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What is wrong with today's Conservatives?


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1 minute ago, I am Groot said:

Deemed? Deemed by whom?

 

 

I'll bet the answer is some extreme social justice believer who is deemed by the poster as representative of the movement of progressivism.

Meanwhile, Pat King supposedly wasn't associated with the Convoy according to some.

Can we get back to politics in the public sphere?  Or will it be endless tarring and name calling?

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9 hours ago, myata said:

Putin jails his political opponents - and then, he kills them. This is Iran; North Korea. So why do some Conservatives tacitly admire him? ("genius": and the resounding silence). Why wouldn't they want to stand up to him?

Astounding. Perplexing. And shameful. There are no words that can explain and excuse this. Disgusting too.

No conservatives admire Putin. However, Trump's allegiance to Putin, his visible and obvious deference to the man, his constant attempts to flatter and praise him have caused a part of the Trumptard political group to feel that Putin is somehow one of them, too. Trumptards aren't conservatives, though. They're slow thinkers with little going for them in life taken in by a snake oil salesman who promised them the world would be theirs.

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3 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

1. If you see me do this, call me out.  I'm not above being unreasonable at times.

So...why is it ok to "condemn" blue collar workers trying to protect their livelihoods, yet also ok to "condemn" the head bear for reacting to opposition in similar fashion to Pixie-Dust?

Is it the brutality of murder that sets them apart?

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1 minute ago, Nationalist said:

So...why is it ok to "condemn" blue collar workers trying to protect their livelihoods, yet also ok to "condemn" the head bear for reacting to opposition in similar fashion to Pixie-Dust?

Is it the brutality of murder that sets them apart?

Yes, it's the murder.

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7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Comparison of a murder

Am comparing a politician abusing of their power to silence dissenting voices that threaten their power.

Navalny was a direct threat to Putin.

9 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

Fair, and based on judicial review.

Meaning my point was made.

Did you call it trolling, and bluntly?

Because this is what it is. Most conservative voices I have heard would be quick to denounce Putin.

1 hour ago, myata said:

When did any of the alleged

Trudeau seized bank accounts of political opponents that threatened him. Held some in jail without a trial, and used the legal system to intimidate and silence them.

Again. Trudeau is in a country where you could not get away with killing these people.

The narsissism, the being out of touch with common folk, and using the media to crush dissent are all familiar, minus the extra you would get without the checks and balance.

1 hour ago, myata said:

Who cannot put two and two together? 

You're posting an out of context thread with  a clickbait title.

Essentially based on this, 2 + 2 to you = 7. 

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5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Yes really. Some of those charges have been deemed as politically motivated. The timing of it, the assumption of guilt. The fact some of these allegations are clearly hit pieces based on anyone who knows law, and how unlikely some of them are to do anything other than slow down his ascent.

You don't know law, and the folks who actually do keep ruling against him.  The folks deeming all his malfeasance "politically motivated" are only right in the sense that his shitty behavior gets scrutinized more.  You're talking about a man who's trying to argue that he has full immunity from criminal prosecution as a former president. Somehow that doesn't compute for you, and it's only because you don't want it to.  

 

Edited by Moonbox
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8 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

 Most conservative voices I have heard would be quick to denounce Putin.

 

I think I said that. Do you read what I post or do you just reply?

Most conservatives would not say that the arrests of the leaders, following due process, is at all comparable to a dictator having a critic killed.

 

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9 hours ago, myata said:

Putin jails his political opponents - and then, he kills them. This is Iran; North Korea. So why do some Conservatives tacitly admire him? ("genius": and the resounding silence). Why wouldn't they want to stand up to him?

Astounding. Perplexing. And shameful. There are no words that can explain and excuse this. Disgusting too.

You don’t know what you’re talking about.  

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1 hour ago, I am Groot said:

Trumptards aren't conservatives, though. They're slow thinkers with little going for them in life taken in by a snake oil salesman who promised them the world would be theirs.

Can agree, but isn't the distinction growing superficial, judging on the basis of the observed reality? If non-Trampian conservatives do still exist, shouldn't they have manifested their existence, by now?

More to the point, what will they choose, given the binary reality of the situation?

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5 minutes ago, myata said:

Can agree, but isn't the distinction growing superficial, judging on the basis of the observed reality? If non-Trampian conservatives do still exist, shouldn't they have manifested their existence, by now?

More to the point, what will they choose, given the binary reality of the situation?

There are non Trumptard conservatives down south, but they get less press because they're less outrageous. And the Trumptard voters are strong enough to deter public statements on the part of most politicians.

In Canada, we don't see much Trumptard influence on the Conservative party. There is some, because Poilievre is pandering to them to some extent because he wants them to support him and not the PPC. 

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1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Trudeau seized bank accounts of political opponents that threatened him. Held some in jail without a trial, and used the legal system to intimidate and silence them.

A wild assumption, misrepresentation or a lie almost in every other word. What's the point of writing a text with no other aim but to mislead, or just close?

The Freedom convoy leaders were not political opponents. They did not have a political program and did not participate in Canada's quasi-political pathetic imitation of a democracy process. They were a peaceful protest of citizens, however at some points, given recent factual experience, possessing means that can be employed as weapons.

It's a sad consequence of a fully intended political system in Canada where an overreach and even open lawlessness of a government cannot be stopped by any means. It was not created by Trudeau and can be used by any majority PM.

Trudeau did not hold people in jail unlike Putin, because Canadian (toy) courts still pretend to have some independence and (at least for now) serve not an individual in power, but the establishment, the status quo. They can rule against Trudeau and did (unlike Putin's pocket courts) for as long as it doesn't affect the establishment.

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1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes, it's the murder.

Ok I suppose that's semi understandable. Yet.. it means your "morality" is rather slippery. 

It's OK to ruin folks lives who oppose you, but not to kill them.

I can't accept either as being "moral".  In the case of Putin, I must make room for the different culture. Pixie-Dust does not deserve such consideration.

One turns a gun on his opposition, the other turns our laws on us...both quite illegal.

Edited by Nationalist
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9 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

And the Trumptard voters are strong enough to deter public statements on the part of most politicians.

That means that they are not detectable, do not manifest themselves in the reality. Can they still exist? thats for the philosophy. No one can't have it both ways at some point at least: pretending to have an independent opinion; and cowering, giving in and reneging on it. All at the same time.

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5 minutes ago, myata said:

A wild assumption, misrepresentation or a lie almost in every other word. What's the point of writing a text with no other aim but to mislead, or just close?

The Freedom convoy leaders were not political opponents. They did not have a political program and did not participate in Canada's quasi-political pathetic imitation of a democracy process. They were a peaceful protest of citizens, however at some points, given recent factual experience, possessing means that can be employed as weapons.

It's a sad consequence of a fully intended political system in Canada where an overreach and even open lawlessness of a government cannot be stopped by any means. It was not created by Trudeau and can be used by any majority PM.

Trudeau did not hold people in jail unlike Putin, because Canadian (toy) courts still pretend to have some independence and (at least for now) serve not an individual in power, but the establishment, the status quo. They can rule against Trudeau and did (unlike Putin's pocket courts) for as long as it doesn't affect the establishment.

More proof that you don’t know what you’re talking about.  It’s puzzling because your thread on Axis of Tyrants was pretty much bang on.  

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13 minutes ago, myata said:

A wild assumption

Bank accounts weren't seized?

People weren't held without trial for extended periods of time? Trivial crimes being trumped up, to keep them in jail?

18 minutes ago, myata said:

with no other aim but to mislead, or just close

Where did I assume and mislead? What do you want proven?

19 minutes ago, myata said:

The Freedom convoy leaders were not political opponents.

They brought forth strong political opposition to Trudeau, even potentially threatening his hold on power.

21 minutes ago, myata said:

Trudeau did not hold people in jail

He didn't personally, but put pieces in play for this to occur. He is limited by the laws of his country--something that I pointed out. He went as far as he could legally get away with.

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11 hours ago, myata said:

Putin jails his political opponents - and then, he kills them. This is Iran; North Korea. So why do some Conservatives tacitly admire him? ("genius": and the resounding silence). Why wouldn't they want to stand up to him?

I think it's because he's essentially a right wing strongman - he's very conservative with his power and distributes/concentrates as much wealth to himself and his cronies as possible.

There's nothing the least bit progressive about the man.

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11 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Some could argue the Democrats are doing the same.

Also, Canada has kept politically opposed protesters in jail, without a trial. Tried to get them put back while on bail, only to have this refuted.

Where's the outrage?

Some argue that Trudeau had a poster from here killed....goddess.

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44 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Bank accounts weren't seized?

People weren't held without trial for extended periods of time? Trivial crimes being trumped up, to keep them in jail?

Where did I assume and mislead? What do you want proven?

They brought forth strong political opposition to Trudeau, even potentially threatening his hold on power.

He didn't personally, but put pieces in play for this to occur. He is limited by the laws of his country--something that I pointed out. He went as far as he could legally get away with.

Are you serious?  They allowed these protests to continue for an extended period, not the Feds but local and provincial cops.

The bank accounts issue was never clarified as to which were frozen and why.

The whole episode was botched by the government who clearly thought that it was best to keep it going...

 

As for opposition, they made demands that were not serious, they were opposed by a majority of Canadians, and the target of their protest seemed to be the US government...

So much noise on this issue...

That said, most Canadians, being Canadian, pitied them...

Edited by Michael Hardner
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38 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

People weren't held without trial for extended periods of time? Trivial crimes being trumped up, to keep them in jail?

None of this is illegal in this country. Yes he can and sure, he does. Harper prorogued the Parliament because he could. Trudeau the first invoked martial for a regular in some places political emergency. He did not poison and kill his political opponents though. So they aren't not the same thing, and no, appalling as it is, not even close. Only extremely dumb or pathologically lying people, way beyond the constraints of the reality would insist on claiming that they are.

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2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Most conservatives would not say that the arrests of the leaders, following due process, is at all comparable

Thats because it isn't the same, other than the push to silence dissenting voices. 

This in my opinion, is wrong. 

One uses the media and overreaching powers, the other uses murder and bogus jail sentences. 

All I see is a system for the latter, that doesn't have checks and balances to prevent this. Where corruption is allowed to run rampant and at the roots of this system.

What essentially separates the west from Russia, among other things.

2 hours ago, Moonbox said:

You don't know law

Nor do you.

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3 hours ago, I am Groot said:

I can't help noticing in that list of corrupt leaders you somehow missed mentioning Trump.

Ummmm...

10 hours ago, CdnFox said:

. Trump is a pretty questionable character

Right there buddy.

I don't mind you calling me out when i've got it coming but at LEAST read the post before you say i did or did not do something.

Looks like Mike can't read either :)

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10 minutes ago, myata said:

So they aren't not the same thing

Where do I state they are the same thing?

I am eluding to abuses of power within the powers one knows they can use with little to no consequences.

Putin can use the mob, poison opponents. Trudeau can fear monger via the media, and suppress freedoms via legal overreach.

I see it like Trudeau scolding Xingping for Hong Kong. Its hypocritical.

Trudeau didn't modify laws, nor did he kill a soul, but this isn't because of moral high ground. He literally couldn't.

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2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Trudeau didn't modify laws, nor did he kill a soul, but this isn't because of moral high ground. He literally couldn't.

Welll....

 I mean he did kind of.  He changed a lot of laws for 'woke' reasons and it did directly result in many deaths. His bail bill for example has been directly tied to the release of repeat violent offenders who then immediately killed again while on 'bail'. The police and the provinces have been begging him to change it back but he doesn't want to 'look mean' to criminals.

He did unlawfully engage the emergency act and suspend the rights of his people.  And it's arguable that his covid rhetoric and policies lead to unnecessary deaths and a great deal of pain and anguish between families and communities.

 

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Note this section is CANADA FEDERAL.

Conservatives are conservatives not the populist isolationist equal to Franco 'social conservative' cult pretending to claim the name south of the border and definitely not welcome to infect Canada with their vitriol.
No actual Conservative supporter I've ever encountered supports Putin, and Harper is in Israel right now backing them fully. Some around here seem oblivious to the fact PP will welcome your vote and then kick the extremist views to the backroom.
Canada has always been run from the center and if that's too "left" for your liking you're S.O.L.

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