you are, all of it, behind. Back in early 1930s they could cry that they were naive couldn't know but you couldn't claim that, with any honesty. You knew it all, everything. And our choices have price, and consequences.

[Michael Hardner]

14 minutes ago, myata said:

 

And now what: America will side with the most brutal and despicable totalitarian dictator of our time?

 

I haven't heard anybody say that something like that is going to happen. Which seems likely is that the Ukraine war will end with some territory being ceded to Russia. 

 

That is a failure though, no doubt. The United Nations and ICC have provisions against it, and it's no longer considered normal for a state to "conquer" another outright.

 

Sanctions and international opinion should continue to pressure Russia to withdraw.

[DUI_Offender]

1 hour ago, myata said:

So will America side now with the worst totalitarian aggressor dictator thug on the planet? Yes or no? Only the mirror: and remember, the reality always catches up.

Putin? Yes, Donnie loves him.

[DUI_Offender]

57 minutes ago, myata said:

1941 - 1945: America confronted dictators of the Axis.

1945 - 1990: America stood and defeated communist dictators.

1990 - 1991: America in coalition defeated dictator Saddam.

2003: America in coalition defeated and ended the rule of dictator Saddam.

2011: U.S. participated in international coalition to protect people of Libya and topple dictator Gaddafi.

2011 - 2014: America involved in Syria against a brutal dictator Assad, a close ally of Russia's dictator Putin.

2014: U.S. participated in defeating terrorist caliphate ISIS.

2022 - 2024: U.S. supported Ukraine against an unprovoked terrorist aggression of Putin's Russia.

 

 

 

w it all, everything. And our choices have price, and consequences.

Trump's foreign policy was a disaster. 

First, he abandoned the Kurdish people, and destabilised Syria by withdrawing all troops.

Then he held up aid and training to Ukraine.

China sees through Trump as a very weak leader, and will do everything possible to interfere and possibly invade Taiwan.

Finally, he withdrew troops from Afghanistan, when the US was stabilising the region 

Trump also destabilised the Israel region, by not inviting the Palestinians to his proposed peace plan, and moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, probably accelerating the 10/7 attack.

Edited December 12, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[DUI_Offender]

5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Do you have a cite?  I haven't heard that one.

"In the 21st century, the overall number of conflicts has increased, but the number of fatalities and intensity has not increased at the same rate. There are more conflicts, many of which now involve some form of external intervention.  

The average number of conflict dyads per conflict has almost doubled."

source; https://www.visionofhumanity.org/the-rise-of-endless-wars-understanding-unresolved-conflicts/#:~:text=In the 21st century%2C the,per conflict has almost doubled.

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, myata said:

So will America side now with the worst totalitarian aggressor dictator thug on the planet? Yes or no? Only the mirror: and remember, the reality always catches up.

America sides with secure borders and a better economy. That's why Harris lost and Trump won. 

Go have another beer.  

[myata]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

I haven't heard anybody say that something like that is going to happen.

Is that because you weren't following? Trump said at the meeting with the French and Ukrainian leaders that he wants a ceasefire immediately and then "negotiations". This is like a twin coin of the position of Russia's Lavrov, since mid 2022 - negotiations without returning any captured territories. What is "complete or near coincidence of positions" is called in your dictionary?

Why would anyone allow "negotiations" about giving away their internationally recognized lands?

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

war will end with some territory being ceded to Russia. 

No wrong! If that would be allowed to happen it wouldn't be the "war end". War may not end at all but what would end indeed is: 1) the international law and order and 2) the foundation and any claim of the United Nations. Because if Vlad could do that, is allowed to - who wouldn't and why, for generations or ever? Who or what's there to stop them? An easy calculation. Welcome back to the 17th century - but this time around, with nukes.

 

Edited December 12, 2024 by myata