CPC Policy Convention 2023

[Moonlight Graham]

56 minutes ago, eyeball said:

Then why get rid of publicly funded broadcasters? Virtually every country on the planet has one.

Because they're ideologically biased, and thus propaganda.  Whataboutism is not a valid argument.  State-funded news broadcasting also inherently carries a conflict of interest.  No healthy democracy should have a state-funded news organization, unless it can guarantee it to be 100% free of political and ideological bias in its reporting.  It should never, ever run opinion pieces.  I don't think any of this is even possible, therefore dismantle it.

Struggling private news outlets also have to compete with the giant that is CBC News.  Remove their #1 competition and they will thrive better, instead of the government throwing money at private news outlets, creating another conflict of interest.

Quote

Yes but to listen to you folks put it, the CBC never says anything negative about left wing governments in Canada which simply isn't true, at all.

I never made this claim, and I don't belong to any "folks", my arguments are my own.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Nexii said:

Yea it is weird to me to hear this to be honest. In times past, school would have been the least safe place to transition and last place I would come out. I can't imagine that's actually changed in most places?  

I honestly don't know - its been a very long time since i was in highschool.

I think teachers present this idea that it's only safe at school for less than honest reasons. I mean - i'm sure that many parents would be shocked and there would be adjustments to be made and such but the idea that children are somehow very likely to be harmed by their parents, that this is a common thing,  just because they're trans or the like strikes me as pretty unlikely. 

Quote

Either way the dual life thing is super harmful. Even worse than hiding your true self from your parents.

Has the ring of truth to it

But even more so -  if you think the parents are going to be angry because the kid is trans... imagine how furious they'll be when the find out that on top of it they didn't tell the parents but told everyone else and lied to their parents because they felt the parents might do something bad to them and can't be trusted.  Which is how it's going to sound no matter how you say it.

I think i would disown my kid faster for that than for being gay or trans. I would have a harder time understanding being a liar and a dishonest person than i would understanding that someone was trans.

[herbie]

12 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Because they're ideologically biased, and thus propaganda. 

Utter bullshit, endlessly repeated by the same cranky old farts. It's always been critical of the govt in power when criticism is due.
Many of you are incapable of distinguishing editorial from news, or even what is and what isn't news.

Stick to the National Post for your convenient full front page of zero news and only anti-Trudeau anti-Liberal MAGA ass kissing editorials.

[Queenmandy85]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

Actually there are many women ministers in some churches but they completely disregard the Bible's teaching that woman are not to teach or be authorities over men in the church.  Do you know there was even a lesbian on the NIV bible translation committee?  Today you don't have to look hard to find apostasy and false teaching in churches.  It is rampant.  According to the Bible women ministers is not biblical.  I think it is in 1st or 2nd Timothy.  You can look it up.

That is ironic since a portion of Genisus was likely written by a woman.

 

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

I would question whether a person is born that way.

You can question it but the answer remains yes they are born that way, just as you were born the way you are.

[Nexii]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

It's a surprise to those on the left.

I think what the cpc will support is the idea of parental rights whereby the parents MUST be involved, and that's appropriate.   Mike h - in an unusual fit of piratical common sense, suggested that it might be appropriate for the schools to have access to some species of councillor to meet with the parents on behalf of the school to help them understand what's happening with the kid and what paths forward might be available as it can be a bit of a shock.

But there has been a tendency for schools to aggressively push for kids to be considered trans and to be referred to surgeons and the like -  if they're going to do that then i say cut them out entirely.

Yea a councilor or similar was what I was getting at with a cooperative approach. Most teachers aren't going to have the skills to talk to parents in a helpful way. And it shouldn't be their job to. 

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, herbie said:

Utter bullshit, endlessly repeated by the same cranky old farts. It's always been critical of the govt in power when criticism is due.

No, it hasn't. It very often is not. It very often misses stories that SHOULD be important but go seriously underreported or not reported at all.

And they lie frequently to benefit the libs and attack any conservative gov't.  Again - look at danielle smith during her election, and there are MANY examples.  In harper's day they got caught editing tape to make it look like he replied to a person's question in a very negative way when in fact his answer was for something entirely different.

They report just enough on the libs so that they can still claim they're doing their job.  But honestly they don't. And when they do report they use emotionally desensitizing language to downplay the bad stuff about the libs and emotionally charged language to make the cpc sound worse.

These are well recognized facts.  A very left of center reporter quit there not long ago citing just how corruptly left wing the cbc had become.

Nobody sane thinks the cbc is unbias. I know - you think if you repeat a lie enough that people will believe it's true. You're a liberal after all.  But sorry - we know the truth. See ya after the next election.

 

 

[Moonlight Graham]

2 hours ago, herbie said:

Utter bullshit, endlessly repeated by the same cranky old farts. It's always been critical of the govt in power when criticism is due.
Many of you are incapable of distinguishing editorial from news, or even what is and what isn't news.

Stick to the National Post for your convenient full front page of zero news and only anti-Trudeau anti-Liberal MAGA ass kissing editorials.

Let me guess, you're a progressive?

The National Post is a rightwing rag and an embarrassment to journalism  But it's not owned by the government, they can print whatever opinions they want due to free speech and we're all also able to ignore it.

Our tax dollars shouldn't be funding a state-owned news outlet that basically all progressives vehemently defend as "unbiased" while conservatives in the country complain about its progressive slant.

It seems to me that progressives who defend CBC News as unbiased are either incapable of recognizing its biases because a bias they agree with they feel isn't a bias but "the truth", or so smug that they belief all conservatives are "crazy" or "dumb", or are actually evil and recognize the CBC's bias and want it to continue.

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Because they're ideologically biased, and thus propaganda.  Whataboutism is not a valid argument.  State-funded news broadcasting also inherently carries a conflict of interest.  No healthy democracy should have a state-funded news organization,  

All of them do, all countries.  They are biased towards status quo whereas corporate media are biased towards corporate thinking.

[Michael Hardner]

38 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

 

Our tax dollars shouldn't be funding a state-owned news outlet that basically all progressives vehemently defend as "unbiased"  

Not a good reason.

Your #1 press example the Post is American owned.

[eyeball]

3 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

I never made this claim, and I don't belong to any "folks", my arguments are my own.

No they're anything but that. They mirror those of the same folks.

I simply don't buy the nonsense that the bias you're apparently so frightened of is influential to the point that its propaganda.

Are there any examples of countries that have done away with their public broadcasters that has resulted in struggling private broadcasters suddenly blossoming and thriving amidst a media environment where workers, journalists and owners are all unbiased to a fault?

Perhaps the reason they're struggling is because their business model is just not viable. Which still leaves the importance of having a free press.

If anything the media playing field, especially in the US, is presently dominated by big privately owned corporate broadcasters that are all too often horizontally integrated with other huge corporate interests their owners hold. What sort of bias do you think these might be interested in promoting?

I've told you repeatedly now how we should best combat the perception that we're governed by secretive biased control freaks. But like a lot of people you're apparently unable to imagine how 40 million of us could possibly keep a better closer eye on 380 or so parliamentarians, cabinet ministers and PMO.

Maybe you're just biased against doing so.

Edited September 11 by eyeball

[CdnFox]

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/it-s-a-privilege-not-a-right-to-know-your-kid-s-gender-identity/article_b35628fa-5761-5087-b7a2-3db9dc49e2f2.html

It’s a privilege, not a right, to know your kid’s gender identity

 

 @Nexii,  this is the crap that's going to create the backlash.  Imagine telling parents that it's a privilidge NOT A RIGHT to know important information about their children's mental health.

From the people who brought you 'beer and popcorn' quotes and 'if we let parents raise their kids they'll be criminals',  we now get this - you have NO RIGHT knowing your child's mental health.  Teachers do - parents don't.

Honestly - i've been a proponent for gay rights and strongly advocate for sympathy towards trans peoples for most of my life and stuff like this just makes me want to support throwing every single one of their rights in the garbage can. They are going WAY too far. Telling parents they're not qualified to raise their kids....  wow.

[blackbird]

3 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

You can question it but the answer remains yes they are born that way, just as you were born the way you are.

I think that is false.  If there is no biological proof, then people can stamp their feet and shout as much as they want that they are born that way.  But it cannot be a fact if there is no proof.

[TreeBeard]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I think that is false.  If there is no biological proof, then people can stamp their feet and shout as much as they want that they are born that way.  But it cannot be a fact if there is no proof.

When did you choose to be straight?

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, blackbird said:

But it cannot be a fact if there is no proof.

It could be a miracle.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not a good reason.

Your #1 press example the Post is American owned.

The Post is terrible and shouldn't be owned by an American company.  Not sure what that has to do with the CBC.  The post popular news org in the country shouldn't be owned by the government, it's insane.  There is no good reason for CBC News to exist.

Canwest and Sun Media shouldn't have been able to be combined into Postmedia.  Canada's news media landscape is a joke, its centralized newspapers largely owned by a single owner, plus, government news plus a handful of other outlets.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The Post is terrible and shouldn't be owned by an American company.  Not sure what that has to do with the CBC.  The post popular news org in the country shouldn't be owned by the government, it's insane.  There is no good reason for CBC News to exist.

Canwest and Sun Media shouldn't have been able to be combined into Postmedia.  Canada's news media landscape is a joke, its centralized newspapers largely owned by a single owner, plus, government news plus a handful of other outlets.

Well crashing the cbc into the ground should free up a lot of ad dollars for other indy papers and such to help them make a go of it. CBC sells ad space at slightly below market rates - not hard to do if you get over a billion in funding form the gov't.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

Not a good reason.

All the progressives here agree with you, as I predicted.  They want the state-owned left-leaning news to continue.  I wonder why?

"Fair and balanced" CBC interviews of Jordan Peterson, a Hardner-approved takedown:

 

 

Edited September 11 by Moonlight Graham

[eyeball]

15 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

All the progressives here agree with you, as I predicted.  They want the state-owned left-leaning news to continue.  I wonder why?

I want it as a counterweight to the biases of private-owned right-leaning news. Alongside each other the two are complementary to the media landscape. On their own they'd be propaganda.

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, eyeball said:

1.  No they're anything but that. They mirror those of the same folks.

2. If anything the media playing field, especially in the US, is presently dominated by big privately owned corporate broadcasters that are all too often horizontally integrated with other huge corporate interests their owners hold. What sort of bias do you think these might be interested in promoting?

3. I've told you repeatedly now how we should best combat the perception that we're governed by secretive biased control freaks. But like a lot of people you're apparently unable to imagine how 40 million of us could possibly keep a better closer eye on 380 or so parliamentarians, cabinet ministers and PMO.

1.  I don't care who my views mirror.  This is a "guilt by association" logical fallacy.  https://owl.excelsior.edu/argument-and-critical-thinking/logical-fallacies/logical-fallacies-guilt-by-association/

I don't change my views based on who else shares them, i'm not trying to win a popularity contest and i'm not a coward, my only concern is what policies and actions are best for society.

2.  The point is every media outlet has a bias.  Apparently you think either CBC News doesn't, or does and that's ok because it largely agrees with your biases.  CBC News can suck it, and I don't want a dime of my tax dollars spent on it.

3.   I share these views of yours and have told you this repeatedly.

Corporate control of our politics, foreign control of our news media and politics, and editorial control of our public broadcaster by self-righteous Toronto eggheads all needs to be dismantled.  Our democracy shouldn't be controlled by anyone but Canadian voters and should overwhelmingly represent their interests.

[Moonlight Graham]

1 minute ago, eyeball said:

I want it as a counterweight to the biases of private-owned right-leaning news. Alongside each other the two are complementary to the media landscape. On their own they'd be propaganda.

The state broadcaster shouldn't be a left-leaning counterweight.  It should be completely unbiased, which is impossible, especially in this media landscape.  You can read the Toronto Star LOL.  I read the G&M, the only outlet still in the journalism business.

[blackbird]

2 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

When did you choose to be straight?

Didn't make a choice.  Was never confused or in doubt thankfully.  Apparently some very small number of children become confused on this.  But their parents need to explain biology to them as soon as possible and try to guide them the right way and accept who they are.   Gender dysphoria should never be left untreated.  Parents may need professional help. Would you agree?

[Nexii]

7 hours ago, CdnFox said:

https://www.thestar.com/opinion/contributors/it-s-a-privilege-not-a-right-to-know-your-kid-s-gender-identity/article_b35628fa-5761-5087-b7a2-3db9dc49e2f2.html

It’s a privilege, not a right, to know your kid’s gender identity

 

 @Nexii,  this is the crap that's going to create the backlash.  Imagine telling parents that it's a privilidge NOT A RIGHT to know important information about their children's mental health.

From the people who brought you 'beer and popcorn' quotes and 'if we let parents raise their kids they'll be criminals',  we now get this - you have NO RIGHT knowing your child's mental health.  Teachers do - parents don't.

Honestly - i've been a proponent for gay rights and strongly advocate for sympathy towards trans peoples for most of my life and stuff like this just makes me want to support throwing every single one of their rights in the garbage can. They are going WAY too far. Telling parents they're not qualified to raise their kids....  wow.

It's a weird title for the article because it doesn't go with what the parents said at all lol. Clickbait stuff. 

Yea in most cases (like this one) children are going to tell their own parents before the school. I know I would have.

Edited September 11 by Nexii

[Michael Hardner]

4 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

1.  Not sure what that has to do with the CBC. 

2. The post popular news org in the country shouldn't be owned by the government, it's insane. 

3. There is no good reason for CBC News to exist.

4.  Canada's news media landscape is a joke, its centralized newspapers largely owned by a single owner, plus, government news plus a handful of other outlets.

1. Because the media landscape is lacking, as you point out in #4.  One less player, with a national and not corporate foundation would not improve things.

2. I think that you aren't reading my posts.  I already pointed out that every country does this.  If it's insane then ask yourself why.

3. Because delivering content to a geographically dispersed nation is a service that isn't always profitable yet still necessary?  Because journalism is a necessary foundation for an informed public and corporate sources don't care about that?

4. So you want to eliminate another large source of reporting.  That doesn't help.

Every source is biased, the question is more about how objective they try to be.  Does the source issue retractions?  Do they abide by peer council conclusions?  Do they provide alternative perspective l, provide depth, analysis, further the cause of informing the public?

 

[Queenmandy85]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Gender dysphoria should never be left untreated. 

But you are saying they should not be treated. The treatment, the way to match a person's body with the gender of their mind, is gender reassignment surgery, unless you know of some way to change the make -up of the mind.

[Queenmandy85]

6 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

The state broadcaster shouldn't be a left-leaning counterweight.  It should be completely unbiased, which is impossible, especially in this media landscape.  You can read the Toronto Star LOL.  I read the G&M, the only outlet still in the journalism business.

Why are we so focused on the news part of the CBC. The CBC provides a lot of quality programming that has nothing to do with news. The Nature of Things, Coronation Street, As it Happens, Under the Influence and a lot of quality childrens' programming. The problem is we need a source of programming for a range of demographics, spread out over the second largest country in the world. At the same time, we are bombarded by American content and culture. The CBC has given us Don Messer, Hockey Night in Canada, This Hour Has Seven Days (a progam so good at holding government's feet to the fire that the Liberals forced it off the air) and Front Page Challenge. How many of you were raised on the Friendly Giant and Mr. Dressup.

The private networks rely more on American programming and very little educational content. 

As for news, there has been a decline in the CBC News. That is due to cutbacks in funding. The CBC used to have permanent bureaus all over the world. Now it doesn't have the funding. You only have to look at NRK, the Norwegian public broadcaster. They have a reputation for getting an international story first and getting it right. Their documentary on the US election that brought President Trump into office, was the most insightful analysis I've ever heard. It was in depth and without bias. That is what the CBC News should be, but you don't get that for free. If we lose the CBC, you can bet there will be an even greater danger of losing our distinct culture. Attacking our institutions is no way to build a nation.