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Ukraine Can't Win the War


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9 hours ago, User said:

@Army Guy do you see this shit he is pushing here? 

FFS man. 

Here he is, pushing this absurd notion that Russia didn't start this. He has made this argument before, pushing the Russian propaganda that they were not in the Donbas in a shadow war there starting this mess, as if Russia was there to save the poor people from the Ukrainians. 

Seriously man. 

Check the news from 2014. You'll see that the hostilities started then. You'll also learn about the Azovs.

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Gee...does Zelinsky and NATO pay you?

Because your comment here is both pathetic and ridiculous. 

Why on Earth do you constantly regurgitate this BS about NATO and Zelinskyy being horrible, and Russia being awesome. Finally, why is it that anyone with names supposedly patriotic or nationalistic, are among the worst traitors online? 

Do you not know that Canada relies on NATO, and is an original member? Do you not know that Russia does not have the best interests of the West in mind, and is our historical enemy? What do you get out of selling out your country?

You and that Quisling Army dude deserve each other. You two can go to Russia, if you love it so much.

Edited by DUI_Offender
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4 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Check the news from 2014. You'll see that the hostilities started then. You'll also learn about the Azovs.

I don't need to check anything. This was never a debate. I clearly said things were just fine in January of 2014 BEFORE Russia started their shadow war there. 

The point being they had peace BEFORE Russia started this crap. 

Russia sent commando units there. 

This is all the BS you lie about to push Russian propaganda. 

You are not interested in peace at all, you are interested in a Russian victory. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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6 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Why on Earth do you constantly regurgitate this BS about NATO and Zelinskyy being horrible, and Russia being awesome. Finally, why is it that anyone with names supposedly patriotic or nationalistic, are among the worst traitors online? 

Do you not know that Canada relies on NATO, and is an original member? Do you not know that Russia does not have the best interests of the West in mind, and is our historical enemy? What do you get out of selling out your country?

You and that Quisling Army dude deserve each other. You two can go to Russia, if you love it so much.

I never said Russia is awesome. By the same token though, Russia is not my enemy. It's not yours either. You're just trained to react negatively to Russia. But have they ever threatened you? No.

Conversely, up until Russia annexed Crimea, you and most people didn't care one iota for Ukraine. And why should you have? It was a backwards, rather newly formed country that couldn't even fit the bill to join NATO. But...you've been told that an "enemy" that has never threatened you, your nation, NATO, or Europe, is attacking a country you now need to be very concerned about. Have you ever even met real Russians or Ukrainians? Do you have any idea what their nations and cultures are like...at all? Yet you have the hubris to insist that you know what's best. That "DEMOCRACY" must prevail, in a country that right now is under martial law and is about as undemocratic as it gets. Stupid you.

It was common knowledge, for decades, that a war between the USA and Russia can NEVER be allowed to happen. Now you indoctrinated little "patriots" wanna risk humanity itself, for a country that is of no consequence to you, for your hatred of another country that has never threatened you.

Man...the stupid of this situation is fcking monumental.

Edited by Nationalist

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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3 hours ago, User said:

I don't need to check anything. This was never a debate. I clearly said things were just fine in January of 2014 BEFORE Russia started their shadow war there. 

The point being they had peace BEFORE Russia started this crap. 

Russia sent commando units there. 

This is all the BS you lie about to push Russian propaganda. 

You are not interested in peace at all, you are interested in a Russian victory. 

Lol...did Russia start this bullshit? Has it ever occurred to you that the borders might have been drawn poorly? That all those Russians in the east...did not want to have Ukrainian language and culture foist on them? We're talking about lands that are culturally settled for hundreds of years. Hell maybe thousands. And when the Ukraine moved their forces in...which they did autensibly to quell an ethnic Russian uprising in the region, these people asked Russia for help...and they got it not from "the evil Putin" but from a vote in the Russian parliament. 

From where I'm sitting...on my deck after a nice round of golf...NONE of this is of any concern to me and I vehemently object to having this insignificant conflict foist on me and my nation.

ITS NOT OUR FIGHT!

And Ukraine is simply too small to fend off this incursion. 

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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20 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

 But have they ever threatened you?

Yes, Russia attacking another nation on the same planet as me with the intent to conquer it threatens every other country on earth, and thus every other citizen of those countries.

Quote

Conversely, up until Russia annexed Crimea, you and most people didn't care one iota for Ukraine. And why should you have? It was a backwards, rather newly formed country that couldn't even fit the bill to join NATO. But...you've been told that an "enemy" that has never threatened you, your nation, NATO, or Europe, is attacking a country you now need to be very concerned about. Have you ever even met real Russians or Ukrainians? Do you have any idea what their nations and cultures are like...at all? Yet you have the hubris to insist that you know what's best. That "DEMOCRACY" must prevail, in a country that right now is under martial law and is about as undemocratic as it gets. Stupid you.

It was common knowledge, for decades, that a war between the USA and Russia can NEVER be allowed to happen. Now you indoctrinated little "patriots" wanna risk humanity itself, for a country that is of no consequence to you, for your hatred of another country that has never threatened you.

Man...the stupid of this situation is fcking monumental.

The only thing stupid about this conversation is your ignorance of the threat an unchecked Russia poses to the planet we live on. Nuclear powers cannot be allowed to wage wars of conquest. Such a war is an existential threat to life on the planet. If they can conquer one country they can conquer more countries. If they are not stopped eventually their aggression cannot be tolerated and a nuclear exchange is inevitable. So they need to be stopped before things get to that point. If that leads to Russia launching nukes to prevent others from stopping it from invading other countries, than Russia was always going to launch nukes it's merely a question of how long until it happens.

You don't seem to give a shit if earth is doomed to be destroyed in 20 years as long as there isn't even the slightest chance of it being destroyed this year.

For the sake of the world, Russia needs to lose, nothing else will guarantee peace. 

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52 minutes ago, Videospirit said:

Yes, Russia attacking another nation on the same planet as me with the intent to conquer it threatens every other country on earth, and thus every other citizen of those countries.

The only thing stupid about this conversation is your ignorance of the threat an unchecked Russia poses to the planet we live on. Nuclear powers cannot be allowed to wage wars of conquest. Such a war is an existential threat to life on the planet. If they can conquer one country they can conquer more countries. If they are not stopped eventually their aggression cannot be tolerated and a nuclear exchange is inevitable. So they need to be stopped before things get to that point. If that leads to Russia launching nukes to prevent others from stopping it from invading other countries, than Russia was always going to launch nukes it's merely a question of how long until it happens.

You don't seem to give a shit if earth is doomed to be destroyed in 20 years as long as there isn't even the slightest chance of it being destroyed this year.

For the sake of the world, Russia needs to lose, nothing else will guarantee peace. 

For the sake of the world?

Lol...boy you got it bad.

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...did Russia start this bullshit?

Yes.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

Has it ever occurred to you that the borders might have been drawn poorly?

Russians drew up those borders after the Bolshevik revolution, over 100 years ago.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

That all those Russians in the east...did not want to have Ukrainian language and culture foist on them?

Russians are the minority in East Ukraine, and they ahve had no problem living there for the last century. In fact, in the old Soviet Union, Russia encouraged it's citizens to settle in non-Russian territories, like Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, etc.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

We're talking about lands that are culturally settled for hundreds of years. Hell maybe thousands. And when the Ukraine moved their forces in.

Ukraine owned that land upon the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Their forces were already in the area for over 20 years.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

..which they did autensibly to quell an ethnic Russian uprising in the region, these people asked Russia for help...and they got it not from "the evil Putin" but from a vote in the Russian parliament. 

You are making things up.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

From where I'm sitting...on my deck after a nice round of golf...NONE of this is of any concern to me and I vehemently object to having this insignificant conflict foist on me and my nation.

Then stop posting about it.

1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

ITS NOT OUR FIGHT!

And Ukraine is simply too small to fend off this incursion. 

They have done an admirable job for the past 31 months.

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20 hours ago, Videospirit said:

This alone should disqualify you from pretending you're here to debate anything. It is not opinion that Nationalist is Pro Russian, it's verifiable, and has been verified, to you no less. The post Nationalist made literally two posts before the post I'm quoting alone is all the proof anyone needs to understand that Nationalist is Pro Russian.

So it is either willful ignorance on your part, or your motives are malicious, either one disqualifies you from being taken seriously. If you aren't going to debate in good faith you don't deserve anyone to debate with you.

Look your new here, so i'll explain the rules, NO ONE is forcing YOU to engage with anyone on this forum, you have options skip over content you don't like,or use the ignore feature. or sign up for the moderation job until then... 

You seem to have joined the i jump to conclusion club, you have somehow managed to judge me over a couple of posts as you have Nationalist...I don't care what you think about this topic....I don't deserve to anyone to debate with anyone, and yet here you are joining fight club with no real substance to your post, put the gloves on newbie....

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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20 hours ago, User said:

Dude, this is just pathetic at this point. We literally have a screen grab of him cheering the Russians and you are like:

DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR hE iSnT a RuSsIaN cHeErLeAdEr DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Throughout this thread he has been pushing Russian propaganda that supports the Russians. In every other thread on this subject he does this. 

Of course he is not cheerleading the Russians on in some random thread about Biden or Trump or some other political issue of the day. That doesn't change anything. 

Its almost like you are projecting your own feelings onto him. The difference here is that he literally cheered them on and pushes Russian propaganda to support and justify and defend their invasion. 

No, his arguments here are literally pro russian. 

Its clear that what you think is based on willful ignorance at this point.

Perhaps that is what you think of yourself here and why you are mindlessly defending this guy? 

And what is your point here...This is my point I don't think he is a Russian cheerleader, regardless of what he has posted on this topic.......You and others are pissed because he is not following your script, to f*cking bad...........I've explained my  my opinion, it does not in any way harm you or any others in any way, no where does it say you have to like it........

Your clinging to what i say as if i was the PM and had some pull...fact is no one on here has any pull, or influence over anything other than your own lives....Instead of trying to understand his position you and other have done nothing but attack him....But it is fight club right...

Yes doctor phil tell me what i'm projecting, tell me what my therapist has not told me...

No i've read all of his posts on the topic, and a lot of them make sense and tell the other side of the story, or for you guys the forbidden side...and No everything he says is not Russian cheerleading but telling a side we don't get from our sources, History does not lie....but it does have many sides......and instead of looking at it and debating it, you and others go into attack mode...becasue this is fight club right....and Fuc* anything that does not fit into your narrative...

 

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We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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13 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

This is my point I don't think he is a Russian cheerleader, regardless of what he has posted on this topic......

So, your big point is that if you completely stick your head in the ground like an ostrich and pretend like you don't see any of the things he has said then you don't think he is a Russian cheerleader. 

OK, sure dude. Bravo. Yeah, if you totally ignore what he says on here... 

14 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

You and others are pissed because he is not following your script, to f*cking bad...........

Nope, now you are just lying. Pathetic. 

You could have just left it at you don't give a shit what he said and are ignoring it to come up with your self-deluded conclusion. 

16 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Instead of trying to understand his position you and other have done nothing but attack him...

You mean the position you are ignoring?

The position that was taken in a screen shot that literally shows him doing what we are criticizing? 

18 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

No i've read all of his posts on the topic, and a lot of them make sense and tell the other side of the story

LOL, you can't be for real. First you want to ignore what he says, now you want to claim they make sense and tell the other side. 

20 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Fuc* anything that does not fit into your narrative...

My narrative is the truth here. Yours is to ignore it and stick your head in the sand. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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6 minutes ago, User said:

So, your big point is that if you completely stick your head in the ground like an ostrich and pretend like you don't see any of the things he has said then you don't think he is a Russian cheerleader. 

OK, sure dude. Bravo. Yeah, if you totally ignore what he says on here... 

Nope, now you are just lying. Pathetic. 

You could have just left it at you don't give a shit what he said and are ignoring it to come up with your self-deluded conclusion. 

You mean the position you are ignoring?

The position that was taken in a screen shot that literally shows him doing what we are criticizing? 

LOL, you can't be for real. First you want to ignore what he says, now you want to claim they make sense and tell the other side. 

My narrative is the truth here. Yours is to ignore it and stick your head in the sand. 

Correct, and you can call it whatever you want....

No i did not ignore what he said, but i did read everything he has said on this topic....and i know this is a new thing but it is MY opinion that he is not a Russia cheer leader....lets move on...

Ask him to provide context behind that screen shot, thats what i would do, but instead you and other shave only attack him....i mean what would you do in that case....

Yes Thats what i said a lot of what he said makes sense to me,some of it does not,  it explains somethings i did not fully understand...

To be honest ,That's not what it seems like, the truth has many sides you are arguing from one side only.... Perhaps thats what it looks like to you....me sticking my head in the sand..do you lose sleep over nationalist position, does it effect you in anyway, is it one mans opinion...let me ask you do we shoot this fuc*er in the face for his crimes, or take it for what it is one mans opinion....becasue at the end of the day all of this is either entertainment( fight night) or a learning experience.......

We don't solve nothing here,world leaders are not reading our forum and having the light come on, the real question here should be why get worked up, unless this is all you have in your life...my boss use to say fight the fights that will make a difference at your level, the others that are above your pay grade are not your to fight...you can talk about them, but getting emotional about something you can not change or influence is silly....

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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1 hour ago, DUI_Offender said:

Yes.

Russians drew up those borders after the Bolshevik revolution, over 100 years ago.

Russians are the minority in East Ukraine, and they ahve had no problem living there for the last century. In fact, in the old Soviet Union, Russia encouraged it's citizens to settle in non-Russian territories, like Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia, Lithuania, etc.

Ukraine owned that land upon the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. Their forces were already in the area for over 20 years.

You are making things up.

Then stop posting about it.

They have done an admirable job for the past 31 months.

And at least 500,000 are dead...and for what?

Edited by Nationalist

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

And at least 500,000 are dead...and for what?

For Russian aggression and power. That is what. 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Correct, and you can call it whatever you want....

I call it like it is. You can't argue the facts so you are playing these dumb dishonest games with your head stuck in the sand. 

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

No i did not ignore what he said

Yes, you did. You even said that is exactly what you were doing:

"regardless of what he has posted on this topic..."

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

and i know this is a new thing but it is MY opinion that he is not a Russia cheer leader....lets move on...

Your opinion is shit. The facts are that he literally cheered Russia on. We have the stone-cold evidence. Ignoring it and declaring it is your opinion he didn't is just cowardly BS on your part. 

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Ask him to provide context behind that screen shot, thats what i would do, but instead you and other shave only attack him....i mean what would you do in that case....

He lies. This is not the first discussion it has been brought up in. He lied here saying he has never cheered them on. That is why it was brought up again. 

We don't have to ask him for context, he can admit he was wrong and provide it all on his own if he wants. Instead you two just deny it with your heads in the sand. 

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

To be honest ,That's not what it seems like, the truth has many sides you are arguing from one side only....

No, facts are facts. There are not two sides to making an assertion of fact. It is right or wrong. You playing this dumb game of obfuscation is what you do here. 

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

.let me ask you do we shoot this fuc*er in the face for his crimes, or take it for what it is one mans opinion....becasue at the end of the day all of this is either entertainment( fight night) or a learning experience.......

Shoot him in the face? Crimes? 

All you can do is make these obtuse comments and obfuscate. This all started because you are too dishonest to acknowledge that he literally cheered on Russia. 

You want to ask him the context, go for it. But that is not what you did that is not how this discussion went. You want to play these dumb games instead and just ignore it. 

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

We don't solve nothing here,world leaders are not reading our forum and having the light come on, the real question here should be why get worked up, unless this is all you have in your life...

You tell me. Why are you so worked up about this that you have to drone on and on and on, obfuscating and ignoring what he said? Is this all you have in your life?

3 hours ago, Army Guy said:

my boss use to say fight the fights that will make a difference at your level, the others that are above your pay grade are not your to fight...you can talk about them, but getting emotional about something you can not change or influence is silly....

So why are you here getting so emotional and fighting the fights you don't think make a difference? 

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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6 hours ago, Nationalist said:

For the sake of the world?

Lol...boy you got it bad.

We only have one Planet we can live on, we can't let Russia ruin everything for everyone else.

Sticking your head in the sand and going "It's not my problem" is unacceptable because mankind has too much military power. We need to enforce norms to prevent humanity from destroying itself.

Not that you actually stick your head in the sand and ignore the issue, you want Russia to win which is so much worse. Do you desire the destruction of life on earth that much?

This war isn't about whether or not Russia will conquer Ukraine, it's about whether the norms put in place to prevent the end of the world after world war 2 will survive. But you don't give a shit about the sacrifices made in world war 2 or any of the soldiers who have died since than to protect peace in the world, you just want to see Russia win because you find their success thrilling.

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9 hours ago, User said:

For Russian aggression and power. That is what. 

When a peace agreement is in place, and it will be if Trump wins the Whitehouse, do you think that deal will return the east to Ukraine?

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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8 hours ago, DUI_Offender said:

Defending their country,  you m0r0n. Aside from that, the ratio of deaths are 2:1 in favor of Ukraine.  Do maybe 125,000 at most.

No.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/troop-deaths-injures-ukraine-war-nearing-500000-nyt-citing-us-officials-2023-08-18/

500,000. And that was over a year ago.

8 hours ago, Videospirit said:

We only have one Planet we can live on, we can't let Russia ruin everything for everyone else.

Sticking your head in the sand and going "It's not my problem" is unacceptable because mankind has too much military power. We need to enforce norms to prevent humanity from destroying itself.

Not that you actually stick your head in the sand and ignore the issue, you want Russia to win which is so much worse. Do you desire the destruction of life on earth that much?

This war isn't about whether or not Russia will conquer Ukraine, it's about whether the norms put in place to prevent the end of the world after world war 2 will survive. But you don't give a shit about the sacrifices made in world war 2 or any of the soldiers who have died since than to protect peace in the world, you just want to see Russia win because you find their success thrilling.

Lol...yup...you got it bad.

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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1 hour ago, Nationalist said:

500,000 casualties,  both injured or fatalities on BOTH sides. Most military experts agree the injuries to fatalities rate is roughly 3:1, so that would mean roughly 125 000 deaths on BOTH sides.

Maybe try reading the link you present, considering you actually substantiate my argument. 

 

PS as of today, most experts following the war put the casualty rate of Russian soldiers alone at over 500 000.

Edited by DUI_Offender
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49 minutes ago, DUI_Offender said:

500,000 casualties,  both injured or fatalities on BOTH sides. Most military experts agree the injuries to fatalities rate is roughly 3:1, so that would mean roughly 125 000 deaths on BOTH sides.

Maybe try reading the link you present, considering you actually substantiate my argument. 

 

PS as of today, most experts following the war put the casualty rate of Russian soldiers alone at over 500 000.

Lol...your silly.

Do you honestly believe Ukraine will regain the land they've lost?

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

When a peace agreement is in place, and it will be if Trump wins the Whitehouse, do you think that deal will return the east to Ukraine?

If Trump wins? That is like a Bull in a China shop and asking me how much glassware do I think will be broken or left standing. 

 

57 minutes ago, Nationalist said:

Lol...your silly.

Do you honestly believe Ukraine will regain the land they've lost?

You told us Russia wants Ukraine to be an independent country. So... now you don't think that? Why would you claim what you did if you don't think Russia is giving any land back?

LOL, when people have to tell you they are ignoring you... 

From Robosmith: "IGNORE AWARDED DUE TO WORTHLESS POSTS. BYE."

 

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29 minutes ago, User said:

If Trump wins? That is like a Bull in a China shop and asking me how much glassware do I think will be broken or left standing. 

 

You told us Russia wants Ukraine to be an independent country. So... now you don't think that? Why would you claim what you did if you don't think Russia is giving any land back?

A bull in a Chinashop. Exactly! And when stampeded properly...dats-a big bull.

I think both Russia and Ukraine want ukrainian independence...I'd imagine. And I figure they will be. Only slightly...smaller. The key is NATO. I don't think Russia would agree to Ukraine membership in NATO. But we'll see. NATO is due for a face-lift anyway...maybe the 2 can work something reasonable out...and write it down signed and dated this time.

Its so lonely in m'saddle since m'horse died.

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14 hours ago, User said:

I call it like it is. You can't argue the facts so you are playing these dumb dishonest games with your head stuck in the sand. 

Yes, you did. You even said that is exactly what you were doing:

"regardless of what he has posted on this topic..."

Your opinion is shit. The facts are that he literally cheered Russia on. We have the stone-cold evidence. Ignoring it and declaring it is your opinion he didn't is just cowardly BS on your part. 

He lies. This is not the first discussion it has been brought up in. He lied here saying he has never cheered them on. That is why it was brought up again. 

We don't have to ask him for context, he can admit he was wrong and provide it all on his own if he wants. Instead you two just deny it with your heads in the sand. 

No, facts are facts. There are not two sides to making an assertion of fact. It is right or wrong. You playing this dumb game of obfuscation is what you do here. 

Shoot him in the face? Crimes? 

All you can do is make these obtuse comments and obfuscate. This all started because you are too dishonest to acknowledge that he literally cheered on Russia. 

You want to ask him the context, go for it. But that is not what you did that is not how this discussion went. You want to play these dumb games instead and just ignore it. 

You tell me. Why are you so worked up about this that you have to drone on and on and on, obfuscating and ignoring what he said? Is this all you have in your life?

So why are you here getting so emotional and fighting the fights you don't think make a difference? 

I said it was my opinion....i own it, you don't have to like it...as i don't have to like your opinions....

Again your opinion, let me check the forum rules, nothing sating everyone must be inline with my opinions, you staed your piece now it is time to move on...

once again shouted down becasue he is not following the narrative laid out by the few on this forum...

BS your not even listening to what he has to say, nor countering it with valid sources, shouting he is wrong is not debating it is fight club....

No your no listening to all the facts, nor are you even researching his points to see if they are valid or not....

He must be guilty of something you only wasted 10 pages of band width talking about it....so shot him in the face and save all these pages of grumbling.... 

Your becoming just like the other two not here to anything but call people names and fight....

I'm not worked up about anything, tired of all the bullshit that fight club brings...no discussions just bickering....and attacking...I'm playing the same dumb games you 3 are doing, except i'm not as emotional as you are...and yes i'm retired so yes this is part of my life now....you can thank me later...and in this case yes i think this is fight worth having ...

 

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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2 hours ago, User said:

If Trump wins? That is like a Bull in a China shop and asking me how much glassware do I think will be broken or left standing. 

 

You told us Russia wants Ukraine to be an independent country. So... now you don't think that? Why would you claim what you did if you don't think Russia is giving any land back?

We will see what happens in the US election in the coming weeks...

Putin is not going to give back any land, doing so will end him with russian citizens demanding he talk a walk in the wood.......he has lost way to much for it to be all for nothing....Ukraine does not have the men or resources to continue long term...NATO is not living up to it's promises, Ukraine is having major issues with recruitment and training...and the Kursk operation is turning out to be a major craw on manpower and equipment and not producing the long term results Ukraine wanted. ... 

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/09/22/ukraine-war-ethics-morality-murky/

Edited by Army Guy

We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.

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