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Massive Disappointment from Me


geoffrey

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Deputy PM isn't like the Vice-Presidency of the U.S. *If* something happened to Harper caucus would probably pick an interim leader (and PM) before the party had a leadership convention.

No reason to be so knee-jerk anti-Harper on this one.

I'm happy the position of Deputy PM was abolished ...

Does Harper think that, should something happen to him, his wife or son will replace him?

Dream on, Stephen!

Harper's son is like 8... :blink:

Exactly tml. Didn't you get that part of the hidden agenda? Thats Harper's child care plan, put all kids in cabinet posts.

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I won't play a double standard here. I criticized's Belinda's defection and I agree that Harper's decision is quite beyond me and looks really bad.

Starting to feel a little naive yet TM:? :D

Better mail me over some of that WinnIpeg weed... :lol:

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Were it not for the Liberal's running around the country spreading fear instead of policy, the Conservatives should and would have received a stronger mandate.

Well, I thought it was Harper's moral upstanding and clean campaign that put the cons in power. Well, you've had a taste today of the REAL Stephen Harper. More hidden agenda to follow.

Newbie,

I think you are being overly pessimistic.

I won't play a double standard here. I criticized's Belinda's defection and I agree that Harper's decision is quite beyond me and looks really bad.

But if you think you are ready to bring the government down over this then you need to just relax.

Relax? Oh, like Monty. Okay, I can do that. What's the matter guys. You can sure dish it out can't ya? You've been harpin (no pun inteneded) against the Libs ever since I joined this cozy con love fest and now reality hits you. Well you had your fun. Day 2 tomorrow. I think I'll just stick around for awhile. As far as bringing the gov't down...it would wreck all the fun. No, I look forward to more of Stephen's clean and moral behaviour to do that. Cheers.

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Were it not for the Liberal's running around the country spreading fear instead of policy, the Conservatives should and would have received a stronger mandate.

Well, I thought it was Harper's moral upstanding and clean campaign that put the cons in power. Well, you've had a taste today of the REAL Stephen Harper. More hidden agenda to follow.

Newbie,

I think you are being overly pessimistic.

I won't play a double standard here. I criticized's Belinda's defection and I agree that Harper's decision is quite beyond me and looks really bad.

But if you think you are ready to bring the government down over this then you need to just relax.

Relax? Oh, like Monty. Okay, I can do that. What's the matter guys. You can sure dish it out can't ya? You've been harpin (no pun inteneded) against the Libs ever since I joined this cozy con love fest and now reality hits you. Well you had your fun. Day 2 tomorrow. I think I'll just stick around for awhile. As far as bringing the gov't down...it would wreck all the fun. No, I look forward to more of Stephen's clean and moral behaviour to do that. Cheers.

Ah newbie,

You make me "cozy con love fest." LOL!!! :lol:

I criticized Harper what else do you want me to do??? :rolleyes:

Harper will lose support of the Reform part of his caucus if he doesn't become accountable to people who elected him and he is not stupid... :)

But on that note, glad to see you'll be sticking around...Cheers and a Labatt Blue right back at you... ;)

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Newbie quote from May 17,2005.
As a newbie here I'm wondering who we might expect to cross the floor tomorrow.

He was elated back then when B.S. crossed the floor.

Look who's not a happy-camper now.

Wouldn't another defection tomorrow just turn you inside out eh, Newbie?

Wooo-whooo! :lol:

I'm a very happy camper Canuck. I'm just waiting for the rest of you all to catch up. Stephen caught me by surprise tho by this early conversion. He'd make a damn good Liberal.

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The Conservatives have traditionally lacked the discipline of the Liberals. That lack of discipline is what has hurt us in the past. Sure you may not agree with everything Harper did with his cabinet, but histrionics about selling out, and red-necked comments about big cities voting the right way only hurts us.

So basically, Conservative MP's and candidates saying what they feel has been the problem? You're right though, muzzling the candidates did seem to work this time around.

The Conservatives have a chance to govern for an extended period here. *Supporters* jumping on the PM the day he takes office isn't the way to stay in power.

Many Conservative supporters backed Harper and his gang because they believed Harper when he advertised that he would clean up Ottawa and make government more accountable. That was the primary reason for their support. Harper, on his first day of school, managed to demonstrate to those people that nothing has changed. Some people, believe it or not, value principle more than power. From this post, it is evident that you're not one of them.

Remember the old saying "moral victories are for chumps".

Henceforth, any post from you that includes the words "ethics" or "principle" will recieve nothing but a " :lol: " from me.

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A very odd point from a man who chose the namesake you did. P.E.T.'s only principle was screwin' the west. ;)

Some people, believe it or not, value principle more than power.

I sense someone majored in historical revisionism and minored in ad hominem attacks.

:rolleyes:

IMT,

That's a but cruel considering Shoop isn't wrong...

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IMT,

That's a but cruel considering Shoop isn't wrong...

You're right.. he isn't wrong. He is completely and inexplicably wrong. But its forgiveable.. I went through the same indoctrination in high school here in Edmonton in my day.

How so? What indoctrination?

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tml12,

Thanks for the support.

See die-hard Liberals can only blame westerners for not liking Trudeau on indoctrination. Typical Liberal - can't even take responsibility for their own actions.

When Keith Davey was the Liberal's national campaign chair in 1980 the parties unofficial slogan was "Screw the West - We'll win the rest."

Which is pretty much happened when the P.E.T. lead Liberals won 2 out of 77 seats west of the Manitoba/Ontario border. Then the true screwing of the west began. The N.E.P. helped exacerbate the problems of the slump in oil prices in the 80s.

Yet it is Alberta high schools teaching farcically, and nothing wrong with what Trudeau did. :rolleyes:

The way that Trudeau in general, and the NEP in particular, was taught in Alberta high schools was a farce. There are threads on this issue if you care to dig them up.
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See die-hard Liberals can only blame westerners for not liking Trudeau on indoctrination. Typical Liberal - can't even take responsibility for their own actions.

When Keith Davey was the Liberal's national campaign chair in 1980 the parties unofficial slogan was "Screw the West - We'll win the rest."

If I'm not mistaken, you were the one that lectured at great length earlier about how power is more important than ethics or principle. Given that, I'm kind of wondering why you don't idolize this imaginary Trudeau that you love to hate so much.

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Because he used the power in ways I don't agree with.

Bloated government bureaucracies, soaring deficits and debt.

He rammed through the flawed and inadequate Constitution Act 1982 just to create a legacy for himself.

He never, ever tried to govern all of Canada. Never even cared to reach out to Canadians west of Ontario...

If I'm not mistaken, you were the one that lectured at great length earlier about how power is more important than ethics or principle. Given that, I'm kind of wondering why you don't idolize this imaginary Trudeau that you love to hate so much.
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Because he used the power in ways I don't agree with.

Bloated government bureaucracies, soaring deficits and debt.

He rammed through the flawed and inadequate Constitution Act 1982 just to create a legacy for himself.

He never, ever tried to govern all of Canada. Never even cared to reach out to Canadians west of Ontario...

If I'm not mistaken, you were the one that lectured at great length earlier about how power is more important than ethics or principle. Given that, I'm kind of wondering why you don't idolize this imaginary Trudeau that you love to hate so much.

I am completely willing to give the benefit of the doubt but Shoop is stating facts here. All of those things are true. They are things the left is not against and should not be on the defensive about.

In those days, Trudeau got 74/75 seats in Quebec and plenty of help from Toronto and Atlantic Canada.

Trudeau did good things and many bad ones too. I happen to agree the Constitution in 1982 is flawed, no one can doubt he created huge debts, and governed for, by, and of the east.

Those are abuses of power I think as well...not indicative of the federalism he said he stood for...

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I am somewhat disappointed as well. This was not what I had hoped for from Harper, and especially not on his first day.

I sense that the Fortier decision is somewhat akin to his making Josee Verner his Quebec lead after the 2004 election, even though she was defeated. That, ultimately, paid off for Harper and may have been a factor in the party's unexpected breakthrough in Quebec. I'm sure he hopes that Fortier will pay similar dividends in Montreal.

Luring a prominent Liberal to cross the floor is also somewhat disappointing... when the shoe was on the other foot, then were rather vocal about the immorality of running under one banner then serving under another.

I think in both situations, Harper decided that the long-term payoff is worth the short-term optics. I think that like getting same-sex marriage out of the way on the first day of the election campaign, Harper believes that doing this now means it will be less damaging than if it happened later down the road, and that having Fortier and Emerson in Montreal and Vancouver will ultimately be worth the price he pays right now. Whether this turns out to be a politically astute move remains to be seen.

But I do find it disappointing and somewhat out of step with his views on senate reform and democratic reform.

-k

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