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Ireland, Norway, and Spain unwisely recognize a "state of Palestine".


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44 minutes ago, blackbird said:

The claim of "beatings, torture, abuse, and murder" might be a false narrative spread by their enemies.  We don't really know how much of it is true.  But you gladly believe everything their enemies say and offer no proof of anything.

I provided a link, you also presumably know how to use a search engine yourself.

And why should anyone believe what Israel says?

Why do you say I'm glad - if you're another one of these arseholes who think I take some sort of pleasure at the thought of Jews being raped and murdered you should go fu ck yourself too.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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5 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I provided a link, you also presumably know how to use a search engine yourself.

And why should anyone believe what Israel says?

Why do you say I'm glad - if you're another one of these arseholes who think I take some sort of pleasure at the thought of Jews being raped and murdered you should go fu ck yourself too.

Your dirt level comments show you badly need help.  Did you spend your life drinking and brawling in a beer parlour?

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

You can war with him into perpetuity, but ultimately, the only way to get Russia out is via negotiation. 

The only way to "have peace with Hamas" you meant? Via negotiations? Why couldn't one have peace with Hamas, if its possible with Putin? Is it because you think that you can kick Hamas's ass (that isn't a given just yet, only what you think) but admire the rough brutality of the other, bigger thug? Is it the size of the bully that accounts for most or all of that rightful wrath?

People who can think from both sides of their brain simultaneously and without any bells just fascinate me.

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

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21 hours ago, Aristides said:

"Palestine" has changed hands multiple times in its history. The Jews have as good a historical claim as any and better than most.

In whose hand was it there in 1945 when the world war ended? And who was made refugees in tents in the desert when Israeli state was declared in 1948? And still remaining refugees 70 years later?

Edited by CITIZEN_2015
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7 hours ago, myata said:

Well: no.

Israel's declaration of independence: May 14, 1948.

State of Israel admitted to UN: May 11, 1949.

Does it look like a lot of effort? The conflict: 1949 - 2029 at least (but don't hold breath). Could it have been worth just a tiny bit more of a genuine effort to find a solution acceptable to all?

One does not need to be a member of the UN to become a state, it needs recognition from other states...That being said there is a discussion within the UN about any nation getting statehood, whether it should be accepted or denied. but it is up to individual states to come forward and recognize the new state...

Yes there was a lot of effort, Israel was the last building block out of the british mandate, because there was so many problems with the Other Arab nations accepting the fact that there was going to be a jewish state amongst the arab nations...

After the war II with thousands of jews on the move, trying to find safety for their families, what exactly was the correct decision ? Now you can argue that the effort to create 2 separate states was a mistake...with the Arab population (palestinians ) seemly claiming the entire area for themselves via private ownership of land......The league of nations later the UN decided the best solution was the 2 state solution, and tough shit to those Arabs living in the new Israel state...they had choices become Israelis citizens or leave...most choose to fight....and lost any claims to their lands seized as they had abandoned most of their homes and in some cases evicted by Israelis terrorist outfits. .  

Today every nation that was  created out of that mandate is flourishing...as they seen that the continuous fighting the jews was not a profitable objective...All but two groups in that area has accepted Israel as a state, and has peace accords with Israel. 

You keep saying that if there had been "more effort" things would be different...how so? as the palestinian people want the entire area including what is today the state of Israel, is that a reasonable request ? it is a yes or no answer...If yes Where do they go, i mean you make it obvious that your not happy with the outcome of past decisions , then in your opinion where do we put them today.....

And what repercussions does that have for everyone else... other nations say Canada for instance do we force Canadians out because the land once belonged to the Natives and they lay claim to it....You open a huge can of FU once you start moving people or changing borders...my last question why is it OK for other nations to defend themselves,with no attached limitations.... but not Israel... Just the D-Day landings killed between 15 to 20,000 french civilians...these numbers would climb to hundreds of thousand by the end of the war...

i know if left to global opinion the globe would have no problem moving the jews , pushing them into the sea...

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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20 hours ago, eyeball said:

Right.  They've got nothing but contempt for that too.

Perhaps you can tell us what the point of an organization that makes up the rules but has no ability to enforce any of them...There is certainly departments within the UN that have made a difference in the world...

But most of that organization does nothing except for nations to vent to their peers, making resolutions that can not be enforced, lay sanctions that are nearly useless in deterring bad behavior. Some of these departments are run by dictators or persons with the worst human rights violations ever...

How can we sit here and cheer for an organization that really does not take itself seriously...the UN does nothing to keep the peace all of it's missions have been huge failures, it does little to feed starvation in the world, it over pays it's staff, it is riddle with corruption...

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We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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57 minutes ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

In whose hand was it there in 1945 when the world war ended? And who was made refugees in tents in the desert when Israeli state was declared in 1948? And still remaining refugees 70 years later?

The area belongs to no one, it was being administer by the British, meaning that most of the land was in private ownership, Arab, and Jewish.

Everyone was given a choice live under Jewish authority or leave...During the war, most palestinians in the area decided to take up arms against Israel, a large chunk of territory was seized by Israelis forces, others were recommended by Arab coalition to abandoned their homes because of Israelis threats...these homes were also seized....Are you suggesting there should be no consequences of fighting Israel...there are international laws against that sort of thing, not to mention Geneva conventions...or are we disregarding them to now...Why have you not asked why after 70 years these people have not been offered Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship..or moved to any other Muslim country, with similar values...i mean after 70 years one would hope your would provide a better life for your family...If they have not taken over Israel by now i don't think it is going to happen... 

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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2 hours ago, eyeball said:

I provided a link, you also presumably know how to use a search engine yourself.

And why should anyone believe what Israel says?

Why do you say I'm glad - if you're another one of these arseholes who think I take some sort of pleasure at the thought of Jews being raped and murdered you should go fu ck yourself too.

And yet the people you support do take pleasure in raping, and murdering any or all Jews....and this is the side you choose to support....Not one of your best life decisions, for you or the millions of Canadians that do the same...

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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53 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

After the war II with thousands of jews on the move, trying to find safety for their families, what exactly was the correct decision ?

Just in case, yes the correct solution was there: ensure the safety and security of the population that was already there with some temporary security mandate and mission; prevent massive influx of new population until the matters of the border and security are resolved, hardly terribly long wait after all the havoc of the war; and negotiate a stable solution that could last with all parties accepting and supporting it. Once the two states have mutually agreed borders and all security issues have been resolved, both are recognized at the same time and all restrictions and reservations lifted.

Colonial mentality and smugness contributed to the problem today along with all other real ones that you mentioned. But I don't see any valid reason or cause to rush the solution that wasn't stable on the ground; maybe self-serving smugness was indeed the main one.

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

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9 hours ago, eyeball said:

No I mean all of you - you all subscribe to religious supremacism.

Never heard of "religious supremacism".   Sounds like a new phrase you invented.

Do you believe in law and order?  Would you agree that society has to have laws and enforce them to maintain a functioning society.  We see what happens in Haiti when there is no law and order and criminals have taken over.

Israel has a perfect right to enforce law and order and oppose terrorists.  That would include putting them in detention if necessary.  They are in effect living in a state of emergency and a state of war.

In a small country like Israel with limited resources, it might not always be possible to arrange for every anarchist and terrorist to have all the niceties of lawyers, orderly court proceedings and bail because the country is in a state of emergency and perhaps is at times over run with anarchists and terrorists.  That is what happens when a country is in an emergency situation.  They have to do what is necessary to protect the authorities and citizens.

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9 hours ago, myata said:

Via negotiations?

If they want any of the hostages, that would be correct.

War is chess. 

Hamas has hostages. Russia has land.

You can only negotiate your way out of this.

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9 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

If they want any of the hostages, that would be correct.

"You can't have peace with animals."

Both sides of the brain. Talking at the same time. Just wow. Never stop amazing.

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

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21 minutes ago, myata said:

"You can't have peace with animals."

Correct.

Just like Ukraine can't have peace with Russia as long as Putin is in power.

However, only through negotiation, can either conflict end. You can't win either war. To eradicate Hamas would be to kill tens of thousands more Gazans. 

Doesn't mean everlasting peace, as Russia is known to disregard signed agreements. Hamas, let's not even start. 

28 minutes ago, myata said:

Both sides of the brain.

At least my brain is working 🤷‍♂️

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"Can't have peace with the animals". But

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

through negotiation, can either conflict end.

Can't but can? How does it work? Amazing.

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

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20 hours ago, Army Guy said:

The area belongs to no one, it was being administer by the British, meaning that most of the land was in private ownership, Arab, and Jewish.

Everyone was given a choice live under Jewish authority or leave...During the war, most palestinians in the area decided to take up arms against Israel, a large chunk of territory was seized by Israelis forces, others were recommended by Arab coalition to abandoned their homes because of Israelis threats...these homes were also seized....Are you suggesting there should be no consequences of fighting Israel...there are international laws against that sort of thing, not to mention Geneva conventions...or are we disregarding them to now...Why have you not asked why after 70 years these people have not been offered Jordanian or Egyptian citizenship..or moved to any other Muslim country, with similar values...i mean after 70 years one would hope your would provide a better life for your family...If they have not taken over Israel by now i don't think it is going to happen... 

So they lost their land and homes and became refugees in the desert and according to your international laws devised by superpowers they don't even have the right to fight back? 

Enemies of Israel are getting stronger by day. Israeli army was never so desperate as today stuck in a no-win war for 8 months, The only hope for Israel to exist next century is to  wipe off Islamic republic now and its proxies will be all gone too as Islamic republic is the head of the octopus and Hamas and hezbolah are just the arms,  and today before they get the bomb and they are only months away .

This has to be coordinated with the opposition groups in and outside Iran, the next US administration, the European allies and the regional powers like stinky Arabia for a full scale military operation against Islamic Republic. Or Israel will no longer exist sooner than you think.

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Strange to have Spain included since Spain was one of the only European countries which didn't recognize Kosovo as Spain itself has its own problems with separatists in Catalonia and the Basque Country.

As for Ireland, they have always been the most pro-Palestine country in Europe.

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On 5/31/2024 at 9:21 AM, blackbird said:

You obviously know nothing.  

 

You're saying your religion isn't supreme? 🤔

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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23 hours ago, Army Guy said:

How can we sit here and cheer for an organization that really does not take itself seriously...the UN does nothing to keep the peace all of it's missions have been huge failures, it does little to feed starvation in the world, it over pays it's staff, it is riddle with corruption...

It easy when you're an ally of a Security Council member and pretending that makes it important.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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22 hours ago, Army Guy said:

And yet the people you support do take pleasure in raping, and murdering any or all Jews....and this is the side you choose to support....Not one of your best life decisions, for you or the millions of Canadians that do the same...

Except you have no evidence of me supporting this behaviour. Unlike you who actually followed orders and kept quiet about your allies doing the same thing.

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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23 hours ago, Army Guy said:

 

How can we sit here and cheer for an organization that really does not take itself seriously...the UN does nothing to keep the peace all of it's missions have been huge failures, it does little to feed starvation in the world, it over pays it's staff, it is riddle with corruption...

Very true. The UN does nothing and is a corrupt organization. They even declared one minute silence for the death of the butcher of Tehran last week which shocked human rights organizations. F*ck UN.

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16 hours ago, blackbird said:

Never heard of "religious supremacism".   Sounds like a new phrase you invented.

You've never regarded your religion as being supreme with regards to all the others?

A government without public oversight is like a nuclear plant without lead shielding.

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51 minutes ago, -TSS- said:

Strange to have Spain included since Spain was one of the only European countries which didn't recognize Kosovo as Spain itself has its own problems with separatists in Catalonia and the Basque Country

I don't see anything unusual here. Condemning separatism within existing and recognized borders is very different from the situation where one country clearly has been transgressing beyond its internationally recognized ones. Just two different situations. No contradiction.

If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, eyeball said:

You've never regarded your religion as being supreme with regards to all the others?

Never heard Bible belief or Christianity described as "supreme".  It sounds like it is meant more like a slur of some kind.

The Bible is not an invention of men as some believe.  It is a revelation from God to man given by inspiration of the Holy Spirit.  It is truth.  The word "supreme" is a misnomer.  Using the word "supreme" sounds like it is meant to paint it as an invention of men to rule over people.   That is false.  God is sovereign and what he says in his word is absolutely true.  

If the King James Bible is studied properly and understood, at the least the central teachings understood,  and it is compared with other religions, it will be seen to be true and the others false.  I say the King James Bible (1611) because all the modern Bibles can be proven to be corrupt.  They are based on corrupt manuscripts.  The KJV is the only Bible, in English, based on the Received Text.

I would recommend you take the time to study it and learn the central teachings.  That might help to clear up some misunderstandings.  The internet has countless websites that would help with that.

There is a difference between truth and error or true and false.  I wouldn't describe it as supreme.  That kind of word seems to give other religions some legitimacy which is not deserved.  The Bible is not just another religion. The world is full of false religions.

Edited by blackbird
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