Another example of why their is no dialogue in Canada with the left.

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, Nexii said:

Is this actually the curriculum or just a right-wing dogwhistle?

Why call it right wing, vs challenge it with actual data? Name calling is done to silence. To dismiss. "That statement was not intelligent". "It was crazy". It distances you from the person you're debating, and is done lazily. Why waste your breath if the person genuinely was such a waste of one's time?

Presenting facts that refute my statement, is actively debating. 

7 hours ago, Nexii said:

I'd like to see some proof of it, though given they're allowing drag queens in some schools it wouldn't surprise me.

The proof is how language is changing. The importance and trendiness of gender pronouns. Like how narssissitic and self important that one needs to be, to expect and demand to have their gender pronouns respected. I was at a Starbucks with a woman serving me, with "They/them" on her name tag.

So, if she forgot something on my order and I "excuse me miss" at her, I would me micro aggressing  her, somehow.

She was blatantly female. The fact she expects the world to understand she no longer has a gender is utter lunacy. Its also medically impossible.

The world couldn't care less, something she would realize once traveling.

The gingerbread gender teachings, that teach kids how fluid gender is. That gender can be assigned at birth. Gender fluidity is normal. Am an effeminate male. Surgically altering it, is not. Treatment for this, speaks volumes. Its mental illness.

You remove ones sense of identity, in starting at the language.

You look at how many regret transitioning, or the high suicidality of those who transition and the shaming for now allowing it, and if having any common sense, realize it's not about protecting the vulnerable. It's about indoctrination.

7 hours ago, Nexii said:

Saying gender is a choice

Gender is not a choice. You're born with a gender.

If trans, you can only alter that genders appearance. 

Telling a person otherwise is setting them up for disappointment, in realizing the bulk of planet earth will not play along outside of your safety bubble.

Kind of like a poodle that doesn't go out much, and literally thinks they're a lion, and lunging at pittbulls like they could totally destroy them. 

Thats what I see when I see these people.

Everyone around that poodle is laughing, but they legit believe that pittbull being held back by their owner, is shook.

"Hey, that's an unfair fight" being politely stated by the pittbull owner and retreating with their dog to appease the poodle, is literally what we are doing socially.

Everyone is thinking the same thing! "Bro, my dog could eat yours in 3 bites, max".

7 hours ago, Nexii said:

And I'd add that a lot of the woke pro-LGBT crowd probably aren't even truely LGBT themselves. 

Its a lot of elitist white people trying to be offended on the behalf of others. If you are truly in the community  you just want to be able to live your life in peace.

This movement was highjacked by them.

 

[Michael Hardner]

12 hours ago, eyeball said:

Maybe there's a bigger center than people realize.  Look at how many conservatives around here have been written off as left wingers these last few years for example.  I'm pretty sure there are lots of right wing progressives who'd move in their direction if they had the choice.

The problem with voting for the CPC means that you're voting for a party which includes a high percentage of deplorable chuds.  I figure that's around 25% of the party and 10% of the Canadian electorate.  As the next election draws closer Poilievre will need to scrape these off or face an uphill struggle trying to keep soft-boiled conservatives interested.

Especially the more triggered the hard-boiled ones get and start looking more deep-fried.  

The idea that having a Pride flag, or accommodation of diverse backgrounds is "left" is ridiculous.  The centre is pretty ok with most of this.

The marchers today make extreme claims, and then hold up the most extreme demands of some LGBTQ supporters as evidence of extremism.

Dialogue must be prioritized over protest and fighting.  The marchers are actually against Trudeau in this issue.  Why?  Who knows.  The Federal government has little to do with this compared to local and provincial government.  They also accuse teachers of taking it upon themselves to convince kids they're LGBTQ and accuse them of being pedophiles and groomers.

They use terms like battle and war, and evoke religious wars also.

Counter protest?  Absolutely.  They can see how much support for LGBTQ rights there really are.

 

[ExFlyer]

11 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Becasue that is were the conversation has moved, left or right... in this country, This is where the nation is today, thats not my doing thats the federal government being divisive, Do you think the right is pushing this LGBTQ issue. Not a chance...

This issue is political driven... once the PM makes a statement and takes a side it becomes a political issue or driven politically.... it shifts the entire conversation...

This issue is left, center who really don't care,  and right who want it to change...

I'm still the same guy i have been, only have no more patients for stupidity, of the left and woke...I do not see the current left political side of the spectrum as a viable source of government... out of 8 plus years of liberal reign i can honestly only say i have seen 3 or 4 pieces of legislation that was not a total waste of time... and it is not getting better, it is getting worse...

Seems you are talking about an issue in NB and in your school district in particular.

A PM (no matter which political party) will always say the least offensive thing about everything.

I think you are assuming only the "left" (whomever that is actually) are stupid and woke (whatever that is). "Right" wingers can be stupid and woke too. Even middle of the roaders are capable of being fools. People are people with varied opinions and change their perspectives all the time.

Everyone has opinions about everything, some "left" some "right" some middling and that is fine but to put things in a left/right bucket is not becoming to you.

[ExFlyer]

2 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Seems you are talking about an issue in NB and in your school district in particular. Isn't NB government conservative.... or right???

A PM (no matter which political party) will always say the least offensive thing about everything.

I think you are assuming only the "left" (whomever that is actually) are stupid and woke (whatever that is). "Right" wingers can be stupid and woke too. Even middle of the roaders are capable of being fools. People are people with varied opinions and change their perspectives all the time.

Everyone has opinions about everything, some "left" some "right" some middling and that is fine but to put things in a left/right bucket is not becoming to you.

 

[ExFlyer]

9 hours ago, Nexii said:

Yea I think many aren't that aware that teens even have rights by law on issues of medical care, visitation rights, etc. Or maybe more worrying don't believe that minors can have such capacity, kind of a return to pre 1900s times. A lot of things said here really remind me of some over-sheltering parents in my family. Children can be completely ruined and warped by that sort of upbringing

Pre 1900 times??

Were there trans, he/she/it, gay, asexual. bisexual, LGBTQ2+++ folks then or, is this a 20th and 21st century phenomenon??

If there were is there an increase in numbers or just empty closets?

Or, its it a just because we can situation?

Having coached kids for many many decades, the "helicopter parent" situation has become a real pain in the ass for anyone having to deal with kids.

[OftenWrong]

9 hours ago, blackbird said:

Apparently in some people's minds on here, parents have no role whatsoever except to provide room and board.  According to them there is to be no parental guidance, no teaching on right and wrong, etc., no discipline for bad behavior, but children and young people are to be completely free to do whatever they wish.  A complete free-for-all. 

Because they believe that the STATE has all-powerful authority, and is all-knowing and good.

They give full authority over their lives to the STATE.

[ExFlyer]

37 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Because they believe that the STATE has all-powerful authority, and is all-knowing and good.

They give full authority over their lives to the STATE.

Or is it that some people do not ant to make decisions or instill discipline  themselves.. They want someone else to make the rules so they can absolve themselves from parenting?

I am finding more and more folks debate and debate and end up with nothing and the authorities step in and make decisions for them and now they have someone else to blame for their own ineffectiveness.

[Nexii]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Pre 1900 times??

Were there trans, he/she/it, gay, asexual. bisexual, LGBTQ2+++ folks then or, is this a 20th and 21st century phenomenon??

If there were is there an increase in numbers or just empty closets?

Or, its it a just because we can situation?

Having coached kids for many many decades, the "helicopter parent" situation has become a real pain in the ass for anyone having to deal with kids.

I meant more in reference to minors not having rights. Child labor, arranged marriage and such. 

Yes a lot of it does come from the helicopter parent thing. What are the societal factors leading to parents wanting to protect their kids from any harm possible? I'd argue that its parents on all sides of the political spectrum these days. 

[Nexii]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Why call it right wing, vs challenge it with actual data? Name calling is done to silence. To dismiss. "That statement was not intelligent". "It was crazy". It distances you from the person you're debating, and is done lazily. Why waste your breath if the person genuinely was such a waste of one's time?

Presenting facts that refute my statement, is actively debating. 

The proof is how language is changing. The importance and trendiness of gender pronouns. Like how narssissitic and self important that one needs to be, to expect and demand to have their gender pronouns respected. I was at a Starbucks with a woman serving me, with "They/them" on her name tag.

So, if she forgot something on my order and I "excuse me miss" at her, I would me micro aggressing  her, somehow.

She was blatantly female. The fact she expects the world to understand she no longer has a gender is utter lunacy. Its also medically impossible.

The world couldn't care less, something she would realize once traveling.

The gingerbread gender teachings, that teach kids how fluid gender is. That gender can be assigned at birth. Gender fluidity is normal. Am an effeminate male. Surgically altering it, is not. Treatment for this, speaks volumes. Its mental illness.

Though Starbucks is not the educational system. I was being serious though, are schools actually teaching that gender is just a choice? The right wing likes to claim this but I haven't seen it stated in educational materials. That would be the proof or 'actual data'. 

Non-binary people do exist and should be validated too. But yea, you'd be going for a very androgynous look if you really were. Sounds like another example of someone who probably isn't really LGBT just trying to be a woke ally. They're a very small minority though, and I'd say the majority of people who 'claim' to be non-binary are not really at all. 

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

teaching that gender is just a choice?

No. That it is assigned at birth.

It seems that nobody dares question the above statement. At least, not in public.

You can't assign gender. It is recorded at birth.

To be assigned, implies that simply by looking at a baby's genitals, that by recording them based on them, somehow has you dictate to them what behaviors, clothing and and attitudes they must have to fit in socially.

This is just blatantly inaccurate, and a take trans activists seldom get challenged on. Same as when they deliberately conflate being intersex, as being male or female.

Also, recording a boy due to them having a penis is accurate virtually all the time, because this is all that is being done.

Children just don't have the capacity to choose their gender. 

They believe a fat man will jump down their chimney, to give them gifts in exchange for a cookie. Then fly away. 

This is the judgment that one feels is sound enough to undertake such a task? 

The assignment essentially eludes to you being able to feel like you were put in the wrong body. This is also false.

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

Non-binary people do exist

Gender non conforming people have always existed. Most in the "community" are nonconforming, including me.

To state if you feel you are in the wrong body, you can chop your t**s off (or suggest treatment, or withhold this from their parents) being taught to kids is wrong.

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

I'd say the majority of people who 'claim' to be non-binary are not really at all. 

The loudest certainly are not.

Most people who are trans just want to exist in peace.

[OftenWrong]

3 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

Or is it that some people do not ant to make decisions or instill discipline  themselves.. They want someone else to make the rules so they can absolve themselves from parenting?

Yep it's called the Nanny-state. 

Believing that state authority should be supreme is a hallmark of leftism. They need a big-bro.

That is why communism seeks to replace god with Dear Leader, because including god imposes a set of rules that are above the rules of the state, placing the final say on liberty between god and man alone. These rules are used to put a limit on supreme executive power.

[eyeball]

17 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

To be assigned, implies that simply by looking at a baby's genitals, that by recording them based on them, somehow has you dictate to them what behaviors, clothing and and attitudes they must have to fit in socially.

Why does it sound like you're dictating to them that they can't choose be different according to their own terms? They're interested in fitting in socially, starting with their own cohorts.

This business of fitting in is a two way street but with a couple roundabouts thrown in. Not everyone can get used to these either I guess.  Or is it ust to be different?

[Nexii]

38 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

No. That it is assigned at birth.

It seems that nobody dares question the above statement. At least, not in public.

You can't assign gender. It is recorded at birth.

Sex is recorded at birth on your birth certificate, not your gender. 

Though yes, I've said elsewhere our system is complete nonsense. You have to get your sex retroactively (and incorrectly) re-written on your birth certificate in order to get gender markers on everything else changed. It's because sex/gender get conflated into one thing, when they aren't the same thing.

 

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Nexii said:

Though Starbucks is not the educational system. I was being serious though, are schools actually teaching that gender is just a choice? The right wing likes to claim this but I haven't seen it stated in educational materials. That would be the proof or 'actual data'. 

Non-binary people do exist and should be validated too. But yea, you'd be going for a very androgynous look if you really were. Sounds like another example of someone who probably isn't really LGBT just trying to be a woke ally. They're a very small minority though, and I'd say the majority of people who 'claim' to be non-binary are not really at all. 

The problem is 'non binary' doesn't really have a definable  meaning when it comes to gender.  It's just become a 'term' which means 'Not primarily stereotypically male or female', and frankly EVERYONE is made up of a blend of female and male traits - and those traits are defined differently over time at whim.

There really are only two genders - and people are a blend of those traits. So discussing it gets to be a little difficult when you present it as if somehow this group of people is completely different and seperate than that group.

 

[Legato]

Put lipstick on a pig...it's still a pig.

[Nexii]

20 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The problem is 'non binary' doesn't really have a definable  meaning when it comes to gender.  It's just become a 'term' which means 'Not primarily stereotypically male or female', and frankly EVERYONE is made up of a blend of female and male traits - and those traits are defined differently over time at whim.

There really are only two genders - and people are a blend of those traits. So discussing it gets to be a little difficult when you present it as if somehow this group of people is completely different and seperate than that group.

 

Yea, apparently it's that they don't feel they have traits of either gender. Agendered would be a more accurate term, personally not a huge fan of non-binary. It's wordy and implies a lot of weird things (like that there are people that exist on some other spectrum?).

[OftenWrong]

7 minutes ago, Nexii said:

like that there are people that exist on some other spectrum?

Let's not forget to include pedo and animal zoo-philes. They all just want to fit in, too.

[CdnFox]

2 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Yea, apparently it's that they don't feel they have traits of either gender. Agendered would be a more accurate term,

Still falls within the two gender concept 😮   It just means the 'slider' for both genders is pushed to zero,  And honestly - it's probably not true. Are they claiming they have no empathy at all? Empathy is seen as a female trait. etc etc.

4 minutes ago, Nexii said:

. It's wordy and implies a lot of weird things (like that there are people that exist on some other spectrum?).

that's my problem with it.

Now - if someone says 'mentally i see myself as being a different sex/gender than i am physically' -  that's nice and easy to get your head around.  And fine, lets deal with that and what do you need from me sort of thing,

But 'non binary' sounds more like a spoiled teen who's having identity issues and basically wants to say "you don't understand what it's like!" - which is what every teen for the last 150 years has felt and told their parents.

Which leads me to think, there are so many different people out there that it's not right to teach the acceptance of any one group in schools - if we're going to teach something in school its that everyone is different and even tho that's the case and whether or not you AGREE with their differences you should respect and accept them.   Be it muslim, gay, christian, trans, dyslexic, single parent, two parent, etc etc.  As long as they're not irish.

 

 

[Nexii]

Yea perhaps androgynous then. I mean we had already had terms for these things, not sure how non-binary came about. 

[herbie]

17 hours ago, CdnFox said:

totally common sense to put the law in to make sure parents know the teachers support them

What a warped conclusion to arrive at. Teachers are there to teach kids, the parents are supposed to have already learned and it's pretty obvious a lot of them didn't.
If you actually think parents have any 'rights' other than to due process required to take their children away from them, you certainly have to understand that there never was, isn't now, and never will be the "right" for parents to teach their children to follow their own hate and discrimination. Be upset or disgusted at LGBTQ all you want trying to raise your kids to be the same is beyond disgusting

[CdnFox]

32 minutes ago, Nexii said:

Yea perhaps androgynous then. I mean we had already had terms for these things, not sure how non-binary came about. 

I believe that there is an inherent need for humans to classify themselves and people who feel that they don't fit in precisely to whatever the overton window of the day is tend to wish to classify themselves as  a seperate group, and there's a desire to use something as a symbol or term that they see as distinctive rather than just using an existing term or symbol.

Hair has historically been an example - the bowl cuts of the puritans, the squareheads, the long haired freaky people of the 60's

Once people have separated themselves into a group there's a tendency to go further and create an ethos and culture around that group and consider it to be wholly distinct from the group it broke from. Thought honestly it probably wasn't.

And this is what we're seeing today. And of course any group wants to be recognized as special and the like.

I think rather than try to teach that any one group is more special than another we should be focused on teaching that all groups are special

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, herbie said:

What a warped conclusion to arrive at.

It's based on your logic so....

Quote

Teachers are there to teach kids, the parents are supposed to have already learned and it's pretty obvious a lot of them didn't.

Didn't learn what? that they're not supposed to have a say in their children's up bringing?

I thought teachers were given a curriculum - i had heard PARENTS actually RAISE children.

You were the one who said no teacher would try to hide anything from the parent.

 

Quote

If you actually think parents have any 'rights' other than to due process required to take their children away from them, you certainly have to understand that there never was, isn't now, and never will be the "right" for parents to teach their children to follow their own hate and discrimination. Be upset or disgusted at LGBTQ all you want trying to raise your kids to be the same is beyond disgusting

Sorry kiddo - you're wrong.  But at least you outed yourself as a liar in the end.  So...  teachers DO know better than parents and they WOULD hide facts from the parents as well.  

So we do need  the law.  And in fact parents DO have rights in that regard - ask any family court.  And while you're at it ask the first nations if they believe parents have a right to raise children based on their own culture and religious beliefs.

Sorry kiddo. Your dishonesty proves the point.  Parents do have the right to know what's happening with their kids and they DO have the right to raise their children as they see fit as long as the necessaries of life are met.

And clearly we need more laws to hammer that home to these teachers.

[I am Groot]

21 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Sorry, but as a fellow LGBTQ member (am asexual), I am ashamed of a group I used to be welcome in.

These are not a 'group'. People who base their whole life on their sexuality have nothing in common with someone who is asexual. 

No more than the others have anything in common. To paraphrase a comedian.

Gays  "I love dick!"

Lesbians "I hate dick!"

Trans "I want to cut my dick off! We should all be a group!"

 

[Perspektiv]

28 minutes ago, I am Groot said:

Gays  "I love dick!"

Lesbians "I hate dick!"

Trans "I want to cut my dick off! We should all be a group!"

You've beautifully summed up woke logic with that very quote.

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 9/19/2023 at 6:50 PM, I am Groot said:

So are Jewish teens. I don't think the school routinely have "Jew Month" or put up Jewish flags or spend a day every year having their kids do projects and learn about Jews and Jewish history and great Jewish figures in history. Why not? What about Muslim Month? Native month? How come schools don't put up all kinds of banners and flags and decorations to celebrate wearing glasses? There are tons of kids who wear glasses who are routinely bullied and discriminated against throughout their lives!

I’ve no objection to any of that either way. However, I suspect ‘Jewish Month’ might be a better way to put what you don’t want there. 

Edited September 20 by SpankyMcFarland