August1991 Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 24 Author Report Share Posted May 24 In the 1910s, there were several Balkan wars. The objective was clear. Defeat the Turks. But the Crimean War of the 1850s always confused me. (I remember a teacher saying, "Everyone against Russia.") We call it now World War I - at the time, the statue in Montreal refers to the Great War - because there was a World War II. Indeed, what started this Great War? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted May 27 Author Report Share Posted May 27 On either side in 2020 or so, define a win. In the 1980s, Reagan famously said about the Soviets - Communists, "We win. They lose." To me, this current 2020 war is different. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenyx75 Posted May 27 Report Share Posted May 27 I think the best case scenario at this point is that Ukraine is divided along the current lines of control. Reuters recently put out an article a few days ago with sources saying that Putin would be amenable to this solution: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-ukraine-ceasefire-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/ I think the only alternative is a continuation of the war where Ukraine loses even more territory and possibly even a nuclear escalation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted May 28 Report Share Posted May 28 Some of you would find this interesting... Â Â Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 7 Author Report Share Posted June 7 On 5/27/2024 at 10:24 AM, phoenyx75 said: I think the best case scenario at this point is that Ukraine is divided along the current lines of control. Reuters recently put out an article a few days ago with sources saying that Putin would be amenable to this solution: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/putin-wants-ukraine-ceasefire-current-frontlines-sources-say-2024-05-24/ I think the only alternative is a continuation of the war where Ukraine loses even more territory and possibly even a nuclear escalation. Best case? ==== Crimea will become part of Russia. Kiev and western Ukraine will be like Belorus. ===== Make no mistake. This is a huge disaster for American diplomacy. Worse:There is the potential of tactical nuclear bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athos Posted June 7 Report Share Posted June 7 Â The fact is that if Russia nukes Poland, London or any other European country, unfortunately the US will not come to their rescue. The USA wants the destruction of Europe. Â Â 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 10 Author Report Share Posted June 10 On 6/6/2024 at 11:17 PM, athos said: Â The fact is that if Russia nukes Poland, London or any other European country, unfortunately the US will not come to their rescue. The USA wants the destruction of Europe. Â I am Canadian. I know Americans - ordinary American people. The USA does not want the destruction of Europe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nationalist Posted June 10 Report Share Posted June 10 11 hours ago, August1991 said: I am Canadian. I know Americans - ordinary American people. The USA does not want the destruction of Europe. Maybe the average American does not but...I have to wonder why Brandon is not attending Zelinsky's peace talks? Quote Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 11 Author Report Share Posted June 11 In the 1910s, Europeans were involved in a family war. This war lasted for thirty years, from 1914-1945 You Americans foolishly got involved. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted June 12 Report Share Posted June 12 The only outcome that is compatible with any futures of the humanity that do not involve a global catastrophe in a short to medium term is the complete defeat of the Russian aggression. The association with WWII is very direct: there was no resolution that wouldn't involve the defeat of the Nazi regime. It can happen in a number of ways: - a depletion of Russia's military resources and gradual pushing it back to the internationally recognized borders, without any exceptions or compromises. - accelerating social and economic collapse in Russia - ascendance of Ukraine to NATO, temporary cessation of hostilities followed by a military defeat and/or social collapse of Russia. But there are no good scenarios for the world if Russia is allowed to prevail, even in a limited way. For the exactly same reasons as in the last century. 1 Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 On 6/12/2024 at 12:47 PM, myata said: The only outcome that is compatible with any futures of the humanity .... - accelerating social and economic collapse in Russia ... Myata, I am not a nationialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted June 14 Report Share Posted June 14 On 6/6/2024 at 9:23 PM, August1991 said: Â Worse:There is the potential of tactical nuclear bombs. There is absolutely no chance of nuclear weapons being deployed. On 6/11/2024 at 6:56 PM, August1991 said: In the 1910s, Europeans were involved in a family war. This war lasted for thirty years, from 1914-1945 You Americans foolishly got involved. This post makes absolutely no sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 7 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: There is absolutely no chance of nuclear weapons being deployed. .... No chance? America dropped two bombs on Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted June 14 Report Share Posted June 14 2 minutes ago, August1991 said: No chance? America dropped two bombs on Japan. That happened nearly 80 years ago, and the World has known for generations that a nuclear war would mean the end of humanity. Aside from that, the "nuclear scare" was mainly confined to the 50s and 60s. Don't you have more important things to worry about than something that will never occur? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 4 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: That happened nearly 80 years ago, and the World has known for generations that a nuclear war would mean the end of humanity ... I have walked around Beaumont-Hamel. Newfoundlanders. But this was 100 years ago, or so. (Trenches still exist.) Heck, curious, I walked around various battle sites of the Seven-Years War, Napoleonic Wars. ==== Tactical nuclear war is different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DUI_Offender Posted June 14 Report Share Posted June 14 21 minutes ago, August1991 said: Â Tactical nuclear war is different. Probably because it will never occur..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 For America, what is a win? Thiinking back in history, was your involvement in Versailles 1919 a win? ==== To me, Europeans between 1914-1845 once again fought - and Russians defended themselves. You Americians -like Sweded - show up, or not. Â Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 15 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said: Probably because it will never occur..... In Potsdam, Truman told Stalin what was to happen. I have been to Potsdam, walked around the room where they met. ===== Heck, I have been to Yalta - walked around the courtyard where Churchill, Stailn, Roosevelt sat. Truman, a poker player, approved the dropping of two bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 14 Author Report Share Posted June 14 Let me add this about Truman. Key West. It is a wonderful place, Eisenhower had Camp David.. Nixon had San Clemente Trudeau had Lac Harrington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phoenyx75 Posted June 14 Report Share Posted June 14 On 6/6/2024 at 8:23 PM, August1991 said: Best case? ==== Crimea will become part of Russia. Kiev and western Ukraine will be like Belorus. ===== Make no mistake. This is a huge disaster for American diplomacy. Worse:There is the potential of tactical nuclear bombs. Â Crimea returned to Russia 10 years ago: https://www.mintpressnews.com/return-russia-crimea-story-referendum-lives-since/262247/ Â As to the new parts of Ukraine that Russia has annexed since its military operation started in 2022, I can't see them giving most if not all of that up. Since right now, that's about all the land they have, barring a bit of a zone they are literally calling a buffer zone in the north. Which is why I think the best case scenario is that a peace agreement is reached wherein they keep most of what they have now. I'm thinking they may be amenable to giving up the buffer zone. I think the only reason they took it to begin with was because Ukraine was attacking the old Russian territory above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted June 15 Report Share Posted June 15 Ukraine was guaranteed its borders and independence in the Budapest Memorandum by Russia, the UK and the USA. In exchange for this guarantee, the Ukraine gave up it's nuclear weapons. (2940 nuclear warheads in 176 ICBM's and 33 heavy bombers.) Russia has already violated that pledge and when President Trump takes off next January, the USA will also breach their promise. Therefore, the guarantors must return Ukraine's nuclear weapons, all 2940 of them. Quote A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 16 Author Report Share Posted June 16 7 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said: Ukraine was guaranteed its borders... Borders? Define such a name as y kraine. ==== I am Canadian. Pierre Trudeau taught me about the dangers of nationalism. In the 1930s, we confronted ideology. But the origin was in the 1910s.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queenmandy85 Posted June 16 Report Share Posted June 16 22 minutes ago, August1991 said: Borders? Define such a name as y kraine. ==== I am Canadian. Pierre Trudeau taught me about the dangers of nationalism. In the 1930s, we confronted ideology. But the origin was in the 1910s.   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum The guarantors promised to guarantee Ukraine's existing borders as they were at the time of the signing of the agreement. If Russia wins, Ukrainians fear a second Holodomor.  Quote A friend will help you move. A good friend will help you move a body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August1991 Posted June 16 Author Report Share Posted June 16 14 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum The guarantors promised to guarantee Ukraine's existing borders as they were at the time of the signing of the agreement. If Russia wins, Ukrainians fear a second Holodomor.  I am Canadian. I want people to get along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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