The horrors of abortion which our governments support

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

What makes it wrong prior to 24 weeks. A time frame proven medically to cause no suffering to the fetus?

Try to answer without using God or religion. Logically, what makes it wrong?

No.  The main reason to oppose abortion is God and his revelation.  The fact you don't believe that does not change the fact it is the most important reason.

Pain to the fetus is an important consideration.  I don't believe those who claim there is no pain.  They may be lying. That is a compassionate reason for opposing abortion, but not the main reason. 

The main reason I am opposed to abortion is because I believe it is contrary to God's commandment "thou shalt not kill".   You don't accept the fact that this human life belongs to God.  Our bodies belong to God according to Scripture.  God determines when life ends, not man.  We don't have the right too play God.  

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't care, would be the more operative word. While I respect your right to practice your religious freedom, I draw the line when people try to push their religious beliefs onto others. Especially if used to push for legal amendments to our existing laws.

The beauty of freedom.

What you are really saying is you don't respect the freedom of speech for "religious" people.  You call it pushing their religious beliefs on others.  It is ok for you to come on this forum and push your beliefs. If a religious person or a Bible-believer pushes his beliefs you say it is offensive or unacceptable.  Freedom of speech for you but not for me.   You call that "the beauty of freedom"?  What a hypocritical belief!

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Am a rebel by nature. I don't do obedience without questions.

If something God says in the Holy Scripture is clearly wrong, we have no right to question it.  Obedience is part of life in many circumstances and situations.  When asked to do something in our jobs, we don't automatically question everything.  That sounds very problematic and troublesome.  It is not a reasonable attitude.

Questioning some things, depending what you are talking about, is reasonable, but not everything.  It depends what it is.  

 

Edited August 13 by blackbird

[User]

6 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am far from ignorant, I am quite informed actually. What is ignorant is your inability to see both sides.

Nothing you have presented so far shows my inability to see both sides. You are presenting outright lies and misinformation. My pointing this out is just that. 

7 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Look, I really do not care that you are an Israeli supporter so, arguing with me is just wasting your time.

Well, it doesn't take me much time to point out your lies at all. 

 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, User said:

Nothing you have presented so far shows my inability to see both sides. You are presenting outright lies and misinformation. My pointing this out is just that. 

Well, it doesn't take me much time to point out your lies at all. 

 

Hey, you do you and I will do mine.

I do not need or want your approval.

And. only a loser will call another poster a liar without clarification and proof. And guess what...you are that loser.

Don't make empty threats and accusations, If " it doesn't take me much time to point out your lies at all. " then do it,  lets see you try    We can wait LOL

Edited August 13 by ExFlyer

[User]

25 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

And guess what...you are that loser.

You tried to claim Israel was not letting in any medical aid or food. Its just an outright lie or spoken with no regard for caring about the truth... a lie. 

You ran away from it instead of owning up to it... which is deceptive. 

You are a liar. 

If it bothers you so much that you are called one, stop lying. If you want to play games about just being that ignorant and not a liar, then have enough integrity to own up to how ignorant you are and admit you were wrong. 

 

[ExFlyer]

44 minutes ago, User said:

You tried to claim Israel was not letting in any medical aid or food. Its just an outright lie or spoken with no regard for caring about the truth... a lie. 

You ran away from it instead of owning up to it... which is deceptive. 

You are a liar. 

If it bothers you so much that you are called one, stop lying. If you want to play games about just being that ignorant and not a liar, then have enough integrity to own up to how ignorant you are and admit you were wrong. 

 

Your reading comprehension issues prevents you from rational thinking.

 I provided links stating such. Here they are again: Seems you are not as knowledgeable as you think LOL

"It is not a lie. Israel has prevented emergency supplies from getting into Gaza. International outrage and United Nations condemn them for not allowing food and medical supplies into Gaza

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/israel-blocks-entry-food-and-aid-supplies-kills-starving-civilians-attempt-forcibly-displace-palestinians-northern-gaza-enar

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-protesters-block-aid-convoy-headed-gaza-2024-05-13/

https://www.refugeesinternational.org/reports-briefs/siege-and-starvation-how-israel-obstructs-aid-to-gaza/

As I said, I do not care a rats ass about either side and am not as narrow minded as some of you . I will never go there and if they nuke the entire region, it's OK with me. LOl LOL

 

 

Edited August 13 by ExFlyer

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The main reason to oppose abortion is God and his revelation. 

So, no logical reasoning. 

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The fact you don't believe that does not change the fact it is the most important reason.

There is no logical reason to apply it to our laws.

You have literally proven that with your reply. Nothing to do with my belief. I tend to side with logic, especially regarding medicine.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I don't believe those who claim there is no pain. 

There is medical evidence. Research. Your belief of it, is irrelevant.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

They may be lying.

That's purely opinion based, but you're welcome to refute it with data and evidence.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The main reason I am opposed to abortion is because I believe it is contrary to God's commandment "thou shalt not kill".

So no version of the Bible has ever condoned the killing of another? Brutal punishment? Violence? 

This is nothing more than attempting to suppress women's rights. Their voice.

You have yet to provide anything that speaks to otherwise.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

You don't accept the fact that this human life belongs to God.

Nope. Legally belongs to the parents. 

While I don't like abortion, I am in support to a woman's right to lawfully get one.

Any free society, should do the same.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

What you are really saying is you don't respect the freedom of speech for "religious" people. 

Oh, you can speak. But if what you're saying is hogwash, I am also free to challenge it like you can challenge me.

Freedom isn't a one way road, like you would like it to be.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

It is ok for you to come on this forum and push your beliefs.

Am supporting those beliefs with data. You have failed to do so.

I am pushing back against the propaganda you are pushing. You have supported none of your medical assertions with actual data.

You not liking to be challenged, doesn't make me any less respectful to people who practice their religion. It makes me less respectful to the message you are sending.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

If a religious person or a Bible-believer pushes his beliefs you say it is offensive or unacceptable.  Freedom

If a man told me he was deeply religious and a devout (insert religion). Told me he last sold his wife yesterday for a camel and two turtles, there is no way his line of thinking would be deemed as socially acceptable in the west. 

There is a reason for this. Women have rights here.

If another told me that a woman not dressing modestly and practicing adultery  should be punished by 40 lashes and public stoning.

There is a reason this isn't acceptable. Heck, Borat is a movie mocking those very mindsets. 

The religion has nothing to do with it. Its okay to challenge something that is wrong within one in a free society. Like suppressing womens rights.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

If something God says in the Holy Scripture is clearly wrong, we have no right to question it.

Thats where we differ. I question anything I feel is wrong.

Heck, I even question the wife, sometimes. This is far more dangerous. 

I know am not supposed to, but blind obedience is a step away from idiocy. Possibly why so many in politics use religion as a tool.

Control their minds, you can control their bodies. Am just against those latter two.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

When asked to do something in our jobs, we don't automatically question everything. 

Sure I do, if I know its wrong.

I had a boss ask me to drive a forklift onto the loading dock, to reach shelving. My forklift tipped forwards barely with one tire off of the concrete warehouse floor, and onto the metal dock.

I questioned my boss. I told him it was unsafe. I provided him with other safer ways to do so. He ordered me to do it. 

I refused. I told him the forklift would tilt forward, and someone could get killed. 

He rolled his eyes at me but what I said weighed on him, because they would up doing so in a safer way.

Nothing wrong with questioning the questionable. Yes. Even from God.

Telling me not to, makes me question you more o_O

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Questioning some things, depending what you are talking about, is reasonable, but not everything.  It depends what it is.  

There were go. That includes God.

40 minutes ago, User said:

If it bothers you so much that you are called one, stop lying.

You should take your own advice.

[Moonbox]

32 minutes ago, User said:

You tried to claim Israel was not letting in any medical aid or food. Its just an outright lie or spoken with no regard for caring about the truth... a lie. 

No, he didn't.  What he said was:

"Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or out., Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in."

Once again, you're so ideologically blind that you're left arguing absurdities.  Unless Israel's blockade is not preventing any food or medical aid from entering Gaza,  then the above statement is true and your accusations of lying are nothing but limp rhetoric. 

[User]

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

No, he didn't.  What he said was:

"Israel has Gaza completely surrounded, no way in or out., Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in."

Once again, you're so ideologically blind that you're left arguing absurdities.  Unless Israel's blockade is not preventing any food or medical aid from entering Gaza,  then the above statement is true and your accusations of lying are nothing but limp rhetoric. 

Huh?

"Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in."

That is a lie any way you want to dissect it. 

Israel is not preventing food or medical aid from getting in. Go look up the definition of prevent. He doesn't have to include "any" in the sentence. 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

You should take your own advice.

You have yet to actually point out any lie I have said here, it is just a baseless assertion, repeated over and over and over again. I ask you over and over and over again to point out the lie, you refuse. 

What you are doing is just a dumb dishonest game. 

 

[User]

15 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I provided links stating such.

What a dishonest, laughable joke. 

One link is of protestors... blocking one convoy of aid. Israel goes out and removed the protestors, aid resumes. 

One link is complaining that Israel is only providing aid in certain areas... because *GASP* they want people to leave the combat zones. 

The other link was more a long list of the same old anti-Israel BS about wanting them to end the war and how the war is causing suffering... and not enough aid is getting in. Well duh, its war. 

You can go here and see all the aid that Israel is letting in, contrary to your lies:
 

 

 

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

The main reason to oppose abortion is God and his revelation. 

So, no logical reasoning. 

The most logical reason on earth is God.

" Psalm 1   KJV

1  Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. {ungodly: or, wicked} 2  But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night. 3  And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper. {wither: Heb. fade} 

4  The ungodly are not so: but are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. 5  Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous. 6  For the LORD knoweth the way of the righteous: but the way of the ungodly shall perish. "

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

The religion has nothing to do with it. Its okay to challenge something that is wrong within one in a free society. Like suppressing womens rights.

So your only argument is to refer to Islam?  That is not Biblical Christianity.  Women are treated very well in Biblical Christianity.  Islam is different.  You apparently don't know anything about the Bible.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Nothing wrong with questioning the questionable. Yes. Even from God.

Telling me not to, makes me question you more o_O

Isn't that what i said.  You can question things if you have a valid reason.  But that is not what I was talking about.

The subject is abortion.  If the Bible is clear that God said "thou shalt not kill" and it is clear from the Bible that human life beings at conception, then you have no grounds to question that.  You can't make the argument medical science says it is ok or some abortion activist or some politicians support it or the law supports it, so it must be ok.  That is not a valid reason to question what the Bible says about the subject.

 

Edited August 13 by blackbird

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, User said:

What a dishonest, laughable joke. 

One link is of protestors... blocking one convoy of aid. Israel goes out and removed the protestors, aid resumes. 

One link is complaining that Israel is only providing aid in certain areas... because *GASP* they want people to leave the combat zones. 

The other link was more a long list of the same old anti-Israel BS about wanting them to end the war and how the war is causing suffering... and not enough aid is getting in. Well duh, its war. 

You can go here and see all the aid that Israel is letting in, contrary to your lies:
 

 

 

Yup.... you are ....Oh, it is not worth it.

You be you and the rest of the world will be what it is...realistic, not emotional.

You got skin in the game? You a jew? Or just  some emoti0nal interloper?  LOL

Have a happy slaughter LOL

Edited August 13 by ExFlyer

[User]

3 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup.... you are ....Oh, it is not worth it.

Yes, it is pretty clear being honest is not worth it to you. 

 

[ExFlyer]

6 minutes ago, User said:

Yes, it is pretty clear being honest is not worth it to you. 

 

Who is a loser?? The one that posts articles or the one not willing to accept the facts as written? (as opposed to social media tweets? LOL)

Why is it so important to you that I accept you and your words? In my eyes, you are just another anonymous zero on an internet forum. LOL

[ExFlyer]

 

 

The most logical reason on earth ........blah blah blah

 

 

The debate surrounding abortion and its moral implications often invokes deeply held beliefs, particularly when referencing scriptural texts like the Bible, which some interpret as clear on the sanctity of life from conception. While individuals may argue that cultural or scientific perspectives allow for questioning these interpretations, adherents of Biblical Christianity may contend that divine commandments should take precedence over societal norms or scientific opinions. Thus, discussions around this topic may become polarized, as they blend personal conviction, religious interpretation, and the evolving landscape of social values.

Edited August 13 by ExFlyer

[Moonbox]

2 hours ago, User said:

"Even prevents food and medical aid from getting in."

That is a lie any way you want to dissect it. 

Israel is not preventing food or medical aid from getting in. Go look up the definition of prevent. He doesn't have to include "any" in the sentence. 

For your absurdist interpretation of what he said, and for it to qualify as a "lie", he definitely does.  You can prevent "all", "most", "some" or even "none" of something.  You've assumed and now insisted on the absolute dumbest of these options.  

By your boolean logic, Ex Flyer is a liar if a single cookie or Tylenol tablet made it through the blockade.  A rational human being would therefore toss that logic aside and quickly contextualize what was actually being said.  Since nobody would seriously argue that literally no aid whatsoever was getting to Gaza, a rational human being would land on a more reasonable interpretation. 

Not so, for the blind idealogue.

 

[User]

1 minute ago, Moonbox said:

For your absurdist interpretation of what he said, and for it to qualify as a "lie", he definitely does.  You can prevent "all", "most", "some" or even "none" of something.  You've assumed and now insisted on the absolute dumbest of these options.  

In the absence of any of those qualifiers... I am only looking at the meaning of the word used. YOU are the one trying to interject some notion that I must presume it included one of those. 

In the context he used it in... you think I am choosing the dumbest one? Yeah right.

3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

By your boolean logic, Ex Flyer is a liar if a single cookie or Tylenol tablet made it through the blockade. 

Nope, his accusation was towards what Israel was doing... that doesn't mean they have to be 100% effective in doing it if one slips through the cracks. 

4 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

A rational human being would therefore toss that logic aside and quickly contextualize what was actually being said. 

A rational human being would never have made such an outlandish assertion to begin with, chose their words more carefully, or immediately owned up to what they did after. 

5 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Since nobody would seriously argue that literally no aid whatsoever was getting to Gaza

Speaking of being dishonest... that isn't what I said he said. 

You are still butt hurt over the last big discussion you and I were in like this, the only ideologue here is you, thinking this was your big aha moment. 

 

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, User said:

Israel is not preventing food or medical aid from getting in.

They have throughout the conflict, to the point many nations and bodies of foreign aid were pleading with them to open humanitarian corridors to avoid the worst case scenario. Mass famine and death. 

Them not doing it on purpose, wanting to keep pressure on Hamas, is still them restricting aid to those who aren't fighting with weapons...

Very difficult to get logistics through, in the midst of intense shelling next or near the border of entry and without a comprehensive ceasefire.

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

The most logical reason on earth is God.

You can't even elaborate on why.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

You can question things if you have a valid reason. 

I don't need a valid reason. Questioning things isn't a bad thing. Critical thinking.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

If the Bible is clear that God said "thou shalt not kill"

Are you okay with Israel defending itself in war?

Ukraine?

If someone hurt your daughter, and walked free.

There are justifiable reasons to kill someone. Many, illegal. 

Abortion is legal. Its not justifiable, in your opinion.

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

That is not a valid reason to question what the Bible says about the subject.

Sorry, but when it comes to medicine, I will side with a doctor and medicine, before I would a Bible.

 

[User]

10 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

They have throughout the conflict, to the point many nations and bodies of foreign aid were pleading with them to open humanitarian corridors to avoid the worst case scenario. Mass famine and death. 

Them not doing it on purpose, wanting to keep pressure on Hamas, is still them restricting aid to those who aren't fighting with weapons...

Very difficult to get logistics through, in the midst of intense shelling next or near the border of entry and without a comprehensive ceasefire.

Quantify what you mean "throughout the conflict" 

Like, on any particular day something happened that somehow interrupted the normal daily operations of allowing food in? 

Not doing enough, working towards doing more, and the difficulties of getting food into a combat zone != Israel is preventing it. 

No one is starving to death... or the entire population would be dead by now. This war has been going on for months. It takes about 3 weeks for someone to starve to death. Obviously, a comprehensive ceasefire is not needed. What needs to happen, is if folks like you actually care, is to demand Hamas surrender. 

[ExFlyer]

12 minutes ago, User said:

Quantify ....

No one is starving to death...

....demand Hamas surrender. 

Oh?

"The group of UN experts have blamed Israel for the onset of famine, accusing it of carrying out a “targeted starvation campaign”, largely by preventing the delivery of aid, as well as through its relentless bombardment of the Strip, which has killed at least 38,295 people – with many thousands more lost under rubble"

"https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children"

"A total 96 percent of the population of Gaza is facing acute food insecurity, with 2.15 million people at Crisis levels of hunger or worse. Almost half a million of these are in Catastrophic conditions. Increased food deliveries to the north and nutrition services have helped to reduce the very worst levels of hunger."

"“When a 2-month-old baby and 10-year-old Yazan Al Kafarneh died of hunger on 24 February and 4 March respectively, this confirmed that famine had struck northern Gaza. The whole world should have intervened earlier to stop Israel's genocidal starvation campaign and prevented these deaths,” the experts said"

 

 

Edited August 13 by ExFlyer

[Army Guy]

9 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Oh?

"The group of UN experts have blamed Israel for the onset of famine, accusing it of carrying out a “targeted starvation campaign”, largely by preventing the delivery of aid, as well as through its relentless bombardment of the Strip, which has killed at least 38,295 people – with many thousands more lost under rubble"

"https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/04/09/gaza-israels-imposed-starvation-deadly-children"

"A total 96 percent of the population of Gaza is facing acute food insecurity, with 2.15 million people at Crisis levels of hunger or worse. Almost half a million of these are in Catastrophic conditions. Increased food deliveries to the north and nutrition services have helped to reduce the very worst levels of hunger."

"“When a 2-month-old baby and 10-year-old Yazan Al Kafarneh died of hunger on 24 February and 4 March respectively, this confirmed that famine had struck northern Gaza. The whole world should have intervened earlier to stop Israel's genocidal starvation campaign and prevented these deaths,” the experts said"

 

 

Which group of UN experts UNRWA, the same organization that willing took part in the kidnaping of Israelis citizens. Yes we should listen to a group that actively and openly  supports Hamas...You are a victim of Hamas propaganda that the world has swallowed hook line and sinker...Do the people in those videos really look like they are starving..maybe we need to revisit those videos from Somalia those were people that were starving they did not have access to a full loaf of bread a day ...Famine my ass....Somalia was a famine, this is just hungry people...Even the media is buying into all this horse shit....Wonder why Hamas terrorists are not hungry, no they got enough food to carry on the fight...

How many Canadians are facing food insecurity....yes here in Canada....

Hamas is one of the worlds leading experts on propaganda, and twisting the narrative to suit their own needs.. And it is working your fully committed to their side....and in your eyes Israelis is the bad guy here, Not the terrorist....which Hamas should be routed from the area, destroyed , completely wiped out, This is war and when you play and support reindeer games this is the result....They should be rethinking who Palestinian people support and force Hamas to surrender....thats what should be happening...

 

[Army Guy]

55 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

They have throughout the conflict, to the point many nations and bodies of foreign aid were pleading with them to open humanitarian corridors to avoid the worst case scenario. Mass famine and death. 

Them not doing it on purpose, wanting to keep pressure on Hamas, is still them restricting aid to those who aren't fighting with weapons...

Very difficult to get logistics through, in the midst of intense shelling next or near the border of entry and without a comprehensive ceasefire.

Both sides must agree to a cease fire....hard to do when one side refuses most of the time, this is not just an Israelis problem...Hamas is just as guilty for not agreeing to a cease fire...funny no one mentions hamas and what influence they are bringing to the table....because it is like they are the grey men, not seen or heard from...Israel is the bad guy here, according to global media....i wonder is the hamas terrorist eating OK are they suffering like they're people... 

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Which group of UN experts UNRWA, the same organization that willing took part in the kidnaping of Israelis citizens. Yes we should listen to a group that actively and openly  supports Hamas...You are a victim of Hamas propaganda that the world has swallowed hook line and sinker...Do the people in those videos really look like they are starving..maybe we need to revisit those videos from Somalia those were people that were starving they did not have access to a full loaf of bread a day ...Famine my ass....Somalia was a famine, this is just hungry people...Even the media is buying into all this horse shit....Wonder why Hamas terrorists are not hungry, no they got enough food to carry on the fight...

How many Canadians are facing food insecurity....yes here in Canada....

Hamas is one of the worlds leading experts on propaganda, and twisting the narrative to suit their own needs.. And it is working your fully committed to their side....and in your eyes Israelis is the bad guy here, Not the terrorist....which Hamas should be routed from the area, destroyed , completely wiped out, This is war and when you play and support reindeer games this is the result....They should be rethinking who Palestinian people support and force Hamas to surrender....thats what should be happening...

 

Look, I was responding to one posters comments.

As I have said many many times, I got no skin in the game, playing devils advocate and could care less if they all kill each other.

I did not write the articles or make the statements. They are people far more knowledgeable and on site that make them.

Trying to convince me of something or to your thinking is a waste of time. Take it up with the authors

[herbie]

So can I assume that as birth control and the morning after pill are now FREE, and those reduce the need for abortion that you pro-lifers are fully in support of that policy?

Why or why not?

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

3 hours ago, blackbird said:

The most logical reason on earth is God.

You can't even elaborate on why.

"The Bible has much to say about obedience. In fact, obedience is an essential part of the Christian faith. Jesus Himself was “obedient unto death, even death on a cross” (Philippians 2:8). For Christians, the act of taking up our cross and following Christ (Matthew 16:24) means obedience. The Bible says that we show our love for Jesus by obeying Him in all things: “If you love Me, keep My commandments” (John 14:15). A Christian who is not obeying Christ’s commands can rightly be asked, “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?” (Luke 6:46).

Obedience is defined as “dutiful or submissive compliance to the commands of one in authority.” Using this definition, we see the elements of biblical obedience. “Dutiful” means it is our obligation to obey God, just as Jesus fulfilled His duty to the Father by dying on the cross for our sin. “Submissive” indicates that we yield our wills to God’s. “Commands” speaks of the Scriptures in which God has clearly delineated His instructions. The “one in authority” is God Himself, whose authority is total and unequivocal. For the Christian, obedience means complying with everything God has commanded. It is our duty to do so.

Having said that, it is important to remember that our obedience to God is not solely a matter of duty. We obey Him because we love Him (John 14:23). Also, we understand that the spirit of obedience is as important as the act of obedience. We serve the Lord in humility, singleness of heart, and love."

What does the Bible say about obedience? | GotQuestions.org

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Are you okay with Israel defending itself in war?

Ukraine?

Yes,  Self defence is acceptable.