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'We will definitely be living through a third referendum,' says Parti Quebecois leader


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https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/we-will-definitely-be-living-through-a-third-referendum-says-parti-quebecois-leader-1.6846503

"We will definitely be living through a third referendum" on sovereignty before the end of this decade, declared Parti Quebecois (PQ) leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon on Sunday.

The PQ leader is convinced that he'll be able to form the next government in 2026.

And this referendum could very well be the one of the last chances, he suggested, because an "existential threat" from the federal government hangs over "our people."

"In recent weeks, Ottawa has announced its intention to shamelessly encroach on Quebec's areas of jurisdiction, in housing, health, drug insurance and dental care," said the PQ leader.

"It changes that we are falling into a system that is no longer a federation, but an increasingly unitary state, in which our political weight will be less than one-fifth of the vote, in a unitary state with a history of discrimination against francophones. What will become of us as Quebecers if we don't even have a fifth of the votes in a government that decides for us? We're finished! Canada has a bleak future in store for us," he said in his speech to party members at a two-day national council that focused on housing.

"It's a regime that only wants to crush those who refuse to assimilate."

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And this is what happens when federal gov'ts step too strongly on the toes of the provinces.

When harper was in, he let the provinces run themselves as they saw fit. The bloc and the parti were all but destroyed and western seperation fell to near zero.

Trudeau has managed to reverse ALL of that and we're back to provinces openly talking about seperation

Obviously this is also a bargaining position - Quebec wants to keep 20 percent of the vote even tho it's got less than 20 percent of the population and falling. So they'll pull the "Well ,,,,  MAYBE we'll stay if you give us more seats than our population deserves...."  I don't think that's going to fly but the very fact its' in our face again shows how badly trudeau has taken a great country and screwed it back up after others fixed it.

It would seem that in Canada, we don't get along.

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Why should these separatists think they should have more than their share of the seats in a federal system.  It is just an excuse to demand more or separate.

  Seems to me they have more powers than the other nine provinces in many areas plus they have received a lot of money in equalization payments over the years.  Yet some are still griping.  I don't think the separatists speak for the majority in Quebec.  But we will see what happens.  I think they are far better off in Canada than they would be on their own.

Edited by blackbird
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2 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I support Quebec's separation and always have. Achieving their aspiration will increase the opportunities for Vancouver Island's liberation.

Are you serious?  Nobody on Vancouver Island wants to separate except a few kooks.

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33 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Are you serious?  Nobody on Vancouver Island wants to separate except a few kooks.

You must mean the new kooks in the so-called Vancouver Island Soviet Socialist Republic. 

I'm taking about kooks from the 70's.

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47 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Why should these separatists think they should have more than their share of the seats in a federal system.

Because they believe they have enough power to force it.

They think that gov'ts will pander to them and give them what they want because they have always done so. Back when between them and ontairo they had 65 percent of the seats or more that was largely true.

Now that the west has been growing - it's becoming less true. Especially as they deny more immigrants which means they're growing much more slowly.

Honestly i dont think it's going to work this time .

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Let Quebec leave. Canada will be abetter country without those economic leeches.

 

Besides, the Americans hate Quebec,  and would rule in Canada's favor over any territorial dispute. Most of Quebec would be annexed by Canada  including most of Montreal, Gatineau, and parts of areas near the border.

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1 hour ago, Nefarious Banana said:

They bring nothing to the picnic, hog down everyone else's goodies, then b!tch and whine that they didn't get their 'share' . . . .

3 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

Let Quebec leave. Canada will be abetter country without those economic leeches.

https://media.giphy.com/media/Zpmu1zdU8kA8n92LBT/giphy.gif?cid=82a1493b2dannvafsze9gespulnwebe9zp8nqm58ougw0orn&ep=v1_gifs_trending&rid=giphy.gif&ct=ggiphy.gif

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11 hours ago, CdnFox said:

 

"We will definitely be living through a third referendum" on sovereignty before the end of this decade, declared Parti Quebecois (PQ) leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon on Sunday.

 

I wish.

=====

Yet many voters in Ontario fear "separation". Quebec leaving Canada

In IMHO, we need a new arrangement.

 

Edited by August1991
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22 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And this is what happens when federal gov'ts step too strongly on the toes of the provinces.

When harper was in, he let the provinces run themselves as they saw fit. The bloc and the parti were all but destroyed and western seperation fell to near zero.

Trudeau has managed to reverse ALL of that and we're back to provinces openly talking about seperation

Obviously this is also a bargaining position - Quebec wants to keep 20 percent of the vote even tho it's got less than 20 percent of the population and falling. So they'll pull the "Well ,,,,  MAYBE we'll stay if you give us more seats than our population deserves...."  I don't think that's going to fly but the very fact its' in our face again shows how badly trudeau has taken a great country and screwed it back up after others fixed it.

It would seem that in Canada, we don't get along.

It’s always about money and freedom of opportunity. Canada is losing its once very strong brand because our Liberal-NDP federal government can’t help but overreach into every area of people’s lives and every political jurisdiction.  The question Canadians are rightly asking is, What’s the upside?  Our military and federal bureaucracies such as Passports and Immigration are dysfunctional. Taxes are rising, wages are stagnant, cost of living is rising, and freedom of speech is weakening.  The promises of the budget balancing itself and $10 a day daycare for all are falling flat as government and debt balloon out of all proportion, even as the feds continue to borrow money to make more announcements for programs we can’t afford.

No one is fooled.  In this climate, of course provinces will talk independence. The Canadian model isn’t looking great right now.  The 5 year federal term limit is simply too long in Canada.  Everyone knows that the NDP will prop up this government no matter how bad it is in order to hold onto seats.  Everyone knows the debt hole is growing fast and Canada is a slow moving inefficient machine right now. Other than safety from gun violence and better public K-12 education (perhaps no longer given the mandated woke anti-Canada and pro-LGBTQ indoctrination), why would anyone choose Canada over the US?

We’ve lost so much in eight years.

 

Edited by Zeitgeist
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11 hours ago, August1991 said:

I wish.

=====

Yet many voters in Ontario fear "separation". Quebec leaving Canada

In IMHO, we need a new arrangement.

 

Yea.  Get out.  Beat it. We don't like you we don't want you.

-the west.

There's your new arrangement :)  We cancel your citizenships, you are treated like any other country and need passports to enter etc.  I woudln't want to guarantee there won't be tarrifs ether. And we can finally cancel french as a second language in the rest of the country but you'll still have to provide english to sell your goods and services here,

Oh - and that trade deal the province of quebec has for newfoundland's power? Yeah - that's done.

Fack off. The vote can't happen fast enough - get lost.  Be thankful they never let US vote on a referendum about whether you should stay or not.

And with you gone the balance of power politically shifts largely to the west. I'm fine with that.

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So much of our trade is north-south given all the stupid interprovincial red tape.  If Canada broke up, Ontario and Alberta would thrive as self sufficient powerhouses.  B.C. would consolidate its position as a retirement villa for rich Chinese but produce basically nothing.  Even resource development would end there under the communist green government. The Maritimes and Newfoundland would become either appendages of the US or some kind of shrunken federation run by Ontario.  Quebec would become a shrinking francophone backwater.  The far north would struggle and either be part of the shrunken federation run by Ontario or join Alaska.  Independent, it would decline without all the federal funding, much like the East Coast would. They could only survive independently by amping up immigration and eradicating their culture and way of life, though the Canadian federal government is doing that for all of Canada now.

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So much of our trade is north-south given all the stupid interprovincial red tape.  If Canada broke up, Ontario and Alberta would thrive as self sufficient powerhouses.  B.C. would consolidate its position as a retirement villa for rich Chinese but produce basically nothing.  Even resource development would end there under the communist government. The Maritimes and Newfoundland would become either appendages of the US or some kind of shrunken federation run by Ontario.  Quebec would become a shrinking francophone backwater.  The far north would struggle and either be part of the shrunken federation run by Ontario or join Alaska.  Independent, it would decline without all the federal funding, much like the East Coast.  

Well... no.

Ontario would do as well as it does now, as you note it's trade is north and south mostly addressing automotive and other manufacturing. Some argue that's in trouble already but that won't change positively or negatively.

And The praries would do fine. THey grow the food and people all around the world will still need food. And potash and oil will still sell just fine. Their trade really isn't north to south.  Alberta's oil is but it's also east to west through bc.  But it ISN"T west to east - so quebec's leaving woudln't affect it.

BC will thrive - it will still be the only port to the asian markets, it will still be a tech and movie mecca, it will still have tonnes of resources like trees and natural gas available. and it would now be the second largest province. I have no doubt that it's elderly care industries would do very well as you say but that tends to be 'generational' - it would tend to come and go.

And i think you'd see the western provinces starting to work together more and more.  And suddenly ontario's focus would switch westward -  without the seats in quebec up for grabs any more the western provinces would have almost as many seats as ontario - 108 to 122.

That means more federal contracts in the west, more leaders from the west, etc etc.

As far as the maritimes goes  - they might just get control of their hydro back. That would be big for them.

And with quebec gone - equalization gets 'interesting' :) 

The west in general would benefit HUGELY from quebec leaving - ontario not so much but it woudln't be too bad.

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5 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Well... no.

Ontario would do as well as it does now, as you note it's trade is north and south mostly addressing automotive and other manufacturing. Some argue that's in trouble already but that won't change positively or negatively.

And The praries would do fine. THey grow the food and people all around the world will still need food. And potash and oil will still sell just fine. Their trade really isn't north to south.  Alberta's oil is but it's also east to west through bc.  But it ISN"T west to east - so quebec's leaving woudln't affect it.

BC will thrive - it will still be the only port to the asian markets, it will still be a tech and movie mecca, it will still have tonnes of resources like trees and natural gas available. and it would now be the second largest province. I have no doubt that it's elderly care industries would do very well as you say but that tends to be 'generational' - it would tend to come and go.

And i think you'd see the western provinces starting to work together more and more.  And suddenly ontario's focus would switch westward -  without the seats in quebec up for grabs any more the western provinces would have almost as many seats as ontario - 108 to 122.

That means more federal contracts in the west, more leaders from the west, etc etc.

As far as the maritimes goes  - they might just get control of their hydro back. That would be big for them.

And with quebec gone - equalization gets 'interesting' :) 

The west in general would benefit HUGELY from quebec leaving - ontario not so much but it woudln't be too bad.

I’m not as bullish on BC because of its socialist policies, but if they could integrate with Alberta, then yes, big possibility there.  I pretty much lump Saskatchewan in with Alberta as they have very similar outlooks and would probably maintain close ties and thrive.  Manitoba is that transitional province from Ontario to the West and it would probably remain closely tied to both.  Canada could probably thrive as a whole country without Quebec as long as we keep control of the St. Lawrence Seaway, or at least retain unlimited access.  I just don’t know if at that point some provinces would be better off going it alone.

My province of Ontario would be a powerhouse without having to take care of the welfare programs of the east and north, but I always thought that the idea of Canada had value, that our national identity is more than the sum of its parts.  I want to believe that, but it’s hard to buy into that when our own government calls Canada genocidal and settler colonial or a culture-less post-national state that serves unaccountable international interests that care more about their goals for how we should all live than the interests of Canadians.

If Canada is to persist as a nation-state rather than provinces or territories or as parts of the US or UK, its federal government has to assert Canadian culture and serve Canadians better than these other options.

How do most Canadians define Canada in ways that matter to them?  Does our own federal government serve those values?

Edited by Zeitgeist
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2 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

I’m not as bullish on BC because of its socialist policies, but if they could integrate with Alberta, then yes, big possibility there.  

I mean -you're not wrong but that's kind of true whether the country splits or not.  :) 

Quote

I pretty much lump Saskatchewan in with Alberta as they have very similar outlooks and would probably maintain close ties and thrive.  Manitoba is that transitional province from Ontario to the West and it would probably remain closely tied to both.

Sure. 

Quote

Canada could probably thrive as a whole country without Quebec as long as we keep control of the St. Lawrence Seaway, or at least retain unlimited access.  I just don’t know if at that point some provinces would be better off going it alone.  My province of Ontario would be a powerhouse without having to take care of the welfare programs of the east and north, but I always thought that the idea of Canada had value, that our national identity is more than the sum of its parts

It would probably function much better

One of the big problems right now - and an easterner may not understand the depths of it, is that ontario (and quebec) deliberately repress industries and opportunities and investment in the west. Remember when trudeau put a tax on all drywall imported to the western provinces but no such tax on the east? I do .  I can name a LOT of examples.

With quebec gone ottawa would be forced to be more fair. They coudn't win elections wihtout support in the west. With the way the west is growing that would probably be more true over the years. 

So suddenly it will make more sense for them to have more power to the provinces - unless the want the leaders we select dictating their gun laws and such :)

And i think that in the long run it would actually lead  to  closer ties.  During harper's time when he let the provinces have their own powers the provinces actually grew closer together.

Quote

.  I want to believe that, but it’s hard to buy into that when our own government calls Canada genocidal and settler colonial or a culture-less post-national state that serves unaccountable international interests that care more about their goals for how we should all live than the interests of Canadians.  

Well hopefully that's more of a 'flash in the pan' thing and over time we could get back to sane thinking.  Like i said - with quebec gone and the west having more sway that's a real possibility.

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I've become kind of ambivalent about Quebec. How can a country go on having endless referendums? Quebec has had a pretty good deal going, they get far more in federal spending than they send to Ottawa in taxes (as do several other provinces) and they basically ignore Ottawa whenever they feel like it. Daniel Smith gets crucified for pushing back the same way Quebec has been for years and getting away with it. 

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Just now, Aristides said:

I've become kind of ambivalent about Quebec. How can a country go on having endless referendums?

They believe we'll step in and give them whatever they want to prevent their leaving.

Call their bluff and this goes away one way or another

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8 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

No one is fooled.  In this climate, of course provinces will talk independence. The Canadian model isn’t looking great right now.  

Thank you for acknowledging that.

At least, recognizing the issue would draw a narrower path to a solution.

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5 minutes ago, QuebecOverCanada said:

Thank you for acknowledging that.

At least, recognizing the issue would draw a narrower path to a solution.

The solution is as it always has been - more powers to the provinces and less with the feds. Focus the feds on core issues and that's it,  if quebec wants anti gun laws and alberta doesn't problem solved,

But quebec can't keep threatening to separate every five minutes and it can't keep asking for sweeter deals just for itself.  If that's what it wants hit the road. 

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