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Ukraine Can't Win the War


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4 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Indeed. And only now does the li'l Tweenkie realize the futility of his death-mongering.

Indeed what?  You admit you've been rootin' for Pootin' the whole time?  

The only person who's done any death mongering here is the smooth-brain who said he's hoping to see Ukraine utterly destroyed.  🤡

 

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9 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Indeed what?  You admit you've been rootin' for Pootin' the whole time?  

The only person who's done any death mongering here is the smooth-brain who said he's hoping to see Ukraine utterly destroyed.  🤡

 

Yes dear...lol.

Gawd you're such an insufferable goof.

You were and remain...wrong. trying to deflect from your own poor judgment and frankly...stoopid analysis of the situation from the very first stoopid post you made about this war.

You are a typical semi-conscious bobblehead who's reality is planted in his empty skull by not possessing the capacity to question the stoopid proclamations made by known liars.

Today Ukraine is losing multiple villages daily. They have no military grunts left. Exactly as I and countless others realized...while you made stoopid statements. 

Now...as Ukraine is facing making a deal or losing everything...your response is not to finally see reality...but to double down on stoopid. 

Meh...limited intellectual capacity is only one of your shortcomings...

I'm quite sure.

Have a warm and fuzzy day...loser.

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14 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You are a typical semi-conscious bobblehead who's reality is planted in his empty skull by not possessing the capacity to question the stoopid proclamations made by known liars.

I always get a good laugh of seeing you parse through reality with that smooth-brain of yours.  You're complaining about people listening to liars while parroting direct-from-the-Kremlin propaganda and MAGA donkey-logic. 

Election was stolen!  Election was stolen!  Bioweapon labs!  Joe Biden's laptop! 🤡🤣🤡

 

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3 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

I always get a good laugh of seeing you parse through reality with that smooth-brain of yours.  You're complaining about people listening to liars while parroting direct-from-the-Kremlin propaganda and MAGA donkey-logic. 

Election was stolen!  Election was stolen!  Bioweapon labs!  Joe Biden's laptop! 🤡🤣🤡

 

Lol...

Loser.

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On 2/25/2024 at 6:49 PM, Perspektiv said:

I don't see how negotiating an end to this conflict is abandoning Ukraine, considering their allies would be on the hook to further defend them from further aggression as well as assisting with them rebuilding their country.

There is no way out of this conflict. Period.

There is no way Ukraine wins. This is essentially the west trying to deplete Russia as much as possible, by keeping them entangled in this war as long as they possibly can. There is no possibility of any advancement, any regaining of land.

Russia has heavily booby trapped the land they have acquired, making it suicide for Ukraine to do anything about it, without heavy handed air support.

Zelensky is aware of this, even conceding to this. The west will eventually tire from pouring billions into this conflict, with zero gains being made.

Ultimately, what should have happened from the onset, will be how this comes to an end.

Any leader who talks Ukraine, without an end game, isn't in support of Ukraine. They're in support of trying to fight Russia via Ukraine and inflict as much loss to them as they possibly can, while aware this is a futility drill.

Ukraine independence was supposed to be guaranteed by the Budapest Memorandum signed by Ukraine, Russia, the US and UK. It's obvious that the only guarantees that stand up are those backed by force.

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20 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Today Ukraine is losing multiple villages daily. They have no military grunts left. Exactly as I and countless others realized...while you made stoopid statements. 

You would be cheering on Hitler in the Battle of the Bulge. 

See! See! Look, Hitler is winning the war. He has pushed our forces back. Time to just quit, it's over!

Yes, Russian forces have opened up some new attacks in the Northeast and have Ukrainian defenses stretched thin... so? 

The nature of war like this will have ebbs and flows for offenses, counter offenses, gains and losses. This war has been going on for years now. 

It is almost like you are... Wait for it, cheering on Russia, especially after some of your past comments were exposed. 

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1 hour ago, User said:

You would be cheering on Hitler in the Battle of the Bulge. 

See! See! Look, Hitler is winning the war. He has pushed our forces back. Time to just quit, it's over!

Yes, Russian forces have opened up some new attacks in the Northeast and have Ukrainian defenses stretched thin... so? 

The nature of war like this will have ebbs and flows for offenses, counter offenses, gains and losses. This war has been going on for years now. 

It is almost like you are... Wait for it, cheering on Russia, especially after some of your past comments were exposed. 

Well that's a very thin argument. 

If you look back you will see that I don't care who "wins" as I don't care for either Russia or Ukraine. What I do care about is common sense and lives. But realistically Ukraine has never stood a chance of "winning" this war without NATO troops. It's always been a simple case of attrition. Which is exactly what we are seeing now.

I'm sorry if it rubs you the wrong way to see someone acknowledge basic reality, but it is and always has been...what it is.

NATO should have stayed the hell out of this. It's cost way too much at this time with nations trying to deal with recovering from the Rona spending spree they went on.

And a peace deal was being negotiated until Boris Johnson showed up. Why? For money to the military-industrial complex?

This whole charade has been a fool's errand. In a few days, Zelinsky is supposed to be done his extended term and elections are supposed to happen. There will be no election though...

In the great democracy of Ukraine. 

Edited by Nationalist
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25 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well that's a very thin argument. 

If you look back you will see that I don't care who "wins" as I don't care for either Russia or Ukraine. What I do care about is common sense and lives. But realistically Ukraine has never stood a chance of "winning" this war without NATO troops. It's always been a simple case of attrition. Which is exactly what we are seeing now.

I'm sorry if it rubs you the wrong way to see someone acknowledge basic reality, but it is and always has been...what it is.

NATO should have stayed the hell out of this. It's cost way too much at this time with nations trying to deal with recovering from the Rona spending spree they went on.

And a peace deal was being negotiated until Boris Johnson showed up. Why? For money to the military-industrial complex?

This whole charade has been a fool's errand. In a few days, Zelinsky is supposed to be done his extended term and elections are supposed to happen. There will be no election though...

In the great democracy of Ukraine. 

If I look back?

If I look back I see our previous discussion where the truth of your position finally came out. You blame Ukraine, you cheer on Russia, you spread propaganda to support them. 

Even now, you are still pushing your bogus Boris Johnson line. 

The only charade here is yours, where you support allowing Russia to win while pretending like you don't care who wins. 

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38 minutes ago, User said:

If I look back?

If I look back I see our previous discussion where the truth of your position finally came out. You blame Ukraine, you cheer on Russia, you spread propaganda to support them. 

Even now, you are still pushing your bogus Boris Johnson line. 

The only charade here is yours, where you support allowing Russia to win while pretending like you don't care who wins. 

You may believe what you like. I have always known the idea that Ukraine can win a war against Russia is just wishful thinking. It's like watching a cat attack a mouse and declaring the mouse will win the fight...because you hate cats.

It's one thing to want a certain outcome, and quite another for that outcome to be achieved. 

Yet in the example above, I would declare the cat will win...and likely eat the belly right out of the mouse....and your reply is...

"You love cats!"

Oh and...I've read a lot of your posts and opinions. Mostly I see a rational thinker. But you don't think Boris's impromptu visit to Zelinsky...right after a peace deal was being negotiated...had something to do with Zelinsky's about face?

Comeon...

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3 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

You may believe what you like. I have always known the idea that Ukraine can win a war against Russia is just wishful thinking. It's like watching a cat attack a mouse and declaring the mouse will win the fight...because you hate cats.

It's one thing to want a certain outcome, and quite another for that outcome to be achieved. 

Yet in the example above, I would declare the cat will win...and likely eat the belly right out of the mouse....and your reply is...

"You love cats!"

No, its more like you are on here talking about how great cats are, you love how they meow, that the mouse was the one taunting the cat and should have known better, how the cat is so strong, you even push bogus arguments about how the cat never really wanted to eat the mouse and then makeup stories about how if only the landlord had not come down the day before and prevented the cat from being friends with the mouse... and then when someone sees the cat going after that mouse decides they will intervene to help, you yell at them to stop and come up with all these phony arguments about how its not worth their time or money to help the mouse... 

And then I point out that you have an ulterior motive here and do love cats. 

 

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3 minutes ago, User said:

No, its more like you are on here talking about how great cats are, you love how they meow, that the mouse was the one taunting the cat and should have known better, how the cat is so strong, you even push bogus arguments about how the cat never really wanted to eat the mouse and then makeup stories about how if only the landlord had not come down the day before and prevented the cat from being friends with the mouse... and then when someone sees the cat going after that mouse decides they will intervene to help, you yell at them to stop and come up with all these phony arguments about how its not worth their time or money to help the mouse... 

And then I point out that you have an ulterior motive here and do love cats. 

 

Now you're being warped.

Let me ask you, why does it bother you that inevitably Russia wins?

Do you fear a massive Russian invasion into Europe?

Do you think anyone is "standing up for Democracy"?

Do you simply detest Russia?

Do you love Ukraine?

 

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6 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Now you're being warped.

Let me ask you, why does it bother you that inevitably Russia wins?

Do you fear a massive Russian invasion into Europe?

Do you think anyone is "standing up for Democracy"?

Do you simply detest Russia?

Do you love Ukraine?

No, I am just using your silly analogy to make it more accurate to what you are doing here. 

It bothers me that any country engages in a war of aggression to conquer another like Russia is doing. Russia is also a geopolitical foe, and it is in our strategic interest to oppose their aggression. We also have longstanding commitments to Ukraine I think we should honor. In general, as Super Power America is, I support doing what is reasonable to help promote freedom and stability around the globe from a moral and strategic standpoint. 

No, I do not fear a massive Russian Invasion at this time. I do fear Russia will continue onto other weaker nations and continue pushing where they can get away with it. 

I don't know what you are getting at with your question on Democracy. 

I recognize Russia for what they are, and how they work against us in the world and how they are a geopolitical foe to a great degree. 

No, I do not love Ukraine, but I value their role as being an independent country free from being conquered by Russia. 

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1 hour ago, User said:

No, I am just using your silly analogy to make it more accurate to what you are doing here. 

It bothers me that any country engages in a war of aggression to conquer another like Russia is doing. Russia is also a geopolitical foe, and it is in our strategic interest to oppose their aggression. We also have longstanding commitments to Ukraine I think we should honor. In general, as Super Power America is, I support doing what is reasonable to help promote freedom and stability around the globe from a moral and strategic standpoint. 

No, I do not fear a massive Russian Invasion at this time. I do fear Russia will continue onto other weaker nations and continue pushing where they can get away with it. 

I don't know what you are getting at with your question on Democracy. 

I recognize Russia for what they are, and how they work against us in the world and how they are a geopolitical foe to a great degree. 

No, I do not love Ukraine, but I value their role as being an independent country free from being conquered by Russia. 

Well ur wrong about my motivation. 

When the outcome of a war is pretty much assured, what do the ones losing generally do?

The killing needs to end. It serves no practical purpose to fight on. If the Ukraine really wants to...let 'em fight to the end. But I seriously doubt they want to...

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10 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Well ur wrong about my motivation. 

When the outcome of a war is pretty much assured, what do the ones losing generally do?

The killing needs to end. It serves no practical purpose to fight on. If the Ukraine really wants to...let 'em fight to the end. But I seriously doubt they want to...

The outcome is not pretty much assured at all. Here we are over 2 years later. Russia has suffered more losses, more losses to equipment, and are barely making any gains at all for the cost in manpower and equipment. 

So, what is your motivation? Why do you continue to push inaccurate assertions and things that might as well be Russian propaganda?

The killing can end if Russia quits fighting and withdraws. Why do you not spend your time focused on demanding that? Condemning them? On wanting more support for Ukraine to force Russia's hand? 

Ukraine is fighting now. 

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7 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Well that's a very thin argument. 

If you look back you will see that I don't care who "wins" as I don't care for either Russia or Ukraine. What I do care about is common sense and lives. But realistically Ukraine has never stood a chance of "winning" this war without NATO troops. It's always been a simple case of attrition. Which is exactly what we are seeing now.

I'm sorry if it rubs you the wrong way to see someone acknowledge basic reality, but it is and always has been...what it is.

NATO should have stayed the hell out of this. It's cost way too much at this time with nations trying to deal with recovering from the Rona spending spree they went on.

And a peace deal was being negotiated until Boris Johnson showed up. Why? For money to the military-industrial complex?

This whole charade has been a fool's errand. In a few days, Zelinsky is supposed to be done his extended term and elections are supposed to happen. There will be no election though...

In the great democracy of Ukraine. 

We tried appeasement in the 1930s.

It didn't end well. Especially for Britain.

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32 minutes ago, Iceni warrior said:

We tried appeasement in the 1930s.

It didn't end well. Especially for Britain.

technically,  it did end well for Britain

when the failed British policy ended up dragging the Glorious Union into the fight

once again into the breach, to free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying

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26 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

technically,  it did end well for Britain

when the failed British policy ended up dragging the Glorious Union into the fight

once again into the breach, to free all the slaves everywhere, or die trying

The war that resulted from appeasement bankrupted Britain and finished off the Empire.

The US and the Soviets were the only ones to come out on top.

 

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6 hours ago, User said:

The outcome is not pretty much assured at all. Here we are over 2 years later. Russia has suffered more losses, more losses to equipment, and are barely making any gains at all for the cost in manpower and equipment. 

So, what is your motivation? Why do you continue to push inaccurate assertions and things that might as well be Russian propaganda?

The killing can end if Russia quits fighting and withdraws. Why do you not spend your time focused on demanding that? Condemning them? On wanting more support for Ukraine to force Russia's hand? 

Ukraine is fighting now. 

Dude...You do realize Russia is not likely to leave...right? Like...I can "demand" that all I like...you can too...but it would be a complete waste of time. You understand that right?

Watch this:

 

Do you think Greenwald and Sachs are "Putin Puppets"? 

Wakey wakey man. You can wave the Stars and Stripes all you like but reality does not care. Reality is what it is and that's it. It doesn't care that User doesn't like it.

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

You made stoopid predictions...you were wrong.

What predictions were those, precisely?  That Ukraine had no hope in fending off Russia, and that they'd have to accept their status as a neutral buffer state?  That Putin was going to end the war by May 9th, 2022, with "Mission Accomplished?" That the Ukrainians and Europe was going to freeze in winter 2022/2023?  

Oh wait...those were your predictions.  🙄

The one thing I'll admit I underestimated was the servility and stupidity of the average Russian peasant - willing to die like rats in the mud in their tens of thousands for absolutely nothing.  

Edited by Moonbox
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34 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

What predictions were those, precisely?  That Ukraine had no hope in fending off Russia, and that they'd have to accept their status as a neutral buffer state?  That Putin was going to end the war by May 9th, 2022, with "Mission Accomplished?" That the Ukrainians and Europe was going to freeze in winter 2022/2023?  

Oh wait...those were your predictions.  🙄

The one thing I'll admit I underestimated was the servility and stupidity of the average Russian peasant - willing to die like rats in the mud in their tens of thousands for absolutely nothing.  

In this thread my initial post reads...

Quote

Meh...a treaty was inevitable. Only those who want a proxy war thought otherwise. 

They were wrong.

A treaty is still inevitable...even more so today.

In another related thread my initial post reads...

Quote

Didn't those eastern provinces just hold yet another referendum and DEMOC4ATICLY vote to leave Ukraine? Yes they did...for the second time.

Where all all the great defenders of DEMOCRACY now?

Ignoring their claims about DEMOCRACY...more Libbie hypocrisy. 

Excusing the type-o made back then...is this true? Yup.

About this time began silly accusations, made out of frustration I must surmise, that I'm some sort of "Putin Lover".

LOL...the accusations of dim-wits who have lost the argument.

Fact: Whether Russia was justified in this invasion or not, the outcome has always been predetermined. Ukraine could never win a war of attrition with Russia.

Fact: A peace treaty was being negotiated in early 2022 and a visit from Johnson put an end to that.

Fact: NATO was not and remains not willing to send national military troops to Ukraine.

Fact: Ukraine is now out of military personnel and is ceding territory quickly.

Fact: The Ukrainian government is falling apart and Zelinsky's leadership is being openly challenged.

Conclusion: Whether by design or by accident...NATO has hung Ukraine out to dry. Or die as the case may be.

Fun Result: I get to gloat about having been correct in my predictions made based on cold reality...and you get to eat crow.

I think if you put lots of salt and ketchup on your crow, you might even be able to enjoy it.

Edited by Nationalist
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So many of the "facts" you list...that just aren't facts. 🤣

I can certainly grant you that the war will end with some sort of peace treaty, and that NATO troops aren't going in, but you're stating the obvious.  

Everything else you've said is just your regular rootin' for Putin, rife with your regular contradictions and cluelessness.  

If you think Ukraine is rapidly ceding territory, you might want to compare a map of the frontlines in late 2022 to one today.

  image.png.817fa69a3ceb773dd2f4b70b0a0854e6.png

 

 

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13 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Dude...You do realize Russia is not likely to leave...right? Like...I can "demand" that all I like...you can too...but it would be a complete waste of time. You understand that right?

Dude, you are back to not answering my questions or responding to all of what I post again. 

You have as much influence on world events with Russia here as you do with Ukraine or US policy. And to that point, you can support US/Ukraine policy that puts more pressure on Russia to stop the war if that is what you are really after here. That is my point in saying this, that you are ignoring Russia and the policy you do support plays into what Russia wants... why, it is almost as if you support Russia here and you do cheer for them to win. 

So again, what are your motives? Why do you continue to push inaccurate assertions and things that might as well be Russian propaganda?

I watched the video... was there any particular point you wanted to discuss beyond the fact these guys are saying the same thing you are? 

13 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Do you think Greenwald and Sachs are "Putin Puppets"? 

Wakey wakey man. You can wave the Stars and Stripes all you like but reality does not care. Reality is what it is and that's it. It doesn't care that User doesn't like it.

I did not call you a puppet or anyone a puppet. 

What reality is it you think I am ignoring here?

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Fact: Whether Russia was justified in this invasion or not, the outcome has always been predetermined. Ukraine could never win a war of attrition with Russia.

This can't be a fact... it has never happened yet. Its a prediction based on information you choose to focus on. 

The "fact" (pun intended) that you call it a fact only shows your own bias here. 

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Fact: A peace treaty was being negotiated in early 2022 and a visit from Johnson put an end to that.

This is not a fact, its speculation on your part at best, not backed up by what we know happened. This is your buying into some phony pro-Russia narrative that they wanted peace and if only Johnson hadn't blown up the deal. The problem is that this isn't what happened at all. 

3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Fact: Ukraine is now out of military personnel and is ceding territory quickly.

If Ukraine was out of military personnel, Russia would have already conquered them. What you likely meant to say is that they are out of reserves or maybe out of recruits... who knows, but those are for more accurate. Either way, you are wrong. Ukraine is actively working to replenish their ranks and has been doing so for months now, but they are certainly behind the curve to some degree. It is not perfect, they are struggling, but it certainly is not "out of military personnel" as you claim. 

Your so-called "facts" are anything but... 

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