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Where's the Free Speech Outrage?


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On 5/4/2024 at 11:53 AM, Michael Hardner said:

So you want to deport people whose views you don't agree with? I hope you haven't stood up for free speech elsewhere in this forum?

I’m not proposing deportation.  I referred to the election.  I guess figures of speech are out of the question now.

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Charlotte Kates is the international coordinator for Samidoun which is closely associated with the PFLP which is a designated terrorist group. Samidoun is also listed as a terrorist organization in Germany and banned. In Canada we give it registered non profit status which makes it tax exempt.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-gets-carte-blanche-in-canada-to-glorify-hamas-massacre

 

Quote

 

Where is the outrage that we give this bunch the freedom to operate in our country and collect non taxable revenues.

Edited by Aristides
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29 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Charlotte Kates is the international coordinator for Samidoun which is closely associated with the PFLP which is a designated terrorist group. Samidoun is also listed as a terrorist organization in Germany and banned. In Canada we give it registered non profit status which makes it tax exempt.

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/group-banned-in-germany-gets-carte-blanche-in-canada-to-glorify-hamas-massacre

 

 

Where is the outrage that we give this bunch the freedom to operate in our country and collect non taxable revenues.

It’s a problem our government created through immigration, because a significant portion of our electorate doesn’t see these organizations as terrorists. Canadians have to quickly decide what kind of country they want before the demographics have shifted to the point where our own government literally seeks to undermine what most Canadians value about Canada. Do you think Trump’s attempted Muslim ban wasn’t exactly about this?  It’s not even about the question of whether there are many good Muslims who are tolerant in Canada. It’s that many are less tolerant than Christians.  Who is running our universities?  Who are our MP’s?  Do people really know or care?  I think it’s highly arguable that our country has shifted so rapidly that it’s unclear who or what our governments represent.  The ant-settler colonial narrative bandied about among many activist Indigenous and pro-Palestinians is heavily supported by our woke PM and the naive liberals running our institutions of learning and almost all large organizations.  There’s barely any Christian bulwark among those raised Christian anymore, because the secular religion of LGBTQ2S+ has replaced it in our schools, and I mean almost all schools. The only fighters with teeth in the culture wars are the government-funded LGBTQ activists and the Muslim traditionalists, as both groups are supported by liberal governments.  Their speech is the only approved speech in Canada.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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On 5/3/2024 at 1:12 AM, Moonlight Graham said:

Apparently the woman isn't a Canadian citizen, she's an American living here.  Fine her then deport her and bar her entry forever.

I agree entirely. But I think we both know that is vastly more sensible than this government is capable of. Not to mention a large percentage of it probably agrees with her.

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On 5/4/2024 at 8:06 AM, Zeitgeist said:

She can spew such evil, but that’s what it is.  The bigger issue isn’t whether her right to say such things should be removed.  It shouldn’t.

 

Inciting violence and praising terrorism should definitely be illegal. 

We have to remember that thanks to fools in the elite class, we're no longer a largely homogenous country. We have millions of people here from places where political and religious violence is the norm. We can't have people shouting praise for terrorists here and calling for more.

Edited by I am Groot
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On 5/4/2024 at 12:47 PM, Michael Hardner said:

So... debate them... if you can.  Instead of complaining about them.  

Debate is not what will help. The 'progressives' are in full control of the education system as well as almost the entirety of the media. They own the public forums. They control what is being fed to kids. What is needed is to start electing conservatives who will push back against that, force the education systems back into simply teaching facts, and not their Western hatred and twisted Marxist interpretation of reality. There also needs to be a law brought in similar to the Fairness Doctrine that used to be in the US.

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On 5/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, cannuck said:

First of all, IDENTICAL headscarfs, tent cities and verbatim chants appearing in dozens of places around the continent is not "spontaneous".  Someone is organizing and financing this activity, and they should be fined for restitution and if not legal citizens deported after their finances are tapped.

Iran is helping to fund and organize it. And I'm sure China and Russia are helping it along. And we don't deport people in this country unless they start raping babies (One raped baby not being enough to show they shouldn't be allowed here.)

On 5/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, cannuck said:

Peaceful protesting is certainly something that western countries should and DO support, but disrupting institutions, causing property damage and spewing hate speech is well beyond peaceful.  Those arrested or even identified by police on campus' who don't belong there need to be handed their share of the cleanup,

We can't even get police to break these occupations up, even when universities and premiers ask them to. Our police are wholly uninterested in breaking up illegal demonstrations of any kind. Their policy appears to be that a demonstration can go on as long as it wants unless people are being beaten and buildings trashed fairly regularly, or until the political pressure builds up to the point they have to put down their donuts and go do something.

On 5/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, cannuck said:

 Students participating should be handed their share of the bill and be told they will not be graduated until they  pay up.  Staff is much easier:  their share of the bill just gets deducted from their pension or if not adequate paycheques.

You know none of that will happen, right. None of these people will pay any price. The university administrations don't believe in discipline except for those who say or write something considered offensive to a protected group. And Jews are clearly, not such a group, being perceived by the Left as 'white oppressors'.

On 5/4/2024 at 5:12 PM, cannuck said:

Remember the reaction to Western Truckers who drove into Ottawa to protest FOR Canadians?   We need to have AT LEAST that strong a reaction to those protesting for Iran/Hamas/Hezbollah/Houthis/Al Queida, etc.

But the Liberals, NDP and media succeded in portraying those people as being racist and holding 'deplorable' views, so the media was fine with whatever actions were taken against them. 

But the protesters/demonstrators hold views shared by a lot of the Left and almost none of the Right, so they're all good people.

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On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s a problem our government created through immigration, because a significant portion of our electorate doesn’t see these organizations as terrorists.

Meaning the almost two million Muslims in Canada.

On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Canadians have to quickly decide what kind of country they want before the demographics have shifted to the point where our own government literally seeks to undermine what most Canadians value about Canada.

Too late.

On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

It’s not even about the question of whether there are many good Muslims who are tolerant in Canada. It’s that many are less tolerant than Christians.

Anyone from a region which is absolutely seething with intolerance is going to be less tolerant than someone born and raised here. Add in Islam, which is the least tolerant of the major religions, and you have a group that is devoted to values which are completely divergent from our own. 

On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Who is running our universities?

People who hate the West, hate Western culture and values, and want to destroy the whole thing in favor of some imagined colorful rainbow of people from around the world with different cultures, values and beliefs - who they somehow seem to believe will share their own very left-wing views but don't. The reason the Left sides with Muslims, for example, is because they both hate the West, and the Left has this starry-eyed belief that the Muslims don't really believe that 'silly' religious stuff, or that as soon as they get here and experience our wonderful land of tolerance their intolerance will fade away.

On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

Who are our MP’s?  Do people really know or care?  

With few exceptions they appear to be mostly venal, self-serving nobodies of little substance, vision, or intellect who simply spout whatever words they're given by the party, and vote however they're told to vote. 

On 5/6/2024 at 10:59 AM, Zeitgeist said:

I think it’s highly arguable that our country has shifted so rapidly that it’s unclear who or what our governments represent.  The ant-settler colonial narrative bandied about among many activist Indigenous and pro-Palestinians is heavily supported by our woke PM and the naive liberals running our institutions of learning and almost all large organizations.  

I like to think a Conservative government will push back on this, but doubt it will push very hard. I was just listening to an interview with a British conservative who said that their party was further to the Left than most British people, leaving those people feeling helpless because there's nobody to vote for that will represent their will. I'm not sure that's not the case in Canada, as well. 

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

Debate is not what will help. The 'progressives' are in full control of the education system as well as almost the entirety of the media. They own the public forums. They control what is being fed to kids. What is needed is to start electing conservatives who will push back against that, force the education systems back into simply teaching facts, and not their Western hatred and twisted Marxist interpretation of reality. There also needs to be a law brought in similar to the Fairness Doctrine that used to be in the US.

Sorry, this is another Overton Window/Conspiracy take.  

As soon as you start shrieking about Marxism, I lose all interest in engagement.

And the fairness doctrine was dropped because it was thought of as censorship. To bring it back would and Fox News as we know it.

Edited by Michael Hardner
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19 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry, this is another Overton Window/Conspiracy take.  

As soon as you start shrieking about Marxism, I lose all interest in engagement.

 

Translation -  when i come across an argument that i don't like and can't easily refute, I pretend to be disinterested so i don't have to concede the point.

This is what  i was talking about earlier Mike.  It's dishonest debate tactics instead of discussion.  There is no doubt that the left has gained prominence in our learning institutions and that's not "shreiking" about anything  "Marksist" might be emotionally charged langauge but then so is 'shrieking".

Can't you just have an honest discussion?

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4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Sorry, this is another Overton Window/Conspiracy take.  

As soon as you start shrieking about Marxism, I lose all interest in engagement.

Oh, sure. I get that. It's like, accuse someone of being a Communist and people laugh. Accuse them of being a Fascist or Nazi and there are gasps of horror and immediate cries for investigations. Everyone believes it. But no one seems to think there even is such a thing as a Marxist or a Communist. Why is that? They're not hiding. Especially not in universities. They make no secret of their beliefs and sympathies. It certainly wouldn't harm them in getting hired or their chances of promotion.

It's like nobody realizes how many tens of millions have been murdered by Communist/Marxist governments over the past century or so and they just laugh such people off as posing no danger. They're just quirky, you know!

We get constant, daily cries of 'alt right', far-right', fascist, racist, xenophobes, nazis" from the Left and liberals but if anyone on the right dares to suggest anyone is a Marxist or communist people just sneer and jeer as if this is just an incredible, unbelievable, or unimportant thing. Why is that?

4 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

And the fairness doctrine was dropped because it was thought of as censorship. To bring it back would and Fox News as we know it.

Good. FOX news has damaged American unity more than any other organization in America's history.

 

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10 hours ago, I am Groot said:

 

I like to think a Conservative government will push back on this, but doubt it will push very hard. I was just listening to an interview with a British conservative who said that their party was further to the Left than most British people, leaving those people feeling helpless because there's nobody to vote for that will represent their will. I'm not sure that's not the case in Canada, as well. 

Yup.  The truth is that the entire Canadian Parliament has voted to call residential schools genocide.  Our MP’s have no backbone and talk out of both sides of their mouths to win votes.

This current Canadian story is one of a people who have lost confidence in their country.  Our own federal government, who are supposed to champion the nation state of Canada, won’t defend Canada, figuratively and literally.  They seem more interested in scoring points with unaccountable international central planners than serving Canadians.

Our government’s policies are basically toxic to Canadian culture and prosperity.  They are about “the planet” and bribing newcomers with citizenship to win votes.

Traditional Canadians are mocked and called privileged while supremacists, people who are just trying to get along with others and raise families.

What’s more, I’ve realized that culturally I’m more aligned with moderate Muslims than the LGBTQ state religion being pushed on students.  Most people raised Christian are no longer practicing and have caved into the secular rainbow religion.

That’s Canada today.  Our cities are Asian — either Indian or Chinese.  Most immigrants are atheist or a faith other than Christian.  Canada is merely an economic zone with more rights than most countries, but our economy and freedom aren’t what they used to be.  Our healthcare is weak.  Canada has really declined and needs a serious restoration.  I’m not sure the Conservatives are brave and strong enough, but they have to be better than the current woke-green tyrant tax and spenders.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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19 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

That’s Canada today.  Our cities are Asian — either Indian or Chinese.  Most immigrants are atheist or a faith other than Christian.  Canada is merely an economic zone with more rights than most countries, but our economy and freedom aren’t what they used to be.  Our healthcare is weak.  Canada has really declined and needs a serious restoration.  I’m not sure the Conservatives are brave and strong enough, but they have to be better than the current woke-green tyrant tax and spenders.

That's about how I feel. Even at a time when the majority of Canadians - and certainly the vast majority of voters who are even considering voting Conservative want immigration strongly cut back not a single MP in any party has the balls to represent that view publicly. They're too terrified of being called 'racist' or 'anti-immigrant' since the majority of people in our largest cities are immigrants. And you're only allowed to publicly stand up for Canadian culture and values if you're French. Otherwise, you get dismissed as a bigot refusing to accommodate newcomers.

All those demonstrations are led by Muslims, many of them newcomers, but not a single media outlet dares to talk about that. They're being funded and organized by foreign interests hostile to Canada, like Iran, Russia and China, but there's hardly a mention of that, either except an occasional piece in the NP. Our universities are turning into dens of antisemitism which the universities refuse to address because it would mean taking strict action against the protesting students for their blatantly illegal occupation of university territory. And they won't do it. Nor will the police. who are, in both Ontario and Quebec, doing their best to imitate the Ottawa police during the convoy occupation. It's ridiculous.

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26 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

1. They're too terrified of being called 'racist' or 'anti-immigrant' since the majority of people in our largest cities are immigrants.  

2. Our universities are turning into dens of antisemitism ..

1. That's an old story.  Discussion of immigration cuts is done in the open now, for obvious reasons.  But the other unstated problem is bursting the real estate bubble.  I believe Poilievre is a landlord, so he also knows that.  I don't expect major changes.

2. Is that real?  Or just coffee shop chatter?  Honestly, how does one differentiate between a trend and individual incidents?  I have zero dogs in this fight.

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On 5/2/2024 at 8:40 PM, herbie said:

Vancouver Police just arrested a woman for shouting "long Live Oct 7th" through a loudspeaker at a Pro Palestine rally. Charges as a Hate Crime are being investigated.

So where's the outrage over someone you hate's Free Speech being violated? (sound of crickets)

The sick thing is a number of people can be heard shouting it back. Round them up too please.

All speech has consequences...free or not , here she is applauding the deaths of thousands of jews...was she inciting violence...or some other crime ,if i was a jew i would say yes....Not sure what the cop was thinking....maybe if we had more of the story....if i told your wife hey nice tits, can i squeeze them would there be consequences from you... or calling a group of black men the N word...it's all free speech, but it does have consequences...

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18 hours ago, I am Groot said:

That's about how I feel. Even at a time when the majority of Canadians - and certainly the vast majority of voters who are even considering voting Conservative want immigration strongly cut back not a single MP in any party has the balls to represent that view publicly. They're too terrified of being called 'racist' or 'anti-immigrant' since the majority of people in our largest cities are immigrants. And you're only allowed to publicly stand up for Canadian culture and values if you're French. Otherwise, you get dismissed as a bigot refusing to accommodate newcomers.

All those demonstrations are led by Muslims, many of them newcomers, but not a single media outlet dares to talk about that. They're being funded and organized by foreign interests hostile to Canada, like Iran, Russia and China, but there's hardly a mention of that, either except an occasional piece in the NP. Our universities are turning into dens of antisemitism which the universities refuse to address because it would mean taking strict action against the protesting students for their blatantly illegal occupation of university territory. And they won't do it. Nor will the police. who are, in both Ontario and Quebec, doing their best to imitate the Ottawa police during the convoy occupation. It's ridiculous.

Canada has become an internationally run testing ground for top-down UN/WEF/IMF initiatives and resettlement.

Basically if the unaccountable world bodies want to solve a civil war or economic catastrophe or natural disaster problem in a country, Canada is told how many migrants to take.  The Canadian people have no say and it won’t even be debated in Parliament.  Same goes for WHO pandemic treaty, the Paris Accord, abortions and birth control for Africa, any left wing global initiatives. We’ve simply handed our manufacturing to China and shut down our resource development to “fight climate change” as our emissions rise with mass immigration. Canada simply does as it’s told.  Our Charter of Rights and Freedoms is routinely ignored by our government and courts, unless it’s to support the LGBTQ2S+ or Islamo-terrorist lobby or Chinese theft of Canadian biolab research or manipulation of our elections.

Christianity is gradually being banned in schools, including “Catholic” schools.  Fertility and healthy lifestyles are discouraged with free birth control, legal hard drugs, and assisted suicide instead of healthcare. So basically we’re running our own population into the ground, destroying our economy, and attacking the founding cultures of Canada as “settler colonial” as we bring in millions of people from countries without similar democratic institutions and cultures. Why would any rational Canadian want this?

Edited by Zeitgeist
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