What might "retribution" actually mean in the event of a 2nd Trump administration?

[Hodad]

Happened to listen today to an episode of This American Life from June 7. It's a very interesting examination of what Trump might mean when he threatens retribution, how he views views presidential powers, as well as how that possibility is affecting people who might be likely targets of that retribution. Interviewees include Stephanie Grisham, Alex Vindman and others who committed the sin of "crossing" Trump in some way. Also interviewed are MAGA enthusiasts who aren't at all keen on the idea of government powers being used to settle personal grudges. 

Come Retribution  Obviously, it's much better to listen and hear these people in their own voices, but there is also a transcript.

 

 

 

[robosmith]

He's said he is planning to prosecute members of the Jan 6th committee, esp Liz Cheney, now that the SCOTUS has given him the green light to DEMAND prosecutions from the DoJ. 🤮

Can't imagine what the charges would be, but there must be something....

[User]

They have nothing to worry about if they are innocent... 

[robosmith]

13 minutes ago, User said:

They have nothing to worry about if they are innocent... 

Just HUGE LEGAL BILLS. Duh

[User]

12 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Just HUGE LEGAL BILLS. Duh

ROFL. Wow... you almost get it. 

Just like the Biden Admin has weaponized the DOJ to go after folks on the right. The Process is the punishment. 

You cheer this on when it comes to January 6th and Pro-Life folks...

 

[Nationalist]

49 minutes ago, robosmith said:

He's said he is planning to prosecute members of the Jan 6th committee, esp Liz Cheney, now that the SCOTUS has given him the green light to DEMAND prosecutions from the DoJ. 🤮

Can't imagine what the charges would be, but there must be something....

Trump's new and fresh administration is going to crush a select number of Libbie liars and cheaters.

He'll also have the opportunity to pack on more judges...maybe even a new SCOTUS judge or two.

Enjoy the election sweetie...

[Hodad]

59 minutes ago, robosmith said:

He's said he is planning to prosecute members of the Jan 6th committee, esp Liz Cheney, now that the SCOTUS has given him the green light to DEMAND prosecutions from the DoJ. 🤮

Can't imagine what the charges would be, but there must be something....

Part of the story posted above include examples of how people in the administration, like John Kelly, used to head-off requests for illegal abuses of power from Trump--or sit on those requests until they were forgotten. But we know that part of Trump's plan for a second term is to avoid hiring people who might tell him "no" when he asks for those things. And we know of his plan to purge the federal bureaucracy of dedicated civil servants and replace them with Trump loyalists.

At that point, it doesn't even have to be charges. There are myriad ways to inflict pain. Remember, this is a man who has no problem with pettiness and punching down. He picked a fight with (and sicked his dogs on) a damn court clerk, FFS. 

Edited July 18 by Hodad

[robosmith]

29 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Trump's new and fresh administration is going to crush a select number of Libbie liars and cheaters.

The supervisors of the committee did not provide the EVIDENCE against Trump.

That was the SWORN testimony of WH INSIDERS. Duh

You are really confused in addition to not very bright.

[CdnFox]

35 minutes ago, User said:

ROFL. Wow... you almost get it. 

Just like the Biden Admin has weaponized the DOJ to go after folks on the right. The Process is the punishment. 


 

That is literally the term for it -  "Punishment by process".  We see it frequently, such as when charges are brought in canada even tho they know the person will get off, and dragged all the way through the process then dropped at the last second but by then tens of thousands in legal costs have been incurred.  

This is used in canada for cases involving self defense historically or firearms issues. Even tho the charge is bogus it's enough to trash someone's life defending against it only to have it dropped at the last second. 

I have a funny feeling it won't actually amount to much. But we'll see. 

[User]

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

At that point, it doesn't even have to be charges. There are myriad ways to inflict pain.

Good. You have sat here defending Biden doing this. 

[CouchPotato]

I heard he was going to invoke the Insurrection Act and deploy troops against American citizens. Then, he is going to go after Rachel Maddow, Whoopi and Joe Scarborough and put them in forced labor camps. Kinda like he did back in 2017.

Seriously, though, I don't think he will do that much.

Edited July 19 by CouchPotato

[sharkman]

8 hours ago, Hodad said:

Part of the story posted above include examples of how people in the administration, like John Kelly, used to head-off requests for illegal abuses of power from Trump--or sit on those requests until they were forgotten. But we know that part of Trump's plan for a second term is to avoid hiring people who might tell him "no" when he asks for those things. And we know of his plan to purge the federal bureaucracy of dedicated civil servants and replace them with Trump loyalists.

At that point, it doesn't even have to be charges. There are myriad ways to inflict pain. Remember, this is a man who has no problem with pettiness and punching down. He picked a fight with (and sicked his dogs on) a damn court clerk, FFS. 

Ok, so to provide some balance, why don’t you name some negatives for a second Trump administration.

[Hodad]

48 minutes ago, sharkman said:

Ok, so to provide some balance, why don’t you name some negatives for a second Trump administration.

And people like you are how we *know* that Trump and the MAGA turds are a threat to democracy. You're not even trying to hide it anymore. 

The party that used to complain primarily about "big government" is half full of people openly lusting for fascism. That's simply the government you want.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Hodad said:

And people like you are how we *know* that Trump and the MAGA turds are a threat to democracy. You're not even trying to hide it anymore. 

The party that used to complain primarily about "big government" is half full of people openly lusting for fascism. That's simply the government you want.

LOL  so you couldn't even come up with ONE negative/!?! Nothing to say other than he's a bad person for asking?!!? Trump is so perfect you could think of nothing?

Definition of a democrat:  Person who carefully examines the facts, considers all the points, examines the trackrecord, and finally picks the best candidate.  And then votes for the OTHER candidate and is mad that you don't. 

[sharkman]

2 hours ago, Hodad said:

And people like you are how we *know* that Trump and the MAGA turds are a threat to democracy. You're not even trying to hide it anymore. 

The party that used to complain primarily about "big government" is half full of people openly lusting for fascism. That's simply the government you want.

I said that because you are so brainwashed by your media that you actually believe the nonsense you wrote.  Trump is not a threat to democracy or you, he’s a threat to the Democrats.  Most of the media support the Dems and the left in general, hence your badly misinformed views.

The next 5 months are going to be crazy.  The less media you consume, the better off you will be.  BTW, the US has never been a democracy, it’s even better than that.

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, sharkman said:

I said that because you are so brainwashed by your media that you actually believe the nonsense you wrote.  Trump is not a threat to democracy or you, he’s a threat to the Democrats.  Most of the media support the Dems and the left in general, hence your badly misinformed views.

The next 5 months are going to be crazy.  The less media you consume, the better off you will be.  BTW, the US has never been a democracy, it’s even better than that.

Of course he's a threat to democracy. He literally attempted a coup to have himself illegally declared the winner during the vote certification of an election that he lost. How can you possibly believe that he's not a threat to democracy when he's literally tried to overturn democracy to seize power?

And we have seen clearly the many, many ways that he tried to abuse his power as President. You can't deny that they happened. You can only say that you don't mind corrupt, authoritarian government. 

[sharkman]

4 hours ago, Hodad said:

Of course he's a threat to democracy. He literally attempted a coup to have himself illegally declared the winner during the vote certification of an election that he lost. How can you possibly believe that he's not a threat to democracy when he's literally tried to overturn democracy to seize power?

And we have seen clearly the many, many ways that he tried to abuse his power as President. You can't deny that they happened. You can only say that you don't mind corrupt, authoritarian government. 

How can you believe that the US is a democracy?  It’s not.  Look it up.  
 

Enjoy the next 5 months.

[BeaverFever]

58 minutes ago, sharkman said:

How can you believe that the US is a democracy?  It’s not.  Look it up.  
 

Enjoy the next 5 months.

“The US is not a Democracy” is one of those untrue talking points that Republicans suddenly started saying circa 2014 when Putin started grooming Republicans with online influence campaigns that included this message . 
 

The US is a democracy….at least for now….look it up.  A Republic is type of democracy. 

[BeaverFever]

What does retribution look like?  Trump’s wannabe “Secretary or Retribution” spells it out:   A “target list” with hundreds of Trump critics, politicians and journalists to be arrested by deputized mobs of ex-military right wing extremists during “live streamed swat raids,” public show trials, etc. 

Its pure nazi jerkoff material in every sense 

 

Trump Ally Exposed for Horrific Hit List of Political Enemies

Donald Trump’s self-proclaimed “secretary of retribution” is even more bloodthirsty than the former president.
 

Donald Trump’s self-proclaimed “secretary of retribution” is touting a wild plan to arrest politicians, police officers, and journalists he views as disloyal to the former president, according to a sweeping new investigation by Raw Story.

Conservative political activist Ivan Raiklin claims to have assembled a “Deep State target list” that includes high-ranking Democrats and Republicans, U.S. Capitol Police officers, officials at the FBI and other intelligence agencies, witnesses in Trump’s impeachment trials, and journalists at The New York Times, CNN, The Washington Post, and other news outlets. Their supposed crime? Being Trump’s political enemies. And Raiklin views himself as justice incarnate.

 

During one podcast appearance earlier this year, Raiklin said his nickname was the “deep state marauder, a.k.a. the mauler.” Raiklin’s plan for what to do with his list isn’t nearly as gruesome, but it is still terrifying. He intends to enlist right-wing sheriffs to carry out mass arrests, and in May, he declared his intention to arrange “livestreamed swatting raids.”

…

 

Those arrests would be carried out by “constitutional sheriffs,” specifically a right-wing anti-government group called the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association. Those sheriffs would then deputize the 75,000 veterans Raiklin claims were dismissed from the military for refusing to comply with Covid-19 vaccine mandates, forming a rogue army intent on revenge.

…,

 

https://newrepublic.com/post/183652/trump-ally-exposed-horrific-hit-list-political-enemies

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

“The US is not a Democracy” is one of those untrue talking points that Republicans suddenly started saying circa 2014 when Putin started grooming Republicans with online influence campaigns that included this message . 
 

The US is a democracy….at least for now….look it up.  A Republic is type of democracy. 

So the people's republic of china is a democracy?  

It hinges a bit on how you define democracy and also on the practical application of that 'democracy'. 

True democracy is bad. we don't want it.  true democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. It's the tyrrany of the majority. 

What the us and canada etc have is a constitutional democracy, sometimes called a representative democracy. We are not actually 'ruled' by democracy, we use a democratic process to elect our rulers and the constitution limits their powers and protects the rights of the individual against the majority. 

So it is both true and untrue to say that the US is not a democracy. Its' governance has democratic elements but you don't get to vote on the budget, you don't get to vote on bills or proposals, you don't get any democratic say in the running of the gov't at all for the most part, but you DO get a democratic voice in who DOES run the democracy. 

We're the same in canada - this is not a democraitic gov't, this is a democratically elected gov't.  There's a huge difference.   But when people talk about living in a democracy, even tho it's not an accurate use of the word its' pretty much what they mean so...  hair split  

3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

What does retribution look like?  Trump’s wannabe “Secretary or Retribution” spells it out:   A “target list” with hundreds of Trump critics, politicians and journalists to be arrested by deputized mobs of ex-military right wing extremists during “live streamed swat raids,” public show trials, etc. 

Its pure nazi jerkoff material in every sense 

 

 

Trump Ally Exposed for Horrific Hit List of Political Enemies

Donald Trump’s self-proclaimed “secretary of retribution” is even more bloodthirsty than the former president.
 

 

Donald Trump’s self-proclaimed “secretary of retribution” is touting a wild plan to arrest politicians, police officers, and journalists he views as disloyal to the former president, according to a sweeping new investigation by Raw Story.

Conservative political activist Ivan Raiklin claims to have assembled a “Deep State target list” that includes high-ranking Democrats and Republicans, U.S. Capitol Police officers, officials at the FBI and other intelligence agencies, witnesses in Trump’s impeachment trials, and journalists at The New York Times, CNN, The Washington Post, and other news outlets. Their supposed crime? Being Trump’s political enemies. And Raiklin views himself as justice incarnate.

 

During one podcast appearance earlier this year, Raiklin said his nickname was the “deep state marauder, a.k.a. the mauler.” Raiklin’s plan for what to do with his list isn’t nearly as gruesome, but it is still terrifying. He intends to enlist right-wing sheriffs to carry out mass arrests, and in May, he declared his intention to arrange “livestreamed swatting raids.”

…

 

Those arrests would be carried out by “constitutional sheriffs,” specifically a right-wing anti-government group called the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association. Those sheriffs would then deputize the 75,000 veterans Raiklin claims were dismissed from the military for refusing to comply with Covid-19 vaccine mandates, forming a rogue army intent on revenge.

…,

 

https://newrepublic.com/post/183652/trump-ally-exposed-horrific-hit-list-political-enemies

So not trump.  Yawn. 

[Hodad]

1 hour ago, sharkman said:

How can you believe that the US is a democracy?  It’s not.  Look it up.  
 

Enjoy the next 5 months.

Lol. Of course it is, though a bit dysfunctional at the moment. What you're doing here is like grade school "fact" chucking. Just because a bird is a crow doesn't mean it's not a bird.

There are many variations within democracy. Ours is representative, and there are many flavors within that too. 

 

[sharkman]

19 minutes ago, BeaverFever said:

“The US is not a Democracy” is one of those untrue talking points that Republicans suddenly started saying circa 2014 when Putin started grooming Republicans with online influence campaigns that included this message . 
 

The US is a democracy….at least for now….look it up.  A Republic is type of democracy. 

My argument goes back a lot further than whatever propaganda about Putin and his influence is out there.  The Reagan era is when I became somewhat educated and aware of the US and its government.  

Now that I think about it, i probably learned more in secondary school.  The curriculum was not typical Canadian fare.  A Republic is distinct, and worth noting.

[BeaverFever]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

So the people's republic of china is a democracy?  

Most of the world’s democracies are republics and most of the world’s republics are democracies. Constitutional monarchy democracies like Canada and UK are in the minority.  A country can be both a democracy and a republic. 
 

9 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So it is both true and untrue to say that the US is not a democracy. Its' governance has democratic elements but you don't get to vote on the budget, you don't get to vote on bills or proposals, you don't get any democratic say in the running of the gov't at all for the most part, but you DO get a democratic voice in who DOES run the democracy. 

We're the same in canada - this is not a democraitic gov't, this is a democratically elected gov't.  There's a huge difference.   But when people talk about living in a democracy, even tho it's not an accurate use of the word its' pretty much what they mean so...  hair split  

Constitutional democracy and representative democracy are both forms of democracy.  The mythical kind of democracy where every citizen votes on laws and bills doesn’t exist and couldn’t possibly function in any population of significant size. Therefore it’s not correct to use that as the one and only definition of democracy and them say the US is not a democracy. Again, this argument only started appearing relatively recently a d it was one Russian troll farms liked to spread to undermine democracy 

[BeaverFever]

14 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

So not trump.  Yawn. 

Some of the most dangerous things about Trump are the horrible people he surrounds himself with. Who knows how many of these whackos will end up in his administration. He will appoint many unpleasant goons, who will each appoint  many unpleasant goons of their own in turn.   His bio sounds like he has good shot at a government job unothe Trump administration:

 

A former Green Beret and military intelligence officer, a lawyer, and a failed Virginia US Senate candidate, Raiklin also calls himself the “Deep State Marauder.” He’s a colleague of former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn and has been traveling the country with him this year as part of Flynn’s ReAwaken American tour. 

 

…

Raiklin was involved with Flynn’s efforts to help overturn the results of the 2020 election. He is the author of the “Operation Pence Card” memo, which proposed that Vice President Mike Pence could block certification of the election results on January 6. Raiklin’s name came up repeatedlyduring the House committee investigation of January 6, but he was never subpoenaed.

For the past six months or so, Raiklin has been circulating an enemies list of about 350 people whom he believes should be prosecuted for treason. The list, which has unnerved many democracy advocates, includes former Vice President Mike Pence, Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer, journalists, witnesses from Trump’s impeachment hearings, Capitol police officers, and more.

….

 

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/07/i-found-ivan-raiklin-the-secretary-of-retribution-at-the-republican-convention/#:~:text=I found the “Secretary of Retribution” on Tuesday%2C sitting,of former President Donald Trump.

[BeaverFever]

18 minutes ago, sharkman said:

My argument goes back a lot further than whatever propaganda about Putin and his influence is out there.  The Reagan era is when I became somewhat educated and aware of the US and its government.  

Now that I think about it, i probably learned more in secondary school.  The curriculum was not typical Canadian fare.  A Republic is distinct, and worth noting.

USA is a democracy and a republic, period. At least for now.