Are you a man or a woman?

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, phoenyx75 said:

1. Ah, so you are part of these some I was referring to. Why do you believe this?

2. Putting what you said previously regarding homosexuals and kids, it seems that you believe that being homosexual and/or trans are wrong behaviours? If so, why?

1. I'm part of the sane group.  

2. The homosexual agenda, for starters. 

Are you familiar with the book "After the Ball"?  

 

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:02 PM, User said:

  

On 10/27/2024 at 12:01 PM, phoenyx75 said:

Words can have any meaning we wish. I think a line from the well known science fiction author Frank Herbert is apt here:

**

"Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build."

**

Source:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44439415-god-emperor-of-dune

Why did you just admit to being a pedophile AGAIN?

OMG. 

I have once again reported you for harassment.

[Yakuda]

On 10/21/2024 at 12:18 PM, Rebound said:

Why are you so obsessed with sex?

Three percent of American teens identify as trans.  I am not convinced that simply telling them they aren’t will remedy their situation. We certainly know that people cannot “pray the gay away.”  
 

Trans people freak me out.  And they probably freak you out.  But that’s our problem, not their problem. They aren’t the way they are because they want us to be offended or disgusted or whatever. 

Why can't you answer a simple question? You need a urologist to tell you when to pee don't you? 

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:04 PM, Deluge said:

On 10/27/2024 at 12:01 PM, phoenyx75 said:

Words can have any meaning we wish. I think a line from the well known science fiction author Frank Herbert is apt here:

**

"Words can carry any burden we wish. All that's required is agreement and a tradition upon which to build."

**

Source:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44439415-god-emperor-of-dune

But it's best to keep the meaning of words as universal as possible. That way we don't have to let pervert degenerates like Bill Clinton confuse the word "is".  

I don't know how Bill Clinton allegedly used the word "is", but there are a fair amount of people who now include trans people into the definitions of the gender they identify with and I personally think that's a good thing. As mentioned elsewhere, I still think it's good to be able to differentiate between people who are biologically of a given gender (what some call "sex") and those who only identify as said gender, such as for sports competitions that wish to only have people of the female biological gender involved in said competition.

Edited October 31, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Yakuda]

On 10/21/2024 at 3:15 PM, robosmith said:

Figures that you would prefer to keep kids IGNORANT OF REALITY, so they don't discriminate AGAINST YOU. LMAO

Instead you SHAME the ones who FEEL like they're in the WRONG BODY. 🤮

What reality? If people with XX chromosomes aren't women then reality is impossible. You people just talk out of your a$$es for a narrative. 

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:08 PM, CdnFox said:

On 10/27/2024 at 5:29 AM, phoenyx75 said:

We all have the right to define terms the way we want to. If we want to define women as both biological women and trans women, we can do so.

But as a culture based on individual rights, if you make that argument on a national or cultural level and you have to also allow for it on a personal level. Which means you have to give individuals the freedom to define men or women biologically exclusively if that's what they want.

 

What I find rather ironic is that I actually agreed with what you're saying above in the very post you're referring to. After the bit you quoted, I said:

On 10/27/2024 at 5:29 AM, phoenyx75 said:

If we don't want to define them with the same word, we have this choice as well.

I've done some thinking about this. I've read that some people in professional capacities have been fired for not using people's preferred pronouns and been rewarded damages:

https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/01/us/kansas-teacher-suspend-settle/index.html

 

Conversely, I've read of employees who were fired -because- they listed their pronouns in emails:

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/nyregion/houghton-university-employees-pronouns.html

 

The bottom line, ofcourse, is what -should- be happening? I -think- we can agree that a person listing the pronouns they would like used with them should be fine and shouldn't get one fired. As to whether people should respect the pronouns they'd like, I think so, but I also think there should be limits. I'm fine with using he for a trans male and she for a trans female, even 'eir' or 'they' for someone who doesn't consider themselves to be a he or a she. But I've heard there are a lot more pronouns and I'm resistant to having to use even more. Perhaps I may change in time here.

As to my acceptance of using the pronouns wished for above, I suspect it has a lot to do with my interactions with trans people. I've conversed with a trans man in a men's circle where he shared he was beaten up for being trans to the point that he now has difficulty walking- I know this because I asked him why he had difficulty walking. Is it really so hard to call him a man even though he's biologically a woman? I don't think so. Much easier than what he's had to go through for the choice he made, that's for sure.

Edited October 31, 2024 by phoenyx75

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:22 PM, User said:

So, when a confused kid is convinced they are trans, they identify as trans, get talked into surgery and drugs (while still a kid) and then they figure out later in life it was all a mistake, were they born trans or not?

We've certainly not always agreed on things in relation to trans people, but the point you made here, which I see no one responded to, is a very good one. 

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:13 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

On 10/27/2024 at 6:09 AM, phoenyx75 said:

Let's not forget that all trans people were once kids too. I -strongly- suspect that this insistence that the genders are different is actually part of the -reason- that some people decide to become trans, and sometimes even go as far as altering their body physically to appear more like the biological gender they identify with.

People don't decide to become trans. They are born trans. It is not a choice. The choise comes when the individual chooses to have gender re-assignment surgery that can cost tens of thousands of dollars. Even then, In Canada, the [person] needs to be assessed before surgery. At the Menard Clinic, candidates who have already been assessed, are in the clinic for a month for rigourous counselling before surgery. Transitioning is a long and expensive procedure. F2M transition is more expensive than M2F. 

I certainly don't always agree with User, but I see that he responded to your post in post #90 and no one responded to prior to my own response just now, is a good one. For those who don't want to click on any links, here's what User said in response to Queenmandy's post:

**

So, when a confused kid is convinced they are trans, they identify as trans, get talked into surgery and drugs (while still a kid) and then they figure out later in life it was all a mistake, were they born trans or not?

**

So in summation, I think I should have said "decide to identify as trans" rather than saying "decide to become trans", but User's point is very valid and I think one that a lot of the trans community and those who support them are averse to dealing with.

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 12:36 PM, CdnFox said:

  

On 10/27/2024 at 12:13 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

People don't decide to become trans. They are born trans. It is not a choice.

We know that's not accurate. It's not quite so simple as being a choice but it is definitely in many cases not biological. Or at least not exclusively biological at all. Environmental factors play a large role.

In those cases where it is purely biological it's a disorder and needs to be treated as such. Talking about there is the Hardcore gender dysphoria victims

Could you elaborate on a case where it's "purely biologicaly"? I genuinely have no knowledge of any case like this and am curious.

[Scott75]

On 10/27/2024 at 6:31 PM, User said:

On 10/27/2024 at 1:25 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

“Don't you find it odd that plastic surgery can cure a mental disorder?" Bree Osbourne in Transamerica. 😘

It doesn't. 

So is your argument that trans people all have cases of body dysmorphia before they have surgery? I think this may be true. But then, if someone who's trans undergoes surgery and then feels good about their body, wouldn't that work? Now, I'm not saying that there couldn't be other ways to get them to feel good about their body, but if they're an adult, I think the way they choose should be their choice to make, so long as they're footing the bill. Things get more complicated if the where to foot some or all of the bill, but I'm not sure if that's actually done anywhere.

[Scott75]

On 10/28/2024 at 8:56 AM, Deluge said:

On 10/27/2024 at 2:25 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

Wanna bet. I know a person in Calgary who spent $120,000 on her surgery. You would never know she was born a male.

He still is a male. That's what's so sad about all of this. 

Biologically yes, but they -look- female and also identify as such. If they can afford the surgery and it makes them happy, shouldn't we be happy for them and respect their choice to be called she/her?

[Deluge]

1 hour ago, phoenyx75 said:

I don't know how Bill Clinton allegedly used the word "is", but there are a fair amount of people who now include trans people into the definitions of the gender they identify with and I personally think that's a good thing. As mentioned elsewhere, I still think it's good to be able to differentiate between people who are biologically of a given gender (what some call "sex") and those who only identify as said gender, such as for sports competitions that wish to only have people of the female biological gender involved in said competition.

This is why you never use the word "gender" to define someone's sexuality - it's too ambiguous. 

The correct way to function in society is by a person's sex. 

[Scott75]

On 10/28/2024 at 9:10 AM, Deluge said:

On 10/28/2024 at 9:01 AM, Rebound said:

Why do you care?

Because trannies are trying to shoehorn their agenda into the mainstream, and that's not acceptable. 

 

What agenda do you believe trans people have and why do you think it's not acceptable?

[Nationalist]

5 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

 

What agenda do you believe trans people have and why do you think it's not acceptable?

They are attempting to "normalize" extremely unnatural and confusing sexual kinks with children.

That is completely unacceptable. 

Edited October 31, 2024 by Nationalist

[Deluge]

3 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

What agenda do you believe trans people have and why do you think it's not acceptable?

It's a political, cultural, Hollywood and commercial attempt to push transgenderism on the American public, but the public has largely rejected it, thank God. 

Still, these scumbags are trying to groom America's kids. Whether you're in on the agenda or just some clueless bystander, the number of teenagers and young adults who identify as transgender has doubled from 2017 to 2022. Don't you find that suspicious? 

[Scott75]

On 10/28/2024 at 11:27 AM, CdnFox said:

On 10/28/2024 at 9:01 AM, Rebound said:

On 10/27/2024 at 11:58 AM, Deluge said:

1. Great. Then trannies can dress up as kids and play with each other.  

2. See, that's the beauty of mental health professionals and facilities. They can take the trannies in and help them work through their mental disorders. My suggestion would be that the trannies stay in treatment facilities until they feel empowered to act within the appropriate standards of their biological sex. 

Why do you care? 
I don’t care that you have an itty-bitty dick.  Why are you so obsessed with other men’s penises?  Maybe a tranny can theirs off and donate it to you so you can stop being so jealous of the rest of us.  

and again yet another lefty having weird sexual fantasies when they begin to lose an argument. At least you guys are consistent.

I'd like to say that while I'd like to think that Rebound is trying to do the right thing, which I think is defending the trans community, I don't think what Rebound said starting with his "I don't care" line was helpful to the discussion in this thread. With that said...

On 10/28/2024 at 11:27 AM, CdnFox said:

Unfortunately we're forced to think about other men's penises these days. The men who are demanding to be called women insist that we think about it. They want their own bathrooms. They want to compete in women's sports, they want laws to compel speech, they demand that Cartoon books for children showing homosexual sex acts explicitly be available in our schools, and they want to indoctrinate children.

 

A lot of assertions here. I think the most dangerous one is that all transgender people and those who support them in some way are of the same mind on all of the issues you bring up. They're not. I do believe that calling trans people by the gender they identify with is hardly a hardship, especially considering the things many of them have gone through when they made the choice to identify as trans and/or get gender reassignment surgery.

As to trans women wanting to compete in women's sports, I believe that biological women should have the right to compete in sports where only biological women are allowed, because biological men tend to have innate advantages in this area.

As to bathrooms, I think the solution is to have more gender neutral bathrooms, perhaps eliminating gendered bathrooms completely. I know this has been done in some places and I think it's a good thing. I strongly believe that a large part of the -reason- there are so many people who want to identify as a gender they are not a part of biologically is because gender norms have become oppressive for many. It's funny, because when I was in high school, I remember having a debate in a class on whether there were any fundamental differences between men and women. At the time, I don't think there was any question that we were talking about biological men and women. I thought there were and the girl I liked most in the whole school thought there wasn't. There certainly are some differences- I think the most important one is that biological women are the only ones who can get pregnant and biological men are the only ones who can provide the sperm to impregate, but that while this is certainly important, it definitely doesn't change the fact that biological men and women aren't all that different at a fundamental level and the more our society recognizes this, the less I believe people will want to do things like have gender reassignment surgery. Making more gender neutral bathrooms is a start.

As to what cartoon books do or don't show in schools, I think that's a debate I'll pass on for the time being. I don't have any kids of my own at this point, so it's certainly not an issue I have to decide on myself. I -do- believe that it would have been better if I'd gotten more education on sexuality in school myself, but mainly in terms of how to socially interact with girls, not so much how sex works (they did teach us that part starting in grade 7 I believe, and I think it was for the best).

 

  

On 10/28/2024 at 11:27 AM, CdnFox said:

They demand to be front and center constantly. And if they're not allowed to wear gigantic massively oversized breasts in class then their rights are being violated. 

If your Child suggests that there's only two genders then they very well could be expelled from school. 

We don't want to care. If they would go away and live their lives in peace and happiness we wouldn't care. We care right now like the Israelis care about Gaza after October 7th. It's not like we have a choice.

I haven't heard of this "not allowed to wear gigantic..." thing, but that sounds a tad strange. As to children suggesting that there are only 2 genders, I think the best thing is to have a discussion about it as we're having now. As to Israel, I'm solidly on the side of those who believe that Israel's currently committing a genocide in Gaza.

[Scott75]

23 hours ago, Deluge said:

23 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

Did you notice that Wikipedia didn't mention biological in its definition?

Did you notice that Wikipedia is a dictionary that anyone can edit? That means any ol' piece of sh*t activist democrat can define something however he or she wants. That makes for a pretty shitty dictionary; wouldn't you agree? 

I know for a fact that not all Wikipedia pages can be edited by anyone. Some require you to have already edited a large amount of Wikipedia pages, and I also know that you can be banned from editing Wikipedia pages. I've noticed that Wikipedia's gender article is semi protected, which means:

**

Semi-protected pages like this page cannot be edited by unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as accounts that are not confirmed or autoconfirmed (accounts that are at least 4 days old with at least 10 edits on English Wikipedia). Semi-protection is useful when there is a significant amount of disruption or vandalism from new or unregistered users, or to prevent sockpuppets of blocked or banned users from editing, especially when it occurs on biographies of living persons who have had a recent high level of media interest.

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy#semi

 

As to Wikipedia in general, I don't always agree with its articles, but I find that it's generally a good place to start on a variety of topics, in large part because whatever the subject, it always includes at least one source article, which certainly isn't the case for many other articles out there.

[Deluge]

1 minute ago, phoenyx75 said:

I know for a fact that not all Wikipedia pages can be edited by anyone. Some require you to have already edited a large amount of Wikipedia pages, and I also know that you can be banned from editing Wikipedia pages. I've noticed that Wikipedia's gender article is semi protected, which means:

**

Semi-protected pages like this page cannot be edited by unregistered users (IP addresses), as well as accounts that are not confirmed or autoconfirmed (accounts that are at least 4 days old with at least 10 edits on English Wikipedia). Semi-protection is useful when there is a significant amount of disruption or vandalism from new or unregistered users, or to prevent sockpuppets of blocked or banned users from editing, especially when it occurs on biographies of living persons who have had a recent high level of media interest.

**

Source:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Protection_policy#semi

 

As to Wikipedia in general, I don't always agree with its articles, but I find that it's generally a good place to start on a variety of topics, in large part because whatever the subject, it always includes at least one source article, which certainly isn't the case for many other articles out there.

And I know for a fact that you are wrong. 

I, personally, have edited a left leaning page and confirmed that the change took place. That was my first and only edit. 

[User]

3 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

I have once again reported you for harassment.

Words can mean whatever we want them too! 

Why do you keep claiming to be a pedophile?

 

2 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

So is your argument that trans people all have cases of body dysmorphia before they have surgery? I think this may be true. But then, if someone who's trans undergoes surgery and then feels good about their body, wouldn't that work? Now, I'm not saying that there couldn't be other ways to get them to feel good about their body, but if they're an adult, I think the way they choose should be their choice to make, so long as they're footing the bill. Things get more complicated if the where to foot some or all of the bill, but I'm not sure if that's actually done anywhere.

I am saying that none of this is a "cure"

Making themselves appear to be more like something they are not did not cure them of believing they are something they are not. 

 

[Nationalist]

11 minutes ago, User said:

Making themselves appear to be more like something they are not did not cure them of believing they are something they are not. 

 

In fact...I believe it only adds to the psychosis.

[User]

4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

In fact...I believe it only adds to the psychosis.

The sad thing is that many kids grow out of any of this confusion or angst or whatever you want to call it. These evil people want to convert them into being something they are not for their own selfish perversions. 

[Nationalist]

49 minutes ago, User said:

The sad thing is that many kids grow out of any of this confusion or angst or whatever you want to call it. These evil people want to convert them into being something they are not for their own selfish perversions. 

And then what?

I wouldn't redo adolescents for all the tea in China. And I had it easy.

These vulchers belong in jail.!

[CdnFox]

4 hours ago, phoenyx75 said:

What I find rather ironic is that I actually agreed with what you're saying above in the very post you're referring to.

However what you said later is that "we" can "choose ".  And i was pointing out and establishing that it's not just a 'choice' that 'we' can make collectively or the like, if it's a 'right' for society then it must be a 'right' for the individual. 

As far as the workplace scenarios you brought up, it does get tricky. Would I as an employer want each of my employees to have a different pronoun that all of my customers and suppliers were supposed to remember and use when dealing with them personally? Should I get in trouble if I don't enforce thatstop doing business with customers that won't use the correct pronoun for the person?

Likewise I don't think it's appropriate or an example of freedom of speech to be demeaning to somebody at the workplace. People shouldn't have to suffer dehumanizing Behavior just cuz they need to earn money and being an employer doesn't mean you have the right to mistreat people. 

I think at the end of the day however, in both cases you have to accept that if what somebody says is true then you have to accept their rights to speak the truth. If you are a biological male and you are currently presenting as a female and identify as such, it is still true to refer to you as a biological male. And to use language appropriate to a biological male. And I don't think people should be penalized for that one way or another. I think if something is objectively true then you shouldn't be penalized for it Unless you can prove that it is being said with deliberate malicious intent to harm.

Our defamation laws already operate on this principle. Basically if something is objectively true it's very very hard to sue somebody for defamation for saying it. Almost impossible in fact. This should be the same. It may make somebody uncomfortable but they should have the right to speak the truth.

Having said that if someone appears to be female or advises me that they consider themselves a female I'm using female pronouns and female language to describe them.

On the other hand if they turn Around and start calling me a white sis male settler, that might just go out the window  

We need to learn common decency and mutual respect again rather than trying to force it by law

[Scott75]

On 10/30/2024 at 8:54 AM, User said:

On 10/30/2024 at 8:37 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 10/27/2024 at 11:43 AM, User said:

On 10/27/2024 at 11:41 AM, phoenyx75 said:

On 10/27/2024 at 10:49 AM, User said:

That is fundamentally dishonest. They are not both women. 

No, you're just trying to impose your definition of women on everyone else.

LOL, it is not my definition.

It is, but let's continue with what you were saying...

Nope. It is THE definition and has been that for as long as we have defined man and woman in human history. 

Only in the last 5 minutes of human history, folks like you want to play these dishonest games to appease people and fabricate meaningless definitions to do so. 

First of all, your definition can't be "THE" definition if other folks are using a different one. Secondly, the fact that you're using the older definition automatically means that it's your own as well.

  

On 10/30/2024 at 8:54 AM, User said:

On 10/30/2024 at 8:37 AM, phoenyx75 said:

I'm sure you know that definitions can and frequently do change over time. An increasing number of people are including trans women as a type of women.

Except, you are not merely wanting to change a definition over time, you want to change it to a fundamentally meaningless one. 

No, that's not true. I and others have simply expanded our definition of males and females to include people who while biologically of a given gender have chosen to identify as the other. For biological purposes, they can still be distinguished by simply preceding the term with biological. Another way is by using the term sex instead of gender, though I personally don't favour that approach as sex means something very different than one's biological gender as well.

[User]

2 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

First of all, your definition can't be "THE" definition if other folks are using a different one. Secondly, the fact that you're using the older definition automatically means that it's your own as well.

Oh... do I need to go back to asking why you are admitting to being a Pedophile before you get this?

The fact that some of you are trying to change the term to something meaningless doesn't mean the term doesn't have an established definition. 

It is not the older definition, it is the definition. 

Also, you keep ignoring that what you are trying to redefine it to mean, is meaningless and contradictory. 

3 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

No, that's not true. I and others have simply expanded our definition of males and females to include people who while biologically of a given gender have chosen to identify as the other. 

Which... makes it meaningless. 

Go ahead, give me your definition of what a male and what a female is. 

4 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

For biological purposes, they can still be distinguished by simply preceding the term with biological.

Why do you need to distinguish anyone if the term male and female are not meaningless terms?

The outright stupidity of what you are doing here is that you now want to steal a word to accommodate a fringe minority of people and then tell the vast majority of people to use a different term to identify themselves. 

6 minutes ago, phoenyx75 said:

Another way is by using the term sex instead of gender, though I personally don't favour that approach as sex means something very different than one's biological gender as well.

The problem here is that the people pretending to be male and female also think that term means man and woman. 

No one pretending to be female still identifies as a man. 

This is the underlying dishonesty of this whole argument.