Does the NDP need a miracle? It needs two

[CdnFox]

https://archive.ph/LiU0D

Since Pierre Poilievre is riding high in the polls and his party’s war chest is bursting, does anyone seriously believe the NDP, with its relatively meagre resources, has the firepower to effectively degrade the Tory leader’s brand? Nope.

More specifically, it seems to me NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is wasting too much time and energy attacking Conservative Party Leader Pierre Poilievre. 

Indeed, what marked the NDP convention more than anything else was the steady drumbeat of attacks against the Conservative leader. 

As The Toronto Star put it, “Speakers at the NDP’s three-day convention in Hamilton mentioned Poilievre so frequently ... he could have been mistaken as the guest of honour.” 

Yet, in my view, the NDP can’t succeed by simply bashing the Conservatives. 

For one thing, since Poilievre is riding high in the polls and since his party’s electoral war chest is bursting with money, does anyone seriously believe the NDP, with its relatively meagre resources, has the firepower it’d take to effectively degrade the Tory leader’s brand? 

Besides, even if the NDP did somehow manage to turn voters away from Poilievre, odds are those spooked voters would likely end up fleeing to the party best able to stop the Conservatives, namely the Liberals. 

Edited October 30, 2023 by CdnFox

[CdnFox]

This article sums up the problem perfectly -  they can't go after the libs because otherwise how do they justify being in bed with them?  And if they go after PP  -  the voters who are worried about him will probably go the the libs 

and in fact the ndp may well start bleeding to the libs near the next election. You can bet that Justin will be pushing that - "join us to stop the evil Pierre!"

And every day the coalition continues that situation gets worse for the NDP. If they actually go into 2025 still tied at the hip people will never see them as anything but the liberals pets.

The question is does jaggers see this problem and if so does he care? or is he just going to ride it out and step down after the next one either way?

[Jack9000]

PP will win one election be disliked by the end of the term especially east of ontario and barely win a 2nd term before getting the boot in the 3rd election.. its a cycle.. he will get 6-8 years in  power then a new liberal or ndp  will come in.

Edited October 30, 2023 by Jack9000

[eyeball]

8 minutes ago, Jack9000 said:

.. its a cycle..

It's a pendulum, like a wrecking ball.

[Jack9000]

18 minutes ago, eyeball said:

It's a pendulum, like a wrecking ball.

yep may not even vote in next federal election  voted for trudeau 3 times since the ndp had 0 chance in my riding. the cons do absolute 0 for atlantic canada when in so got  0 interest in them and trudeau hasnt done much lately either the heat pumps and tax removel is only because polls sinking and even in my riding which the liberals have held since the 1990s is favoured to go conservative atm.

[herbie]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

It's a pendulum, like a wrecking ball.

Lurching from one side to the other hasn't done anyone any good.

As to the subject: no, it doesn't need a 'miracle' as core NDP voters value the NDP forced gains the Libs had to make. Not a damn one will vote Tory knowing all will be reversed or never fully implemented.
You seem to be under the silly idea that the NDP has to "win" to control the gov't when it only needs to thwart a majority.
Or that the voters will totally abandon their ideals because their party leader wears a turban, is popular with ladies, wears glasses  or speaks with an accent.

[Canadian_Cavalier]

The fact that the NDP has made no visible gains in the polls compared to their 2021 result, even with a bleeding liberal party, is a major failure on their behalf. Serves them right for propping up this gov and playing opposition on social media.

[CdnFox]

 

1 hour ago, Jack9000 said:

yep may not even vote in next federal election  voted for trudeau 3 times since the ndp had 0 chance in my riding. the cons do absolute 0 for atlantic canada when in so got  0 interest in them and trudeau hasnt done much lately either the heat pumps and tax removel is only because polls sinking and even in my riding which the liberals have held since the 1990s is favoured to go conservative atm.

8 - 10 years is the usual cycle. Every now and then you see someone break that and he may have a shot at that. We'll see.

The libs get in, trash the economy and divide the country - the conservatives get in, honk everyone off doing what's necessary to fix the problems, the libs get in - rinse and repeat .

But - times are slowly changing and most  importantly every 6 years or so the west gets more seats which changes the dynamic.  And this time i don't think things are going to be fixed quite so easily.

[CdnFox]

25 minutes ago, Canadian_Cavalier said:

The fact that the NDP has made no visible gains in the polls compared to their 2021 result, even with a bleeding liberal party, is a major failure on their behalf. Serves them right for propping up this gov and playing opposition on social media.

Yeah - these were pretty much the identical conditions that Jack Layton used to get ahead and become opposition ahead of the liberals.  And honestly the libs are within 4-6 points of the ndp, that's actually within striking distance of pulling that off again with a little work

But their deal with the libs completely torpedoed that. The junior parter in those deals ALWAYS suffers.

[Jack9000]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

 

8 - 10 years is the usual cycle. Every now and then you see someone break that and he may have a shot at that. We'll see.

The libs get in, trash the economy and divide the country - the conservatives get in, honk everyone off doing what's necessary to fix the problems, the libs get in - rinse and repeat .

But - times are slowly changing and most  importantly every 6 years or so the west gets more seats which changes the dynamic.  And this time i don't think things are going to be fixed quite so easily.

total lies lol..Harper did just as much damage as trudeau did by the time he left.. so its not just the liberals who  divide the country lmao.. i remember harper calling atlantic canadians a culture of defeatism.. yea thats gonna get our vote insult us.. so spare me I will never vote conservative even if pissed off with the liberals like i am now. would easily vote Ndp if they booted singh and put in charlie angus  but that doesn't look like happening  so yea.

[WestCanMan]

16 hours ago, CdnFox said:

More specifically, it seems to me NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is wasting too much time and energy attacking Conservative Party Leader Pierre Poilievre. 

Maybe he's bashing Trudeau all day but the MSM isn't covering it because it's all true. How would we even know?

If there's one thing we do know, it's that attacking the PC gets him free publicity. Any message that he'd like to convey outside of "PC's bad!" will cost him actual money. 

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, herbie said:

Lurching from one side to the other hasn't done anyone any good.

As to the subject: no, it doesn't need a 'miracle' as core NDP voters value the NDP forced gains the Libs had to make. Not a damn one will vote Tory knowing all will be reversed or never fully implemented.
You seem to be under the silly idea that the NDP has to "win" to control the gov't when it only needs to thwart a majority.
Or that the voters will totally abandon their ideals because their party leader wears a turban, is popular with ladies, wears glasses  or speaks with an accent.

Of course I don't think they need to win, no one does in my opinion. I'd much rather see a minority and I'm sure not likely to be adding my weight to the rightward trajectory things are on.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, eyeball said:

Of course I don't think they need to win, no one does in my opinion. I'd much rather see a minority and I'm sure not likely to be adding my weight to the rightward trajectory things are on.

LOL - dude you vote liberal   you could vote ndp but that's basically just voting liberal these days anyway.  You won't be voting conservative regardless of what trajectory they're on ( unless michael chong becomes leader!!)

[PIK]

NDP is done. Nothing but a bunch of activists. They are no longer the party of the worker,  they've lost that to the Cons. I watched some of their convention, it was sad. Seemed so unorganized. To much hate in that party.

[Jack9000]

2 minutes ago, PIK said:

NDP is done. Nothing but a bunch of activists. They are no longer the party of the worker,  they've lost that to the Cons. I watched some of their convention, it was sad. Seemed so unorganized. To much hate in that party.

cons being the party of the worker will never happen lol.. there the party of big corporation and oil executives . no party is for workers at the moment to be honest.

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

You won't be voting conservative regardless of what trajectory they're on ( unless michael chong becomes leader!!)

I'd even vote Liberal if he crossed the floor and took over its leadership.

Liberals wouldn't like him anymore than Cons do, and for the same reason.

[Nefarious Banana]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

 I'd much rather see a minority and I'm sure not likely to be adding my weight to the rightward trajectory things are on.

There was never any doubt about your communist leanings . . .

[herbie]

Can't make a sensible comment? Blow the dog whistles and parrot buzzwords thinking they're insults....

[CdnFox]

14 hours ago, eyeball said:

I'd even vote Liberal if he crossed the floor and took over its leadership.

 

Well of course you would - i mean you were going to anyway so.....

 

[CdnFox]

15 hours ago, Jack9000 said:

cons being the party of the worker will never happen lol.. there the party of big corporation and oil executives . no party is for workers at the moment to be honest.

The conservatives often have been the people's party and have taken that spot again recently. The left has screwed the middle class so badly it isn't funny, and only the dumbest of the dumb fail to realize that in this day and age. Times are tough and when times are tough people turn to the tories.  By the time the next election rolls around we could be looking at  a tory super majority. 

[Nationalist]

Been wading through this and...the NDP have a number of issues to overcome. Jagmeet has managed to make a mockery of the NDP...or more of a mockery than normal...and they have no realistic chance of gaining seats. The Canadian public are going to punish them for being...silly.

The Liberals are saddled with Pixie-Dust and his short little side-kick Yahooy. also a joke but on an international level.

The Conservatives have Polievre. Rational proposed policies and a very sharp debater in the HOC. I look forward to watching Jag-baby and Pixie-Dust wrestle with him on TV. It'll be an intellectual bloodbath.

What amazes me is that only Polievre has the nerve to say out loud what needs to be said...has the nerve to identify the simplicity of Canadian economic success...unleash the energy and mining sectors. Canada "should" be both wealthy and self-sustaining. Instead we're weak and have a Little Potato for a leader.

[Nefarious Banana]

14 hours ago, herbie said:

 Blow the dog whistles and parrot buzzwords thinking they're insects ....

'Note to Thyself' herbie?  

[herbie]

17 hours ago, PIK said:

NDP is done. Nothing but a bunch of activists

Activists are BAD... just BAD mmmm'kay?

Not like they're marching in the streets against gay rights. Muslim immigration banning books or something useful, eh? [/s]

[Jack9000]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The conservatives often have been the people's party and have taken that spot again recently. The left has screwed the middle class so badly it isn't funny, and only the dumbest of the dumb fail to realize that in this day and age. Times are tough and when times are tough people turn to the tories.  By the time the next election rolls around we could be looking at  a tory super majority. 

the people party lol yea okay sure you keep thinking that lmao. atleast under otoole they had a stable man at the held.. people like scheer and poilerve are nutcases and turn off  the average person more and more they speak.

Edited October 31, 2023 by Jack9000

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Activists are BAD... just BAD mmmm'kay?

Not like they're marching in the streets against gay rights. Muslim immigration banning books or something useful, eh? [/s]

Well they're unelectable.  And so you have to ask the question - is the ndp a serious political party that intends to get elected to represent people? Or are they an activist organization parading as a political party?

 Either way they're kind of failing at the moment.