NDP kills Prop-Up deal.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Hopefully the CPC govern more to the center like Harper did, they'll govern longer that way. 

Even 5 years of Conservative government, will help undo some of the damage Trudeau did. 

Even if a liberal government is voted back in, am fine with that, as long as its not as extremist as a Justin Trudeau one.

[Dougie93]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Conservatives won the popular vote the last 2 federal elections and will win the next one as well.  Maybe the pendulum is shifting.  Hopefully its a sign that Canadians are rejecting this woke snowflake nonsense.  Anyone offended by that last sentence is part of the problem.

The 90's Liberals are probably dead, they've gone full virtue-signal just like the Democrats.  Anything that could be offensive to somebody will be suppressed and avoided.

You can't build successful policy when you suppress facts and avoid reality to spare some people's feelings.

after every dark age, comes a renaissance

but I would not expect this spiral to end anytime soon

it's beyond the control of politicians

if the Conservatives win, I would expect the culture war to escalate into even greater levels of hysteria

furthermore, the climate doom hysteria is inciting Canada to cut its own economic throat

and I don't foresee the climate doom hysteria abating, quite the opposite

I surmise that we are only at the beginning of the hard times

the consequences have only just begun to come crashing down

[Moonlight Graham]

17 hours ago, Dougie93 said:

after every dark age, comes a renaissance

but I would not expect this spiral to end anytime soon

it's beyond the control of politicians

if the Conservatives win, I would expect the culture war to escalate into even greater levels of hysteria

furthermore, the climate doom hysteria is inciting Canada to cut its own economic throat

and I don't foresee the climate doom hysteria abating, quite the opposite

I surmise that we are only at the beginning of the hard times

the consequences have only just begun to come crashing down

You can say this about every western country though.  Western civilization...stick a fork in it, it's done.

[Dougie93]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

You can say this about every western country though.  Western civilization...stick a fork in it, it's done.

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
    That mark our place; and in the sky
    The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
    Loved and were loved, and now we lie
        In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe: 
To you from failing hands we throw
    The torch; be yours to hold it high. 
    If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
        In Flanders fields.

~ Leftenant Colonel John McCrae

born;  Guelph, Ontario, 30 November 1872

died; Boulogne-ser-mer, France, 28 January 1918

[herbie]

On 9/4/2024 at 10:27 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

An election will not be called early.  NDP don't want to go down with the ship and be implicated for all the crappy policies they've supported the Liberals on.  Canadians aren't as dumb as some of you think they are.

FTFY
Lets just point a few things out to you political fledgllngs.
They accomplished all of their political objectives with only 24 members. Compared to the zero they got when they were official opposition. None of the 'crappy Liberal policies' they supported went entirely against their own. They even got PP to support anti-scab legislation that he will no doubt rescind if elected.
So they did all that they wanted, the Tories did sweet f*ck all.

What the Tories did for the NDP by sucking up to the extreme populist right was poison the very word liberal into an expletive. Look at what happened in BC, the Liberals, who were Conservatives tried to change their name and one of them simply stole the Conservative name from that long dead party, and gained huge support in the polls.

You're looking at the reverse of that. Singh got all of his goals with almost nothing in members, the Liberal Party and Trudeau continue floundering and tanking in the polls and the NDP is positioning as the alternative to the Tories that can get things done, not the Liberals. As the Tories move right, they move to center where the bulk of votes lie.

I don't see Trudeau turning surrender monkey like BC's Kevin Falcon, but a few defections might start happening, pending the byelection results. And Singh distancing himself from Trudeau should bring an NDP boost.
That's what it's all about. It's gonna be an interesting year. A go for the win.

 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

-Lets just point a few things out to you political fledgllngs.

Dude i literally just had to explain how gov't vs opposition works to you. 

 

Quote

They accomplished all of their political objectives with only 24 members

Nope.  Not even close.  They wanted pharmacare,  They had to settle for birth control and diabeties (which most provinces covered already) .  They got a watered down dental system that isn't working so far. 

And that's pretty much it. 

In exchange every single bad thing the libs did - they have to take co owenership with.  Was driving up inflation their 'objective'? Making home ownership unaffordable? any of that?

 

Quote

What the Tories did for the NDP by sucking up to the extreme populist right was poison the very word liberal into an expletive

And the dippers with them.  Look at bc as you say. The ndp, who should have walked away with the election, is now very likely to lose. 

Quote

Singh got all of his goals

In the sense that he'll get his pension, sure That was his only goal. 

As to the rest he got next to nothing. No pharmacare plan, no universal dental plan, not much else.  You COULD say he got more than nothing - but you couldn't say it loudly

IN the mean time he's ruined the name of the ndp in the provinces, he's likely to lose seats in the election, he's sold his people out for a pension. 

[herbie]

So good to hear a "qualified" counter opinion. One day we might even....

meanwhile we're stuck with tales of the inner party workings from mommy said they're just bad, mmmmkay? land.

 

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

FTFY
Lets just point a few things out to you political fledgllngs.
They accomplished all of their political objectives with only 24 members. Compared to the zero they got when they were official opposition. None of the 'crappy Liberal policies' they supported went entirely against their own. They even got PP to support anti-scab legislation that he will no doubt rescind if elected.
So they did all that they wanted, the Tories did sweet f*ck all.

What the Tories did for the NDP by sucking up to the extreme populist right was poison the very word liberal into an expletive. Look at what happened in BC, the Liberals, who were Conservatives tried to change their name and one of them simply stole the Conservative name from that long dead party, and gained huge support in the polls.

You're looking at the reverse of that. Singh got all of his goals with almost nothing in members, the Liberal Party and Trudeau continue floundering and tanking in the polls and the NDP is positioning as the alternative to the Tories that can get things done, not the Liberals. As the Tories move right, they move to center where the bulk of votes lie.

I don't see Trudeau turning surrender monkey like BC's Kevin Falcon, but a few defections might start happening, pending the byelection results. And Singh distancing himself from Trudeau should bring an NDP boost.
That's what it's all about. It's gonna be an interesting year. A go for the win.

The NDP are filled with kooks.  Most of their policy platform is just creating big expensive government bureaucracies for social programs.  They want to create a country of government dependents and dream of an even bigger nanny state.  That's not "moving to the center".  Canadians don't want that and so the NDP have never governed federally and hopefully never will.

Anyone who votes for the Liberals or NDP in the next election is either extremely naive or is a nutter and is economically illiterate.  The results speak for themselves.

The CPC moved to the center under Harper and I see no reason why PP wouldn't again.  "Harper's hidden agenda" never happened unless you hate a 2% GST cut.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

 

meanwhile we're stuck with tales of the inner party workings from mommy said they're just bad, mmmmkay? land.

 

You mean from the CPBC?  Well yes they're a bit of a mess right now.  Which is why i'm not saying they're going to win, even if they poll a little higher.  They very well could but they have not got their act together because of their sudden success and the 'non-merger-merger" which is getting reimagined ever 5 minutes. 

The ndp front lines on the ground aren't exactly spectacular but they're a lot more advanced than the CPBC and getting out the vote is everything 

we'll see. 

[herbie]

14 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The NDP are filled with kooks.  Most of their policy platform is just creating big expensive government bureaucracies for social programs.

Was hoping for more insight from you than repeating shallow babble someone else told you.

[herbie]

[WestCanMan]

On 9/4/2024 at 10:58 AM, CdnFox said:

But we'll see.  Justin has to give a throne speech and throne speeches are always confidence motions. 

I know that the budget and other major bills can be considered votes of confidence, but how is a throne speech considered so? 

Does anyone vote on it? 

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I'm not 100% up to speed on how this confidence motion thing works. 

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, WestCanMan said:

I know that the budget and other major bills can be considered votes of confidence, but how is a throne speech considered so? 

Always has been.  Basically a throne speech, which is read by the GG and not the prime minister, is a statement of the gov'ts intentions and vision for the next cycle, and the parties have to vote to accept it.  If they disagree with it then they must vote against it same as  a budget or any other similar thing. If it gets voted down it's considered to be a statement that the parliament has no confidence in the gov't or their plans, and therefore parliament cannot continue and the GG must decide how to proceed. Usually they just call an election. They COULD technically ask another party to form gov't but in most cases there's no reason to believe another party would have more of the faith of the house. 

 

[WestCanMan]

10 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

Always has been.  Basically a throne speech, which is read by the GG and not the prime minister, is a statement of the gov'ts intentions and vision for the next cycle, and the parties have to vote to accept it. 

So Trudeau just has to make it less of a throne speech and more of a reacharound speech and the NDP will all vote yea.

[CdnFox]

4 minutes ago, WestCanMan said:

So Trudeau just has to make it less of a throne speech and more of a reacharound speech and the NDP will all vote yea.

Well of course that's exactly what he's trying to negotiate right now, I'm sure.

Jaggers is trying to have his cake and eat it too. He's trying not to bring the government down while looking like he's not propping the government up. We'll see how that works out for him

[Goddess]

19 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well of course that's exactly what he's trying to negotiate right now, I'm sure.

Jaggers is trying to have his cake and eat it too. He's trying not to bring the government down while looking like he's not propping the government up. We'll see how that works out for him

He's painted himself into a corner, for sure.

[Moonlight Graham]

On 9/8/2024 at 3:52 PM, herbie said:

Was hoping for more insight from you than repeating shallow babble someone else told you.

What have the NDP done with the Liberals other than creating big government social programs?  *mic drop

[herbie]

Might as well drop the mic, that's the usual reaction of someone with nothing to say.

"other than govt social programs" WTF do you think govt is for? Passing a couple unconstitutional Crime Bills every day? Cutting taxes on the rich? Shovelling money into corporate incentives?

[Army Guy]

On 9/8/2024 at 4:52 PM, herbie said:

Was hoping for more insight from you than repeating shallow babble someone else told you.

He seems to be your candidate, tell us what has he done or accomplished, and did you like the NDP being a liberal party... 

[eyeball]

On 9/9/2024 at 1:48 PM, Moonlight Graham said:

What have the NDP done with the Liberals other than creating big government social programs?  *mic drop

Get the Liberal's to include dental and pharma care.  *applause

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Get the Liberal's to include dental and pharma care.  *applause

But they didn't. There's slightly limited access to dental care and they got birth control. They got diabetes too but almost every province already had that. And in fact most had birth control.

So they got nothing and spent billions doing it, in the meantime they also got people not being able to afford housing or food

Boy that free birth control must seem great while you're trying to remember what food tastes like

[Moonlight Graham]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Get the Liberal's to include dental and pharma care.  *applause

Those are social programs, exactly as I said.

Also, if you have a low income provinces have pharma and dental care programs already, because healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction.  They've been around for decades.  So what problem did they solve?

Edited September 11 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

9 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Those are social programs, exactly as I said.

Also, if you have a low income provinces have pharma and dental care programs already, because healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction.  They've been around for decades.  So what problem did they solve?

Almost half a million Canadians have received dental care since the NDP saw to it that Canada's national dental care plan was established.

That seems like a pretty huge problem solved to me.

[Moonlight Graham]

44 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Almost half a million Canadians have received dental care since the NDP saw to it that Canada's national dental care plan was established.

That seems like a pretty huge problem solved to me.

And what if the national program replaced the provincial ones?  You're just repeating the government-advertised numbers.  The real question is how many low-income folks received dental care that otherwise couldn't have?  Same with pharmacare.  The NDP and Liberals aren't going to tell you those numbers because they want to show people of how virtuous they are.

I don't even know the details of this funding and neither do most Canadians.  Is the federal funding just a possible "top-up" to fill gaps in already-existing provincial funding while getting people on a national program that they can take credit for?

[eyeball]

10 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The real question is how many low-income folks received dental care that otherwise couldn't have? 

More of them. And they can thank the NDP for making their lives better.