The Notre Dame Cathedral, a monument of the Dark Ages

[blackbird]

The massive cathedral in Paris was built about 850 years ago or in the 1100s.  It has been the glory and centre of the Holy Roman Empire in France.  The massacre of the Protestant Huguenots in the late 1500s would have likely been orchestrated from meetings or gatherings in various centres of worship (churches).  The Notre Dame Cathedral being the most noteworthy and influential structure in France and Paris and quite possibly would have been a central point of rallying for the massacre.  The cathedral was there when it all began.  It may or may not have been used for organizing the massacre, but if it was not used to rally the people for the massacre, it certainly was looked upon as a monument to the authority and glory of the Holy Roman Empire/Church and in that way stirred the followers to defend the system.

"The Saint Bartholomew's Day massacre (French: Massacre de la Saint-Barthélemy) in 1572 was a targeted group of assassinations and a wave of Catholic mob violence directed against the Huguenots (French Calvinist Protestants) during the French Wars of Religion. Traditionally believed to have been instigated by Queen Catherine de' Medici, the mother of King Charles IX,^[2] the massacre started a few days after the marriage on 18 August of the king's sister Margaret to the Protestant King Henry III of Navarre. Many of the wealthiest and most prominent Huguenots had gathered in largely Catholic Paris to attend the wedding.

The massacre began in the night of 23–24 August 1572, the eve of the Feast of Saint Bartholomew the Apostle, two days after the attempted assassination of Admiral Gaspard de Coligny, the military and political leader of the Huguenots. King Charles IX ordered the killing of a group of Huguenot leaders, including Coligny, and the slaughter spread throughout Paris. Lasting several weeks in all, the massacre expanded outward to the countryside and other urban centres. Modern estimates for the number of dead across France vary widely, from 5,000 to 30,000.

The massacre marked a turning point in the French Wars of Religion. The Huguenot political movement was crippled by the loss of many of its prominent aristocratic leaders, and many rank-and-file members subsequently converted. Those who remained became increasingly radicalised. Though by no means unique, the bloodletting "was the worst of the century's religious massacres".^[3] Throughout Europe, it "printed on Protestant minds the indelible conviction that Catholicism was a bloody and treacherous religion".^{[4]  "}

"Shortly before dawn on August 24 the bell of Saint-Germain-l’Auxerrois began to toll and the massacre began. One of the first victims was Coligny, who was killed under the supervision of Henry de Guise himself. Even within the Louvre, Navarre’s attendants were slaughtered, though Navarre and Henry I de Bourbon, 2nd prince de Condé, were spared. The homes and shops of Huguenots were pillaged and their occupants brutally murdered; many bodies were thrown into the Seine. Bloodshed continued in Paris even after a royal order of August 25 to stop the killing, and it spread to the provinces. Huguenots in Rouen, Lyon, Bourges, Orléans, and Bordeaux were among the victims. Estimates of the number that perished in the disturbances, which lasted to the beginning of October, have varied from 2,000 by a Roman Catholic apologist to 70,000 by the contemporary Huguenot Maximilien de Béthune, duc de Sully, who himself barely escaped death. Modern writers put the number at 3,000 in Paris alone."

Massacre of Saint Bartholomew’s Day | Definition, Background, & Facts | Britannica

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by blackbird

[Michael Hardner]

That's your post ?  A cut/paste of a wiki page ?

[Black Dog]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

That's your post ?  A cut/paste of a wiki page ?

Catholic place of worship:

Prod house of worship:

Which way western man?

 

[Michael Hardner]

What's Prod ?  Prod-estant ?  🤔

[User]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

Which way western man?

What a stupid question. 

 

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Which way western man?

100 million Protestant Evangelicals in America

rule over the French & Indian Papists of Canada with a rod of iron

[Dougie93]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

Catholic place of worship:

the Pope in Rome taxing the poor to build a monument to Tiberius Caesar whom crucified the Nazarene

[Black Dog]

55 minutes ago, User said:

What a stupid question. 

it's a meme you dope.

[herbie]

Let's indulge our nonsensical negativism by shitting on Michaelangelo next for painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
Or how about demonstrating one's Christianity by incessantly mouthing one's hatred of Catholics?

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Let's indulge our nonsensical negativism by shitting on Michaelangelo next for painting the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.
Or how about demonstrating one's Christianity by incessantly mouthing one's hatred of Catholics?

 

The devil walketh about seeking whom he may devour.  The demons control the world and every major false religion.  This has nothing to do with hating Catholics.  Do you think disliking Islam means one hates Muslims too?

  Why pretend opposing a religious system means you are hating the followers? Only brainwashed slaves of the devil use that claim.  We know why you make that claim.  Are you some sort of Catholic?  Going by your comments, you have nothing at all that indicates you have Christian beliefs.  Perhaps you think that the Pope or priest can somehow save you.  That is a false hope.  Read the Bible and find out why.

How many people have been killed in the past 1,500 years in the name of the religion of Rome?  How many billions of dollars does Rome have, taken from the people to buy their way into heaven in the last 1,500 years?

And you think everyone should just wave off the dark history as if nothing happened.  What has changed since then?

Edited December 11, 2024 by blackbird

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

nonsensical negativism

Did the pope during WW2 ever condemn the Holocaust or Nazism and stand against it?  Doesn't appear so. 

 "printed on Protestant minds the indelible conviction that Catholicism was a bloody and treacherous religion".[4]  

"In the 20th century "Documentation related to the pope’s wartime activities has long been housed in the Vatican Archives, which remained largely closed to researchers until earlier this year. Now, historians examining newly opened files from the vast collections say they’ve found evidence, detailed in German weekly Die Ziet, that suggests Pius learned of the mass slaughter of Jews in fall 1942. "

Newly Unsealed Vatican Archives Lay Out Evidence of Pope Pius XII's Knowledge of the Holocaust | Smithsonian

The Pope's Dilemma: Pius XII Faces Atrocities and Genocide in the Second World War | Department of History

 

Edited December 11, 2024 by blackbird

[Aristides]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

[blackbird]

18 hours ago, Aristides said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rescue_of_Jews_by_Catholics_during_the_Holocaust

We know there have been isolated resistance to the Nazis in WW2, but as far the Jews were concerned, this was not the rule in Nazi occupied countries.  The Jews were transported to the death camps from all over Europe during WW2.

The history demonstrates anti-Semitism was a major problem for nearly two millenia.

quote

Antisemitism, the prejudice or discrimination against Jews, has had a long history since the ancient times. While antisemitism had already been prevalent in ancient Greece and Roman Empire, its institutionalization in European Christianity after the destruction of the ancient Jewish cultural center in Jerusalem caused two millennia of segregation, expulsions, persecutions, pogroms, genocides of Jews, which culminated in the 20th-century Holocaust in Nazi German-occupied European states, where 67% European Jews were murdered.^[1]   

 

Antisemitism in Europe in the Middle Ages was largely influenced by the Christian belief that the Jewish people were collectively responsible for the death of Jesus through the so-called blood curse of Pontius Pilate in the Gospels. Persecutions against Jews were widespread during the Crusades, beginning in 1095, when a number of communities, especially in France and the Rhineland, were massacred.^[2]

On many occasions, Jews were accused of the ritual murder of Christian children in what were called blood libels. The first known blood libel was the story of William of Norwich (d. 1144), whose murder sparked accusations of ritual murder and torture by the local Jews.^[3] The Black Death which devastated Europe in the 14th century also gave rise to widespread persecution. In the face of the terrifying spread of the plague, the Jews served as scapegoats and were accused of poisoning the wells. Many Jewish communities in western and central Europe were destroyed in a wave of violence between 1348 and 1350.^[4][5] For example, some two thousand Jews were massacred by burning in Strasbourg, in February 1349, upon a decision by the city council, before the plague had reached the city.^[6][7] In the German states a total of approximately 300 Jewish communities were destroyed during this period, because of Jews being killed or driven out.^{[8]    unquote}

Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia

[blackbird]

More information on this:

"

19th and early 20th centuries

[edit]

Antisemitic agitators in Paris burn an effigy of Mathieu Dreyfus during the Dreyfus affair. Photo believed to show the victims, mostly Jewish children, of a 1905 pogrom in Yekaterinoslav (today's Dnipro)

By the end of the 19th century a new type of antisemitism had begun to develop in Europe, racial antisemitism.^[26] It started as a part of a broader racist world view and belief of superiority of the "white race" over other "races", while existing prejudice was supported by pseudo-scientific theories such as Social Darwinism.^[27]

The main idea of racial antisemitism, as presented by racial theorists such as Joseph Arthur de Gobineau, is that the Jews are a distinct and inferior race compared to the European nations. The emphasis was on the non-European origin and culture of the Jews, meaning they were beyond redemption even if they converted to Christianity. This modern antisemitism emphasized hatred of the Jews as a race and not only due to their Jewish religion. The rise of modern antisemitism together with the rise of nationalism and the nation state brought a wave of antisemitism as Jews struggled to gain their rights as equal citizens. In Germany, this brought up the Hep-Hep riots in 1819 when the Jews of Bavaria were attacked for claiming their civic rights.

One of the most famous examples of the 19th century was the Dreyfus affair,^[28][29] when a French officer of Jewish origin, Alfred Dreyfus, was accused of high treason in 1894. The trial sparked a wave of antisemitism in France: eventually Dreyfus was found innocent of the charges in 1906. The affair greatly inspired Theodor Herzl.

In eastern Europe, religious antisemitism remained influential as the Industrial Revolution affected those areas less. During the 19th century and the beginning of the 20th century, a number of pogroms occurred in Russia, sparked by various variables such as antisemitic political movements, the assassination of Tsar Alexander II in 1881 and blood libels^[30][31] about Jews killing Christian children. The most famous blood libel was the Beilis Trial^[32][33] that took place in Kiev in 1903 when a local Jew was found innocent from the accusations of killing a Christian boy.

Another example of modern antisemitism in Europe was the conspiracy theory of Jewish world economic domination, as presented in the hoax The Protocols of the Elders of Zion^[34][35] which was first published in Russia in 1903 and became known outside Russia after the Russian Revolution of 1917. This theory was strengthened by the leading part Jews like the Rothschild family played in the European banking system. The pogroms in 1881 and after the first Russian Revolution of 1905 cost thousands of Jewish lives and more than a million migrated to America. The second Russian revolution and the civil war that came afterwards sparked a new wave of pogroms against the Jews as nationalist militias and regular armies fought over the control of the country. The casualties from the pogroms were estimated in tens of thousands dead.^[36]

The Holocaust

[edit]

Main articles: History of the Jews during World War II and The Holocaust

A wagon piled high with corpses outside the crematorium in the newly liberated Buchenwald concentration camp, 1945

The Holocaust was among the most significant events in modern Jewish history and one of the largest genocides in the history of the world. Approximately six million Jews were murdered by the Nazis, accounting for roughly 2/3 of all European Jews.

unquote

Antisemitism in Europe - Wikipedia

[Dougie93]

On 12/10/2024 at 5:19 PM, herbie said:

Or how about demonstrating one's Christianity by incessantly mouthing one's hatred of Catholics?

the Whore of Babylon takes the knee with Justin Trudeau and the Bolshevist traitors against the Crown

no surrender in the face of said Romanist tyranny

 

[blackbird]

Instead of trying to defend the indefensible, this is where we should be:

 

[eyeball]

13 hours ago, blackbird said:

The Jews were transported to the death camps from all over Europe during WW2.

The history demonstrates anti-Semitism was a major problem for nearly two millenia.

Canada sent a boatload of Jewish refugees back to Hitler too.

No charity social assistance for them I guess.

[blackbird]

This 54 minute video on youtube is worth watching:  The Vatican and the Third Reich: an Unholy Alliance

Bing Videos

 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 12/10/2024 at 7:18 PM, blackbird said:

The devil walketh about seeking whom he may devour.  The demons control the world and every major false religion.  This has nothing to do with hating Catholics.  Do you think disliking Islam means one hates Muslims too?

  Why pretend opposing a religious system means you are hating the followers? Only brainwashed slaves of the devil use that claim.  We know why you make that claim.  Are you some sort of Catholic? 

Have you been to Notre Dame? Or the great cathedrals of Italy? They are among the most extraordinary artistic achievements of Western civilization. To see the works of Renaissance masters in their original settings is still possible in many Italian churches. One doesn’t have to be religious to be moved by such beauty. I was particularly taken by this Bellini painting on a recent visit to Vicenza:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Christ_(Bellini)

 

Edited January 11 by SpankyMcFarland

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Have you been to Notre Dame? Or the great cathedrals of Italy? They are among the most extraordinary artistic achievements of Western civilization. To see the works of Renaissance masters in their original settings is still possible in many Italian churches. One doesn’t have to be religious to be moved by such beauty. I was particularly taken by this Bellini painting on a recent visit to Vicenza:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baptism_of_Christ_(Bellini)

 

Yes, of course they are beautiful, but one needs to know the truth about the history of the Roman Church and what it has done to millions of people down through the centuries.  All these beautiful cathedrals and artwork mask the dark history of the "Holy Roman church".

Perhaps do some reading about some of these things:

The Roman Inquisition which was developed by the same people that built these cathedrals, monuments, and paintings.

The Medieval Inquisition.

The Spanish Inquisition.

The 1,500 years of persecution of the Jews.

The non-action by the papacy during the Holocaust in WW2.  Aiding the escape of Nazi war criminals after WW2.

The genocide of the Huegenots in France.

The genocide in Ireland.

      The beautiful edifices paint a picture of a magnificent church, but the history tells a different story.

"

“Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity.”
– Pope Innocent III

The Inquisition was an ecclesiastical court and process of the Roman Catholic Church setup for the purpose towards the discovery and punishment of heresy which wielded immense power and brutality in medieval and early modern times. The Inquisitions function was principally assembled to repress all heretics of rights, depriving them of their estate and assets which became subject to the ownership of the Catholic treasury, with each relentlessly sought to destroy anyone who spoke, or even thought differently to the Catholic Church. This system for close to over six centuries became the legal framework throughout most of Europe that orchestrated one of the most confound religious orders in the course of mankind."

The Horrors of the Church and Its Holy Inquisition

 

Edited January 11 by blackbird

[blackbird]

9 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

Have you been to Notre Dame?

Isn't it ironic to see such a magnificent structure and think what went on around it in Europe during the centuries after it was constructed?

quote

A Chapter of the Manual is headed “of the torture” and contains these small reflections:

“The torture is not an infallible method to obtain the truth; there are some men so pusillanimous that at the first twinge of pain they will confess crimes they never committed; others there are so valiant and robust that they bear the most cruel torments. Those who have once been placed upon the rack suffer it with great courage, because their limbs accommodate themselves to it with facility or resist with force; others with charms and spells render themselves insensible, and will die before they will confess anything.”

The author gives further directions:

“When sentence of torture has been given, and while the executioner is preparing to apply it, the inquisitor and the grave persons who assist him should make fresh attempts to persuade the accused to confess the truth; the executioners and their assistants, while stripping him, should affect uneasiness, haste, and sadness, endeavoring thus to instill fear into his mind; and when he is stripped naked the inquisitors should take him aside, exhorting him to confess, and promising him his life upon condition of his doing so, provided that he is not a relapsed (one dilated a second time), because in such a case they cannot promise him that.”

The Horrors of the Church and Its Holy Inquisition

[SpankyMcFarland]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Yes, of course they are beautiful, but one needs to know the truth about the history of the Roman Church and what it has done to millions of people down through the centuries.  All these beautiful cathedrals and artwork mask the dark history of the "Holy Roman church".

Perhaps do some reading about some of these things:

The Roman Inquisition which was developed by the same people that built these cathedrals, monuments, and paintings.

The Medieval Inquisition.

The Spanish Inquisition.

The 1,500 years of persecution of the Jews.

The non-action by the papacy during the Holocaust in WW2.  Aiding the escape of Nazi war criminals after WW2.

The genocide of the Huegenots in France.

The genocide in Ireland.

      The beautiful edifices paint a picture of a magnificent church, but the history tells a different story.

"

“Anyone who attempts to construe a personal view of God which conflicts with Church dogma must be burned without pity.”
– Pope Innocent III

The Inquisition was an ecclesiastical court and process of the Roman Catholic Church setup for the purpose towards the discovery and punishment of heresy which wielded immense power and brutality in medieval and early modern times. The Inquisitions function was principally assembled to repress all heretics of rights, depriving them of their estate and assets which became subject to the ownership of the Catholic treasury, with each relentlessly sought to destroy anyone who spoke, or even thought differently to the Catholic Church. This system for close to over six centuries became the legal framework throughout most of Europe that orchestrated one of the most confound religious orders in the course of mankind."

The Horrors of the Church and Its Holy Inquisition

 

Antisemitism has been an ecumenical affliction. In later life, Luther was obsessed with the Jews. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

 

 

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Isn't it ironic to see such a magnificent structure and think what went on around it in Europe during the centuries after it was constructed?

quote

A Chapter of the Manual is headed “of the torture” and contains these small reflections:

“The torture is not an infallible method to obtain the truth; there are some men so pusillanimous that at the first twinge of pain they will confess crimes they never committed; others there are so valiant and robust that they bear the most cruel torments. Those who have once been placed upon the rack suffer it with great courage, because their limbs accommodate themselves to it with facility or resist with force; others with charms and spells render themselves insensible, and will die before they will confess anything.”

The author gives further directions:

“When sentence of torture has been given, and while the executioner is preparing to apply it, the inquisitor and the grave persons who assist him should make fresh attempts to persuade the accused to confess the truth; the executioners and their assistants, while stripping him, should affect uneasiness, haste, and sadness, endeavoring thus to instill fear into his mind; and when he is stripped naked the inquisitors should take him aside, exhorting him to confess, and promising him his life upon condition of his doing so, provided that he is not a relapsed (one dilated a second time), because in such a case they cannot promise him that.”

The Horrors of the Church and Its Holy Inquisition

I presume you know that Catholics were persecuted as well? 

[blackbird]

On 1/11/2025 at 1:01 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Antisemitism has been an ecumenical affliction. In later life, Luther was obsessed with the Jews. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_and_antisemitism

 

 

I presume you know that Catholics were persecuted as well? 

Yes, I know Luther became anti-Semitic.  Much of Europe was anti-Semitic for 1,500 years.

Yes, Catholics were persecuted in England in the 1500s in the Reformation there and apparently a significant number lost their lives and property.

However, this pales in comparison to the six hundred years of the Inquisition run by Rome in a number of countries in Europe.  Don't forget Rome was the dominant religion and ruled with an iron fist for over a thousand years in Europe. 

There were also some genocides against religious groups who refused to bow to Rome, such as the Huguenots in France.

[Michael Hardner]

I have prayed there.

I'm not ashamed...

Humanity lurches forward sometimes by, and sometimes in spite of religion.

 

You will always find more people to agree on basic humanistic points than cultural dictates of any religion.  And in my experience, most religious people are humanists and very tolerant.

[blackbird]

14 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

You will always find more people to agree on basic humanistic points than cultural dictates of any religion.  And in my experience, most religious people are humanists and very tolerant.

With all due respect, It matters not what secular humanism believes or tells you.  What matters is what God says in his written revelation, the Holy Bible.  In English, that is the King James Bible, which is based on the Received Text.   The Received Text is in agreement with the majority of copies of manuscripts handed down through the early church.

We know there are many false religions or belief systems in the world.  So how does one determine which belief is correct?  The answer is God's revelation, the Bible.  Not by fallible humans such as Popes, church councils, tradition, or people who claim they had some mystical experience and received a message from God which contradicts what has been believed and accepted in Holy Scripture.  There has to be a way to separate what is true from what is false.  That way is through the study of Holy Scripture and faith in God's inerrant, preserved written revelation.

"20  To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. " Isaiah 8:20 KJV

"1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. 2  And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred. 3  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. 4  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God."  Matthew 4:1-4 KJV

The apostle Paul warned the Colossians against philosophies, empty deceit, and traditions of men in Colossains 2:8-23  KJV.

"8  Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. {rudiments: or, elements} {make a prey: or, seduce you, or, lead you astray} 9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10  And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: 11  In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: 12  Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. "

Here is a 1 hr 5 min audio message on this warning against philosophy, empty deceit, and traditions of men.

Bing Videos

 

Edited January 13 by blackbird