Hezbollah terrorists were in the market for some pagers... Israel says here you go!

[User]

Wow, this is insane. Has anyone checked this out yet? 

 

Hezbollah vows to punish Israel after pager explosions across Lebanon

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/dozens-hezbollah-members-wounded-lebanon-when-pagers-exploded-sources-witnesses-2024-09-17/

"Lebanese Health Minister Firass Abiad said on Tuesday that eight people were killed and 2,750 wounded in the pager explosions, 200 of them critically."

[herbie]

Hah hah!

Probably hoped some of them were linked to trihher bombs so they'd detonate those too and take out the makers,

 

[NAME REMOVED]

 

This is the greatest day ever!

 

 

Edited September 18, 2024 by DUI_Offender

[CdnFox]

If it's true with regards to the Israeli involvement that's not okay. There's currently no declaration of war, there's no way to know whether or not that pager might be in the possession of a child or something like that, well I think we can all agree that Hezbollah deserves what it gets at the same time there are rules and they are important. This is closer to a terrorist act than a military operation.

Having said that I'll believe it was Israel when Israel takes credit for it. And when there's a little more proof that it really was thousands of people. There is zero chance I'm going to take hezbollah's word on anything

[Rebound]

12 hours ago, User said:

 

Hezbollah vows to punish Israel 

 

Is Hezbollah going to punish before or after they keep their vow of destroying Israel? 

[Nationalist]

This is going to make a lot of young women very unhappy. 

As for the "men"? Meh...they can now become full-on Libbie darlings with gender affirming care having been done to them.

Oh goodie...

[Black Dog]

18 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

This is the greatest day ever!

One of the victims was a 9-year-old girl so you must be extra aroused today.

[User]

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If it's true with regards to the Israeli involvement that's not okay. There's currently no declaration of war, there's no way to know whether or not that pager might be in the possession of a child or something like that, well I think we can all agree that Hezbollah deserves what it gets at the same time there are rules and they are important. This is closer to a terrorist act than a military operation.

Having said that I'll believe it was Israel when Israel takes credit for it. And when there's a little more proof that it really was thousands of people. There is zero chance I'm going to take hezbollah's word on anything

No declaration of war? 

I am not sure of the nuances of Israeli "declarations of war," but Israel has fully authorized their leadership to carry out military operations against Hezbollah as they have been doing so for many months now as Hezbollah has been continually launching rockets and attacking Northern Israel. 

 

40 minutes ago, Black Dog said:

One of the victims was a 9-year-old girl so you must be extra aroused today.

Are you speaking from your experience from what Hamas did on October 7th?

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Black Dog said:

One of the victims was a 9-year-old girl so you must be extra aroused today.

You're HAPPY to see children and people die when they're NOT people you support so it's a little late for your crocodile tears.  Just pretend he was a trump supporter., you'll be fine. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, User said:

No declaration of war? I am not sure of the nuances of Israeli "declarations of war," but Israel has fully authorized their leadership to carry out military operations against Hezbollah as they have been doing so for many months now as Hezbollah has been continually launching rockets and attacking Northern Israel. 

 

A military operation against a terrorist group is one thing especially if it's been publically announced like that.  Blowing up a known base camp or attacking a launch facility is one thing. 

But this is more random.  You don't know where those pagers are going to end up. You can't be sure that you're taking out legit targets. 

This is very different than gaza which is a declared war and where israel warns the population of threats due to military action. 

You can't just randomly put 1000 bombs in a country with no control and then detonate them around other people. 

Edited September 18, 2024 by CdnFox

[NAME REMOVED]

2 hours ago, Black Dog said:

One of the victims was a 9-year-old girl so you must be extra aroused today.

Collateral damage.

[User]

28 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

A military operation against a terrorist group is one thing especially if it's been publically announced like that.  Blowing up a known base camp or attacking a launch facility is one thing. 

But this is more random.  You don't know where those pagers are going to end up. You can't be sure that you're taking out legit targets. 

This is very different than gaza which is a declared war and where israel warns the population of threats due to military action. 

You can't just randomly put 1000 bombs in a country with no control and then detonate them around other people. 

The point is that military action against Hezbollah doesn't require a declaration of war. They have already been engaged in direct military action against them. 

The pagers were not placed in random stores and sold to any random passerby... they were a supply chain attack that went directly to leaders throughout Hezbollah. You do know where they are going, you do know where they ended up. 

Almost any military action you are operating within degrees of certainty and risk. 

 

[CdnFox]

Just now, User said:

The point is that military action against Hezbollah doesn't require a declaration of war.

 

Agreed, sure.  Limited military action is taken by virtually every country occasionally without war.  but  it must then be somewhat 'limited' to specific threats. 

Quote

They have already been engaged in direct military action against them. 

Sure and rightly so.

Quote

The pagers were not placed in random stores and sold to any random passerby... they were a supply chain attack that went directly to leaders throughout Hezbollah.

That's what they hoped.  But there's no guarantee that would happen or that some kid wouldn't happen to have daddy's pager when it went off or that it didn't go off somewhere like a gas station or on a plane or while the guy was driving a truck leading to civilian casualties without any announcement or declaration. 

That's over a line.  I get your point that the target is NOT civvies. They were targeting hezbolla.  But still, its random enough that people who are just civillians could easily get hurt or killed as they went about their normal business. 

5 minutes ago, User said:

Almost any military action you are operating within degrees of certainty and risk. 

If you deliberately attack a specific military target such as a rocket launch facility or weapons store then those losses are accepted.  IF you just randomly drop bombs on a city hoping one of them will hit a bad guy that is widely seen as being utterly unacceptable. 

This is somewhere in between.  While they were aiming for hezbolla the fact is there was a lot of randomness to the attack, others were hurt or killed including  a small boy, and people just going about their lives would have been at risk of death. 

That's too far.  You're putting innocents at risk without declaration in a fairly random manner.  LIke i said  what if a guy was driving  a heavy truck when it went off and he crashed into oncoming traffic or a crowd?  This is way too untargeted to be legit outside of a declared war. 

[User]

2 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Agreed, sure.  Limited military action is taken by virtually every country occasionally without war.  but  it must then be somewhat 'limited' to specific threats. 

No, it doesn't. Show me the Israeli law being violated here that demands any such action must have been part of some kind of formal declaration of war, if this was indeed Israel.

And, Hezbollah is a specific threat. 

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's what they hoped.  But there's no guarantee that would happen or that some kid wouldn't happen to have daddy's pager when it went off or that it didn't go off somewhere like a gas station or on a plane or while the guy was driving a truck leading to civilian casualties without any announcement or declaration. 

This is the case for almost any military action against an enemy who by their very nature operate as terrorists hiding among the population. 

Anytime Israel does anything in Gaza to target Hamas... there could be a kid in the building. 

There are no guarantees. There is only degree of risk and certainty. 

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

IF you just randomly drop bombs on a city hoping one of them will hit a bad guy that is widely seen as being utterly unacceptable. 

This was not random. 

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

That's too far.  You're putting innocents at risk without declaration in a fairly random manner.  LIke i said  what if a guy was driving  a heavy truck when it went off and he crashed into oncoming traffic or a crowd?  This is way too untargeted to be legit outside of a declared war

Declared war has nothing to do with anything. As was my original point here. 

Hezbollah puts innocents at risk as they choose to fight the way they do. They were specifically targetted. 

[TreeBeard]

This seemed more terroristic than the terrorists.  Does anyone else think there needs to be a level to which we wouldn’t stoop?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, User said:

No, it doesn't. Show me the Israeli law being violated here that demands any such action must have been part of some kind of formal declaration of war, if this was indeed Israel.

And, Hezbollah is a specific threat. 

International law forbids unreasonably or unjustly placing citizens at risk. This has been discussed a lot during the war. My opinion is what it is but this appears to be a little over the line.  

And no, Hezbolla is a general threat.  A rocket launcher is a specific threat. 

1 hour ago, User said:

This is the case for almost any military action against an enemy who by their very nature operate as terrorists hiding among the population. 

No, it isn't.  Again this has been discussed during the recent war. You can't indiscriminately risk civies.  Dropping a bomb to hit a known terrorist who's in a building is one thing. Carpet bombing the neighborhood is NOT ok.  It's accepted that sometimes there's NO WAY TO AVOID civvie deaths but that is very different than wantonly killing civvies. They have to keep it as limited as reasonably possible.  1000 randomly located explosions isn't reasonbly limiting anything  

And that's in a declared war. And after notice has been given that there would be combat activity in that area.  

You can't just dismiss civillian losses as 'Oh well, combat".  

1 hour ago, User said:

Declared war has nothing to do with anything.

It absolutely does.  That's why countries declare war. 

In a declared war you are advising the other country and it's population that hostilities are imminent and that they should be prepared for that and take steps to avoid being killed if possible. That might include going out less, being aware of where local bomb shelters are,  keeping their children at home, whatever.  They can take steps to avoid possible hostilities. 

It also puts their military etc on notice - Keep your forces away from civvies if you don't want to see them hurt.  If they then choose to hide behind people, not your fault. 

1 hour ago, User said:

Hezbollah puts innocents at risk as they choose to fight the way they do.

Sure - criminal terrorist organizations behave like criminals and terrorists.  But that doesn't make it ok for israel to do the same. 

[User]

54 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

This seemed more terroristic than the terrorists.  Does anyone else think there needs to be a level to which we wouldn’t stoop?

Here, lets make this simple to understand. 

Actual terrorists would have randomly bombed civilians. 

Whoever did this targeted leadership and organization members of a terrorist organization that came with some collateral damage.

 

[User]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

International law forbids unreasonably or unjustly placing citizens at risk. This has been discussed a lot during the war. My opinion is what it is but this appears to be a little over the line.  

And no, Hezbolla is a general threat.  A rocket launcher is a specific threat. 

This is arguably one of the most insanely precise targeting of enemy combatants in the history of urban warfare. 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

No, it isn't.  Again this has been discussed during the recent war. You can't indiscriminately risk civies.  Dropping a bomb to hit a known terrorist who's in a building is one thing. Carpet bombing the neighborhood is NOT ok.  It's accepted that sometimes there's NO WAY TO AVOID civvie deaths but that is very different than wantonly killing civvies. They have to keep it as limited as reasonably possible.  1000 randomly located explosions isn't reasonbly limiting anything  

And that's in a declared war. And after notice has been given that there would be combat activity in that area.  

You can't just dismiss civillian losses as 'Oh well, combat".  

They were not randomly blowing up pagers throughout Lebanon. These were very specific pagers being used by the enemies they wanted to kill. Nothing indiscriminate or random about it. 

Also... who are they declaring war against?

They are fighting Hezbollah, not all of Lebanon. 

They have been fighting for months now. It is no surprise that Israel has been targeting members of Hezbollah and their military infrastructure as they have launched thousands of rockets into Israel. 

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It absolutely does.  That's why countries declare war. 

This is circular. Israel did not have to declare war to engage in warfare with Hezbollah. I keep asking you to explain this and you don't. What exact law is it Israel is bound to or by here in that what they are doing required them to officially declare war?

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sure - criminal terrorist organizations behave like criminals and terrorists.  But that doesn't make it ok for israel to do the same. 

Specifically targeting enemy combatants is terrorism?

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, User said:

This is arguably one of the most insanely precise targeting of enemy combatants in the history of urban warfare. 

 LOL  well i see why you say that but it's not.   They didn't know who the pagers would be issued to for sure, and they didn't know that whomever they issued them to would be the ones holding them when they went off, and they coudln't be sure when they went off the person wasn't doing something that would put other people at risk.  

So while i get what you're saying, i think it's safe to say it was not terribly well targeted (usual caveates  IF it was isreal IF what they're claiming is true etc etc)

1 hour ago, User said:

They were not randomly blowing up pagers throughout Lebanon. These were very specific pagers being used by the enemies they wanted to kill. Nothing indiscriminate or random about it.

Really.  Were these people tried in a court? How do they know they were ONLY given to hezbolla? How do they know that they weren't also given to children and such of member families?  How do they know the guy wasn't driving a bus when it went off? 

Sorry but it's just not that targeted.  there's a million unknowns and variables. They did not know whose pocket that pager was in when it blew up. They did not know that it was in the pocket of a Hezbollah supporter. There isn't even any evidence that all of the people that were blown up were Hezbollah supporters.

1 hour ago, User said:

Also... who are they declaring war against?

Lebanon presumably. Similar to what happened when the US wanted to go after Bin Laden and the Taliban was supporting him. If the country won't turn these people over then you declare war in the country and move in and wipe them out. At the very least she declare a military action. Technically Vietnam I believe was a military action.

You don't start killing people at random and hope that their bad guys without warning

1 hour ago, User said:

This is circular. Israel did not have to declare war to engage in warfare with Hezbollah.

It does. It doesn't have to declare war if they're simply exercising a military action to address a clear threat such as a missile launcher or a weapons cache or the like. But if they want to wage a war on Hezbollah and they want to do it inside Lebanon then there has to be a declaration. You can't just blow up people in the middle of a public space like that

Differently. If all of a sudden people in Canada or America were dying because their cell phones were blowing up and taking off their heads because muslims were mad that Canada and America supports israel in its war against Gaza I am 100% certain you would claim that was a terrorist act. Even if the cell phones were sold by a shop that only sells to Jewish people.

Obviously you have a much higher tolerance for this kind of thing than I do, but I think this walks very close to violating the international law and frankly it makes them look indiscriminate and willing to break the law and risk populations not much differently than the terrorist groups do.

 

[User]

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 LOL  well i see why you say that but it's not.   They didn't know who the pagers would be issued to for sure, and they didn't know that whomever they issued them to would be the ones holding them when they went off, and they coudln't be sure when they went off the person wasn't doing something that would put other people at risk.  

So while i get what you're saying, i think it's safe to say it was not terribly well targeted (usual caveates  IF it was isreal IF what they're claiming is true etc etc)

What do you mean "for sure?"

They are pagers. They were explicitly ordered by Hezbollah leadership to issue to their terrorist buddies to enable communications. 

No one else uses pagers anymore and these were not going to the local radio shack to be randomly sold to the public. 

But yeah, sure, the same intelligence operation that intercepted this shipment, knew about this shipment, was able to plant the explosives... then all of a sudden vanished and they had no clue where they were going. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Really.  Were these people tried in a court?

Tried in a court? How is this even a serious question or line of reasoning? 

Israel is fighting Hezbollah right now as they are launching rockets and attacks against them almost daily now since the war in Gaza started. 

There is no capacity to arrest or bring to trial. This is as dumb as asking why the Allied forces in England didn't arrest and bring to trial all the Nazi's instead of invading on D-Day. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Sorry but it's just not that targeted.  there's a million unknowns and variables.

No, there is not a million unknowns and variables anymore than in any other military operation. This was very targetted. Again, these were not pagers just going to the local radio shacks on every street corner. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Lebanon presumably. Similar to what happened when the US wanted to go after Bin Laden and the Taliban was supporting him. If the country won't turn these people over then you declare war in the country and move in and wipe them out. At the very least she declare a military action. Technically Vietnam I believe was a military action.

We never declared war against Afghanistan... The US has not declared war since WWII. 

Are you just not grasping this? Israel is already engaged in daily military action against Hezbollah because they are engaged in daily military actions against Israel. This is already the status quo. Nothing needs to be declared. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

You don't start killing people at random and hope that their bad guys without warning

No one was killed at random. Nothing was random about this. They knew who ordered the pagers and where the pagers were going. It was targetted. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

But if they want to wage a war on Hezbollah and they want to do it inside Lebanon then there has to be a declaration.

You keep asserting this and ignoring me every time I ask you to explain where this rule is at. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

If all of a sudden people in Canada or America were dying

Are you just trying to be obtuse here? These were not random cell phones in public. They were a specific order of pagers going to a specific organization to be distributed to the members of that organization for covert communications. They. Were. Pagers. No one uses those anymore, unless you are terrorists like these guys trying to go low tech to avoid signals intelligence gathering. 

Stop trying to act like this was just some random attack on people who randomly got pagers at the local radio shack. 

11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Obviously you have a much higher tolerance for this kind of thing than I do

What I don't have tolerance for is thousands of rockets being fired into Israel killing kids at a soccer game forcing almost a hundred thousand Israelis to evacuate their homes for months with no end in sight because of it, because Hezbollah is doing that. 

[ironstone]

21 hours ago, Black Dog said:

One of the victims was a 9-year-old girl so you must be extra aroused today.

Can you name any wars in which there was no collateral damage?

What more proof do you need that Israel always goes above and beyond to avoid civilian casualties? This is in complete contrast to Hamas and Hezbollah which always target Israeli civilians.

I love Douglas Murray's take on this.

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by ironstone

[User]

1 hour ago, ironstone said:

Can you name any wars in which there was no collateral damage?

Another point I failed to make earlier too, is that while there were collateral victims and deaths here... do they think if Israel does a full scale invasion and bombardment instead... that it would be better?

Israel is trying to surgically take out Hezbollah without having to commit to a full scale war. 

This means A LOT fewer deaths and A LOT fewer civilians dead. 
 

Edited September 19, 2024 by User

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, User said:

What do you mean "for sure?"

you don't actually need me to explain what for sure means do you? They didn't know for certainty who would wind up with these pagers

Quote

They are pagers. They were explicitly ordered by Hezbollah leadership to issue to their terrorist buddies to enable communications. 

I'm sure it said that on the order right? They may have been aware that hezbollah's people ordered them. They may have believed strongly that they would mostly be issued to Hezbollah troops. But there is no way they could know that that would be the only people that would get them or use them, or with certainty that that's who they would be given to. That's just the truth. Hezbollah would not have put on the order form "Specifically only for use by Hezbollah troops". 

Hesbolla is involved with civic activities because it wins over the support of the people being a 'quazi governmental' force in the country.  How do they know some of those pagers weren't meant for those activates?

 

Quote

No one else uses pagers anymore and these were not going to the local radio shack to be randomly sold to the public. 

Tonnes of people use pagers.  Pagenet is still a major company In Canada for example.  Pagers are OFTEN given to first responders and emergency personnel because in a disaster they tend to work where cellphones often don't.  They have better 'reception' in buildings and undergrounds.  They don't interfere with certain types of electronic gear the way cell phones do.  They are cheap too so if you want to be able to get ahold of your kid and you don't want to pay for a cell plan, there you go. 

Why do you think they still make pagers if nobody uses them?

 

Quote

But yeah, sure, the same intelligence operation that intercepted this shipment, knew about this shipment, was able to plant the explosives... then all of a sudden vanished and they had no clue where they were going. 

I doubt they had any clue in the beginning. I'm sure they were aware that they were likely to be issued to Hezbollah people, but are you telling me they had a list of names? They knew exactly who was going to be getting these? They deliberately killed the  children that died apparently?

 

 

Quote

Israel is fighting Hezbollah right now as they are launching rockets and attacks against them almost daily now since the war in Gaza started. 

So bomb their rocket launch sites and if necessary bomb their headquarters and such, Or declare war and be done with it. But terrorism isn't okay just because you like the Country doing the terrorism. And this walks a little bit too close to terrorism.

 

The rest is just more of the same. It is painfully obvious that they could not have known with certainty who the end recipients would be, or that they would all be Hezbollah. They might have believed that the vast majority would be, but it's already looking like some of the injured or dead may not have been. Of course it's hard to say  WHICH IS THE POINT. This was not a targeted strike on a specific facility of military value, these attacks happened to random locations all over the country without any care in the world as to what those people might have been doing or what danger others would have been put in as a result.

Obviously you're comfortable with that. And that's fine, that can be your opinion if that's what your opinion is. My opinion is that it's Over a line and way too close to terrorism to be acceptable. IF you want to fight a war declare war, if you don't then your strikes have to be very specific and targeted and this just wasn't. 

[User]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

you don't actually need me to explain what for sure means do you? They didn't know for certainty who would wind up with these pagers

I need you to explain whatever unrealistic standards you are setting here. Nothing is "for sure"

As I have said several times, it is all a degree of risk and certainty in almost any military operation to kill the bad guys. 

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

But there is no way they could know that that would be the only people that would get them or use them, or with certainty that that's who they would be given to.

Again, degrees of certainty. You have some unrealistic standard that they must have known that "only" Hezbollah would have them. That is absurdly unrealistic. 

6 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Hesbolla is involved with civic activities because it wins over the support of the people being a 'quazi governmental' force in the country.  How do they know some of those pagers weren't meant for those activates?

You are just gas lighting now. A terrorist organization engaged in warfare against Israel doesn't need to use pagers to engage in civic activities. 

12 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Why do you think they still make pagers if nobody uses them?

Its a figure of speech man, to highlight the absurdity of your claims this was random and indiscriminate. 

The fact that some pagers are still in use in very specific industries and use cases, doesn't change the point I am making that pagers are not something in common use by the general public like they used to be. 

To the point here... these pagers were not randomly targetted or indiscriminate. 

 

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I doubt they had any clue in the beginning. I'm sure they were aware that they were likely to be issued to Hezbollah people, but are you telling me they had a list of names? They knew exactly who was going to be getting these? They deliberately killed the  children that died apparently?

Yet again, it is all degrees of certainty. 

15 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So bomb their rocket launch sites and if necessary bomb their headquarters and such, Or declare war and be done with it. But terrorism isn't okay just because you like the Country doing the terrorism. And this walks a little bit too close to terrorism.

I see... so, you want full scale invasion and war, which would result in far more civilian deaths and tragedy... because a very targetted strike on the Hezbollah terrorist members was not 100% accurate only targeting them. 

Just brilliant. I mean, really. 

16 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The rest is just more of the same. It is painfully obvious that they could not have known with certainty who the end recipients would be, or that they would all be Hezbollah.

Nothing is known with certainty. Bombing rocket launchers has no certainty they will not be hitting civilians around them. 
 

17 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

This was not a targeted strike on a specific facility of military value, these attacks happened to random locations all over the country without any care in the world as to what those people might have been doing or what danger others would have been put in as a result.

They were tiny explosives, clearly only intended to harm or kill those possessing them.

You are conflating that the people holding them were all over with the targetted strike being random, when it was not.

19 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Obviously you're comfortable with that. And that's fine, that can be your opinion if that's what your opinion is. My opinion is that it's Over a line and way too close to terrorism to be acceptable. IF you want to fight a war declare war, if you don't then your strikes have to be very specific and targeted and this just wasn't. 

Again, what rules or laws are you basing your absurd claims on about having to declare a war?

I am done asking, it is clear you are just going to continue claiming that when you have no clue. 

You are just fine with Hezbollah indiscriminately launching rockets almost daily into Israel killing kids and displacing almost a hundred thousand people from their homes. 

You absurdly think a full-scale war is somehow better than a very limited and targeted strike against Hezbollah members. 

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, User said:

I need you to explain whatever unrealistic standards you are setting here. Nothing is "for sure"

 

Don't be childish.  I don't need to explain to you that there are varying degrees of certainty.  

If you blow up a specific building that you know houses military weapons it's POSSBILE that someone innocent may be hurt but you can control that to a large degree and your TARGET is definitely military.

If you cause 2500 explosions randomly about a city with no knowledge of who specifically is being targeted or what devastation may result from that person being injured at that moment  that is a HUGE degree of uncertainty. 

and the rest is more of the same. You are trying to twist and turn and find some sort of loophole to justify your position. And so far you have been unable to.

If you attack a rocket launcher then you know with certainty that you're blowing up a rocket launcher. If you accidentally happen to injure someone else in the process that's unfortunate but you still attack a known military threat.

Israel had no control over who got these pagers. They have no control over what people were doing when the pagers went off. And they don't even have any way of knowing that they were given to combatants, these easily could have been distributed to support people or firefighters or anything that is associated with Hezbollah but not a combatant.

And I would remind you that simply being a member of Hezbollah itself is not a crime. Just like being Israeli wasn't a crime for the 1200 civilians killed in israel. 

So they have no idea if they were targeting combatants, they have no idea if in fact the people that received the pagers are actually Hezbollah, they had no way of controlling any additional damage done when the pagers randomly went off, and they did this without any declaration.

 

Those are simple facts. They cannot be argued. If Israel was behind this then they chose to commit what we would consider an act of terrorism if it happened in Canada or the us.

You can choose to be okay with that. You can choose to have the opinion that that is an acceptable circumstance given all of the conditions they face.

I do not. I think targeting civilian populations is unacceptable. I don't think it's ever okay to kill  or target non combatants.   THat's a moral and ethnical position not a factual one.  So if you've got a different opinion so be it. 

 

Edited September 19, 2024 by CdnFox