An honest conversation about Israel and Palestine: can unilateral policies work in today's world?

[myata]

This thread is for an conversation about solutions based on reason and some principles of our modern reality. Ideology, holy right, 5000 years ago please just move on elsewhere.

A solution based on mutual recognition of borders agreed by both sides: is it still possible?

[DUI_Offender]

Nothing is going to work, except the complete eradication of the Palestinians Worldwide.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, myata said:

A solution based on mutual recognition of borders agreed by both sides: is it still possible?

Only if it's secular lefties from both sides negotiating the recognition. Otherwise no. Peace is impossible with religious conservatives running so much of the world. The only path to peace following them is with force and complete annihilation of the other.

[User]

2 hours ago, myata said:

A solution based on mutual recognition of borders agreed by both sides: is it still possible?

Not for as long as the Middle East is full of people who want nothing more than the destruction of Israel and the eradication of all Jews there. 

[myata]

Doesn't look like in international politics and security world moved on much since the 17th-19th century. Nukes, the only noticeable addition? Does this open the stage for the massive return of unilateralism, on the world scale? No rules other than the might?

Edited August 23, 2024 by myata

[DUI_Offender]

4 hours ago, eyeball said:

Only if it's secular lefties from both sides negotiating the recognition. Otherwise no. Peace is impossible with religious conservatives running so much of the world. The only path to peace following them is with force and complete annihilation of the other.

Even the left is God awful, as wr have clearly seen at the pro-palestine protests.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Even the left is God awful, as wr have clearly seen at the pro-palestine protests.

You'll find no shortage of ass-holes on all sides of every issue these days.

The point everyone misses of course is that there are people on all sides who do mean well and these are the folks that need to be negotiating.

[myata]

Factually, in the world today simultaneously two large-scale unilateral conflicts are developing:

1. Putin's war in Ukraine that due to its brutality and unprecedented nature in Europe is reaching the global level by the impacts and possible consequences.

2. Hamas attack on Israel and the response action by Israel.

In addition, China action in Taiwan is more likely than it's ever been.

Is the world moving back down the axis of time? Are we heading into the 18th century style global politics, only with nukes and satellites this time around?

Clearly, great words do very little (more like nothing) to prevent that future. What could? Anything?

[User]

10 hours ago, myata said:

Clearly, great words do very little (more like nothing) to prevent that future. What could? Anything?

Electing a President like Trump, who understands how to deal with bullies on the global scale far better than Biden/Harris have been. 

[myata]

Hear, hear. We need a thug because he would know how thugs think... wait, and then what?

Will a liar and crook act and behave for a noble cause? For the better of the world and the people not his lying mouth? Has it happened, like ever? Why would it happen and how?

This is the time to think, use our brains, knowledge, lessons thinking and responsibility. Because brainless, they just smell the uncertainty in the air and jump and clap with all kind of brainless, !diotic ideas. And what if we try that? It may just work, right? Caligula, Nero, ... and so on, time after time, countless, no never enough for brainless minds.

[Nationalist]

23 hours ago, myata said:

Factually, in the world today simultaneously two large-scale unilateral conflicts are developing:

1. Putin's war in Ukraine that due to its brutality and unprecedented nature in Europe is reaching the global level by the impacts and possible consequences.

2. Hamas attack on Israel and the response action by Israel.

In addition, China action in Taiwan is more likely than it's ever been.

Is the world moving back down the axis of time? Are we heading into the 18th century style global politics, only with nukes and satellites this time around?

Clearly, great words do very little (more like nothing) to prevent that future. What could? Anything?

This is what happens when Libbies take control.

[myata]

Dead brain tunes, there's one problem: they just fail to produce factual solutions.

[Nationalist]

10 minutes ago, myata said:

Dead brain tunes, there's one problem: they just fail to produce factual solutions.

What "factual" solutions do you have to offer?

More sopping wet chickenshit no doubt.

Man is an aggressive animal by instinct. That aggression sometimes turns nasty. Especially if the aggressor realizes his foe is a limp, cowardly plank.

You Libbies love to use fear to force people to act as you want. But you refuse to use it properly. A true leader does not turn fear on his own nation. He uses it to keep the opposing nations off balance and weary of stepping out of line.

[User]

3 hours ago, myata said:

Dead brain tunes, there's one problem: they just fail to produce factual solutions.

So... Biden/Harris have been running the show from America for several years now. What factual solutions have they produced as they watched Russia invade Ukraine? As they abandoned Afghanistan and our allies and Americans and Billions in military hardware to the Taliban? As they have sat around putting more pressure and contempt on Israel than Hamas as Hamas holds Americans hostage? 

You are not interested in solutions if continued support for those 2 is what you want. 

[myata]

Dead brains cannot process objective information that isn't compatible with their dead memories. This is a known fact.

- In 2021: only a year after presidency ended in chaos that he engineered entirely with his own lies, Putin was making ultimatums to NATO, not Ukraine. Today he just forgot about it, as Sweden and Finland joined the alliance. This is an objective fact. It took two years to make it happen in reality and no fat-lipped lies.

- "The Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan", the United States–Taliban deal or the Doha Accord, was a peace agreement signed by the United States and the Taliban on 29 February 2020 in Doha, Qatar.

The US agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 within 135 days (i.e. by July 2020), followed by a full withdrawal within 14 months (i.e. by 1 May 2021) if the Taliban kept its commitments.

This are just facts - any five year old can look them up in less than a minute. But what is reality when the organ that was evolved to process it (in about four billion years) is dead? What difference could it make to a dead brain?

[Nationalist]

7 minutes ago, myata said:

Dead brains cannot process objective information that isn't compatible with their dead memories. This is a known fact.

- In 2021: only a year after presidency ended in chaos that he engineered entirely with his own lies, Putin was making ultimatums to NATO, not Ukraine. Today he just forgot about it, as Sweden and Finland joined the alliance. This is an objective fact. It took two years to make it happen in reality and no fat-lipped lies.

- "The Agreement for Bringing Peace to Afghanistan", the United States–Taliban deal or the Doha Accord, was a peace agreement signed by the United States and the Taliban on 29 February 2020 in Doha, Qatar.

The US agreed to an initial reduction of its force level from 13,000 to 8,600 within 135 days (i.e. by July 2020), followed by a full withdrawal within 14 months (i.e. by 1 May 2021) if the Taliban kept its commitments.

This are just facts - any five year old can look them up in less than a minute. But what is reality when the organ that was evolved to process it (in about four billion years) is dead? What difference could it make to a dead brain?

Ladies and gentlemen...

The above is what happens when one devotes him...her...self...to hatred. 

It's incredibly ironic the he...she...accuses others as "dead brain".

Edited August 25, 2024 by Nationalist

[myata]

No factual answers, just none? Wouldn't it be easier to just say so?

[User]

3 hours ago, myata said:

No factual answers, just none? Wouldn't it be easier to just say so?

Who are you talking to? 

[myata]

If an honest conversation isn't possible or just isn't on the agendas of the sides possibly because they have other plans, one can restate the question: is world OK with having a permanent violent conflict regularly flaring into open confrontation, for perpetuity?

At the origin, shortly after WWII it would have taken some years of probably very difficult negotiations to perhaps reach a basis that would satisfy both sides. Now we are closing in on the eighth decade and in the third generation of an active, never ending conflict. Can we ever learn?

[carepov]

Step 1: The Palestinian leaders and people of Gaza and the West Bank must recognize Israel's right to exist and stop violence.

Yes, I believe that this is possible, Egypt did it, Jordan did it and the 2 million Palestinians living in Israel did it.