LIV = Low Information Voters

[August1991]

Is that the term?

[Radiorum]

Voters on the left tend to be better-educated and bigger consumers of news information than voters on the right.

There tends to be an anti-intellectual bias on the right, especially amoung the religious.

How else to explain that a lot of fundamentalist Christians view a belief in evolution and climate change as sins.

In fact, a rejection of "intellectual elites" may have cost Harris the election. 

 

 

 

 

[herbie]

Certainly seems that the political right has a lock on the illiterati demographic.

Edited December 3, 2024 by herbie

[CdnFox]

On 12/2/2024 at 9:22 AM, Radiorum said:

Voters on the left tend to be better-educated and bigger consumers of news information than voters on the right.

There tends to be an anti-intellectual bias on the right, especially amoung the religious.

 

Not better educated. They tend to have gone through formal education more. Which makes sense as we know the colleges and universities these days are left-wing cesspits.

But as a number of studies have now shown democrat voters are also far more likely to have mental health issues, especially the younger ones and especially the females where in some cases more than 50% to report having been advised by a medical professional that they have mental health issues.

Quote

 

How else to explain that a lot of fundamentalist Christians view a belief in evolution and climate change as sins.

In fact, a rejection of "intellectual elites" may have cost Harris the election. 

 

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but a hell of a lot of people on the left are Christians or Muslims. And they still believe those same things.

This is especially true in Canada.

Occasionally people on the left get really weird ideas about the demographics involved with both left-wing and right-wing politics. The elite and the Diehard radical left have an image of what left-wing voters are like and it very often has nothing to do with reality. The things that are important to those voters are not the things you thought they were.

As kammy just discovered to her horror

Edited December 4, 2024 by CdnFox

[Radiorum]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Not better educated. They tend to have gone through formal education more.

Not better educated, they just have more education. Right. Got it.

 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But as a number of studies have now shown democrat voters are also far more likely to have mental health issues

This is inaccurate. Mental health issues are a bipartisan issue, indistinguishable across party lines.

The data showed 25.2% of Democrats screened positive for depression, compared with 23% of Independents and 20.5% of Republicans. These differences were not statistically significant, meaning that depression does not appear to discriminate by political belief. 

Where there is a difference is access to mental health care and the willingness to seek care.

the researchers found that Republicans were significantly less likely than both their Democratic and Independent counterparts to have sought help from a mental health care provider in the past 12 months. The study also showed that, among those with depressive symptoms, 73.9% of Republicans had unmet mental health care needs, versus 58.9% for Democrats and 58% Independents. 

So, there's a lot more untreated Republicans.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2024/new-study-shows-bipartisan-struggles-with-depression-reveals-gaps-in-mental-health-care-access

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

especially the younger ones and especially the females where in some cases more than 50% to report having been advised by a medical professional that they have mental health issues.

You made this up. And it's the patient who reports, not the other way around.

 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry to burst your bubble kid but a hell of a lot of people on the left are Christians or Muslims. And they still believe those same things.

Christians on the Left are different from Christians on the Right.

While conservative evangelicalism tends to focus on sin, repentance, and salvation, the Christian Left identify Christ’s radical love and inclusion for marginalized people as the locus of their faith. 

Liberal Christians are more likely to “frame conversations around issues such as environmental action, LGBTQ+ rights, women’s reproductive health, immigration, racial equality, affordable housing, and wealth disparity.”

https://www.yesmagazine.org/social-justice/2019/12/24/political-christian-belief

And as far as accepting the theory of evolution as a valid scientific theory, only 24% of Evangelical Christians agree that evolution is the best explanation for the origin of human life on earth.

This number jumps to a majority of mainline Protestants and Catholics.

In fact, did you know that there is an association called The Pontifical Academy of Sciences?

Here’s a link to their page listing articles (209 of them) about evolution:

https://www.pas.va/en/search.html?q=evolution

 

[CdnFox]

9 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Not better educated, they just have more education. Right. Got it.

 

LOL you'd have to be pretty stupid and uneducated to think that academic education is the only type of education out there   LOLOL  

I've learned a hell of a lot more outside of University and I did getting my degree. And I suppose electricians are all stupid people with no brains or education? etc etc?

It is the height of arrogance and ignorance to suggest that only people that got education the way that you like are educated.

13 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

This is inaccurate. Mental health issues are a bipartisan issue, indistinguishable across party lines.

Nope. 

Pew Research shows democrats more likely to have mental health issues.

Why Depression Rates Are Higher Among Liberals | Columbia Magazine

How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives - American Affairs Journal

New Pew Study; White Liberals More Likely To Have Mental Problems

Distressed Democrats and relaxed Republicans? Partisanship and mental health during the COVID-19 pandemic - PMC

 

There have been the number of studies between 2020 and 2023 and they all come back with almost identical results.

Across every age range and both sexes democrats are more likely to have serious mental health issues as diagnosed by a professional. It's the very worst with young women.

Sorry kiddo.  It's not access to care or willingness to seek it. And the bias in the One study you posted doesn't explain the massive differences in the rest of the studies.

19 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

You made this up

Sure. Me and Pew research just made it up. Along with the other studies that showed exactly the same thing.

I see that now that you've realized you're wrong you're going back to your being a lying sack of crap routine where you just deny facts and science. Pathetic

21 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Christians on the Left are different from Christians on the Right.

Sure because all lefties are exactly the same and all people on the right are exactly the same. You can't think of them as individuals or anything 🙄

And as evidence you post a woke left blogest on a woke left media publication. Really? Do you need me to explain why that just makes you look bad? I thought you had a university education

24 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

And as far as accepting the theory of evolution as a valid scientific theory, only 24% of Evangelical Christians agree that evolution is the best explanation for the origin of human life on earth.

That's nice but irrelevant. You started off talking about christians and Fundamentalist christians  now you're moving the goal post    To being exclusively evangelical christians

Here's a hint kid, if you have to keep swapping terms for your point to make sense then you've probably screwed up

Basically your entire argument is based on prejudice and bigotry. You feel that only education that comes from a learning institution is valid when in fact more and more these days that education is of lower and lower quality and more and more focused on politics and ideology and less and less on learning. You're dismissive and hateful for anybody that has a viewpoint that's different than your own. You ignore clear science and post opinion blog articles to try and defend your point

 

You are living proof that simply going to school does not make you more intelligent. Your arguments have been poorly formed, horribly documented and cited.  are essentially the very definition of confirmation bias at work I make actual thinking people think poorly of you.  THIS is what you chose to present as an example of how much more 'educated' university grads are?  F-. 

 

[BlahTheCanuck]

Nearly everyone who follows politics is a 'low information voter' in some issues and a 'high information voter' in others - it's impossible to know everything and have an in-depth grasp on every issue.  Post-secondary education (college, university, etc.) isn't the only type of knowledge or information, which is why the fact that left-leaning voters are more university-educated is meaningless. Just as an example, farmers know more about running a farm than someone with a PhD who's never worked on a farm. Business owners know more about running a business than someone with a PhD who has never run a business. If people who spend their entire lives in academia were considered the most knowledgeable about everything, the things we would achieve as a society would be very limited. That's not to say post-secondary education isn't valuable - it definitely is in certain areas, to achieve success. But there are many other areas in life where you don't need a post-secondary education to achieve success.

[Legato]

On 12/2/2024 at 12:22 PM, Radiorum said:

Voters on the left tend to be better-educated and bigger consumers of news information than voters on the right.

 

 

 

 

 

Is this the news academics consume?

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Legato said:

Is this the news academics consume?

 

If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.

 Mark Twain. 

interestingly enough, mark was a man who never went to University, but was awarded to University degrees later on when it was realized that he was as smart or smarter as those who had actually attended

In your face radiorum    

[Legato]

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

If you don't read the newspaper, you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed.

 Mark Twain. 

interestingly enough, mark was a man who never went to University, but was awarded to University degrees later on when it was realized that he was as smart or smarter as those who had actually attended

In your face radiorum    

Another...

Don’t let schooling interfere with your education.’ – Mark Twain

[Radiorum]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It is the height of arrogance and ignorance to suggest that only people that got education the way that you like are educated.

The more you read, the more perspectives you are exposed to, the bigger is your picture.

 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

ew Research shows democrats more likely to have mental health issues.

Why Depression Rates Are Higher Among Liberals | Columbia Magazine

How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives - American Affairs Journal

New Pew Study; White Liberals More Likely To Have Mental Problems

Distressed Democrats and relaxed Republicans? Partisanship and mental health during the COVID-19 pandemic - PMC

 

 

Wow, maybe it's true, that ignorance is bliss.

 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

F-. 

Lol. 

[CdnFox]

48 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

The more you read, the more perspectives you are exposed to, the bigger is your picture.

I get where you're going with that but your statement is not accurate. If anything people can confuse themselves by reading more and more. Further if you're reading with a confirmation bias already in place the actual information filtered through doesn't tend to be useful. And then we get into comprehension issues

But regardless of that, you'd be a fool to think that a) Post-secondary education facilities are the only place people are able to read in and b) That post-secondary education facilities don't already choose the reading materials to present a linear viewpoint with the deliberate intent of having the students arrive at a conclusion, rather than to explore a wide base of opinions and diverse thoughts. This is always been true to some degree but now it's gotten to the point of Ridiculousness. Do you remember when a student was threatened with a dire consequence for showing a small portion of a debate between Jordan Peterson and another University Professor put on by the University to a class because it clashed with the universities position on trans issues? I do. And that's one example

52 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Wow, maybe it's true, that ignorance is bliss.

Honesty and a firm grasp on reality is bliss. Self delusion is less so. The problem with universities and post-secondary education facilities these days is they promote self delusion. And the problem with democrats is they tend to buy into that.

For example you have deluded yourself to believe the only possible place to gain education or knowledge or understanding is in a post-educational facility, and you go so far as to say that in the day and age of the internet. It's been a long time since I've been in University but I regularly pull down research papers and documents on subjects today ranging from history to medicine to politics I read the actual source material with no problem. And I could do that whether I'd been to University or not

You're delusions cause you to discount and dismiss information that is factual and scientifically accurate. It forces you to dismiss opinions and thoughts of people that you don't feel have a certification that meets your requirements rather than whether or not they are knowledgeable. And it makes you susceptible to accepting information from sources based on their confirmation with your bias rather than the accuracy of their information.

 

In other words if we're taking you as a control sample, there's no reason to believe that going to University or post-secondary education make somebody any better informed. Especially outside of their own area of study

In my books the average electrician is probably better suited to actually making informed decisions

 

[Michael Hardner]

Education is a good thing.

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Education is a good thing.

Some education is a good thing. Unfortunately most of what happens in universities these days is re-education.

[eyeball]

23 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Education is a good thing.

In the right setting sure.  My last stab at the public school system at Jarvis Secondary in Toronto was characterized by 50 students per class with little more to do than throw spitballs and paper airplanes around while teachers had meltdowns trying to reign in the chaos. A complete waste of time in other words. I dropped out, joined the workforce and came out west a couple years after that and started logging and fishing. I took a number of different college and university courses related to other industries and things I got involved in later in life.  It's worked out, better than it certainly could have been - I didn't get killed along the way like a few of my old buddies.

[Radiorum]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

For example you have deluded yourself to believe the only possible place to gain education or knowledge or understanding is in a post-educational facility,

I don't think I said that, and if you inferred it, i apologize for the confusion.

I firmly believe education and learning are a life-long mission. Learning should never stop. I'm constantly reading new things from a variety of sources that expand my knowledge base. I especially enjoy scientific non-fiction that helps me understand human nature, as well as political readings.

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

discount and dismiss information that is factual and scientifically accurate.

 

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

confirmation with your bias

 

I mentioned that I read the 165-page court filing that laid out all the evidence against Trump in his bid to overturn the 2020 election. How many Trump supporters do you think will bother to read it?

 

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

In my books the average electrician is probably better suited to actually making informed decisions

You need to be very intelligent to be an electrician.

[Michael Hardner]

47 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

 You need to be very intelligent to be an electrician.

Agreed.

You need to be very intelligent and open minded to embrace wisdom and intelligence that comes from other sources than yours.

This is why I have disdain for people who ignore arguments from intelligent folks who disagree with them.

That's not to say chatting with trolls is useful.

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

I don't think I said that, and if you inferred it, i apologize for the confusion.

Nobody said you said it. I'm pointing it out to you.

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

I firmly believe education and learning are a life-long mission

I would tend to agree with this. Which is why I look down on your suggestion that somehow four out of those 80 years that the average person is alive and competent mentally or somehow the only ones that have meaning.

Formal academic facilities are far from the only way people acquire knowledge and information, and these days it's Highly Questionable if they are even terribly effective for that. They seem to be more about activism then learning.

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

mentioned that I read the 165-page court filing that laid out all the evidence against Trump in his bid to overturn the 2020 election. How many Trump supporters do you think will bother to read it?

How many democrats supporters or trump haters do you think did? If you go back on this forum you will see that I frequently call people out for not reading the documentation that they are discussing, and I tend to especially if it's something that matters. But I absolutely guarantee you that on both sides of the fence we are in the tiny tiny tiny minority. 

So how is this relevant?

2 hours ago, Radiorum said:

You need to be very intelligent to be an electrician.

That's not possible according to you, no University  required  

 

At the end of the day there are a handful of trades that absolutely rely on formal academic training. Lawyers, doctors, etc. But the vast majority of the University degrees are not providing particularly Effective Education on a broad scale and are mostly focused on activism and socio-political issues. The most common degrees these days is I understand it are social sciences, and I'm sorry but four years of study about lesbian dance theory is not making you any more informed or more capable of making intelligent decisions than the electrician

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Agreed.

You need to be very intelligent and open minded to embrace wisdom and intelligence that comes from other sources than yours.

This is why I have disdain for people who ignore arguments from intelligent folks who disagree with them.

That's not to say chatting with trolls is useful.

 

Pretty much all you do is ignore arguments from intelligent folks who disagree with you

[Radiorum]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

your suggestion that somehow four out of those 80 years that the average person is alive and competent mentally or somehow the only ones that have meaning.

I merely pointed out that Democrats are more educated than Republicans. This is a fact. And I venture to make the suggestion that those who seek education are more likely to seek it throughout their lives.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

the only way people acquire knowledge and information

But, where are people acquiring their knowledge? When asked about the news sources they trust, the only sources that Republicans trusted more than Democrats were Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, and Breitbart News - all notorious for their conspiracy theories and misinformation.  

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

So how is this relevant?

It's about educating yourself to the facts.

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

That's not possible according to you, no University  required

Nuh-huh. I've known a lot of very intelligent tradesmen in my time.

 

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I merely pointed out that Democrats are more educated than Republicans. This is a fact.

 

Well it isn't a fact as we just proven.

What you can demonstrate is that democrats are more likely to attend college or university. That in no way shape or form means they are more educated. And we just had that discussion 10 seconds ago

And here you are back lying about it. Which  demonstrates strongly that even you don't believe it

As you noted education is a lifelong process and while attending a university for less than 5 percent of your life can be a good thing it by no means makes you 'more educated' for the most part, except possibly strictly within your field of specific study and even then that's questionable these days. 

11 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

But, where are people acquiring their knowledge? When asked about the news sources they trust, the only sources that Republicans trusted more than Democrats were Fox News, Newsmax, OAN, and Breitbart News - all notorious for their conspiracy theories and misinformation.  

No more so than cnn, nbc, abc npr etc ...  all horribly bias.  And while republicans have a LITTLE trust for newsmax etc (very little) democrats have MASSIVE trust in known bias misleading dishonest media.

So what you're saying is that democrats blindly trust new sources whereas republicans are vastly more likely to not trust the new sources implicitly. Even fox news doesn't get a ton of trust compared to what the democrats feel towards their own biased sources

That means republicans question more. They don't believe everything they see. They are more likely to want more evidence before they agree with something.

That is a good thing. That means they are more likely to be well informed than the democrats. Your own source just proved the democrats are less well informed than republicans because they don't question bias new sources

So it sounds like Republicans get their news from everywhere and trust nothing whereas democrats get their news from bias sources and trusted implicitly. What were you saying about education?

17 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Nuh-huh. I've known a lot of very intelligent tradesmen in my time.

Well you must be lying because if they didn't go to university then they must be stupid. That is the premise of your entire argument here. Your whole line of reasoning is that people that went to University are better educated and informed.

I don't understand how you can expect anyone to take you seriously. You started doing a little better there for a bit but you're falling back into your completely dishonest and Retarded logic again. 

[Michael Hardner]

31 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

 

Nuh-huh. I've known a lot of very intelligent tradesmen in my time.

 

Me too.  In my family for example.  My grandfather worked with his hands and read books at night.

No snobbery, just a distaste for ignorance.

[Radiorum]

18 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No more so than cnn, nbc, abc npr etc ...  all horribly bias.  And while republicans have a LITTLE trust for newsmax etc (very little) democrats have MASSIVE trust in known bias misleading dishonest media.

I have to say, I see through CNN, and do not rely on them for my information.

I can only take CNN in very small doses.

But that right-wing bubbles exist cannot be denied.

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That means republicans question more.

BIG LOL! Trump says it, and it is true.

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So it sounds like Republicans get their news from everywhere and trust nothing whereas democrats get their news from bias sources and trusted implicitly.

No, you have misinterpreted. Democrats trust a greater number of sources.

21 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That is the premise of your entire argument here. Your whole line of reasoning

Quit making assumptions about me. It's annoying.

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

I have to say, I see through CNN, and do not rely on them for my information.

That's great. Then according to your posted information you share more in common with the republicans than you do with the democrats when it comes to how you educate yourself.

Honestly I just don't believe anybody I tend to look at multiple sources to eliminate as much of the crap as possible

Quote

But that right-wing bubbles exist cannot be denied.

According to the information you provided a lot less than left wing bubbles.

There's no doubt that there are people on both sides who have failed to educate themselves properly or have fallen into the Trap of tribalism or echo chambers. But that's a little different than what we were talking about. And it does seem to be a stronger tendency on the left versus the right at this point in history

48 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

BIG LOL! Trump says it, and it is true.

 I get that your echo chamber tells you that this is how it works but it really isn't. In fact the bowling Industries pretty strongly that most republicans don't believe that trump can be taken at face value. He grossly overstates or exaggerates his positions and the facts on a regular basis and people know it. Instead they tend to take the general meaning of what he's saying and discount the inaccuracies. And when you do that he's not often wrong. 

Are they really eating cats and dogs? Well technically yes but really no.  But those migrants ARE a problem and creating serious issues in their community and that was the gist of it and people accept that. Can you really 'turn on the taps' in BC and provide water to california tomorrow? No chance  but people get that he means there's a source of water that could be accessed to solve a problem over time. 

Is Kammy truly a communist? No, but she is a radical left activist type and very socialistic and authoritarian. Etc etc. 

Everyone gets this about trump and they factor it in when listening to him. 

57 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

No, you have misinterpreted. Democrats trust a greater number of sources.

I haven't at all. Democrats trust left wing sources to a VAST degree.  Republicans trust almost no one and even when they do they don't trust them very much. 

You screwed that up entirely kid.  You did a few web searches trying to support an opinion you'd come to WITHOUT facts and then misinterpreted what the data you found meant because you were blinded by your confirmation bias. 

What you posted shows that democrats will believe ANYONE who says things they like to a HUGE degree, while republicans question everything. You strengthened my position, not your own. 

59 minutes ago, Radiorum said:

Quit making assumptions about me. It's annoying.

Are you stupid or something? there was no assumption about you there, I correctly and accurately stated what the position that you have presented was and there's no assumption about it, that's simple fact.  If you say the sky is blue and i say 'your stated position is that the sky is blue",  that's neither an assumption or anything and it's not about you, it's about your position. 

Yeash. 

If you find having your own position stated annoying then you need to have better positions. 

[impartialobserver]

Low information voters are a fact of life no matter the time nor place. Just because the content is out there does not mean that folks will access it and actually understand it.