CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 Unemployment in Canada: Why is it hard to find a job right now? | CTV News “It’s very hard to find a job in Canada today,” said Jim Stanford, economist and director for the Centre for Future Work, a non-partisan policy think tank. He called Canada’s job market “unacceptably weak,” arguing the government and the central bank overreacted to pandemic “shock.” During the early pandemic years, Stanford recalled, the Canadian government largely halted immigration and the regular operations of several industries. Vacancies skyrocketed once the government ended lockdowns and lifted restrictions, he said. However, Canada’s workforce changed. “Canadians did not give up on work,” Stanford told CTVNews.ca. “When those jobs disappeared, they figured out what to do. … They went and got more training.” And when the jobs reappeared, many expected better wages, he says. “Employers in those industries cried, saying people ‘don’t want to work,’” and demanded the government take measures to remedy the worker shortage, he continued. In response, the Liberal government eased rules on temporary foreign workers, among other measures. The Temporary Foreign Workers Program allows businesses to hire foreign staff in the absence of Canadian labour. Since then, the program has drawn the ire of international spectators. Notably, the United Nations called it a “breeding ground for contemporary slavery.” Quote
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 Well there you have it. Just when you thought the libs couldn't screw up anything else. And the problem is all those temp foreign people are still here for the most part and it's not easy to get rid of them. So now we've got a serious problem - Employers aren't incentivized to spend money to make people more productive, people aren't making what they need to especially in light of the severe inflation we've seen and we're screwed for gdp per capita and quality of life. Not to mention housing and medicine etc etc. And it's not like we can just shut the whole thing down entirely tomorrow. So how long is it going to take to grow our way out of this? 20 years? Does trudeau really think he did these people a favour letting them in Quote
cougar Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 3 minutes ago, CdnFox said: “Employers in those industries cried, saying people ‘don’t want to work,’” and demanded the government take measures to remedy the worker shortage, he continued. In response, the Liberal government eased rules on temporary foreign workers, among other measures. The Temporary Foreign Workers Program allows businesses to hire foreign staff in the absence of Canadian labour. Since then, the program has drawn the ire of international spectators. Notably, the United Nations called it a “breeding ground for contemporary slavery.” This has been the case for as long as I have been around which is now 23 years. Even regular immigration was and is "contemporary slavery". Many immigrants realized it, some returned home, some just came, took a quick look and left. This wasn't helping the fat cats who invented this scam so they resorted to importing refugees, temporary workers, students, poor Asians and whoever else they could recruit to pump up the balloon. I am however baffled by the incredible invasion of East Indians in my small community and they have a tendency to appear in all kinds of odd places, that begs the question how they turn up like that all over the place....You'd think they would go to a big city to study or find job opportunities. Our Tim Hortons was pretty multicultural but not any more. It is now 100% East Indians babbling in Punjabi. My food starts tasting more and more like s*t and 9 times out of 10 they don't give me napkins in the bag. It has become a habit now to check and ask for napkins! Which makes me wonder if those guys wash their hands after going to the washroom. They can't all have two master's degrees and being underemployed as they would want to make you think. I am tempted to place my next drive through order like that: -May I have two large farmers pieces of s"t with bacon scent; one extra large farmer's p-i-ss with two breast milk shots. Forget about the napkins; what are the car seats for, anyways? - Do you want a brownie to make it a combo? - the brownie will ask - Did not know you are included in the combo, but no , thanks, no brownies for me. Quote
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 14 minutes ago, cougar said: - Do you want a brownie to make it a combo? - the brownie will ask I see what you did there The current increases have been insane. It got a little out of control and harper's day but he also changed the rules to correct for that. But now it's just an open Floodgate because Trudeau felt that businesses needed to have all of these people. Except now they don't and we still got the people. Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 "the Liberal government eased rules on temporary foreign workers, among other measures. " Why do we even have a temporary foreign workers program?? Is it because the farmers and others need workers cannot get them forrn "Canadians"? Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Five of swords Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 9 hours ago, CdnFox said: Well there you have it. Just when you thought the libs couldn't screw up anything else. And the problem is all those temp foreign people are still here for the most part and it's not easy to get rid of them. So now we've got a serious problem - Employers aren't incentivized to spend money to make people more productive, people aren't making what they need to especially in light of the severe inflation we've seen and we're screwed for gdp per capita and quality of life. Not to mention housing and medicine etc etc. And it's not like we can just shut the whole thing down entirely tomorrow. So how long is it going to take to grow our way out of this? 20 years? Does trudeau really think he did these people a favour letting them in Why are you blaming libs? The pursuit of cheap labor has never really been their agenda. According to your own source, the obvious culprit here is capitalism. It is people who care more about profit than they care about the coherence and social cohesion of the people of canada. 2 Quote
Moonbox Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 4 minutes ago, Five of swords said: According to your own source, the obvious culprit here is capitalism. It is people who care more about profit than they care about the coherence and social cohesion of the people of canada. Yes, but boneheaded decisions by the Liberals set the conditions to make it worse. Capitalism is great because of its inexorable drive to get more efficient, more productive and better. That drive, however, is predictably cynical and fundamentally unconcerned with society at large. The people and the government have to set up guardrails and incentives to direct this force of (human) nature so that it benefits society, or at the very least doesn't harm it. Blaming capitalism for doing capitalistic things is like blaming the scorpion for stinging. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Five of swords Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 9 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Yes, but boneheaded decisions by the Liberals set the conditions to make it worse. Capitalism is great because of its inexorable drive to get more efficient, more productive and better. That drive, however, is predictably cynical and fundamentally unconcerned with society at large. The people and the government have to set up guardrails and incentives to direct this force of (human) nature so that it benefits society, or at the very least doesn't harm it. Blaming capitalism for doing capitalistic things is like blaming the scorpion for stinging. Uh...I can certainly blame a scorpion for stinging. And if someone sneaks a scorpion in my shoe, I can blame them, because they knew what would happen. Knowledge makes guilt possible. That seems like the basic message of our fall from the garden of eden, after eating the forbidden fruit of knowledge. It even made childbirth painful, cause our brains got big. So whether or not you like the cosmetics of 'blaming capitalism'..lol...which is just talk.. the solution is the same: eliminate capitalism. If you are serious about solving the problem, at least. Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 1 hour ago, Five of swords said: Why are you blaming libs? The pursuit of cheap labor has never really been their agenda. According to your own source, the obvious culprit here is capitalism. It is people who care more about profit than they care about the coherence and social cohesion of the people of canada. We have little to no manufacturing in this country due to high labour costs. This is not new. manufacturing has left the country because the companies cannot remain competitive having to pay the wages demanded. Not going to get into the debate about making living wages or what the work is worth. The fact is jobs are lost to foreign workers and countries due to high wage demand. It is not even people caring about profit, it is about who will buy the product if it cost so much. No one buys so, the companies go out of business and the jobs are gone.. "social cohesion of the people of canada."??? What is that?? Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 46 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Yes, but boneheaded decisions by the Liberals set the conditions to make it worse. Capitalism is great because of its inexorable drive to get more efficient, more productive and better. That drive, however, is predictably cynical and fundamentally unconcerned with society at large. The people and the government have to set up guardrails and incentives to direct this force of (human) nature so that it benefits society, or at the very least doesn't harm it. Blaming capitalism for doing capitalistic things is like blaming the scorpion for stinging. What bonehead decisions by the liberals? Foregn workers have been a needed workforce for generations, overseen by all levels of government and all political parties. The agri business would collapse if it had to pay Canadians what they think they deserve even if they would go to work there. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
Moonbox Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 32 minutes ago, Five of swords said: Uh...I can certainly blame a scorpion for stinging. And if someone sneaks a scorpion in my shoe, I can blame them, because they knew what would happen. I mean, sure, blame it if you want, but what good does it do? It makes a lot more sense blaming the guy for putting the scorpion in your boot, or for not informing you that he lives in a open-range scorpion den before you take your boots off. As you say, the consequences were predictable. It's the same with capitalism. It's basic human self-interest applied on a meta-scale. That's predictable, and therefore can be (to an extent) controlled and directed. Government plays a big role in that. The extent to which they do that is the debate. Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
Moonbox Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: What bonehead decisions by the liberals? Foregn workers have been a needed workforce for generations, overseen by all levels of government and all political parties. Sure. Where did I say we didn't need any foreign workers? 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: The agri business would collapse if it had to pay Canadians what they think they deserve even if they would go to work there. There's no question that farms wouldn't be able to afford wages for berry-pickers etc. That's why there were no suggestions to ban foreign workers...at least from me. 1 hour ago, ExFlyer said: It is not even people caring about profit, it is about who will buy the product if it cost so much. No one buys so, the companies go out of business and the jobs are gone.. It's definitely about people caring about profit, but it's also about worker wages, competition, regulation, tariffs and a great many other things. Car companies could pay high wages to union members, make shitty cars that broke down all of the time, and still rake in big profits...until they were subjected to foreign competition. I'd say we're all better off for that, but the key there is that we have fair competition Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 5 hours ago, ExFlyer said: "the Liberal government eased rules on temporary foreign workers, among other measures. " Why do we even have a temporary foreign workers program?? Is it because the farmers and others need workers cannot get them forrn "Canadians"? It's been around since the 70's, and there are various reasons for it. Some legit some less so. Quote
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 3 hours ago, Five of swords said: Why are you blaming libs? The pursuit of cheap labor has never really been their agenda. Well actually it has, their entire economic model has been based on high immigration artificially boosting the gdp to give the appearance of good economics and keep the deficit somewhat repressed. There hasn't been a time they weren't pushing for that. And it helps business interests that they hope will be supportive of them Quote According to your own source, the obvious culprit here is capitalism. Uhhhh no LOLOL no that is not what the source says Quote It is people who care more about profit than they care about the coherence and social cohesion of the people of canada. That's fine, the free market takes care of that and accounts for it as long as the rules designed to keep the playing field level remain in force. but when you introduce tonnes of free labour instead you create issues. It's just like saying "People are so greedy for wanting a place to live that it's driving housing up" . That's not a problem if population growth is natural its when you introduce tonnes of new people without planning for it that you run into a problem. Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 37 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Sure. Where did I say we didn't need any foreign workers? There's no question that farms wouldn't be able to afford wages for berry-pickers etc. That's why there were no suggestions to ban foreign workers...at least from me. It's definitely about people caring about profit, but it's also about worker wages, competition, regulation, tariffs and a great many other things. Car companies could pay high wages to union members, make shitty cars that broke down all of the time, and still rake in big profits...until they were subjected to foreign competition. I'd say we're all better off for that, but the key there is that we have fair competition When you say "Yes, but boneheaded decisions by the Liberals set the conditions to make it worse." the topic is about foreign workers so, your comment about bonehead decisions must be about foreign workers? So, what is the "bonehead decision by the liberals"? It is not profit, it is all about staying in business. Can't make it hear so, go where it can be made cheaper. Yes, there is competition etc and that is why manufacturing moved., to stay in business. Actually, the profit in cars is after sales market and of course, the huge government subsidies. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 (edited) 25 minutes ago, CdnFox said: It's been around since the 70's, and there are various reasons for it. Some legit some less so. And, who was in power in the 70's? And started the temporary foreign worker program? Oh yeah, liberals LOL "The TFW Program was created in 1973 to allow employers to hire foreign nationals to fill gaps in their workforces on a temporary basis. The program has grown and been updated over the years to respond to Canadian labour market conditions." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_foreign_worker_program_in_Canada And because there were not enough Canadians wanting to do the work...sounds like today. There are jobs but beneath Canadians LOL Edited September 18, 2024 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: And, who was in power in the 70's? Who indeed But if we're being fair every gov't since supported it as well to one degree or another. Quote https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temporary_foreign_worker_program_in_Canada And because there were not enough Canadians wanting to do the work...sounds like today. There are jobs but beneath Canadians LOL Well, yes and no. One of the issues that has come up over the years is that companies wishing to do business and invest in Canada and start up operations want to use their own people as much as possible for a variety of reasons. This may be because they're already trained or because they cost less money or it takes too long to train up enough newbies or a whole bunch of other possible reasons why they would rather bring people with them then start hiring and training people from scratch And sometimes it's also sort of political. And sure sometimes there are no Canadians with the exact skill set necessary. Additionally there are some jobs Canadians just don't want to do and using temporary foreign workers can help address that. Obviously agriculture is the number one example. But it's grown out of control at this point and what it's doing is allowing some employers to avoid making the business investments and decisions necessary to improve their productivity to get more out of their people. And we actually see business investment leaving Canada for the first time in our history. Anything, in moderation and where appropriate a properly managed program can produce benefits. But if you misuse or mishandle it it becomes a nightmare Quote
Moonbox Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: When you say "Yes, but boneheaded decisions by the Liberals set the conditions to make it worse." the topic is about foreign workers so, your comment about bonehead decisions must be about foreign workers? So, what is the "bonehead decision by the liberals"? Too much, too fast, too few guardrails, too many abuses, not enough housing, no plan to fix it. Unless you want to argue that Liberal immigration policy has been thoughtful, well-executed and is beyond criticism, I'm not sure where you want to go with this. 🤷♂️ Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 5 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Who indeed But if we're being fair every gov't since supported it as well to one degree or another. Well, yes and no. One of the issues that has come up over the years is that companies wishing to do business and invest in Canada and start up operations want to use their own people as much as possible for a variety of reasons. This may be because they're already trained or because they cost less money or it takes too long to train up enough newbies or a whole bunch of other possible reasons why they would rather bring people with them then start hiring and training people from scratch And sometimes it's also sort of political. And sure sometimes there are no Canadians with the exact skill set necessary. Additionally there are some jobs Canadians just don't want to do and using temporary foreign workers can help address that. Obviously agriculture is the number one example. But it's grown out of control at this point and what it's doing is allowing some employers to avoid making the business investments and decisions necessary to improve their productivity to get more out of their people. And we actually see business investment leaving Canada for the first time in our history. Anything, in moderation and where appropriate a properly managed program can produce benefits. But if you misuse or mishandle it it becomes a nightmare You don't have to like it. Bottom line, if Canadians want work, it is there. They don't so we need foreign workers. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 2 minutes ago, Moonbox said: Too much, too fast, too few guardrails, too many abuses, not enough housing, no plan to fix it. Unless you want to argue that Liberal immigration policy has been thoughtful, well-executed and is beyond criticism, I'm not sure where you want to go with this. 🤷♂️ What? Foreign workers? The program that has been going on since 17973? I thought the topic was temporary foreign workers, not immigration I am staying on topic. The article in the original post was addressing temporary foreign workers....you?? Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: You don't have to like it. No argument. I think it's grossly overused. Quote Bottom line, if Canadians want work, it is there. They don't so we need foreign workers. Generally true. There may be a few very specific cases (like a technology so unique there's no one in canada trained to use it) but it would be better for employers to be forced to learn to do more with the workers they have than perpetuate cheap labour. Quote
taxme Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: Unemployment in Canada: Why is it hard to find a job right now? | CTV News “It’s very hard to find a job in Canada today,” said Jim Stanford, economist and director for the Centre for Future Work, a non-partisan policy think tank. He called Canada’s job market “unacceptably weak,” arguing the government and the central bank overreacted to pandemic “shock.” During the early pandemic years, Stanford recalled, the Canadian government largely halted immigration and the regular operations of several industries. Vacancies skyrocketed once the government ended lockdowns and lifted restrictions, he said. However, Canada’s workforce changed. “Canadians did not give up on work,” Stanford told CTVNews.ca. “When those jobs disappeared, they figured out what to do. … They went and got more training.” And when the jobs reappeared, many expected better wages, he says. “Employers in those industries cried, saying people ‘don’t want to work,’” and demanded the government take measures to remedy the worker shortage, he continued. In response, the Liberal government eased rules on temporary foreign workers, among other measures. The Temporary Foreign Workers Program allows businesses to hire foreign staff in the absence of Canadian labour. Since then, the program has drawn the ire of international spectators. Notably, the United Nations called it a “breeding ground for contemporary slavery.” More immigration, means more problems. It is as simple as that. There are way too many people looking for housing and jobs. There has been hundreds of thousands of new legal and illegal immigrants every year coming into this country and all are fighting for a job and a place to live when there is no place for them to live or find work. How much longer will it take before Canada must decide to close the border doors for awhile? As they say" it's immigration, stupid". Immigration has become the number one issue in Canada today. Enough already. Quote
ExFlyer Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 1 minute ago, CdnFox said: No argument. I think it's grossly overused. Generally true. There may be a few very specific cases (like a technology so unique there's no one in canada trained to use it) but it would be better for employers to be forced to learn to do more with the workers they have than perpetuate cheap labour. I have relatives in the Fraser Valley of BC and in the Okanagan and they could not do without foreign workers . Their crops would die in the fields and rot on the trees. Almost 95& of the workers are foreign, the non foreign are the crew bosses and supervisors. Canadians will not do the piece work. Not comparing but saying the US also has to rely on foreign workers in California, Southern States and Florida. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts.
taxme Posted September 18, 2024 Report Posted September 18, 2024 13 hours ago, CdnFox said: Well there you have it. Just when you thought the libs couldn't screw up anything else. And the problem is all those temp foreign people are still here for the most part and it's not easy to get rid of them. So now we've got a serious problem - Employers aren't incentivized to spend money to make people more productive, people aren't making what they need to especially in light of the severe inflation we've seen and we're screwed for gdp per capita and quality of life. Not to mention housing and medicine etc etc. And it's not like we can just shut the whole thing down entirely tomorrow. So how long is it going to take to grow our way out of this? 20 years? Does trudeau really think he did these people a favour letting them in Do you think that all of these lineups at doctors offices and hospitals is no doubt due to the massive amounts of new immigration into this country? What the hell else can it be? Quote
CdnFox Posted September 18, 2024 Author Report Posted September 18, 2024 3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: I have relatives in the Fraser Valley of BC and in the Okanagan and they could not do without foreign workers . Their crops would die in the fields and rot on the trees. Almost 95& of the workers are foreign, the non foreign are the crew bosses and supervisors. Canadians will not do the piece work. Not comparing but saying the US also has to rely on foreign workers in California, Southern States and Florida. Sure as mentioned agriculture is an example of where Canadians just don't want to do the job and others do. And fair enough. Tim Hortons on the other hand.... Quote
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