Canada and intregration

[Leafless]

Is multicultualism alive and well in Canada or is it all federal smoke and mirrors.

For instance our two official languages integrated into a discriminatory official bilingualism mess in our federal public service is suppose to be -admired -successful.

I don't think that is the case when you realize it's origins was created with the same style the Muslims are trying to enforce in France the Muslim fact with the anarchist type torchings of 3,000 vehicles within two days as compared to the the activites of the FLQ in the 60's.

I look around in the bowells of public housing in our Canadian city and it is filled with minorities with reports of white tennants being harassed and threatened not to complain and are viewed as the new white minority.

Now we have Canadian officials applauding the fact Canadian Muslims are not the same as other Muslims worldwide but are only the educated ones but nevertheless have basically given them the power to do whatever they choose in Canadian society including their own communities, temples of worship and the right not to intigrate.

To have exclusive rights to ones culture in my estimation is not the meaning of the word integrate. I think multiculturalism is a dismal failure in Canada and can't wait for Mr Harper to correct this Liberal cultural boondoggle with his version of a fair , just society.

http://theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/L...PStory/National

[Leafless]

The above link won't work --This one should-

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...PStory/National

[Argus]

I would suggest that one of the factors working in Canada's favour has been our lack of multiculturalism compared to Europe. It seems to me to be a divisive factor, in that the more of it you have (France, England) the more the seperate ethnic groups believe themselves to be seperate from each other. The US has no real multiculralism and it's minorities seem better integrated than anyone elses.

Contrast this with Europe, where enormous pains have been taken to reassure immigrants of the respect in which their culture is held, and the rightness of newcomers to retain their culture. Stringent laws against offending minorities in any respect are in place, along with stringent human rights commision regulations, affirmative action programs, etc. What all of that does, on a constant, day-to-day basis, is to remind newcomers that they are "them" not "us", to remind them they are seperate, different. This tends to reinforce their own ethnic preferences for each others' company, their own sense of their ethnic pride, and their own sense of distance from the mainstream and majority.

We aren't nearly as bad as the Europeans, despite the best efforts of the NDP and many Liberals. We aren't as good as the US, however, so that we do have strong ethnic minority groups with their artificial cultural leaders (paid for by the Canadian taxpayer) always ready to take offence on behalf of their "people" at some slight or other. We are (or were until this election) heading down the same road Europe has walked before us, though, so it remains to be seen if we too will arrive where they now are.

[Michael Hardner]

France ? Have you forgotten the furor when France banned religious dress from the public school system ?

The immigration process in France is very much about integrating. The French are as proud and nationalistic as Americans are and expect immigrants to become French.

[Drea]

I look around in the bowells of public housing in our Canadian city and it is filled with minorities with reports of white tennants being harassed and threatened not to complain and are viewed as the new white minority.

What are "rich" (all white people are rich) people doing living in a tenement anyway? -- they should move to a gated "white" community where they can be "safe" from bad coloured people.

Now we have Canadian officials applauding the fact Canadian Muslims are not the same as other Muslims worldwide but are only the educated ones but nevertheless have basically given them the power to do whatever they choose in Canadian society including their own communities, temples of worship and the right not to intigrate.

I suppose they ARE different from the muslims in say, Iran. They're HERE aren't they? Some of the women have (gasp!) even gotten rid of their burkas!

OMG! INCLUDING their OWN communities -- their own TEMPLES of worship!

Want to ban Mosques? Then you'll have to ban churches as well.

For heaven's sake, let's not let all the "whities" live in "communities". They should be forced to disperse throughout the city.. not live in friggin gated communities. There they are, refusing to integrate.

To have exclusive rights to ones culture in my estimation is not the meaning of the word integrate. I think multiculturalism is a dismal failure in Canada and can't wait for Mr Harper to correct this Liberal cultural boondoggle with his version of a fair , just society.

Exclusive rights to one's culture? You can wear a sari if you really want to.

[Michael Hardner]

(all white people are rich)

Why do you think that ? Of course, plenty of white people are poor.

[Drea]

(all white people are rich)

Why do you think that ? Of course, plenty of white people are poor.

Post was entirely facetious... I should of put in a little winking icon...

Poor little white boy whining that he can't live in an immigrant "community" or go to an immigrant "house of worship" or share in the immigrants' culture.

[Leafless]

Drea

You wrote- " Poor little white boy whining that he can't live in an immigrant "community" or go to an immigrants "house of worship" or share in the immigrants culture."

Trivilization the problems of official multiculturalism which in my estimation was only created to take the emphasis off of Quebec and their Liberal fed imposing culture on the ROC will not solve any problems especially with an aggressive dominating Muslim religon and no jobs to address the needs of many immigrants.

[Michael Hardner]

Trivilization the problems of official multiculturalism which in my estimation was only created to take the emphasis off of Quebec and their Liberal fed imposing culture on the ROC...

This is highly conspiracy minded. It would be highly cynical for a government to design its entire immigration and social policy for purely political reasons, ignoring the fact that it has a negative effect. Of course, this didn't happen. Multiculturalism was designed in part to make Canada an attractive country for immigrants, to increase immigration for the common good.

You should take a page from 'The Fog of War' and empathize with your enemy.

[Argus]

France ? Have you forgotten the furor when France banned religious dress from the public school system ?

The immigration process in France is very much about integrating. The French are as proud and nationalistic as Americans are and expect immigrants to become French.

There appears to be little to no integration in France with respect to non-white immigrants.

[Argus]

(all white people are rich)

Why do you think that ? Of course, plenty of white people are poor.

Post was entirely facetious... I should of put in a little winking icon...

Poor little white boy whining that he can't live in an immigrant "community" or go to an immigrant "house of worship" or share in the immigrants' culture.

I know its considered right and proper to equate all cultures equal and wonderful. But I never have. There are few aspects to any immigrant cultures I have much regard for. I believe Canada has a wonderfully tolerant, open and free culture which respects all. In some ways, respects even things it should not.

Democracy and freedom are not brought about by laws nor protected by laws. They are brought about because the will of the vast body of the people desire them. Tolerance for the bedrock of freedom - freedom of speech - is near universal among Canadians of the centre and right. Those on the left appear to have less of a commitment to it, and many immigrants I have met and dealt with have none whatsoever.

They all mouth the proper words about respect for freedom of speech, of course. It's just that there's always a "but" in there which relates to the proper "respect" for this, that or whatever. The word "respect" seems to have become synomymous with "My beliefs must not be attacked". In other words, they support freedom of speech in theory, just not in practice, not when they disapprove of the speech, not when it offends them, not when they fear others might be swayed by that speech into further disagreement with them.

With regard to what the OP was saying about Muslims; I respect nothing about their religious culture. In fact, I have little but contempt for it. It is a closed, angry, cruel, bigoted and religiously intolerent society based on a very intolerent interpretation of their holy books. I feel no great respect that they aren't rioting when they have made it crystal clear they share the identical beliefs of all those who are - that freedom cannot permit any kind of criticism or mockery or even picturing of their glorious prophet. And if freedom cannot be allowed to criticise the prophet - or the Koran - or anything else about their glorious religious lifestyle, then there is no freedom.

I do not want to live in a country where such people and their views hold sway. It bothers me that we have as many Muslims as we do, and that they are growing in numbers very, very rapidly. I do not believe we should allow any more, on any grounds. You cannot ban a religion in a free and open society, but you can certainly do all you can to encourage these foreigners (which is what they all are) to integrate, to force a secular education upon their children, and to prevent more close-minded religious fanatics from coming here and reinforcing and adding to the numbers of their brethren here.

[Leafless]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " This is highly conspiracy minded."

Then I suppose the onus is on you to prove me wrong.

The purpose of Canada's multicultural policy 1971 was to encourage ethnic groups in Canada to MAINTAIN and SHARE their language and cultural history with other Canadians.

Now of course it can not be forgotten on top of the fact in addition to Aboriginal people and the founding British and French "official language" groups who have prority over common ethnic groups designated with as described by government as being German, Italion , Dutch, Ukranian, Chinese, Black, and Indo-Pakistani and Arab nationalities.

So in otherwords ouside of the dominating English and French the rest of the cultures including diverse Quebec can do what they want in the way of maintaining and practicing their individual associated cultures with NO emphasis on integration basically at the expense of the majority English (all under varing cultures)who are the group despite what government says who built Canada and are the ones responsible for the freedoms and previous quality lifestyle we once enjoyed.

There is a power shift in this country one you should be able to recognize as totally undemocratic that basically serves and supports one particular main official cultural group while the other cultural groups are now causing basically chaotic conditons concerning the fractionating of cultural groups destroying the notion of assimilating for the good of the country.

[JerrySeinfeld]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " This is highly conspiracy minded."

Then I suppose the onus is on you to prove me wrong.

The purpose of Canada's multicultural policy 1971 was to encourage ethnic groups in Canada to MAINTAIN and SHARE their language and cultural history with other Canadians.

Now of course it can not be forgotten on top of the fact in addition to Aboriginal people and the founding British and French "official language" groups who have prority over common ethnic groups designated with as described by government as being German, Italion , Dutch, Ukranian, Chinese, Black, and Indo-Pakistani and Arab nationalities.

So in otherwords ouside of the dominating English and French the rest of the cultures including diverse Quebec can do what they want in the way of maintaining and practicing their individual associated cultures with NO emphasis on integration basically at the expense of the majority English (all under varing cultures)who are the group despite what government says who built Canada and are the ones responsible for the freedoms and previous quality lifestyle we once enjoyed.

There is a power shift in this country one you should be able to recognize as totally undemocratic that basically serves and supports one particular main official cultural group while the other cultural groups are now causing basically chaotic conditons concerning the fractionating of cultural groups destroying the notion of assimilating for the good of the country.

We need to take a stand against muslims or any group that tries to curtail freedoms for which our ancestors fought and died for

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " This is highly conspiracy minded."

Then I suppose the onus is on you to prove me wrong.

Well, I can't.

Conspiracies are almost impossible to disprove, because of their nature. Everything is supposedly done with a secret agenda, documents are falsified etc. etc. If you believe there's a shadowy world out there that cannot be exposed, that works towards evil - how can that be disproved ?

The purpose of Canada's multicultural policy 1971 was to encourage ethnic groups in Canada to MAINTAIN and SHARE their language and cultural history with other Canadians.

Yes.

Now of course it can not be forgotten on top of the fact in addition to Aboriginal people and the founding British and French "official language" groups who have prority over common ethnic groups designated with as described by government as being German, Italion , Dutch, Ukranian, Chinese, Black, and Indo-Pakistani and Arab nationalities.

So in otherwords ouside of the dominating English and French the rest of the cultures including diverse Quebec can do what they want in the way of maintaining and practicing their individual associated cultures with NO emphasis on integration basically at the expense of the majority English (all under varing cultures)who are the group despite what government says who built Canada and are the ones responsible for the freedoms and previous quality lifestyle we once enjoyed.

I don't agree with the world 'priority' in that, but I follow you...

There is a power shift in this country one you should be able to recognize as totally undemocratic that basically serves and supports one particular main official cultural group while the other cultural groups are now causing basically chaotic conditons concerning the fractionating of cultural groups destroying the notion of assimilating for the good of the country.

Which main cultural group ?

None of what you said supports your assertion that "Trivilization the problems of official multiculturalism which in my estimation was only created to take the emphasis off of Quebec and their Liberal fed imposing culture on the ROC..."

Basically you're saying that the Liberals devised Multiculturalism as a political tool to distract the RoC from the Quebec problem. This implies that the Liberals didn't think this policy was good for Canada per se, but only sought to advance themselves politically at any cost.

I don't see it.

The policy, as I see it, is meant to encourage immigration for the good of the economy and make Canada a visible player on the world stage.

I would guess that you don't agree with immigration, or at least "non-European" immigration. I understand that change is unsettling, and that immigrants come to Canada with a different set of problems. But closing the borders based on your background is not an option politically (even the Conservatives would never do this) and closing them altogether would lead to declining population.

I trust that the children of new immigrants will be more Canadian, and their children will be even more Canadian still. So it is will all immigrants. I live in Toronto and have met these people. I have also lived as an immigrant abroad and the immigrant experience is largely the same. Integration happens, irregardless of government policy, or the religion/background of the immigrants.

[Leafless]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " What main cultural group"

There are two main official cultural groups "English and French".

The group I am reffering to which is obvious that the Liberals fostered are the French or Quebec interest which has been pursued by the Liberals since the Trudeau era.

The Liberals have always had Quebec support and a significant number of Quebec seats including a Liberal Quebec wing.

The political emphasis on a Quebec as a distinct society or a major player has been around since the Trudeau era.

I have always seen the Liberals as a Quebec party due to the political trade off (power) the Liberals were forced to surrender to obtain Quebec support which as resulted in French as an official language and official bilingualism in the federal public service along with many Charter benefits- truly a distinct society.

I believe multiculturalism was simply thrown in to take the emphasis off of Quebec as being overly catered to by the liberals and getting everything. Immigration would have happened regardless but multiculturalism is the word that made everthing look fair and equal hiding the enormous shift in power given to Quebec.

Third world immigration has politically helped the Liberals with loyality at the ballot box with the liberals packing these immigrants into important ridings in the Toronto area with insufficient infrastructure to support these foreign masses. Quebec meanwhile gets to pick and choose it's immigrants in an orderly fashion and is not forced to accept uncontrolled numbers of immigrants. Immigrants outside of Quebec seem to choose the Toronto area to reside with no interference from the Liberals to evenly distribute this immigrant population thus in effect destroying the quality of life in the Toronto area.

The number of immigrants actually needed is another controversial area and raises the question why are so many of these immigrants comong from troubled Arab countries?

Cultural differences have made White Canadians move from these crime ridden congested areas of Toronto and even force them out of public housing.

[Drea]

The number of immigrants actually needed is another controversial area and raises the question why are so many of these immigrants comong from troubled Arab countries?

People emmigrate from coutries under stife. People don't emmigrate if they are perfectly happy in their own country. In the early and middle parts of the 20th century we saw many immigrants from Europe because Europe was experiencing "stife" and hardship. Now the muslim countries are experiencing stife and hardship so the people's natural tendency is to want to leave. Europeans are just as fat and happy as Canadians so they have no reason to leave.

Cultural differences have made White Canadians move from these crime ridden congested areas of Toronto and even force them out of public housing.

I don't believe in public housing for anyone. No wonder there's "ghettos" -- when you put all the poor people in acres of run-down tenements you can surely expect they will develop a "ghetto" culture. (read: crime/drug havens)

[Leafless]

Drea

You wrote- " People immigrate from countries under stive "You have stive, you probably mean strife.

People intially immigrated to canada from Europe has there was a skill shortage and Canada offered oppurtunities across the employment spectrum with the added opportunity of being part of a new and growing country. The U.S recruited from the same source also with many opportunities.

I don't like it when I hear people like you suggesting the only reason people from Arab countries immigrate hear because of domestic internal political problems or food shortages etc. causing strife. But if this is the real reason I hope Immigration Canada takes note.

You also wrote- " I don't believe in public housing for anyone. No wonder there's "ghetto's".

I don't know where you come from but in Canada public housing is "subsidized housing". All housing can be described as institutionalized since there is no private property and everyone lives in sheltered towns villages cities etc and is surrounded by masses of people.

At one time I supplied services for equipment in public housing talked to many people and all in all public housing was the same as any other housing with a low crime rate. To-day it's a different story.

Poor people do not create "ghetto's". Ghetto's are created by people PRONE to crime who want the easy way out or simply have a poor attitude. Drugs,cheat, steal and even murder to get there own way. The system is broken in this area by not being able to rectify at this time that problem.

[Michael Hardner]

Leaf:

I believe multiculturalism was simply thrown in to take the emphasis off of Quebec as being overly catered to by the liberals and getting everything. Immigration would have happened regardless but multiculturalism is the word that made everthing look fair and equal hiding the enormous shift in power given to Quebec.

You believe that, but upon what is that belief based ? Is is mistrust of the Liberals or do you have some other evidence ?

The number of immigrants actually needed is another controversial area and raises the question why are so many of these immigrants comong from troubled Arab countries?

How many come from troubled Arab countries ?

I checked with the Stats Can...

Immigration Facts

18.4 % of immigrants come from Europe and the UK

47.2 % from Asia

12.4 % from the Americas

22 % from Africa AND the middle East.

I don't see that this is 'so many'.

[Leafless]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " You belief that, but upon what is that belief based? Is it mistrust of the Liberals or do you have some other evidence."

If your not familiar with Canadian history and it seems your not or did not even read my preceding post which partially outlined the priliminary concept concerning this Liberal-Quebec conspiracy against the ROC. Forty-five years is a long time and gave the Liberals ample time to try to justify and create a linguistic agenda to implement a dead residential language (French) in Canada to somehow be just as powerful as the commercially used English language by the majority of Canadians.

It is a well known fact that Quebec ALONE cannot exist in North America utilizing French only and only does so to-day with the assistance of many federal government programs, transfer and equalization payments, funded basically by the tax-payers of Canada but mainly Ontario and Alberta.

To debate with you in a meaningful way you must be familiar with the history of Canada from 'The Quiet Revolution' to present.

You also wrote-" How many come from troubled Arab countries." " I don't see this as so many"

In that post I also included "third world countries" which by your own numbers combined with Africa and the Middle East represents roughly 70% ethnic orgin as compared to 30% White from Europe, U.K. and the U.S.

I would say for certain this has created a large Western cultural immigration deficiecy concerning integration factors and should be reason for alarm probably something you would not agree with but many Canadians do and the proof is there.

[Michael Hardner]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " You belief that, but upon what is that belief based? Is it mistrust of the Liberals or do you have some other evidence."

If your not familiar with Canadian history and it seems your not or did not even read my preceding post which partially outlined the priliminary concept concerning this Liberal-Quebec conspiracy against the ROC. Forty-five years is a long time and gave the Liberals ample time to try to justify and create a linguistic agenda to implement a dead residential language (French) in Canada to somehow be just as powerful as the commercially used English language by the majority of Canadians.

Well, I did read your post and I'm sorry but I don't see any link between Trudeau's push for official bilingualism (which was ostensibly done to counter against separatism) and unleashing an immigration policy with a secret agenda to distract the RoC away from Quebec.

It is a well known fact that Quebec ALONE cannot exist in North America utilizing French only and only does so to-day with the assistance of many federal government programs, transfer and equalization payments, funded basically by the tax-payers of Canada but mainly Ontario and Alberta.

To debate with you in a meaningful way you must be familiar with the history of Canada from 'The Quiet Revolution' to present.

I know history but you have no proof of your belief.

You also wrote-" How many come from troubled Arab countries." " I don't see this as so many"

In that post I also included "third world countries" which by your own numbers combined with Africa and the Middle East represents roughly 70% ethnic orgin as compared to 30% White from Europe, U.K. and the U.S.

Your statement is quoted by you above.

Here's what you said: "why are so many of these immigrants comong from troubled Arab countries?"

You obviously didn't know the numbers and were just talking through your hat.

I posted that it's 22% and now you want to include third world countries in that question, and you come up with a figure of 70% somehow.

Here's how to make a good argument, Leafless. State your thesis, then the facts that support it.

Saying essentially 'Trudeau liked Quebec therefore multiculturalism and Immigration was set up to distract the RoC from Quebec' doesn't constitute proof of anything.

At this point, you should probaby just withdraw your statement and again another time with some evidence.

[Argus]

?

The number of immigrants actually needed is another controversial area and raises the question why are so many of these immigrants comong from troubled Arab countries?

How many come from troubled Arab countries ?

I checked with the Stats Can...

Immigration Facts

18.4 % of immigrants come from Europe and the UK

47.2 % from Asia

12.4 % from the Americas

22 % from Africa AND the middle East.

I don't see that this is 'so many'.

I dunno, 22% comes to about 45,000-50,000 of them per year. That's a lot, so far as I'm concerned.

[Michael Hardner]

That's a lot of people but in the context of the question it doesn't make sense.

Why do so many come from Arab countries ? And the number could be 10%.

[Leafless]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " Well I did read your post but I don't see any link between Trudeau's push for offical bilinguilism ( which was ostensibly done to counter against separatism) and unleashing an immigration policy with a secret agenda to distract ROC away from Quebec."

What evidence have you to support official bilingualism was created to counter the separation caper that has been replayed and replayed but guess what, Quebec is still part of Canada and yes with more power than ever.

Not bad for a province originally with NO LEGAL language RIGHTS outside of Quebec but who insisted on retaining their residential language and refused to be assimmilated linguistically.

Iam talking conspiracy's and if you wish to allign your thoughts to re-alligned Liberal history books go ahead and believe also Canada was founded by 'founding nations' and not WON by the British.

And I will say it again multiculturalism was implemented to place artificial political emphasis on culture to appease Quebec --to show Quebec was not the odd ball province demanding rights built on culture and to make immigrants think , yes maybe Canada does have a place for cultures.

But the strange thing is Quebec is not part of multiculturalism as it's own 'official culture' and the English also have their own 'official culture'. If this alone does not create large holes in Canada's multiculturalism image I don't know what will especially when all other cultures are beneath the 'official cultures.'

Just like to point out Michael that there has not been a country in the world EVER that has been successful in building a country built on multiculturalism.

Canada is simply a beginner in the world of multiculturalism with many problems already surfacing. We will see how long it will last before the country collapses or is taken over by an aggressive culture.

You know as well as I that COMPELLING evidence pertaining to a conspiracy of this nature is impossible to prove just as it is impossiable for you to prove what the Liberal politicians have been telling Canadians for years is true.

So go ahead Michael and drown out my theories and I will respond by drowning yours out.

Let's be clear on the numbers you posted relating to immigration which were:

18.4% of immigrants come from Europe and the U.K.

47.2% from Asia

12.4% from the Americas

22% from the Middle East

My post reflected on immigrants from troubled Arab countries and third world countries and that total to be exact rather than rounded off is 47.2Asia + 22%Middle East =69.2% ethnic immigrants. And from White countries 12.4 from Americas + 18.4 from Europe and the U.K.=30.8%.

So like I said ethnic immigration is over representented compared to White immigration in which there is no problem concerning integration.

[Michael Hardner]

What evidence have you to support official bilingualism was created to counter the separation caper that has been replayed and replayed but guess what, Quebec is still part of Canada and yes with more power than ever.

So I guess it worked. Quebec didn't separate.

Not bad for a province originally with NO LEGAL language RIGHTS outside of Quebec but who insisted on retaining their residential language and refused to be assimmilated linguistically.

Iam talking conspiracy's and if you wish to allign your thoughts to re-alligned Liberal history books go ahead and believe also Canada was founded by 'founding nations' and not WON by the British.

And I will say it again multiculturalism was implemented to place artificial political emphasis on culture to appease Quebec --to show Quebec was not the odd ball province demanding rights built on culture and to make immigrants think , yes maybe Canada does have a place for cultures.

But the strange thing is Quebec is not part of multiculturalism as it's own 'official culture' and the English also have their own 'official culture'. If this alone does not create large holes in Canada's multiculturalism image I don't know what will especially when all other cultures are beneath the 'official cultures.'

Just like to point out Michael that there has not been a country in the world EVER that has been successful in building a country built on multiculturalism.

Canada ?

What modern democracies ever espoused official multiculturalism and failed ?

Canada is simply a beginner in the world of multiculturalism with many problems already surfacing. We will see how long it will last before the country collapses or is taken over by an aggressive culture.

You know as well as I that COMPELLING evidence pertaining to a conspiracy of this nature is impossible to prove just as it is impossiable for you to prove what the Liberal politicians have been telling Canadians for years is true.

Well, certainly some of what they say is true.

I can't disprove that there isn't an alien abduction ring being run by Liberals either.

So go ahead Michael and drown out my theories and I will respond by drowning yours out.

Rather than drowning each other out, let's post facts as I did when I posted the immigration numbers.

Let's be clear on the numbers you posted relating to immigration which were:

18.4% of immigrants come from Europe and the U.K.

47.2% from Asia

12.4% from the Americas

22% from the Middle East

Middle East AND Africa.

My post reflected on immigrants from troubled Arab countries and third world countries and that total to be exact rather than rounded off is 47.2Asia + 22%Middle East =69.2% ethnic immigrants. And from White countries 12.4 from Americas + 18.4 from Europe and the U.K.=30.8%.

Ok. Well, you've changed it then. You're also including all of Asia as a third world country. ( Where does Australia come in, I wonder ? )

We're down to quibbles here, but you've changed your original statement and that's ok.

So like I said ethnic immigration is over representented compared to White immigration in which there is no problem concerning integration.

You didn't say that you said 'why are so many from Arab countries'.

Why are you not admitting that you said it based on your own feelings, not based on knowledge ? Do so, and you're off the hook.

[Leafless]

Michael Hardner

You wrote- " So I guess it worked. Quebec didn't separate."

Have you got proof Quebec ever really planned to separate? This of course would require a tremendous amount of pre-planning and none I have ever heard of or seen from any source.

You wrote - " What modern democracies ever espoused official multiculturalism and failed."

No country to date falls completely into one or another of the following categories (a) Monoculturalism ( Melting Pot © Multiculturalism. It's all relatively new and only introduced in 1970.

Canada became multi-cultural in 1971 following the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism at that time to accomodate Quebec concerns. The report also advocated the federal government recognize Canada as a bilingual and a bicultural society. This was a LIBERAL appointed commission. Canada became multicultural in 1971.

You wrote- " OK- well you've changed it then. Your also including all of Asia as a third world country. where does Australia come in I wonder."

Australia is in the Asia region but has always been a separate entity like New Zealand until recently where some in Australia would like it to be part of Asia---this is controversial and not official as far as I know.

You wrote- " You didn't say that you said "why so many from Arab countries. Why are you not admitting that you said it based on your own feelings and not based on knowledge. Do so and your off the hook."

What I said pertaining to Arab immigration was "from troubled Arab countries". This has got nothing to do with knowledge but rather 'facts' and the facts are Muslim Arabs around the world whether in the terrorist form or the immigrating form are presenting problems all over.

I also refferred to that 30.8% White identification concerning immigration numbers only to indicate compatibility with integration compared to the process of attempting to assimilate ethnics which is much more difficult and if left unchecked is the main cause of fractionating Canadian society into cultural groups--like what is happening in certain areas of Canada.