CdnFox Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 Company halts construction of $2.7B battery project in eastern Ontario | CBC News Didn't we just give another company 13 billion for ev manufacture? Wanna bet they convert the plant to building regular cars or something else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 They realized the cost of labour an dhow much it is to import the needed raw materials and, like so many others came to the conclusion Canada is not a good place to manufacture anything LOL 3 Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 1 minute ago, ExFlyer said: They realized the cost of labour an dhow much it is to import the needed raw materials and, like so many others came to the conclusion Canada is not a good place to manufacture anything LOL If you read the article, it's the downturn in sales that they cited. People can't afford to pay that much more for a car. Everybody has their hand out for working people these days. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: If you read the article, it's the downturn in sales that they cited. People can't afford to pay that much more for a car. Everybody has their hand out for working people these days. "Ford says its EV sales shot up 80 per cent last year and are expected to grow about 30 per cent this year.". That is Ford alone. "EV Volumes currently forecasts that the plug-in share of light-vehicle sales will reach 12.7% in 2024, then 16.5% in 2025 and 35% in 2029." "the global electric car sales reached almost 14 million, which represented a 35% increase from 2022. This growth meant that the global electric fleet rose to 40 million in 2023. And the trend seems to stay positive in 2024." Fact is EV sales are way up and climbing. With that kind of uptick in sales, it is clear people can afford to buy them The waiting listsat dealers is long. They are bailing out because it is not economically feasible to build in Canada. The other company getting 13 billion will do the same unless they become heavily subsidized. Edited July 27 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 13 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Fact is EV sales are way up and climbing. Okay, so the press release is misrepresenting the true reason. That could very well be true. I have heard that EV sales are flagging. Let me Google that right now.. Most of the headlines say that sales of EV are not meeting projections. One of them said that sales are still increasing. When It comes to something as nebulous as economics, I like to cast a wide net. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Okay, so the press release is misrepresenting the true reason. That could very well be true. I have heard that EV sales are flagging. Let me Google that right now.. Most of the headlines say that sales of EV are not meeting projections. One of them said that sales are still increasing. When It comes to something as nebulous as economics, I like to cast a wide net. Yeah, the myth that EV sales are down is some American politicians trying to make points and using Tesla as the sample. (mostly republican as they seem to be anti EV) Fact is more, almost all vehicle manufacturers are making EV's (or PHEV) and are adding to the volume and Tesla is actually a small part of the market now. The headlines are actually saying EV sales are rising. Edited July 27 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted July 27 Report Share Posted July 27 5 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: Yeah, the myth that EV sales are down is some American politicians trying to make points and using Tesla as the sample. (mostly republican as they seem to be anti EV) Fact is more, almost all vehicle manufacturers are making EV's (or PHEV) and are adding to the volume and Tesla is actually a small part of the market now. The headlines are actually saying EV sales are rising. Yes, but they can also rise and not rise as much as expected... No doubt that this is the future, but investment is about timing. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 27 Author Report Share Posted July 27 5 hours ago, Michael Hardner said: If you read the article, it's the downturn in sales that they cited. But they're still making batteries around the world What that means is that if they have to cut, they cut from the LEAST productive place first. Which means @ExFlyer was quite correct. Canada is the least attractive place to be making these batteries for some reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herbie Posted July 28 Report Share Posted July 28 Huge duties! That'll solve everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 28 Author Report Share Posted July 28 32 minutes ago, herbie said: Huge duties! That'll solve everything. It might, if they started with their duty of care to look into this stuff before signing away insane amounts of money. But they don't seem to like to do their duties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted July 28 Report Share Posted July 28 EV sales are increasing but at a much slower rate. Most of the early adopters are already in, now they were relying on the general public who are more sceptical. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted July 28 Author Report Share Posted July 28 3 hours ago, Aristides said: EV sales are increasing but at a much slower rate. Most of the early adopters are already in, now they were relying on the general public who are more sceptical. I see that plug in hybrid sales are doing better than expected. Honestly that concept always did make a hell of a lot more sense to me until we get the next big break in tech. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Volk Posted July 30 Report Share Posted July 30 On 7/27/2024 at 8:14 AM, ExFlyer said: Yeah, the myth that EV sales are down is some American politicians trying to make points and using Tesla as the sample. (mostly republican as they seem to be anti EV) Fact is more, almost all vehicle manufacturers are making EV's (or PHEV) and are adding to the volume and Tesla is actually a small part of the market now. The headlines are actually saying EV sales are rising. Unit volume may still be going up, but profits are going down. I was in the Ford dealership the other day and a Ford Lightning F150 that was going for $130k Cdn two years ago is now going for $86k. Ford is blowing out their EV truck units because no one wants them, and will be transitioning back to ICE as soon as possible. Ford is Losing More and More Money With EV Business - The Car Guide (guideautoweb.com) Quote “It doesn’t matter whether you’re black or brown or white or whatever the hell color you are — it doesn’t matter. We are all Americans, and we are going to pull together as Americans!” - Donald J. Trump, soon to be president-elect 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 On 7/29/2024 at 10:05 PM, Reg Volk said: Unit volume may still be going up, but profits are going down. I was in the Ford dealership the other day and a Ford Lightning F150 that was going for $130k Cdn two years ago is now going for $86k. Ford is blowing out their EV truck units because no one wants them, and will be transitioning back to ICE as soon as possible. Ford is Losing More and More Money With EV Business - The Car Guide (guideautoweb.com) Profits are not the topic or point. Sales are. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Volk Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 2 hours ago, ExFlyer said: Profits are not the topic or point. Sales are. without profits, the sales are meaningless. Anyone can generate sales by giving a product away for less than it's COGS. But long term that's non sustainable. Eventually the business will die, unless the government comes in with massive subsidies. A total waste of taxpayer money. Quote “It doesn’t matter whether you’re black or brown or white or whatever the hell color you are — it doesn’t matter. We are all Americans, and we are going to pull together as Americans!” - Donald J. Trump, soon to be president-elect 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted July 31 Report Share Posted July 31 29 minutes ago, Reg Volk said: without profits, the sales are meaningless. Anyone can generate sales by giving a product away for less than it's COGS. But long term that's non sustainable. Eventually the business will die, unless the government comes in with massive subsidies. A total waste of taxpayer money. Wrong. OEM.s of any product manipulate cost for sales. Profit may not be the reason for product sales. I guess government subsidy being a waste is very dependant on what business and where the business is. Subsidizing or giving grants to the auto industry affects The auto industry in Ontario provide work for at least 500,000 people. Same goes for the oil industry. 400,000 in the fishing industry. 400,000 + in the forestry industry. So really, grants and subsidies affect a lot more people , regions, cities and towns than you seem to realize. Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reg Volk Posted August 1 Report Share Posted August 1 On 7/31/2024 at 11:29 AM, ExFlyer said: Wrong. OEM.s of any product manipulate cost for sales. Profit may not be the reason for product sales. I guess government subsidy being a waste is very dependant on what business and where the business is. Subsidizing or giving grants to the auto industry affects The auto industry in Ontario provide work for at least 500,000 people. Same goes for the oil industry. 400,000 in the fishing industry. 400,000 + in the forestry industry. So really, grants and subsidies affect a lot more people , regions, cities and towns than you seem to realize. I'm not wrong. Go run a business for awhile selling your product below cost, see how long you last. So ridiculous that this even needs to be said, but such is the way with the entire "Green" movement - zero understanding of what things cost, and zero accountability when their latest foolish "Green" project goes belly up. Solyndra was a perfect example. Quote “It doesn’t matter whether you’re black or brown or white or whatever the hell color you are — it doesn’t matter. We are all Americans, and we are going to pull together as Americans!” - Donald J. Trump, soon to be president-elect 2024. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taxme Posted August 1 Report Share Posted August 1 On 7/27/2024 at 1:15 AM, CdnFox said: Company halts construction of $2.7B battery project in eastern Ontario | CBC News Didn't we just give another company 13 billion for ev manufacture? Wanna bet they convert the plant to building regular cars or something else? The company halts that project because they have finally seen the light. The EV industry is over. No one is buying those EV vehicles any longer. They are a pain in the butt and after owning an EV for ten years, a new EV battery will cost the owner around $10,000 or even more to have to buy a new battery. The big car manufacturers have seen the light that no one is buying EV's anymore and they are trying to get rid of their EV'S as quickly as possible which I am pretty sure does not make the big EV pushers for the WEF globalists very happy these days. But that makes me very happy to see those WEF globalists start to lose another one of their green pushing agendas. 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonbox Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 16 hours ago, taxme said: The company halts that project because they have finally seen the light. The EV industry is over. No one is buying those EV vehicles any longer. They are a pain in the butt and after owning an EV for ten years, a new EV battery will cost the owner around $10,000 or even more to have to buy a new battery. You're going to look really silly in a few years, lol. 1 Quote "A man is no more entitled to an opinion for which he cannot account than he does for a pint of beer for which he cannot pay" - Anonymous Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted August 2 Author Report Share Posted August 2 1 hour ago, Moonbox said: You're going to look really silly in a few years, lol. I wonder. It really does seem like the ev market is relatively niche and that niche has been largely serviced at this point. There seems to be a lot more interest in going back to plug in hybrids, which do make a lot more sense as a general use vehicle till the tech makes that last jump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 29 minutes ago, CdnFox said: I wonder. It really does seem like the ev market is relatively niche and that niche has been largely serviced at this point. There seems to be a lot more interest in going back to plug in hybrids, which do make a lot more sense as a general use vehicle till the tech makes that last jump We become narrow minded and think EV or PHEV are only a Canadian or US issue or market. EV and PHEYVsales world wide are increasing and the forecast looks like it will increase again. "In 2023, just under 60% of new electric car registrations were in the People’s Republic of China (hereafter ‘China’), just under 25% in Europe, and 10% in the United States – corresponding to nearly 95% of global electric car sales combined." https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted August 2 Author Report Share Posted August 2 34 minutes ago, ExFlyer said: We become narrow minded and think EV or PHEV are only a Canadian or US issue or market. Fair point, i'll concede that but I don't recall seeing a lot of data from other parts of the world that suggest there may be any kind of increasing demand for EV tech except possibly china who'll make their own batteries. Quote EV and PHEYVsales world wide are increasing and the forecast looks like it will increase again Phev i see some movement for but i haven't seen anything that really points to a significant increase in EV's. The opposite in fact. Quote "In 2023, just under 60% of new electric car registrations were in the People’s Republic of China (hereafter ‘China’), just under 25% in Europe, and 10% in the United States – corresponding to nearly 95% of global electric car sales combined." https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2024/trends-in-electric-cars China maybe but i addressed that - they'll make their own. but the rest.. that's pretty niche. a quarter of the people buying new cars buying ev's? I don't know, i guess we'll see. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExFlyer Posted August 2 Report Share Posted August 2 (edited) 1 hour ago, CdnFox said: Fair point, i'l..... China maybe but i addressed that - they'll make their own. but the rest.. that's pretty niche. a quarter of the people buying new cars buying ev's? I don't know, i guess we'll see. Just addressing the statements that EV's sales are going down because Ford is stopping.building them and that is why the battery plant is delayed. I believe Canadian economics is the real reason it is delayed an d, in my opinion, will never be built. (same goes for the one in BC) https://www.iea.org/reports/global-ev-outlook-2023/trends-in-electric-light-duty-vehicles Edited August 2 by ExFlyer Quote Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But you are not entitled to your own facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 On 8/2/2024 at 8:46 AM, Moonbox said: You're going to look really silly in a few years, lol. It’s funny, I seemed wrong a couple of years ago when I first started warning about a serious recession. Today everyone knows about the danger. The EV market is in upheaval of sorts, for various reasons. In a few years, hydrogen technology may have become the answer, and you may be on the wrong side of history again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suds Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 The main component of an EV battery is lithium. Lithium as a commodity has been hammered, as well as the stocks of lithium producers. This is largely due to a combination of oversupply and lack of demand. They claim this imbalance won't correct itself until at least 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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