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We played our hand with how we handled the Covid Virus. Now our enemies know.


NYLefty

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3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Trump had no vaccines, and thus little chance. The fact the ensuing waves didn't drop dramatically in a short period of time is a testament to that.

Vaccinations to your most vulnerable, was your best means of survival.

You're wrong. There were many OTHER measures (like testing, tracking and quarantine) which were IGNORED by Trump because he was trying to HIDE the pandemic.

As illustrated by his comments ON TAPE to Woodward, in which he admitted it was much more serious than he was saying PUBLICLY. AKA, LYING.

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4 hours ago, robosmith said:

The failure was almost entirely Trump's. The ONLY thing he did right was PROMOTE the rapid development of the vaccines, which he then FAILED to promote the distribution and use of.

Yes because he was too busy trying to make deals to profit off of it. Germany has first hand proof and they basically told him to f*ck off

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One of my prior careers ( and I had several lengthy ones) was as a senior research editor to a Chief of Staff in Medical Research at a U. S. Government location.  I have to agree that you have surmised correctly what Communist China's intent is with researching bacterial deadly diseases in the first place. But lets not call.it a Conspiracy as another responder calls it but what it is, one of multiple shots against our defenses, the same as their cyber hackers, their currency threats recently and their cozying up to the Prior Administration's chief buffoon who, in exchange for the promise likely in  getting "exclusive "  right to having a hotel property in Beijing and a golf course in Shanghai, gave away, or more likely sold and traded a lot of those classified documents he knowingly stole from the Oval Office when he left, as well as whatever he took before that . Make no mistake, thanks to the GOP's delaying tactics on any intelligent legislature in the past twenty years while they send America downhill and paint multiple targets on us ,and our financial markets, they have been and are now accelerating their attack fronts. We need to dismiss any politician that refuses to discuss concrete structure plans to advance America and it's allies into a much stronger position economically and socially and politically as well as militarily or we should all start learning Mandarin. 

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14 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Ya see @Perspektiv, even though there have always been records from the Spanish Flu, somehow it was all "unreliable". And why?

Because the one conclusion they left humanity with, was don't lock the public up.

I remember reading and posting in March of 2019 conclusions about the Spanish Flu that clearly showed jurisdictions that locked down harder and longer had less illness and fewer deaths. History also showed these recovered faster and were doing better economically sooner than more reckless jurisdictions.

I pointed out then how the US would suffer the worst in terms of dead people due to the nature of their issues with liberty.

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From Dr. Colleen Huber's book:  RE:  The Spanish Flu

Let’s first dispense with a misconception.  The so-called Spanish flu was neither Spanish nor the flu. 

Spain had declined to suppress news stories of the sudden increases in non-combat deaths as World War I drew to a close.  This was as other countries had chosen to suppress such news stories, presumably in order to maintain public morale.  Unlike other western European countries, Spain remained neutral in World War I.   US, British, French and German troops were deployed widely, as far away as Asia and Africa, and it was conceivable to the reasonable mind that the new outbreak of flu was being carried by all this travel, although the media of the combatant countries were reluctant to report such means of contagion.  (However, we shall see below that such transmission was more likely bacterial than viral.)  In the UK, newspapers were prohibited by the 1914 Defense of the Realm Act from discussing any details of the new contagious pandemic.  This article discusses that censorship.

Neither did the influenza originate in Spain, nor was it nearly as bad there as in other countries, in terms of morbidity or mortality.  Rather, the Spanish were the first to report it, and without motive to censor it, and so that name stuck.

That 1918-1919 flu was not nearly so deadly as cholera, a bacteria-borne infectious disease that devastated New York City a number of times in the previous century.  1832 and 1849 saw mass deaths and exodus from Manhattan, as sanitation infrastructure had not yet developed to keep up with a skyrocketing population; the city’s burgeoning sewers were  reservoirs of this fecal-carried bacterial disease.   The following New York Times graph shows how deadly cholera was.  Despite the graph’s caption, the deaths were mostly due to cholera; there was little smallpox in NYC at the time. It was not for another half century that clean water would be brought from the Catskill Mountains of upstate New York, and 6,000 miles of sewers were built to carry away waste.

Boris Borovoy and I argued in December 2020 that it is always necessary to look at all-cause mortality as necessary to put a pandemic’s alleged lethality into perspective.  As the following graph shows, COVID took the death rate in New York City back to about the 1950 to 1990 level, which was strangely enough an era when people were not panicking about the typical 1 in 100 annual death rate, and that time has even been considered the heyday of US prosperity and quality of life.

 

US mortality data show that clean water, indoor plumbing, effective sewage routing all made the difference to decisively reduce infectious disease deaths to a small fraction of earlier, and that this change occurred before the disease-named vaccines came into common use.  The WHO acknowledged this pivotal role of sanitation before they removed that page.

 

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Nor was the “Spanish flu” primarily an influenza pandemic

20 million to 100 million deaths were blamed on the so-called Spanish flu, depending on who retells the history. The CDC’s official story was that it was thought to be an H1N1 strain of influenza. 

However, you may already know that in those same years, 1918-1919, the newly invented wonder drug aspirin was often generously dosed at over 1,000 mg, which people learned a bit too late to be a potentially lethal dose, an imminent risk for internal bleeding.   Reye’s syndrome, a toxicity cause by excessive aspirin, mainly affecting brain and liver, is a result of dosing aspirin at 25 mg/kg, or about 1500 mg for an adult of that era.  At peak pandemic fear, a London doctor “drenched” his patient at 1300 mg per hour for 12 hours, which was similar to widespread dosing given less frequently according to the British Ministry of Health.

There are four lines of evidence that support the role of salicylate intoxication in the 1918 flu pandemic.  Pharmacokinetics is one.  This assesses dosing with respect to clearance of a drug from the body.  In the case of zealous dosing of aspirin, a state of toxicity is quickly reached, before much of the drug is eliminated.  Of that era’s aspirin enthusiasm, Karen Starko writes, “These recommended doses (1000-1300 mg), with frequencies ranging from hourly to every 3 hours, resulting in daily doses of 8-31.2 grans, are above the maximum safe doses….”

Meningococcus vaccine experiment on US soldiers

Also, at the time there were experiments with typhoid, paratyphoid and meningococcus vaccines, beginning with the military.  The meningococcus vaccine, which had been cultured in horses, was one of a number of previously developed vaccines that were used in US troops at Fort Riley, Kansas in a military vaccination experiment in 1917-1918.  The ambitious goal had “the object of producing a serum which would protect against any pathogenic strain that might be encountered,” according to Dr.  Frederick Gates in his report of the experiment.   As dosing ramped up in the experiment, more and more severe reactions, both local and general, were reported.   Within a few months, 100 men per day were showing up at the infirmary.  Some of the first to take ill described a “bad cold.”   Experiment-stricken soldiers were reported to have flu-like symptoms, coughs, vomiting, diarrhea.  Fort Riley soon became the place where the first “Spanish flu” case was reported.  Many new vaccines were also deployed on the public during this same 1918-1919 period. 

Then as now, vaccine naming and manufacture sloppily associated the new products with known diseases, more or less. 

“Drug manufacturers aggressively promoted their stock vaccines for colds, grippe and flu.  These vaccines were of undisclosed composition.  As public anxiety and demand swelled, there were complaints of price gouging and kickbacks,” according to John M Eyler, PhD, The State of Science, Microbiology and Vaccines circa 1918, also citing S Haythorn, Studies on epidemic influenza comprising clinical and laboratory investigations…

Eyler’s paper is a revealing exposé of the hucksterism and opportunistic re-branding of old vaccines to address new fears that more brazenly characterized vaccine salesmanship in the 1918-1919 “pandemic” than today’s more sophisticated attempts and science veneer polishing, in order to market pandemics and vaccines in recent decades.

Dr. Gates, who reported on the Fort Riley experiments, in his paper on that vaccine experiment described soldiers’ symptoms after injections as follows:

“Several cases of looseness of the bowels or transient diarrhea were noted.  This symptom had not been encountered before.  Careful inquiry in individual cases often elicited the information that men who complained of the effects of vaccination were suffering from mild coryza, bronchitis, etc. at the time of injection.  Sometimes the reaction was initiated by a chill or chilly sensation, and a number of men complained of fever or feverish sensations during the following night.  Next in frequency came nausea (occasionally vomiting), dizziness, and general ‘aches and pains’ in the joints and muscles….  The reactions, therefore, occasionally simulated the onset of epidemic meningitis ….”

As World War I wound down, and the injected soldiers returned home about 10 months after the experiment, they carried “colonizing strains of bacteria, particularly pneumococci, hemolytic streptococci, H. influezae and S. aureus.

The Rockefeller Institute had prepared the horse-serum meningitis vaccine that was used on the soldiers, and then distributed the bacterial mixture to England, France Belgium, Italy and other countries.   It was promoted urgently, using the pandemic fear zeitgeist, of which we are all now too familiar once again, in order to boost sales and uptake of this highly poisonous vaccine that was both named for and contained contaminants of meningococcus.

 

Secondary bacterial pneumonia drove many COVID-19 deaths, which were found to exceed viral-caused deaths, researchers found, although the two causes were not always easy to sort out.

In 2008, Anthony Fauci’s team found this same cause of death, bacterial pneumonia, in every cadaver examined from the 1918 - 1919 “Spanish” flu pandemic, in their evaluation of autopsies of 9,000 subjects’ tissue.

Those two periods, 1918-1919 and 2020-2021 had another feature in common.  They were the only times in US history that a majority of people wore masks. 

My research team, an epidemiologist, a microbiologist and I, showed in 2020 that masks have the effect of incubating bacteria to quickly expanding colonies on the inside surface of facemasks and in the warm, moist airspace between a mask and the airways.  Welcome, bacteria; here’s your comfortable home.  Worse yet, the air hunger resulting from stifled breathing causes more labored and deeper inhalation, which drives bacterial overgrowth deeper into the lungs than an unmasked person would experience.

Reuters disagreed

Reuters criticized our reporting of this association, by using a sly strawman argument:  “Fact check: Fauci did not attribute 1918 Spanish flu deaths to bacterial pneumonia caused by masks,” and showed my tweet on the subject.

That’s correct, Reuters.  Fauci did not make that connection.  It was our research team who made that connection between masks and bacterial pneumonia deaths.  Fauci merely reported that “Spanish flu” mortality, which was at the time, and in the century since then, blamed on an H1N1-type influenza, was in fact more likely to be the result of bacterial pneumonia.  We took that finding a step farther and indicated the known widespread use of facial bacteria-incubating devices at that time.  We opined that this potential contributor to bacterial pneumonia deaths was not only the case in 1918-1919, but likely made at least some contribution to mortality that was blamed on SARS-CoV-2 infection.

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3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Or choosing not to fear monger. 

He told the truth to Woodward, which was what the EXPERTS at CDC were telling him.

The truth is NOT fear mongering, it is reasonable motivation to take precautions.

Precautions which were not taken due to his LYING to the public about the level of danger.

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

From Dr. Colleen Huber's book:  RE:  The Spanish Flu

Let’s first dispense with a misconception.  The so-called Spanish flu was neither Spanish nor the flu. 

Spain had declined to suppress news stories of the sudden increases in non-combat deaths as World War I drew to a close.  This was as other countries had chosen to suppress such news stories, presumably in order to maintain public morale.  Unlike other western European countries, Spain remained neutral in World War I.   US, British, French and German troops were deployed widely, as far away as Asia and Africa, and it was conceivable to the reasonable mind that the new outbreak of flu was being carried by all this travel, although the media of the combatant countries were reluctant to report such means of contagion.  (However, we shall see below that such transmission was more likely bacterial than viral.)  In the UK, newspapers were prohibited by the 1914 Defense of the Realm Act from discussing any details of the new contagious pandemic.  This article discusses that censorship.

Neither did the influenza originate in Spain, nor was it nearly as bad there as in other countries, in terms of morbidity or mortality.  Rather, the Spanish were the first to report it, and without motive to censor it, and so that name stuck.

That 1918-1919 flu was not nearly so deadly as cholera, a bacteria-borne infectious disease that devastated New York City a number of times in the previous century.  1832 and 1849 saw mass deaths and exodus from Manhattan, as sanitation infrastructure had not yet developed to keep up with a skyrocketing population; the city’s burgeoning sewers were  reservoirs of this fecal-carried bacterial disease.   The following New York Times graph shows how deadly cholera was.  Despite the graph’s caption, the deaths were mostly due to cholera; there was little smallpox in NYC at the time. It was not for another half century that clean water would be brought from the Catskill Mountains of upstate New York, and 6,000 miles of sewers were built to carry away waste.

Boris Borovoy and I argued in December 2020 that it is always necessary to look at all-cause mortality as necessary to put a pandemic’s alleged lethality into perspective.  As the following graph shows, COVID took the death rate in New York City back to about the 1950 to 1990 level, which was strangely enough an era when people were not panicking about the typical 1 in 100 annual death rate, and that time has even been considered the heyday of US prosperity and quality of life.

 

US mortality data show that clean water, indoor plumbing, effective sewage routing all made the difference to decisively reduce infectious disease deaths to a small fraction of earlier, and that this change occurred before the disease-named vaccines came into common use.  The WHO acknowledged this pivotal role of sanitation before they removed that page.

 

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Nor was the “Spanish flu” primarily an influenza pandemic

20 million to 100 million deaths were blamed on the so-called Spanish flu, depending on who retells the history. The CDC’s official story was that it was thought to be an H1N1 strain of influenza. 

However, you may already know that in those same years, 1918-1919, the newly invented wonder drug aspirin was often generously dosed at over 1,000 mg, which people learned a bit too late to be a potentially lethal dose, an imminent risk for internal bleeding.   Reye’s syndrome, a toxicity cause by excessive aspirin, mainly affecting brain and liver, is a result of dosing aspirin at 25 mg/kg, or about 1500 mg for an adult of that era.  At peak pandemic fear, a London doctor “drenched” his patient at 1300 mg per hour for 12 hours, which was similar to widespread dosing given less frequently according to the British Ministry of Health.

There are four lines of evidence that support the role of salicylate intoxication in the 1918 flu pandemic.  Pharmacokinetics is one.  This assesses dosing with respect to clearance of a drug from the body.  In the case of zealous dosing of aspirin, a state of toxicity is quickly reached, before much of the drug is eliminated.  Of that era’s aspirin enthusiasm, Karen Starko writes, “These recommended doses (1000-1300 mg), with frequencies ranging from hourly to every 3 hours, resulting in daily doses of 8-31.2 grans, are above the maximum safe doses….”

Meningococcus vaccine experiment on US soldiers

Also, at the time there were experiments with typhoid, paratyphoid and meningococcus vaccines, beginning with the military.  The meningococcus vaccine, which had been cultured in horses, was one of a number of previously developed vaccines that were used in US troops at Fort Riley, Kansas in a military vaccination experiment in 1917-1918.  The ambitious goal had “the object of producing a serum which would protect against any pathogenic strain that might be encountered,” according to Dr.  Frederick Gates in his report of the experiment.   As dosing ramped up in the experiment, more and more severe reactions, both local and general, were reported.   Within a few months, 100 men per day were showing up at the infirmary.  Some of the first to take ill described a “bad cold.”   Experiment-stricken soldiers were reported to have flu-like symptoms, coughs, vomiting, diarrhea.  Fort Riley soon became the place where the first “Spanish flu” case was reported.  Many new vaccines were also deployed on the public during this same 1918-1919 period. 

Then as now, vaccine naming and manufacture sloppily associated the new products with known diseases, more or less. 

“Drug manufacturers aggressively promoted their stock vaccines for colds, grippe and flu.  These vaccines were of undisclosed composition.  As public anxiety and demand swelled, there were complaints of price gouging and kickbacks,” according to John M Eyler, PhD, The State of Science, Microbiology and Vaccines circa 1918, also citing S Haythorn, Studies on epidemic influenza comprising clinical and laboratory investigations…

Eyler’s paper is a revealing exposé of the hucksterism and opportunistic re-branding of old vaccines to address new fears that more brazenly characterized vaccine salesmanship in the 1918-1919 “pandemic” than today’s more sophisticated attempts and science veneer polishing, in order to market pandemics and vaccines in recent decades.

Dr. Gates, who reported on the Fort Riley experiments, in his paper on that vaccine experiment described soldiers’ symptoms after injections as follows:

“Several cases of looseness of the bowels or transient diarrhea were noted.  This symptom had not been encountered before.  Careful inquiry in individual cases often elicited the information that men who complained of the effects of vaccination were suffering from mild coryza, bronchitis, etc. at the time of injection.  Sometimes the reaction was initiated by a chill or chilly sensation, and a number of men complained of fever or feverish sensations during the following night.  Next in frequency came nausea (occasionally vomiting), dizziness, and general ‘aches and pains’ in the joints and muscles….  The reactions, therefore, occasionally simulated the onset of epidemic meningitis ….”

As World War I wound down, and the injected soldiers returned home about 10 months after the experiment, they carried “colonizing strains of bacteria, particularly pneumococci, hemolytic streptococci, H. influezae and S. aureus.

The Rockefeller Institute had prepared the horse-serum meningitis vaccine that was used on the soldiers, and then distributed the bacterial mixture to England, France Belgium, Italy and other countries.   It was promoted urgently, using the pandemic fear zeitgeist, of which we are all now too familiar once again, in order to boost sales and uptake of this highly poisonous vaccine that was both named for and contained contaminants of meningococcus.

 

Secondary bacterial pneumonia drove many COVID-19 deaths, which were found to exceed viral-caused deaths, researchers found, although the two causes were not always easy to sort out.

In 2008, Anthony Fauci’s team found this same cause of death, bacterial pneumonia, in every cadaver examined from the 1918 - 1919 “Spanish” flu pandemic, in their evaluation of autopsies of 9,000 subjects’ tissue.

Those two periods, 1918-1919 and 2020-2021 had another feature in common.  They were the only times in US history that a majority of people wore masks. 

My research team, an epidemiologist, a microbiologist and I, showed in 2020 that masks have the effect of incubating bacteria to quickly expanding colonies on the inside surface of facemasks and in the warm, moist airspace between a mask and the airways.  Welcome, bacteria; here’s your comfortable home.  Worse yet, the air hunger resulting from stifled breathing causes more labored and deeper inhalation, which drives bacterial overgrowth deeper into the lungs than an unmasked person would experience.

Reuters disagreed

Reuters criticized our reporting of this association, by using a sly strawman argument:  “Fact check: Fauci did not attribute 1918 Spanish flu deaths to bacterial pneumonia caused by masks,” and showed my tweet on the subject.

That’s correct, Reuters.  Fauci did not make that connection.  It was our research team who made that connection between masks and bacterial pneumonia deaths.  Fauci merely reported that “Spanish flu” mortality, which was at the time, and in the century since then, blamed on an H1N1-type influenza, was in fact more likely to be the result of bacterial pneumonia.  We took that finding a step farther and indicated the known widespread use of facial bacteria-incubating devices at that time.  We opined that this potential contributor to bacterial pneumonia deaths was not only the case in 1918-1919, but likely made at least some contribution to mortality that was blamed on SARS-CoV-2 infection.

I read an account that there was a strong connection between the Spanish Flu and the pit burning of infected cows by US Soldiers. Those US Soldiers then spread it far and wide when they were deployed to Europe to fight WWI. 

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5 hours ago, robosmith said:

The truth is NOT fear mongering, it is reasonable motivation to take precautions.

It is not, to routinely shut down your economy. Even a buffoon like Trump publicly recognized the risks of doing so, worrying about the suicide rates that this would create. He understood the toll of routine shut downs on the human psyche.

Look at major cities, and look at the percentage in hikes on domestic violence, drug use, homelessness, violent crime and petty theft, and tell me again, that caution without balancing out mental health in fact works better.

He handled the outbreak miserably siding more with mental health than caution, which is precisely why he was fired by voters. Biden focused more on caution, which looks better on paper, but the underlying issues due to this, are there for everyone to see. 

Am in Canada. Trudeau's hardline on caution, had the same disastrous results. He can boast about the "protecting of Canadians", but walk in any major cities and see tent cities that are there that weren't before his leadership, along with needles in parks and more areas, more drug users and homelessness that are exacerbated by similarly horrible policies.

Stop with the partisan goggles, and look at it via reality.

Both have handled the outbreak horribly. Just that one had a vaccine when they took office.

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8 hours ago, eyeball said:

I remember reading and posting in March of 2019 conclusions about the Spanish Flu that clearly showed jurisdictions that locked down harder and longer had less illness and fewer deaths. History also showed these recovered faster and were doing better economically sooner than more reckless jurisdictions.

I pointed out then how the US would suffer the worst in terms of dead people due to the nature of their issues with liberty.

That's not what I remember reading. I read how encouraging outdoor activity would be a benefit.

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There are a multitude of studies that show lockdowns had a neglible benefit - "at best, small" - namely. 0.2%. And the harmful effects far outweighed the neglible benefit.

There are 78 studies on masks, including a definitive Cochrane review of over a million people, that show the same for masks - neglible benefit with harmful effects far outweighing any benefit.  

This is why Eyeball makes statements like "Lockdowns wère great and we need to lockdown harder and longer." with zero proof. There is none. He's repeating CBC talking points from 3 years ago.

It's not me who is not following the science.

Please read all the studies and datasets I've posted on the Trickle thread. Because they're going to bring it all back. It's starting again. People like Eyeball are DANGEROUS.

We all must not comply this time. 

If you complied in the past but were silently not agreeing, you must stand this time with those of us who have been standing all along.

Do not comply.

Our lives, our children's lives depend on it.

Demand the science. Read the studies.

I cant believe the amount of disinformation in this thread.

Edited by Goddess
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4 hours ago, NYLefty said:

I guess it would be safe to say the American Experiment is no longer what it used to be. Today's American experiment is run and analyzed by our enemies. Vlad in the east currently runs such an experiment and no doubt wrings his hands in delight.

People had to contend with a lot conspiracy minded nonsense and exploitation of political divisiveness 100 years ago too. Somethings never change. 

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5 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

It is not, to routinely shut down your economy. Even a buffoon like Trump publicly recognized the risks of doing so, worrying about the suicide rates that this would create. He understood the toll of routine shut downs on the human psyche.

Look at major cities, and look at the percentage in hikes on domestic violence, drug use, homelessness, violent crime and petty theft, and tell me again, that caution without balancing out mental health in fact works better.

He handled the outbreak miserably siding more with mental health than caution, which is precisely why he was fired by voters. Biden focused more on caution, which looks better on paper, but the underlying issues due to this, are there for everyone to see. 

Am in Canada. Trudeau's hardline on caution, had the same disastrous results. He can boast about the "protecting of Canadians", but walk in any major cities and see tent cities that are there that weren't before his leadership, along with needles in parks and more areas, more drug users and homelessness that are exacerbated by similarly horrible policies.

Stop with the partisan goggles, and look at it via reality.

Both have handled the outbreak horribly. Just that one had a vaccine when they took office.

Sorry, but your debate "argument" is horrible. You don't get ANY points for "look at." LMAO

Make YOUR CASE HERE. WCM posted a stat that claimed there were 30K increased deaths from opioid addiction.

That is like 2% of the 1.12 MILLION+ excess deaths in the US during the pandemic.

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1 hour ago, Goddess said:

There are a multitude of studies that show lockdowns had a neglible benefit - "at best, small" - namely. 0.2%. And the harmful effects far outweighed the neglible benefit.

There are 78 studies on masks, including a definitive Cochrane review of over a million people, that show the same for masks - neglible benefit with harmful effects far outweighing any benefit.  

This is why Eyeball makes statements like "Lockdowns wère great and we need to lockdown harder and longer." with zero proof. There is none. He's repeating CBC talking points from 3 years ago.

It's not me who is not following the science.

Please read all the studies and datasets I've posted on the Trickle thread. Because they're going to bring it all back. It's starting again. People like Eyeball are DANGEROUS.

We all must not comply this time. 

If you complied in the past but were silently not agreeing, you must stand this time with those of us who have been standing all along.

Do not comply.

Our lives, our children's lives depend on it.

Demand the science. Read the studies.

I cant believe the amount of disinformation in this thread.

I can't believe you keep referring to some obscure "trickle thread" and "read the studies" with NO LINK.

Do you know how to post a link?

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On 8/29/2023 at 10:36 AM, robosmith said:

You seem to be confused about who derailed the conversation with "hatred, stupidity and shit." LMAO

That would be Deluginal.

Oh, I never derail, I just cut straight to the truth. You woketards wouldn't know anything about cutting straight to, or the truth, so it makes sense that you're crying, WITH floor rolling in the middle of the forum. ;)

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13 hours ago, eyeball said:

I remember reading and posting in March of 2019 conclusions about the Spanish Flu that clearly showed jurisdictions that locked down harder and longer had less illness and fewer deaths. History also showed these recovered faster and were doing better economically sooner than more reckless jurisdictions.

I pointed out then how the US would suffer the worst in terms of dead people due to the nature of their issues with liberty.

Free societies aren't interested in mandatory lockdowns; we're interested in being smart and washing our hands. Let the government sluts do their own lockdowns - we'll just keep making a living. ;)

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29 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Oh, I never derail, I just cut straight to the truth. You woketards wouldn't know anything about cutting straight to, or the truth, so it makes sense that you're crying, WITH floor rolling in the middle of the forum. ;)

Your OPINIONS are ONLY "truth" to you.

IF you care about convincing ANYONE but your fellow CULT members, POST EVIDENCE. Duh

28 minutes ago, Deluge said:

Free societies aren't interested in mandatory lockdowns; we're interested in being smart and washing our hands. Let the government sluts do their own lockdowns - we'll just keep making a living. ;)

Of course you don't care about going into work and spreading your disease as long as it doesn't KILL YOU.

Cause you got insurance to cover your 2 weeks in the ICU, right? Like my friend's brother....

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1 hour ago, robosmith said:

WCM posted a stat that claimed there were 30K increased deaths from opioid addiction.

Deaths don't tell the picture. The addiction increase, does. The added strain on existing shelters, does. People now needing help that didn't pre covid.

Surges in petty crimes. 

Death is the utmost extreme. 

I mean seeing tent cities is rather making the issue blatantly obvious, but since you need things spelled out to see the issue can do so if you like.

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Deaths don't tell the picture. The addiction increase, does. The added strain on existing shelters, does. People now needing help that didn't pre covid.

Surges in petty crimes. 

Death is the utmost extreme. 

I mean seeing tent cities is rather making the issue blatantly obvious, but since you need things spelled out to see the issue can do so if you like.

You need to prove the differences pre, during and post pandemic.

1.2 MILLION+ excess US deaths during the pandemic.

image.thumb.png.ccfa2ca0686d36a743678ff112218e1e.png

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On 8/29/2023 at 5:44 AM, Michael Hardner said:

You start out with a bonkers proposition,

It's not a 'bonkers proposition' that China released that virus intentionally:

1) It came out right after Trump started crowing about "winning a trade war against China"

2) It targets people who are elderly with co-morbidities, obesity being one of the main ones. It basically seeks out Americans. (What % of Americans are obese? What % of Chinese?)

3) The Chinese gov't was quite willing to 'deal with' excess babies, do you think that they'd worry about a vax that kills off people who are past the age of being able to contribute to society? Those people also require a great deal of full-time help from the younger generations just to stay alive, which takes them out of the work force...

It would be bonkers to say that there's a 100% chance that's what happened, but it would be equally bonkers to dismiss the possibility entirely. 

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