Prayer Rooms in Schools

[Guest Warwick Green]

It's just a regular stairwell landing, five flights up with only the roof above, tucked away at the back of the Ecole de technologie superieure downtown.

Day and night, Muslim students sneak up there to pray, defying the school's rule that no religious activity happen on its grounds, where science and reason weigh over matters of faith.

"I was going to pray in my office, but my colleague told me we aren't allowed," said Rachida Djouab, 28, an Algerian Muslim who dresses traditionally and prays five times a day.

"So I pray in the stairwell."

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...22-5bc4d0b3a81a

Now it has been ruled that they are entitled to have a room to pray in. When I went to college, in a much simpler time, ALL religions were entitled to use empty classrooms for worship. Many groups had regular services in the same room by reserving it and advertising it to the student body.

Too bad the Muslims had to go to court to get what they had in my college many years ago.

[ClearWest]

Let the people pray for heaven's sake. What kind of sick country do we live in where people aren't allowed to pray? I agree with the empty classroom solution--I'm sure they can arrange something where a regular meeting place can be allowed. It can be done in a manner that it doesn't interfere with studies, it should be allowed.

[geoffrey]

Agreed. Just let them pray, come on now. If its out of the way and I never see it, personally I could care less if they were having sacrifical goat rituals... well.. that'd probably smell so no.

Leave these people be. All religions get prayer rooms at my university, at least all that want them. Whats the beef? When we start telling people they can't pray in the privacy of their offices on their time, I worry about the direction of our society.

[Riverwind]

Leave these people be. All religions get prayer rooms at my university, at least all that want them. Whats the beef? When we start telling people they can't pray in the privacy of their offices on their time, I worry about the direction of our society.

I agree 100% - people have a right to assemble for any legal purpose on a university campus.

[Leafless]

Warwick Green

I cannot believe the double standard on this site suppoting foreign religious aspirations when it was the Muslims directly responsible for the elimination of the harmless 'Lord's prayer' in public schools.

I suggest they follow school policy and go and pray in your mosques or whatever your official place of worship where all other religions do their praying.

Stop embarrassng the country and it's schools with your minority religious views on public property.

[BubberMiley]

I agree with Leafless. No sanctioned prayer in public schools.

[sami]

Warwick Green

I cannot believe the double standard on this site suppoting foreign religious aspirations when it was the Muslims directly responsible for the elimination of the harmless 'Lord's prayer' in public schools.

I suggest they follow school policy and go and pray in your mosques or whatever your official place of worship where all other religions do their praying.

Stop embarrassng the country and it's schools with your minority religious views on public property.

The Lord's Prayer was not eliminated . It was replaced by quiet reflection time, when people could choose to pray however the wished. I think that was common sense.

If they remove prayer rooms, does that mean kids will now have to break from school and go home to pray? I don't see the point in that. I had prayer rooms when I was in high school.

[Leafless]

sami

You wrote- " If they remove prayer rooms , does that mean kids will now have to break from school and go home to pray? I don't see the point in that. I had prayer rooms when I was in high schools."

I think this question belongs in the hands of your religious leaders who must face the reality concerning your stringent minority religious beliefs or possibly considering private schools for Muslims who insist on praying five times a day.

The Lord's Prayer was eliminated as you yourself claiming it was replaced with "quiet reflection time" which is also discrediting token acknowledgement with a small short prayer to the major religion Christianity this country was found on.

[sami]

sami

You wrote- " If they remove prayer rooms , does that mean kids will now have to break from school and go home to pray? I don't see the point in that. I had prayer rooms when I was in high schools."

I think this question belongs in the hands of your religious leaders who must face the reality concerning your stringent minority religious beliefs or possibly considering private schools for Muslims who insist on praying five times a day.

The Lord's Prayer was eliminated as you yourself claiming it was replaced with "quiet reflection time" which is also discrediting token acknowledgement with a small short prayer to the major religion Christianity this country was found on.

We are a secular country, not a Muslim one and not Christian one. It does not matter who is a minority or majority, all religions should be treated equally. I feel that as long as your practice of religion is not ‘impeding’ those around you or an excuse to promote it, I do not see any reason why a school can not have a universal prayer room. Saying this, I do agree with your point that alternative schooling should be considered if you intend to be orthodox in your beliefs.

[geoffrey]

We are a secular country, not a Muslim one and not Christian one. It does not matter who is a minority or majority, all religions should be treated equally. I feel that as long as your practice of religion is not ‘impeding’ those around you or an excuse to promote it, I do not see any reason why a school can not have a universal prayer room. Saying this, I do agree with your point that alternative schooling should be considered if you intend to be orthodox in your beliefs.

Segregation was a massive failure with the blacks, why apply it to the muslims?

If the kid just excuses himself/herself from class and heads to some quiet area of the school and prays for a couple minutes than heads back to class, you'd be hard pressed to find some harm in that to anyone else.

Let the people pray. If the Christians can, then so should everyone else.

A secular school should not promote religions, but it needs to respect the rights of those that practice them.

[BubberMiley]

I agree with Geoffrey. No sanctioned prayer in public schools!

[geoffrey]

No sanctioned prayer, but if the kid wants to pray, by all means let him is what I said to clarify though Bubber.

[Slavik44]

Warwick Green

I cannot believe the double standard on this site suppoting foreign religious aspirations when it was the Muslims directly responsible for the elimination of the harmless 'Lord's prayer' in public schools.

I suggest they follow school policy and go and pray in your mosques or whatever your official place of worship where all other religions do their praying.

Stop embarrassng the country and it's schools with your minority religious views on public property.

There is absolutely no double stuandard, The lords prayer was a forced public display of Religion that violated peoples religous freedoms and there ability to choose wether or not they wanted to be religous. IF we were here argueign everyone in public school should get on a mat and pray five tiems a day to mecca then yes, there would be a double standard. But most people here are only saying that people of all faiths Christian, Muslim, or whatever should have an area designated for prayer that they could choose to go to if they so desired.

[geoffrey]

If the schools started making kids chant Muslims prayer, then I'd be out in the streets rioting France style.

But they aren't. Just having a private place so the kids can pray away from everyone else, in peace. What is the problem with that.

Eliminating the Lords prayer in public school isn't the same as giving a private place for Muslims to pray. Christians have these places in schools uncontested currently anyways.

[BubberMiley]

But most people here are only saying that people of all faiths Christian, Muslim, or whatever should have an area designated for prayer that they could choose to go to if they so desired.

When I was a student, I advocated for a similar area designated for masturbation, but it didn't fly.

[Guest Warwick Green]

When I was a student, I advocated for a similar area designated for masturbation, but it didn't fly.

Last time I checked the Charter of Rights doesn't give anyone the right to jerk off.

[Leafless]

sami

You wrote- " We are a secular country, not a Muslim and not a Christian one."

According to 2001 census we are a primarily Christian country and NOT a secular country.

Roman Cathilic= 12.8 million or 43% of the population

Protestant= 8.7 million or 29% of the population

Orthodox= 479,600 or 1.4% of the population

Jewish =479, 600 or 1.1% of the population

Islamic= 579,600 or 2% of the population

Hindu= 297,200 or 1% of the population

Sikh= 278,400 or 1% of the population

Buddhists= 300,000 or 1% of the population

No religion= 4.8 million or 16% of the population

You also wrote - " It does not matter or is a majority or minority, all religions should be treated equally."

They are sami.

You are permitted to worship the religion of your choice.

But what you are suggesting is forcing your beliefs during the hours of school or work which is not the responsibility of society as a whole, especially in a place supported by public tax dollars.

Simply use the resources supplied by your religion.

[sami]

sami

You wrote- " We are a secular country, not a Muslim and not a Christian one."

According to 2001 census we are a primarily Christian country and NOT a secular country.

According to that logic there are no secular countries then.

You also wrote - " It does not matter or is a majority or minority, all religions should be treated equally."

They are sami.

You are permitted to worship the religion of your choice.

But what you are suggesting is forcing your beliefs during the hours of school or work which is not the responsibility of society as a whole, especially in a place supported by public tax dollars.

Simply use the resources supplied by your religion.

I see, so the tax dollars are only for the benefit of Christian tax payers? I find it interesting that our tax dollars can be use for Catholic Schools, but God forbid if any other religon wants to have something as simple as a prayer room. Then it is 'forcing our beliefs' on others?

[Guest Warwick Green]

But what you are suggesting is forcing your beliefs during the hours of school or work which is not the responsibility of society as a whole, especially in a place supported by public tax dollars.

I would like to see religion divorced from the school room. But I don't want to go the route of France and subordinate everyting to the God of Secularization. If people want to wear religious dress to school, fine, since it doesn't affect anyone else's rights.

But no teaching of religion in schools - other than as an anthropological curiosity. No proselytization.

As for prayer rooms, if the school allows its premises to be used by the chess club and the campus branch of the Flat Earth Society it can extend the same to religious groups.

[BubberMiley]

Roman Cathilic= 12.8 million or 43% of the population

Weekly attendance among Canada's 14 million Catholics has been on a steady decline for decades. A survey of 3,500 Canadians conducted in 2000 shows that outside Quebec, 32 per cent go to church regularly, compared to 75 per cent in the 1950s. In Quebec, which accounts for about 24 per cent of Canada's population, the weekly attendance has dropped to 20 per cent, from 88 per cent.

--2001 survey

So of that 43%, between 20 and 32 % actually practice religion. All hail the secular majority!

[Riverwind]

Roman Catholic= 12.8 million or 43% of the population

I was in my 30s before I stopped checking off the 'Catholic' box on census forms despite the fact I had not been inside a church for years. What the census measures is how many people come from families that practices a particular religion. It is not a measure of how many people actually practice the religion.

[Leafless]

BubberMiley

You wrote- " So of that 43%, between 20 and 32% actually practice religion. All hail to the secular majority."

If your talking fiqures relating to Christianity you must add the other 29% Protestant and when combined with Roman Catholic gives us 72% or 21.5 million Christian Canadians.

So Bubber what are you trying to insinuate that we are a country of pagans?

The point Sami was trying to make I think, was that Canada is not a secular country (church controlled)compared to to religious controlled countries like Islamic countries.

But we have Charter factors concerning religion, swearing on a bible in a court of law, UN ruling that Canada discriminates concerning funding of Catholic schools, Quebec's own Charter, and a previous Liberal Prime Minister who was adamant regarding the separation of church and state.

So has far as Iam concerned this whole confusing issue should be left to the legislators of this country as they got us there initially with Charter Rights and advocating separation of Church and state when it is clear Christianity is embedded in Canadian society.

[BubberMiley]

BubberMiley

So Bubber what are you trying to insinuate that we are a country of pagans?

No, I think very few people practise paganism. I think most of them follow Survivor and Desperate Housewives.

[geoffrey]

Whether there are lots of Christians or not, doesn't change the fact that the government and law should be blind to religion.

[thejollyroger]

No, I think very few people practise paganism. I think most of them follow Survivor and Desperate Housewives.

Paganism is a buzz word trumped up by the catholic church, generally meaning non-catholic. So, I'd take a guess at saying there are quite a few. The Catholic church considers me a pagan.

I have questions for the earlier posters.

1. Someone stated that the lords prayer was taken out of the scholl system by the government. Do you have a source for that statement?

2. I belive that upon request of a religious minority for a prayer room, there are some requirements in Canada to supply this within reason. Can anyone provide the regulations on this ?