gatomontes99 Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 I'm not sure why we don't have a thread on this. There has been a lot of controversy over two boxers in the women's event, that are men. It is clear cut, women and men are not on the same level physically and women should not fight with men in any situation. It is dangerous. But, allow me to muddy the water. Apparently both boxers have a genetic mutation called 46, XY DSD: “Morris syndrome is now called 46,XY DSD: androgen insensitivity syndrome. These people have an extremely high level of testosterone and other male sex hormones, but the testosterone does not affect the foetal cells that usually develop into male sexual organs because of a mutation in the androgen receptor gene. These people therefore have male chromosomes but are women socially and in external appearance. They do not have internal female sexual organs, and they form testicles that remain concealed in the abdominal cavity.” That is a lot harder to parse, in my opinion. They are women in their lives because they have every aspect of a women. Some can even get pregnant and have kids. But they are enjoying a lot of the physical advantages that men have because they produce testosterone at a higher level. I'll throw this out for the debate: Women's sports should be limited to people that are born female and have no testosterone. If they have this 46, XY DSD, they should be required to take testosterone suppression treatments. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 Ah good... I was just looking at my watch wondering when we would get around to this VITAL TOPIC... 2 1 2 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deluge Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 1 minute ago, gatomontes99 said: I'm not sure why we don't have a thread on this. There has been a lot of controversy over two boxers in the women's event, that are men. It is clear cut, women and men are not on the same level physically and women should not fight with men in any situation. It is dangerous. But, allow me to muddy the water. Apparently both boxers have a genetic mutation called 46, XY DSD: “Morris syndrome is now called 46,XY DSD: androgen insensitivity syndrome. These people have an extremely high level of testosterone and other male sex hormones, but the testosterone does not affect the foetal cells that usually develop into male sexual organs because of a mutation in the androgen receptor gene. These people therefore have male chromosomes but are women socially and in external appearance. They do not have internal female sexual organs, and they form testicles that remain concealed in the abdominal cavity.” That is a lot harder to parse, in my opinion. They are women in their lives because they have every aspect of a women. Some can even get pregnant and have kids. But they are enjoying a lot of the physical advantages that men have because they produce testosterone at a higher level. I'll throw this out for the debate: Women's sports should be limited to people that are born female and have no testosterone. If they have this 46, XY DSD, they should be required to take testosterone suppression treatments. It's acceptable as far as DEI is concerned. The truth is, aside from abortion rights, women are basically sh*t in the eyes of globalist overlords. 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah good... I was just looking at my watch wondering when we would get around to this VITAL TOPIC... So don't let the cyber door hit you on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironstone Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 Can it be long before most female sports records get smashed by men competing as women? And progressives are cheering it on. Quote "Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 Can the right-wing outrage machine stop implying that this is just some man trying beat up women. Because that's a good majority of the analysis I've been seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 34 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: I'll throw this out for the debate: Women's sports should be limited to people that are born female and have no testosterone. Given that all women have naturally occurring testosterone, this would mean no women could compete in women's sports lol. 1 1 1 Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchPotato Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 32 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah good... I was just looking at my watch wondering when we would get around to this VITAL TOPIC... No one said you had to participate in this vital topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Given that all women have naturally occurring testosterone, this would mean no women could compete in women's sports lol. It's ok - we will create a new sport for SNOWFLAKES GETTING UPSET ABOUT BIG NOTHINGS... You know... measure how much they shake and shimmy in response to the Breitbart headline, etc. 4 minutes ago, CouchPotato said: No one said you had to participate in this vital topic. No one said you did either. And yet here we are. Me, thinking it's ridiculous to care. And you. Caring. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 (edited) 9 minutes ago, CouchPotato said: No one said you had to participate in this vital topic. How is this a topic related to Federal Politics in the United States exactly? Edited August 2 by Black Dog 1 Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchPotato Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 Just now, Black Dog said: How is this a topic relate to Federal Politics in the United States exactly? He should have put it in a different sub forum. That is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted August 2 Author Report Share Posted August 2 11 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Given that all women have naturally occurring testosterone, this would mean no women could compete in women's sports lol. Not at the same level as men. In fact, women have very low levels compared to men: Testosterone Levels in Men vs. Women Normal testosterone levels are usually described as: 300–1,000 ng/dL for men So, yes, a test would be a valid way to determine if a woman has a comparative, biological advantage due to a genetic abnormality. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 I'm watching Canada in the Mixed Doubles Bronze Medal match. That Dutch man is serving a Tennis Ball 100 mph at that woman's head. This is abuse!!! 😉 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 4 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: Not at the same level as men. In fact, women have very low levels compared to men: Testosterone Levels in Men vs. Women Normal testosterone levels are usually described as: 300–1,000 ng/dL for men So, yes, a test would be a valid way to determine if a woman has a comparative, biological advantage due to a genetic abnormality. Would you estimate a women like Serena Williams has more testosterone than a Justine Henin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchPotato Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 14 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: No one said you did either. And yet here we are. Me, thinking it's ridiculous to care. And you. Caring. This is a pretty weak. I didn't enter a thread I felt was unimportant to tell everyone I thought the topic was unimportant. You are really quite full of yourself to think we care. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 Just now, CouchPotato said: This is a pretty weak. I didn't enter a thread I felt was unimportant to tell everyone I thought the topic was unimportant. You are really quite full of yourself to think we care. It if wasn't a huge burden on the quality of discussion on this board and elsewhere I would shut up about it, believe me. But the attention to given such things is a bigger problem than the lady-man athlete threat that middle-aged fat guys are so concerned about... 1 1 Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dog Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 (edited) 12 minutes ago, gatomontes99 said: Not at the same level as men. In fact, women have very low levels compared to men: Yeah but you said "no testostorone." Quote So, yes, a test would be a valid way to determine if a woman has a comparative, biological advantage due to a genetic abnormality. Can you tell me why excessive levels of naturally occurring testosterone is a Bad Genetic Abnormality compared to, say, a basketball player being 7 feet tall or a swimmer having excessively long arms? Edited August 2 by Black Dog 1 Quote America...."the worlds largest, best-armed shopping mall."-Ivor Tossell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CouchPotato Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: It if wasn't a huge burden on the quality of discussion on this board and elsewhere I would shut up about it, believe me. Who are you to decide what are quality discussions? If it is so burdensome to you, one would think you would just ignore it. Are you on the high road, Mike, or a high horse? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatomontes99 Posted August 2 Author Report Share Posted August 2 3 minutes ago, Black Dog said: Yeah but you said "no testostorone." Can you tel me why excessive levels of naturally occurring testosterone is a Bad Genetic Abnormality compared to, say, a basketball player being 7 feet tall or a swimmer having excessively long arms? You should read my link. People with this abnormality are genetically male, but appear to be female. If they have male levels of testosterone, they will have male levels of muscle development. Just like putting LeBron in the WNBA isn't fair, it isn't fair to have women with male testosterone competing in women's sports. 9 minutes ago, Boges said: Would you estimate a women like Serena Williams has more testosterone than a Justine Henin? Well, just let me whip out my image level testosterone tester kit from my batman utility belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 (edited) 16 minutes ago, CouchPotato said: Who are you to decide what are quality discussions? Well you seem to be listening to my opinion, so I guess I have some impact. I do like to get high with my horse. Just carry on then. Don't be offended.... Edited August 2 by Michael Hardner Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: Ah good... I was just looking at my watch wondering when we would get around to this VITAL TOPIC... Rule of thumb: If MH doesn't care about it, no one else should talk about it. You and io should start a thread together called: "Post in this vital thread to let everyone know that you're not interested in some of the other threads". It will keep OT babble out of the other threads. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 47 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: It's ok - we will create a new sport for SNOWFLAKES GETTING UPSET ABOUT BIG NOTHINGS... Is "women on planet earth not having their own sports to compete in" just 'nothing'? Is it really less important than getting Aunt Jemima off a syrup bottle, MH? Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hodad Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 This comes up every Olympic cycle, and there is usually a lot of misinformation to go with the misplaced outrage. I wont' pretend to know the medical situation of the specific athletes in question, but regarding the OP, people with Morris syndrome can't become pregnant. They don't have the parts. But they also don't have usable testosterone. Androgen insensitivity is core of the mutation to begin with. If they were able to use testosterone they would have developed as males in utero. In fact, typical women have far more usable testosterone. So testosterone doesn't really seem to be the issue at all. IIRC, there was a large study of elite athletes connected to this topic a few years back and, surprisingly, testosterone didn't seem to have any direct correlation with elite athletic ability. A lot of the male athletes had abnormally low testosterone and a some of the women had high testosterone. But, women with androgen insensitivity (and indeed, they have been women all their lives) are overrepresented in elite athletics, so there is seemingly some other advantage being conferred, even if it's not testosterone. But in any case, it's not a new phenomenon. Women with and without AIS have been competing as long as there have been women's sports. Some win and some lose. Those with AIS clearly don't have an unbeatable advantage or anything. It's NOT like competing against men or even someone who developed as a male and then transitioned. What I find interesting about this topic is that it forces people to come face-to-face with the reality of a gender spectrum. There's a lot of chemistry going on in our bodies that makes us who we are, and a huge spectrum across most of it, much of which we don't entirely understand. I know people are, by nature, reductive. We like simple, binary situations that don't make us think too much. But every time this topic comes up it rather forces the issue. Thinking must occur. And in that thinking process people are more inclined to make room in the world, society and sport for our fellow humans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 47 minutes ago, Black Dog said: How is this a topic related to Federal Politics in the United States exactly? Because this woke BS isn't coming from Nigeria, or China, or Mexico, it's coming from leftards in the US. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
User Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 31 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: It if wasn't a huge burden on the quality of discussion on this board and elsewhere I would shut up about it, believe me. But the attention to given such things is a bigger problem than the lady-man athlete threat that middle-aged fat guys are so concerned about... I love how you like to pretend like these are not issues impacting everyone and are highly politicized with Democrats pushing this into schools and onto all girls. Are you unaware of the Biden administration's attempts to use Title 9 to rewrite the rules to force girls to have to compete against males to share locker rooms with them? No, I think you are well aware of what is going on and that this is in fact a big issue right now in sports. My guess is that you have a position on this subject you just can't defend, so you play these games instead. Quote LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 36 minutes ago, Boges said: Would you estimate a women like Serena Williams has more testosterone than a Justine Henin? Good for her. If she can make babies she's a woman. There are rules for what types of PED's athletes can take, and if Serena takes illegal PED's she should be banned. Aside from that, you go girl! Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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