Will Trump destroy NATO?

[DUI_Offender]

Some of Trump's inner circle have made statements since 2020, that state that trump wanted to leave NATO. It's no secret Trump is not a fan of the alliance.  It is believed that if he won in 2020, he would have pulled the US out of NATO. Will he do it between 2025-29?

[gatomontes99]

50 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Some of Trump's inner circle have made statements since 2020, that state that trump wanted to leave NATO. It's no secret Trump is not a fan of the alliance.  It is believed that if he won in 2020, he would have pulled the US out of NATO. Will he do it between 2025-29?

I know NATO was formed to be a defense against Russia, but let's game play out the scenario where we in item them in, with certain stipulations. I think that would have the possibility of achieving the outcome we want, even if it hurts the feelings of some.

[DUI_Offender]

Just now, gatomontes99 said:

I know NATO was formed to be a defense against Russia, but let's game play out the scenario where we in item them in, with certain stipulations. 

Protecting NATO countries and others against Russian aggression is more important than ever, especially with Russian infiltrating citizens of Democratic countries and spreading misinformation. In canada the leader of the Conservatives, and independant "journalists" have been compromised.

It's time to increase criminal penalties against people working for Russia, and counter Russian misinformation with hackers and computer experts. We have to join together to defeat the Russian menace, as it is worse than ever. 

[gatomontes99]

1 minute ago, DUI_Offender said:

Protecting NATO countries and others against Russian aggression is more important than ever, especially with Russian infiltrating citizens of Democratic countries and spreading misinformation. In canada the leader of the Conservatives, and independant "journalists" have been compromised.

It's time to increase criminal penalties against people working for Russia, and counter Russian misinformation with hackers and computer experts. We have to join together to defeat the Russian menace, as it is worse than ever. 

And what do they do if we increase penalties against them? Does Russia suddenly realize that is bad?

Why do you think they are motivated to learn what the countries that are aligned against them are thinking?

[DUI_Offender]

1 minute ago, gatomontes99 said:

And what do they do if we increase penalties against them? Does Russia suddenly realize that is bad?

Why do you think they are motivated to learn what the countries that are aligned against them are thinking?

gatomontes99, you ahve been compromised by Russian misinformation, as have millions of Americans. The best thing to do, is to go to war against the people like Trump who are in bed with the Russians. Then, and only then, can we de-Russify the population, similar to what was done with the German denazification programs following WW2.

It is a sad day, when so many have been brainwashed to think that trump and Putin have our best interests in mind.

[ironstone]

6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

It's time to increase criminal penalties against people working for Russia, and counter Russian misinformation with hackers and computer experts. We have to join together to defeat the Russian menace, as it is worse than ever.

But the Biden family got money from Russia so why was that never a concern?

I'm no fan of Russia or Putin but China is surely the bigger threat.

As for NATO, I suspect that Trump will just put pressure on the other members to reach the 2% target.

[DUI_Offender]

20 minutes ago, ironstone said:

But the Biden family got money from Russia so why was that never a concern?

I'm no fan of Russia or Putin but China is surely the bigger threat.

As for NATO, I suspect that Trump will just put pressure on the other members to reach the 2% target.

 

Saying Biden was compromised by Russia, is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.

Russia has always been a bigger threat to American/European interests than China for centuries.

Edited November 6 by DUI_Offender

[Legato]

6 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

 

Saying Biden was compromised by Russia, is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.

Russia has always been a bigger threat to American/European interests than China for centuries.

https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-releases-third-bank-memo-detailing-payments-to-the-bidens-from-russia-kazakhstan-and-ukraine/

[gatomontes99]

32 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

gatomontes99, you ahve been compromised by Russian misinformation, as have millions of Americans. The best thing to do, is to go to war against the people like Trump who are in bed with the Russians. Then, and only then, can we de-Russify the population, similar to what was done with the German denazification programs following WW2.

It is a sad day, when so many have been brainwashed to think that trump and Putin have our best interests in mind.

I asked you to game play it. You aren't playing. You are just digging in.

First, we have to define what we want. Personally, I want no hostility. I don't need Russia to be submissive to get it.

Let's say we flipped the script. Let's say Russia partnered with Canada and Mexico and their entire reason for their existence is to be ready to destroy us if we don't fall on line. Would we spy on Mexico, Canada and Russia?

Of course we would. I'm not excusing them. I'm explaining their motivation. We can't solve problems and we can't manipulate outcomes if we don't take the time to understand or consider what the other side will think and do.

Lets say we made Russia an ally. They would get benefits that would disappear if they did anything to cause distrust. Would they still spy? Yes, of course. But would they meddle as much? Probably not.

What happens to China if Russia aligns with us? Can they invade Taiwan? Maybe. But it would be a lot harder for them. We could use our leverage to cool the relationship between Iran, Russia and North Korea. 

Russia is a lynch pin that might start a chain reaction in our favor. It might not. But that's the path I wanted to explore. We can explore those possibilities without actually supporting it.

But you can't. You have to go straight to the personal attacks. So there is no point in continuing this conversation.

Edited November 6 by gatomontes99

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Some of Trump's inner circle have made statements since 2020, that state that trump wanted to leave NATO. It's no secret Trump is not a fan of the alliance.  It is believed that if he won in 2020, he would have pulled the US out of NATO. Will he do it between 2025-29?

NATO is fine when it's not woke. My hope is that Trump makes at least a half assed attempt to let those retards shed the woke agenda, and then we can get back for lunch and see whether they made sufficient progress. 

[User]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Some of Trump's inner circle have made statements since 2020, that state that trump wanted to leave NATO. It's no secret Trump is not a fan of the alliance.  It is believed that if he won in 2020, he would have pulled the US out of NATO. Will he do it between 2025-29?

You are so full of crap. 

Lets see these comments claiming he wants to leave NATO. 

Lets see these comments that Trump is not a fan of the alliance.

Who believed he would have pulled out in 2020?

 

[DUI_Offender]

7 minutes ago, Legato said:

https://oversight.house.gov/release/comer-releases-third-bank-memo-detailing-payments-to-the-bidens-from-russia-kazakhstan-and-ukraine/

thats HUNTER BIDEN

[Legato]

2 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

thats HUNTER BIDEN

Biden's plural.

[ironstone]

45 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

thats HUNTER BIDEN

Why would any foreign interest want to pay Hunter Biden, if not for influence with his dad?

Hunter was literally shaking down the Chinese with a phone call.

https://www.newsweek.com/hunter-biden-allegedly-threatened-chinese-official-fathers-power-1808567

For you to suggest there was no connection between Hunter getting millions because of his father is preposterous.

[CdnFox]

Nobody will be destroying NATO

[West]

Hopefully NATO gets severely overhauled. The bigger threat to the west is China and Iran anyway

[Matthew]

3 hours ago, gatomontes99 said:

What happens to China if Russia aligns with us?

Our national policy between 1991 and 2014 was to try to get Russia to align with us by incorporating them into the capitalist liberal-democracy realm. It failed because Putin wanted authoritarianism and imperialist expansionism.

Trump is functionally a Russian asset and part of their own national policy of trying to get the US to align with them by abandoning our democratic values and our powerful post-WWII military alliance. Once Trump reduces NATO and thus marginalizes US power abroad, then China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will be better positioned do whatever they want. I gaurantee you these leaders are popping corks today.

Edited November 6 by Matthew

[CdnFox]

Just now, Matthew said:

Our national policy between 1991 and 2014 was to try to get Russia to align with us by incorporating them into the capitalist liberal-democracy realm. It failed because Putin wanted authoritarianism and imperialist expansionism.

 

Yes and no. It's a lot more complicated than that and the united states unfortunately made a number of bad decisions where they didn't give Russia anything and advance their own interests. This made Russia look weak to other Russians and they were primed for a change. And even that's a little simplistic, it was complicated

Quote

Trump is functionally a Russian asset and part of their own national policy of trying to get the US to align with them by abandoning our powerful post-WWII military alliance. Once Trump reduces NATO and thus marginalizes US power abroad, then China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will be better positioned do whatever they want. I gaurantee you these leaders are popping corks today.

It's lies like that that just cost you the election.

[Matthew]

Just now, CdnFox said:

Yes and no. It's a lot more complicated than that and the united states unfortunately made a number of bad decisions where they didn't give Russia anything and advance their own interests. This made Russia look weak to other Russians and they were primed for a change. And even that's a little simplistic, it was complicated

It's lies like that that just cost you the election.

Let me know when you have a fact to work with.

[gatomontes99]

3 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Our national policy between 1991 and 2014 was to try to get Russia to align with us by incorporating them into the capitalist liberal-democracy realm. It failed because Putin wanted authoritarianism and imperialist expansionism.

Trump is functionally a Russian asset and part of their own national policy of trying to get the US to align with them by abandoning our democratic values and our powerful post-WWII military alliance. Once Trump reduces NATO and thus marginalizes US power abroad, then China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran will be better positioned do whatever they want. I gaurantee you these leaders are popping corks today.

 

C'mon man. Trump ain't no Russian asset. Just stop. He did a lot of things that Russia didn't like. Trump isn't an authoritarian just because he did things you didn't like. You aren't even worth talking to if you are going to be this ridiculous.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, Matthew said:

Let me know when you have a fact to work with.

Those were facts kiddo    You being completely buthurt over losing an election that you absolutely deserve to lose in every sense of the word does not change that. And if you were able to recognize what a fact was in the first place you probably wouldn't have lost.

[Matthew]

2 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said:

Trump ain't no Russian asset.

He functions as one, perhaps just out of sheer bumbling ignorance. His siding with Putin at the Helsinki 2018 conference was revealing. He distanced us diplomatically from every one of our democratic allies. He weakened NATO. He weakened our position against Iran. He weakened our position against North Korea. He's come down as being essentially anti-Ukraine. These are all things Russia wants. I'm sure there are a few things he did that they disliked but overall Trump's foreign policy last time was more than Putin's wildest wet dream.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Matthew said:

He functions as one, perhaps just out of sheer bumbling ignorance. His siding with Putin at the Helsinki 2018 conference was revealing. He distanced us diplomatically from every one of our democratic allies. He weakened NATO. He weakened our position against Iran. He weakened our position against North Korea. He's come down as being essentially anti-Ukraine. These are all things Russia wants. I'm sure there are a few things he did that they disliked but overall Trump's foreign policy last time was more than Putin's wildest wet dream.

Most of that isn't true. If anything he browbeat the NATO allies into spending what they're supposed to. The NATO alliance is stronger today than it's ever been and that certainly isn't Biden's doing.

And no, he didn't give Russia anything. Other than perhaps a diplomatic victory in the sense that trump went there and said nice things about him

Again, promoting lies about trump is what cost you the election. You have to start making rational reasonable arguments or else you're going to have another republican in power in 4 years and I doubt you like him any better than you like trump

[Matthew]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

The NATO alliance is stronger today

By what measure are you referring to?

Trump refused to confirm US commitment to article 5 of the nato treaty, which is something all presidents do. Failing to do this itself weakened the alliance. Its the US saying "we may not have your back."

After Trump, the US has once again coordinated support among NATO allies in support of Ukraine, and actually helped expand the alliance to include Finland and Sweden. Meanwhile Trump's inner circle proposed a "dormant nato" policy idea, suggesting that the US take a back seat role and only ever help if it becomes an emergency, which again is akin to weakening the actual power of the alliance that we lead.

Edited November 6 by Matthew

[DUI_Offender]

1 hour ago, Matthew said:

Let me know when you have a fact to work with.

CdnFox is allergic to facts. He breaks out in hives when confronted with them.

Edited November 6 by DUI_Offender