Army Guy Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 1 minute ago, LinkSoul60 said: We didn't cause the issue, weren't given a heads up the issue was coming, and have seen our economy trying to be dismantled by him. He caused the problem, needs help and you're of the mindset we should do the 'adult thing' is helping him out of his own mess. Certainly wouldn't get my vote, or I'm guessing that majority of Canadian's votes either. We did not cause climate change, or the Boar war, , WWI, WWII, Korea war, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan or for that matter any global crises....But we as a nation managed to step up and helped the fix the issue... You can sit here and sulk, and point fingers at who is responsible and pay the man at the pumps or we as a nation Can step up and fix a global issue that effects most of the planet...and at the same time get rid one of the most evil empires in our time...I know it is a lot for a liberal voter to mule over and as per usual we will let some one else fix the problem for us.... To be honest Not to many governments have put going to war of entering a conflict to a vote, at least not down to our level, at least none of them that I've been sent to...And i doubt very much you'd change your liberal vote if they do act... 3 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 2 minutes ago, eyeball said: What is that exactly in today's might makes right world? I support building a spaceport in NS, launching a handful of nuclear bombs into orbit, telling the world to not even think about it and...Bob's your uncle. I bet we could easily do that for a tenth of the cost of COVID. Tax the 1% to pay for it and ordinary Canadians wouldn't even notice. Sure you do you...i see it has been working out for the country 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
eyeball Posted March 19 Report Posted March 19 Just now, Army Guy said: Sure you do you...i see it has been working out for the country Where? You mean someone's actually listening and taking all this down? It's about time. 1 Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 2 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We did not cause climate change, or the Boar war, , WWI, WWII, Korea war, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan or for that matter any global crises....But we as a nation managed to step up and helped the fix the issue... You can sit here and sulk, and point fingers at who is responsible and pay the man at the pumps or we as a nation Can step up and fix a global issue that effects most of the planet...and at the same time get rid one of the most evil empires in our time...I know it is a lot for a liberal voter to mule over and as per usual we will let some one else fix the problem for us.... To be honest Not to many governments have put going to war of entering a conflict to a vote, at least not down to our level, at least none of them that I've been sent to...And i doubt very much you'd change your liberal vote if they do act... Lose the liberal shìt... it's got nothing to do with what colour jersey you got and guessing the majority of blue shirts would say the same. If it was a situation of the US being attacked then hell yes send our troops, but it's not that. It's a war of choice that could only potentially harm our military persons if we participated, and for something we had nothing to do with. I don't think we've even been asked to help anyway have we...do we have mine sweepers? Wouldn't surprise me though that if this drags out we'll be involved in some small way, if we aren't already. A large effort to help though, no way which is pretty much what every other country has said. Principles matter when the person who has been beating you down for his gains suddenly makes a plea for your help. Quote
I am Groot Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 On 3/18/2026 at 5:28 PM, BeaverFever said: LMAO it doesn’t work like that anywhere in the world. You can’t spend billions of dollars on something soldiers lives rely on harms just like you are picking up a case of beer on the way home from work. The military needs to have a doctrine a defined capability set a thorough understanding of how it will be used by Canadian Forces given the other equipment we have. Buddy, if we were operating like this at the start of WW2, we'd just be completing contracts to start ordering tanks, armored vehicles, ships, and planes in 1945 Our doctrine is substantively the same as all the other NATO countries that are buying tanks, armored vehicles, and submarines. The man portable anti-armored missiles we want would be used for the same thing the Swedes, Germans, British, Americans and for that matter, Ukrainians use them for. We don't need to spend years defining doctrines to see if they might be useful. On 3/18/2026 at 5:28 PM, BeaverFever said: Not accurate In fact muxh is the opposite. The reason that there are only 2 in the running NOW is because Carney fast-tracked the program and the others were eliminated without deep negotiation. And the final bids from each have been submitted and locked in, there’s no more negotiation happening Oh come on. Of course there is. Carny wants a car plant. On 3/18/2026 at 5:28 PM, BeaverFever said: It’s also not objectively true that the Korean sub is “better” The German/Norwegian sub is stealthier and more technologically advanced, is non-magnetic (relevant to stealth and mines), has baked-in NATO compatibility and will be used by at least 2 other NATO allies That said the Korean sub is not without its own advantages But again you oversimplify The Korean sub is based on the same tech as the German sub. More to the point, its ability to launch ballistic missiles gives it a usefulness the German subs can't have. It will be produced faster and they've committed to putting maintenance docks on our east and west coasts and training the people in them. It's also in the water while the German sub is on blueprints. Quote "A civilization is not destroyed by wicked men; it is destroyed by weak men who cannot defend what is good.” — G. K. Chesterton
Army Guy Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 55 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said: Lose the liberal shìt... it's got nothing to do with what colour jersey you got and guessing the majority of blue shirts would say the same. If it was a situation of the US being attacked then hell yes send our troops, but it's not that. It's a war of choice that could only potentially harm our military persons if we participated, and for something we had nothing to do with. I don't think we've even been asked to help anyway have we...do we have mine sweepers? Wouldn't surprise me though that if this drags out we'll be involved in some small way, if we aren't already. A large effort to help though, no way which is pretty much what every other country has said. Principles matter when the person who has been beating you down for his gains suddenly makes a plea for your help. Why, liberals have sent our nations soldiers into battle more than any other party, think about that , they are also the party that has slashed military funding the most....and never did they have an issue with sending troops into harms way....Not many members of the military support liberal's my guess would be more than 90% are conservatives...for the reason they are not very supportive of our military.... Every war is a war of choice....and we have been in most of them, even when the liberals said they would not support it....we had troops in combat....if it meant a photo op they were send in the troops...So it has a lot to do with the liberals...I'll say this again we had nothing to do with starting any of the conflicts we have been involved with, your beef is that this is a trump conflict....and everything trump is bad...well the US is our closet allied...Trump does not play a card here...the closing of the straight is a global crises, and it is effecting more than just the price at the pumps it is effecting global trade... We have been asked, Trump has asked every NATO nation to step up....and not very many are stepping up...And if the US jumps out of NATO , how much do you think we will be paying for defense then, it will cost us a lot more than Carney is willing to pay...we do have mine sweepers, and frigates to escort ships...we also have F-18's to patrol from the air.... If your not surprised why even discuss it, it will happen but not before it bites us in the A$$, we could have ben one of the first to step up....with a small contribution....and it might have paid off in huge awards at the future CUSMA talks...Canada could not contribute in any real large way....Iranian forces are more modern than ours....It is the same thing over the last 2 conflicts we were involved with...with the exception of the Afghanis, hard not to have a better equipped force than a bunch of goat headers...this is not about principles , its about the condition of our forces....not that any of that matters with the liberals... He beat us down....you mean he verbally assaulted you...at best....shit i got worse downtown in Toronto after a leaf's game...are you really that soft...do you think Canada was the only nation to be berated....even your man Carney said we got the best deal globally....what is the problem....you should be happy Trump got Carney elected...you can't have it both ways.... 1 hour ago, eyeball said: Where? You mean someone's actually listening and taking all this down? It's about time. The men in black have been watching you and the rest of BC for a long time now...did you stare into the pen again.... 1 Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 6 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Why, liberals have sent our nations soldiers into battle more than any other party, think about that , they are also the party that has slashed military funding the most....and never did they have an issue with sending troops into harms way....Not many members of the military support liberal's my guess would be more than 90% are conservatives...for the reason they are not very supportive of our military.... Every war is a war of choice....and we have been in most of them, even when the liberals said they would not support it....we had troops in combat....if it meant a photo op they were send in the troops...So it has a lot to do with the liberals...I'll say this again we had nothing to do with starting any of the conflicts we have been involved with, your beef is that this is a trump conflict....and everything trump is bad...well the US is our closet allied...Trump does not play a card here...the closing of the straight is a global crises, and it is effecting more than just the price at the pumps it is effecting global trade... We have been asked, Trump has asked every NATO nation to step up....and not very many are stepping up...And if the US jumps out of NATO , how much do you think we will be paying for defense then, it will cost us a lot more than Carney is willing to pay...we do have mine sweepers, and frigates to escort ships...we also have F-18's to patrol from the air.... If your not surprised why even discuss it, it will happen but not before it bites us in the A$$, we could have ben one of the first to step up....with a small contribution....and it might have paid off in huge awards at the future CUSMA talks...Canada could not contribute in any real large way....Iranian forces are more modern than ours....It is the same thing over the last 2 conflicts we were involved with...with the exception of the Afghanis, hard not to have a better equipped force than a bunch of goat headers...this is not about principles , its about the condition of our forces....not that any of that matters with the liberals... He beat us down....you mean he verbally assaulted you...at best....shit i got worse downtown in Toronto after a leaf's game...are you really that soft...do you think Canada was the only nation to be berated....even your man Carney said we got the best deal globally....what is the problem....you should be happy Trump got Carney elected...you can't have it both ways.... Whatever, don't know about the politics thing... There would be overwhelming support from Canadian's to not support it. Unless something way different happens there's no way we're sending our military. We're in the middle east already and on a US base so you'd have to assume in one way or another we're probably already involved...no. Trump has royally screwed up here but despite his usual rants and raves there has been no formal request of Nato or Canada to help. The guy is dancing right now and railing on anyone and everything to find a way out. That's not our problem. The economic side will figure itself out as this plays along. If it's a crisis in Asia China has the relationships and means and to end it tomorrow. Let them do it. You're making an assumption that goodwill on our part will loosen him up right. Not going to happen... we removed DST and counter-tariffs to no avail. The guy is a bully because he can be and he isn't going to change. Win/win doesn't work with him. Lose/win doesn't work for us. No, he beats us down with crazy high tariffs on our steel, auto, lumber industries that has seen slow downs and job losses. Don't you read? I think him calling us 51st state and his other digs is classless but so what. I have much bigger problem with what he's done to our industries and peoples jobs. I get it though, look out for yourself, but there's a right way to do things and he's oblivious to that. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to assume there is a good reason why we don't have an agreement with him yet, for that's worth. Take off your politics hat sometimes and looking at things as they are. Quote
User Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 1 hour ago, LinkSoul60 said: Trump has royally screwed up here but despite his usual rants and raves there has been no formal request of Nato or Canada to help. The guy is dancing right now and railing on anyone and everything to find a way out. That's not our problem. The economic side will figure itself out as this plays along. If it's a crisis in Asia China has the relationships and means and to end it tomorrow. Let them do it. So... what was this royal screwup if it is not your problem and the economic side will figure itself out as this plays along? You are both trying to say this is some epic problem but then also that it is not a problem. Quote
bush_cheney2004 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 (edited) 5 hours ago, Army Guy said: We did not cause climate change, or the Boar war, , WWI, WWII, Korea war, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan or for that matter any global crises....But we as a nation managed to step up and helped the fix the issue... You can sit here and sulk, and point fingers at who is responsible and pay the man at the pumps or we as a nation Can step up and fix a global issue that effects most of the planet...and at the same time get rid one of the most evil empires in our time...I know it is a lot for a liberal voter to mule over and as per usual we will let some one else fix the problem for us.... It wasn't that long ago when such a decision by a Liberal government was far easier to make...for a "war of choice" with no imminent threat to Canada or UN approval: Quote In 1999, U.S. President Bill Clinton and Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien aligned closely within NATO to launch air strikes against Yugoslavia (Operation Allied Force) to end the Kosovo crisis. Canada was a strong proponent of intervention, and Chrétien maintained support for the campaign despite acknowledging the difficulty of the decision and potential for casualties. Key Aspects of the Kosovo/Canada/Clinton/NATO Engagement (1998-1999): NATO Intervention: President Clinton announced in March 1999 that the U.S. would join NATO allies in air strikes against Serbian forces due to their brutal actions in Kosovo. Canada’s Role: Canada was a "vigorous proponent" of NATO involvement, with Prime Minister Chrétien believing Serbian leader Slobodan Milošević would only respond to force. Canada contributed six CF-18 jets, which grew to 18, representing 10% of the missions. Chrétien and Clinton: Chrétien stood with Clinton, noting that if NATO was in agreement, Canada would not be the only country opposing ground forces or continued action. Chrétien later called on the international community to demand Milošević's resignation. Objectives: The primary goals were to stop the humanitarian disaster, force the withdrawal of Serbian forces, and establish a NATO-led peacekeeping force. Outcome: Following 79 days of bombing, Yugoslav forces withdrew, allowing for the deployment of a peacekeeping force (KFOR) to manage the crisis, with Canada contributing to the ongoing mission. Edited March 20 by bush_cheney2004 1 Quote Economics trumps Virtue.
Venandi Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 (edited) 7 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: Trump has royally screwed up here... I hear a lot of rhetoric here that reminds me of my mother's advice for deterring bullies... it was to "ignore them and they'll go away." That never worked for me, and I was pretty damn patient with the process. Not only did they stay, they got incrementally bolder and more vicious as time went by.... I corrected that in grade 11 (pretty dramatically) and to this day regret not having done it sooner. There was a valuable lesson in it. I only say that to illustrate the fact that I have long considered a showdown with Iran to be inevitable (meaning absolutely unavoidable) and that it would (and needed) to occur somewhere between 60 and 70% enrichment. The minute you hit 65-70% we stop talking and you fill the reticle. In addition, I would always have cautioned that they would pull out all the stops to shut down the strait in order to inflict maximum oil supply line pain... ramping up domestic production was always a key precursor to that and it's noteworthy (IMO) that 2025 was a record year for domestic production in the US. That wasn't an accident and the US most definitely didn't forget about the strait. Please reread the underlined paragraph above and tell me why (and how) you think this conflict could have been avoided... in other words, how would you have gotten them to abandon their nuclear ambitions and stop exporting terrorism? As an aside, I think Canada should have been asked to make (at least) a symbolic contribution to the initial wave... maybe in the form of AAR and a 6 pack. It's a different topic and I don't want to detract from the question above, but it grieves me that it didn't happen; instead, we were written off the board as irrelevant. Edited March 20 by Venandi 1 Quote
John Stone Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 (edited) 12 hours ago, Army Guy said: People have been bragging about our Halifax frigates for decades now...they went to the gulf war , even had air defense Man pads put onboard , by some air defenders , we also have mine sweepers...CF-18 to fly CAP, it's funny when we talk about military capabilities and what they are capable of.... Here is a chance to prove we either have a military force capable of doing it's job....or we don't and should be embarrassed of the state of our current military limitations. And if we are not willing to deploy them because of the lack of equipment then we meaning all of us, should step up and demand action..... not in 2030, 2035 but today....or we start using the highway of hero's again because we as a nation are to cheap to protect our young men and women... which as been the plan for decades now... Amusing to think the 2nd largest country on the planet has traditionally had governments that are cavalier concerning defense ....... tactically ............. or strategically in terms of sovereignty. Well, the chickens are coming home to roost........... The CPF have point defense weapons - mainly surface to air and anti-ship (Harpoon). The chain-gun (close in weapon system) is largely autonomous and deigned for destroying fast moving air contacts (engage at 1k yards) on an intercept course.. stream attacks would defeat it. ...........as it would the illumination radars used for designating targets for the surface to air (AIM). Most detection radars today are of the phased-array design ................. it has been said that in 10 years with the commissioning of the new(?) Surface Combat Ships, a similar detection system will (might) be employed. In close quarters the CPF escort itself could be used to shield the tanker-target; akin to what the Brits did in Falklands to protect their capital ships. Canada has out-dated mine sweeping capability - those ships are primarily Reserve vessels............. ignorant domestic fodder. Edited March 20 by John Stone Quote
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 9 hours ago, User said: So... what was this royal screwup if it is not your problem and the economic side will figure itself out as this plays along? You are both trying to say this is some epic problem but then also that it is not a problem. Correct. We all could see epic problems if this drags on and oil spikes higher than it is today. Thoughts this morning that the US could be sending ground troops there. Not good for anyone... financially or otherwise. You can safely assume the fall out and how Iran has and is retaliating wasn't planned for so yes, this can be looked at as a screw up because of it's global affect. The market and supply chains will do what they're going to do as this plays out. The quicker it ends the better it is for everyone. The longer it goes there it's going to be felt by everyone, for a long time. Quote
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 4 hours ago, Venandi said: I hear a lot of rhetoric here that reminds me of my mother's advice for deterring bullies... it was to "ignore them and they'll go away." That never worked for me, and I was pretty damn patient with the process. Not only did they stay, they got incrementally bolder and more vicious as time went by.... I corrected that in grade 11 (pretty dramatically) and to this day regret not having done it sooner. There was a valuable lesson in it. I only say that to illustrate the fact that I have long considered a showdown with Iran to be inevitable (meaning absolutely unavoidable) and that it would (and needed) to occur somewhere between 60 and 70% enrichment. The minute you hit 65-70% we stop talking and you fill the reticle. In addition, I would always have cautioned that they would pull out all the stops to shut down the strait in order to inflict maximum oil supply line pain... ramping up domestic production was always a key precursor to that and it's noteworthy (IMO) that 2025 was a record year for domestic production in the US. That wasn't an accident and the US most definitely didn't forget about the strait. Please reread the underlined paragraph above and tell me why (and how) you think this conflict could have been avoided... in other words, how would you have gotten them to abandon their nuclear ambitions and stop exporting terrorism? As an aside, I think Canada should have been asked to make (at least) a symbolic contribution to the initial wave... maybe in the form of AAR and a 6 pack. It's a different topic and I don't want to detract from the question above, but it grieves me that it didn't happen; instead, we were written off the board as irrelevant. Similarly I didn't had a problem standing up to a bully in my youth, nor would I today, although I'm too old for that shìt. That's not the crux of what I said though.... Not participating isn't about standing up to anyone, it's for the simple reason this isn't an alliance led attack and Canada wasn't part of it, nor did we know it was coming. My rhetoric of the getting beat down economically and saying no thanks to an ask for help is just that, rhetoric. Moot point until or if we're ever asked to participate, but I find it hard to believe there would be anywhere near majority consensus from Canadian's to support this. I don't think there is any question at all what Iran was/is. It's been that way for a half a century but as we've heard there was no imminent threat. It was only a month ago though that the world was told their nuclear capabilities were 'totally and completely obliterated'. I find it real hard to believe the level of threat could change from being obliterated a month ago to an imminent threat today. There is obviously disagreement within the US intelligence community about that as well with the director resigning. I'm not sure we even know the objective is or what success is do we... is it regime change, nuclear capabilities, long range missiles...? To get involved in something with no clear objectives that potentially harms our soldiers makes no sense at all. The closing of the strait is causing havoc across the globe now and will get a lot worse the longer this goes on. We're not the saviours of the world though and the countries that are most affected like the Asian countries should logically be the first ones sending mine sweepers or other assets there if in fact the US needs help, which is unclear with that changing with each his comments. I agree with your aside though... Regardless of Trump we're brothers with the US and part of an alliance with them and other like-minded countries. If there was a request before this began to assist in a supporting role I think we would have looked at it closely and most likely we would have agreed to support the effort. I'd like to think Nato as a whole would have supported it as well. That said, I still think that in some way we are in fact involved given we have troops on a US base in the ME. Quote
eyeball Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 6 hours ago, Venandi said: Please reread the underlined paragraph above and tell me why (and how) you think this conflict could have been avoided... I think it could have been avoided if Eisenhower had been more like Truman and likewise told Churchill to go pizz up a rope. Quote I said now watch what you say they'll be calling you a radical, a liberal, oh fanatical criminal
Army Guy Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 16 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: Whatever, don't know about the politics thing... There would be overwhelming support from Canadian's to not support it. Unless something way different happens there's no way we're sending our military. We're in the middle east already and on a US base so you'd have to assume in one way or another we're probably already involved...no. Trump has royally screwed up here but despite his usual rants and raves there has been no formal request of Nato or Canada to help. The guy is dancing right now and railing on anyone and everything to find a way out. That's not our problem. The economic side will figure itself out as this plays along. If it's a crisis in Asia China has the relationships and means and to end it tomorrow. Let them do it. You're making an assumption that goodwill on our part will loosen him up right. Not going to happen... we removed DST and counter-tariffs to no avail. The guy is a bully because he can be and he isn't going to change. Win/win doesn't work with him. Lose/win doesn't work for us. No, he beats us down with crazy high tariffs on our steel, auto, lumber industries that has seen slow downs and job losses. Don't you read? I think him calling us 51st state and his other digs is classless but so what. I have much bigger problem with what he's done to our industries and peoples jobs. I get it though, look out for yourself, but there's a right way to do things and he's oblivious to that. It doesn't take a lot of thinking to assume there is a good reason why we don't have an agreement with him yet, for that's worth. Take off your politics hat sometimes and looking at things as they are. Well i guess your man Carney has already agreed to assist militarily to open up the straight...My question is how does that change your opinion about the conflict or Carney ? will he start bleeding his loyal fans...Yes we are in the middle east but not involved in the conflict Canadians there are on much different mission which happens to be located where the Americans have a huge presence. How has he screwed up ? and there has been a request from trump asking for assistance from NATO...To open the straight, not to get involved in the air campaign....It is our problem...One shutting off the straight is against maritime law and inter national law plus there are many UN agreements on this very topic....if no one is going to step up and uphold those laws might as well withdrawal from all those conventions... Yes that is all it is assumptions, there is no guarantees in life, as one has nothing to do with the other, But it would send a clear message that we are their closets allied and we will always have their backs....i know the left have a problem with words like honor, loyalty, integrity, and many more. The world today is bat sh!t crazy and we need all the allied we can get.... despite what Carneys message is.. We also have tariffs in place lots of them i already posted a list of them....I get it the left is very sensitive when it comes to words....but then again that's all they were, was just words ....It's not like Canadians have not said things in the past about Americans...or invaded the white house for the second time...Words.... Instead of blaming trump for looking after the US, your sore because he is not fixing Canada, he has not given you something, sorry sir that blame falls on our government and their lack of action, yes sir that falls on the past liberal government and if you voted for that government you can point at yourself, welcome to Canada ....Thank Justin for all of it... and Carney is keeping a lot of Justin policies and programs so pretty soon we can point to him as well... We don't have an agreement because there is no compromising to be had...we are stuck with old cartels that have the government held over a hole and won't let go....that and we still have a lot of other tariffs on US goods, that could be taken off.... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Army Guy Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 8 hours ago, John Stone said: Amusing to think the 2nd largest country on the planet has traditionally had governments that are cavalier concerning defense ....... tactically ............. or strategically in terms of sovereignty. Well, the chickens are coming home to roost........... The CPF have point defense weapons - mainly surface to air and anti-ship (Harpoon). The chain-gun (close in weapon system) is largely autonomous and deigned for destroying fast moving air contacts (engage at 1k yards) on an intercept course.. stream attacks would defeat it. ...........as it would the illumination radars used for designating targets for the surface to air (AIM). Most detection radars today are of the phased-array design ................. it has been said that in 10 years with the commissioning of the new(?) Surface Combat Ships, a similar detection system will (might) be employed. In close quarters the CPF escort itself could be used to shield the tanker-target; akin to what the Brits did in Falklands to protect their capital ships. Canada has out-dated mine sweeping capability - those ships are primarily Reserve vessels............. ignorant domestic fodder. It is not amusing to those that serve or have served, being told to make do with a ball of twine and some gun tape, and while our members perform miracles with what they do have, Canadians have know of these facts for decades and refuse to stand up of these same people that guard our nation day and night 365 days a year...And because the people have not stood up , our government has developed that same Cavalier attitude....The only times Canadians get behind our military members and demands action....is when enough have past through the highway of hero's.... So ya not amusing, but rather sad...or disgusting from my point of view... Our government gives the word and those ships will be filled with volunteers, not because they are want to go to war, but because the men and women on the right and left of them have stuck up there hands...to serve our country, to test their training, to make sure their comrades come back to their families...because they understand honor, loyalty, integrity, duty...and a sh!t ton more....something a lot of Canadians do not have... The Halifax Frigate is a war ship designed for high intensity warfare....their crew have been trained to a razors edge, and they can handle any mission thrown at them including open up the straight...It has Ship to shore missiles, anti air defense missiles, 57 mm main gun, torps , and x4 .50 cal HMG....and i'm sure the navy will try to put on some other weapons before going... as for the mine sweepers, once again they have trained for this job for years, finding mines and patrolling is what they do.... and if asked to go the ship will be ready and full of sailors....it is who they are....And they know the risks, and if they become fodder as you say...that's on the Canadian people...and the liberal government... Armament 2 × quad Mk 141 canisters for 8 × RGM-84 Harpoon block II missiles AShM/LAM 2 × 8-cell Mk 48 vertical launch system (VLS) firing 16 × RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow block II SAM/SSM 1 × Bofors 57 mm (2.2 in) Mk 3 gun 1 × Phalanx CIWS (Mk 15 Mod 21 (Block 1B)) 4 × 12.7 mm (0.50 in) M2HQ Mini Typhoon remote weapon stations 2 × twin 324 mm (12.8 in) Mk 32 torpedo tubes for 24 × Honeywell Mk 46 Mod 5 torpedoes Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 11 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Well i guess your man Carney has already agreed to assist militarily to open up the straight...My question is how does that change your opinion about the conflict or Carney ? will he start bleeding his loyal fans...Yes we are in the middle east but not involved in the conflict Canadians there are on much different mission which happens to be located where the Americans have a huge presence. Haven't seen that. Good because I'm getting waxed in the market again like everyone else. If you paid attention to what I've said you would have heard 'Wouldn't surprise me though that if this drags out we'll be involved in some small way, if we aren't already'. I don't know what happened today but will read soon enough. Better question though... I'm sure you're happy though and Carney can count on your vote next time around? 13 minutes ago, Army Guy said: How has he screwed up ? and there has been a request from trump asking for assistance from NATO...To open the straight, not to get involved in the air campaign....It is our problem...One shutting off the straight is against maritime law and inter national law plus there are many UN agreements on this very topic....if no one is going to step up and uphold those laws might as well withdrawal from all those conventions... Is how he screwed up even a question??? WTF do you see going on right now and who the hell do you think started it. 16 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Yes that is all it is assumptions, there is no guarantees in life, as one has nothing to do with the other, But it would send a clear message that we are their closets allied and we will always have their backs....i know the left have a problem with words like honor, loyalty, integrity, and many more. The world today is bat sh!t crazy and we need all the allied we can get.... despite what Carneys message is.. Yes, being an ally was never a question. Going into a war for all the reason I said doesn't make sense. Again, not sue what happened today but it's not going to mean anything for goodwill even if we do assist. He doesn't like that. 17 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We also have tariffs in place lots of them i already posted a list of them....I get it the left is very sensitive when it comes to words....but then again that's all they were, was just words ....It's not like Canadians have not said things in the past about Americans...or invaded the white house for the second time...Words.... You conveniently omit the part of Canadian's losing their jobs because of those sectoral tariffs. I'll say it again... his smack talk is classless but who cares, it's only words. People losing their jobs are the problem I have. Sorry but wasn't around the last time we invaded their WH so can't comment.... 22 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Instead of blaming trump for looking after the US, your sore because he is not fixing Canada, he has not given you something, sorry sir that blame falls on our government and their lack of action, yes sir that falls on the past liberal government and if you voted for that government you can point at yourself, welcome to Canada ....Thank Justin for all of it... and Carney is keeping a lot of Justin policies and programs so pretty soon we can point to him as well... Again, if you understood what you read I said Trump is doing what he should do for his country, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. His way was and is wrong. Think you'll ever get over Justin? 25 minutes ago, Army Guy said: We don't have an agreement because there is no compromising to be had...we are stuck with old cartels that have the government held over a hole and won't let go....that and we still have a lot of other tariffs on US goods, that could be taken off.... We don't have an agreement because what's on the table doesn't work for us. I and you sure as hell don't know the entire conversations but that makes sense.... don't you think? With the exception of the last paragraph every other had a rant about left, liberals, Carney or Trudeau. Holy shìt.... you can't even think straight. Fùckers are watching you too so be careful.... Quote
Army Guy Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 Just now, LinkSoul60 said: Haven't seen that. Good because I'm getting waxed in the market again like everyone else. If you paid attention to what I've said you would have heard 'Wouldn't surprise me though that if this drags out we'll be involved in some small way, if we aren't already'. I don't know what happened today but will read soon enough. Better question though... I'm sure you're happy though and Carney can count on your vote next time around? Is how he screwed up even a question??? WTF do you see going on right now and who the hell do you think started it. Yes, being an ally was never a question. Going into a war for all the reason I said doesn't make sense. Again, not sue what happened today but it's not going to mean anything for goodwill even if we do assist. He doesn't like that. You conveniently omit the part of Canadian's losing their jobs because of those sectoral tariffs. I'll say it again... his smack talk is classless but who cares, it's only words. People losing their jobs are the problem I have. Sorry but wasn't around the last time we invaded their WH so can't comment.... Again, if you understood what you read I said Trump is doing what he should do for his country, but there is a right and wrong way to do things. His way was and is wrong. Think you'll ever get over Justin? We don't have an agreement because what's on the table doesn't work for us. I and you sure as hell don't know the entire conversations but that makes sense.... don't you think? With the exception of the last paragraph every other had a rant about left, liberals, Carney or Trudeau. Holy shìt.... you can't even think straight. Fùckers are watching you too so be careful.... Lets take a look at the last couple of weeks, Canadians were not sure what the official response was, Carney changed it 3 or 4 times...Carney has a long way to go before he gets my vote, but anything is possible... Yes how did he screw up ? I don't care why it started, Iran started this back in the late 80's...and has been looking to be shot in the face ever since....i have no issue with paying higher gas prices if it means getting rid of the world largest sponsor of terrorism... Nobody is asking anyone to go to war, what is being asked is to open up the straight and ensure global trade is safe for everyone... YA sure, and liberal policies to date had nothing to do with that....this is not the first time we have dealt with trump this is trump 2.0....and back in trump 1.0 we had said we should diversify, said the same thing the last times China put on crippling tariffs, we should diversify, and today what are we saying we should diversify.....see a trend here...Canada talks a good game but really sucks at taking action... Canada will never get over Justin, the damage is way to great... I think if their was a deal to be had it would have been made already, Mexico is way ahead in their talks....lets remember you voted for a guy that said he could get things done...so far all he has done is fly the crap out of his PM aircraft.. Well the left has given the Canadians a lot of things to be p!ssed off about. Take a good look at how bad the country is right now, but you can't your nose blind to the whole deal, in your world everything is running good, liquor store is open, hockey is still on, and weed is legal..... Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
User Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 6 hours ago, LinkSoul60 said: Correct. We all could see epic problems if this drags on and oil spikes higher than it is today. Thoughts this morning that the US could be sending ground troops there. Not good for anyone... financially or otherwise. You can safely assume the fall out and how Iran has and is retaliating wasn't planned for so yes, this can be looked at as a screw up because of it's global affect. The market and supply chains will do what they're going to do as this plays out. The quicker it ends the better it is for everyone. The longer it goes there it's going to be felt by everyone, for a long time. So... you still haven't defined what the royal screwup was. Just parroting the talking point that there was no plan doesn't explain anything. As I have pointed out to others, you folks are conflating having a plan with being able to perfectly stop something from happening. There is no way to stop Iran from being able to threaten the Strait... other than taking out their military infrastructure that they use to threaten it. Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 20 Author Report Posted March 20 On 3/19/2026 at 11:08 AM, John Stone said: .............. believe these are the same weapons introduced into the USAF decades ago. AIM-9x block 2: USAF has had since about 2011 AIM-120D3 is pretty new even to USAF, only in service since early 2024 although earlier AIM120Ds have been around since about 2015 On 3/19/2026 at 1:38 PM, User said: Has Canada met their NATO spending obligations in 2023, 2024, or 2025? Nope not even close and they weren’t even pretending to, back then they only promised to reach 2% sometime in the 2030s. Hence no reason for a conspiracy to claim tree unrelated planting as defence spending. Quote
User Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 3 minutes ago, BeaverFever said: Nope not even close and they weren’t even pretending to, back then they only promised to reach 2% sometime in the 2030s. Hence no reason for a conspiracy to claim tree unrelated planting as defence spending. No conspiracy, just the facts. Why you feel so compelled to reject them and lie about them is beyond me. Quote
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 58 minutes ago, Army Guy said: Lets take a look at the last couple of weeks, Canadians were not sure what the official response was, Carney changed it 3 or 4 times...Carney has a long way to go before he gets my vote, but anything is possible... Yes how did he screw up ? I don't care why it started, Iran started this back in the late 80's...and has been looking to be shot in the face ever since....i have no issue with paying higher gas prices if it means getting rid of the world largest sponsor of terrorism... Nobody is asking anyone to go to war, what is being asked is to open up the straight and ensure global trade is safe for everyone... YA sure, and liberal policies to date had nothing to do with that....this is not the first time we have dealt with trump this is trump 2.0....and back in trump 1.0 we had said we should diversify, said the same thing the last times China put on crippling tariffs, we should diversify, and today what are we saying we should diversify.....see a trend here...Canada talks a good game but really sucks at taking action... Canada will never get over Justin, the damage is way to great... I think if their was a deal to be had it would have been made already, Mexico is way ahead in their talks....lets remember you voted for a guy that said he could get things done...so far all he has done is fly the crap out of his PM aircraft.. Well the left has given the Canadians a lot of things to be p!ssed off about. Take a good look at how bad the country is right now, but you can't your nose blind to the whole deal, in your world everything is running good, liquor store is open, hockey is still on, and weed is legal..... See, that's easy. I bet you're voting liberal next time around. He screwed up by not considering Iran's actions and their impact to the global economy. He's a piece of work though... Said yesterday that he actually thought gas prices would be higher so the fact. they're not means he's winning. The good thing for him is that fools everywhere will buy that. The strait is in a war zone. If missiles were to hit a Canadian ship there would be a loss of life and justifiable uproar asking... exactly why did we do this? We should have done a lot of things, just like your guy Harper should have done a lot of things when he was the PM too. Everyone is an expert with hindsight. Talk to me about what we do to move forward. I see little value in crying every day about the past. It's not going to change the past, and affects my concentration when over the golf ball. He won't be remembered fondly by the masses.... Me included, but I don't spend my waking moments thinking about him. So what if Mexico is supposedly 'ahead'... whatever that means. You're under the opinion we should sign a deal that's bad for us. Most with an ounce of common sense wouldn't agree with that. Correct, I voted for the most qualified candidate we had for PM. And yes, getting on a plane and meeting with foreign governments and investors is generally what needs to happen if you're trying to expand your foreign trade relationships. Wild guess but thinking everything you've got the past 11 years is because liberals have been the only governing party we've had. Imagine if the conservatives were actually able to put forth better candidates than Scheer, O'Toole or Poilievre and what might have been... Oh well. I've never said the world is 'running good'. As I said above though, I don't spend my waking moments complaining about the past. Didn't work in sports, didn't work in business, and sure doesn't work in day to day life. Quote
LinkSoul60 Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 57 minutes ago, User said: So... you still haven't defined what the royal screwup was. Just parroting the talking point that there was no plan doesn't explain anything. As I have pointed out to others, you folks are conflating having a plan with being able to perfectly stop something from happening. There is no way to stop Iran from being able to threaten the Strait... other than taking out their military infrastructure that they use to threaten it. So, you obviously can't comprehend what I've said. What was the plan, or is the plan? Your defence of him is admirable. Doesn't change the facts of what's happened and where we're at though. Quote
BeaverFever Posted March 20 Author Report Posted March 20 23 hours ago, CdnFox said: So rather than hire somebody who had any military experience or any procurement experience he went with a banker who was a buddy And you have absolutely no problem with this at all? That was the correct: Your mind? I think here is where we're going to find out if you're nothing more than a partisan hack or not No I have no problem with it at all because once again I know what I am talking about and Once again you show how little you know. Guzmans job isn’t to personally pick the contract winners. His job is to manage the agency that manages procurement projects. He has substantial relevant experience managing Canada’s largest financial institutions at the highest levels, that includes the necessary level of knowledge for procurement and. financial management that a CEO needs. As a senior executive in investment he would have been involved in reviewing and approving countless procurement projects whenever a major purchase was made. That’s all he needs. Miilitary experience is not required for this role at all and not relevant. The CEO is managing the organization not doing the grunt work in the trenches. And it is called the Defence Investment Agency and he has a extensive investment experience . Executive management is a skill and experience unto itself, that involves a wide range of knowledge of all a company’s functions but not requiring deep expertise in each of them. You strike me as someone who has never had a professional white collar career so this is probably all news to you Here’s another way to explain it: Donald Trump probably doesn’t know how to weld steel beams to run his construction company. His job is to manage the people who manage the people who manage the people that need to know those things. But Trump probably knows enough about steel beams to do his job, right? Its also hilarious toe that you would even choose this point to argue given Conservative and republican habits of appointing unqualified hacks with ZERO relevant experience, and no respectable private sector career or management like Guzman. Poilievre has never had a real job in his life and you think he’s the most qualified leader on earth. Trump’s administration is full of the most unqualified people imaginable and you said you defended that saying that didn’t matter. 23 hours ago, CdnFox said: Categorically true you liar. Nope you are the liar 23 hours ago, CdnFox said: Absolutely true and not false at all. Nope 23 hours ago, CdnFox said: That is almost literally how it works. Trade began increasing with America like a week after we signed the free trade agreement originally. Most of the time when we've signed other trade agreements businesses are lining up to take advantage. Within a month there should be a noticeable increase. So why are we decreasing? You're such a twat you didn't even look at the history of this before making a dumbass statement that you just hoped was true. Read a bit of history I'm curious, obviously you were wrong to say what you said and obviously it's not true but just out of curiosity how many months did you think it would take before I trade agreement would be acted upon by companies looking to make money? How many years did you think it would take before that would kick in? The worst thing about you compared to the other right wing nuts is your propensity to just make up complete. BS. The others usually stick to repeating propaganda and fake news they get off the internet but you’re pretty unique in the bullshit category. You think a company that has never done business in Japan reads that there’s a nee trade deal with Japan so just ships off a bunch of products with not saying “whoever finds this shipping container please send me x dollars to me at the following address”. It ridiculous. Companies wanting to expand to new markets have to research that market, understand what the demand there is, who their competitors will be, how much to charge, how much to invest, what the taxes and laws are and then they have to find customers and sign contracts with them. That takes months, even years Hell in my own career just contracting with suppliers here in Canada can take months amd that’s just for routine in-budget department expenses not borrowing billions of dollars to pivot the entire enterprise And like I already explained to you non-US trade has INCREASED and US trade has decreased, all because of Trump’s tariffs I will say this, it’s a recurring theme here with you and the other conservatives like @I am Groot that you massively underestimate the analysis and planning and due diligence that is involved in major investments. You all talk like you think the way to buy tanks is you flip through a few tank brochures, and the options can all easily and objectively and indisputably be ranked from “best” to “worst”, and that once you make your pick you can just pop by the local tank dealership where they’re all sitting on the lot waiting for you to take home same day. Or for a business that if you get the urge to sell products to a foreign country you just call someone up in that country have a quick chat and then sell them something same day. Nothing can be further from the truth. 23 hours ago, CdnFox said: How many did we buy? The contract for these missiles was actually signed back in something like 2017 or 2018. Munitions are refillable orders so the contract you sign for these isn’t to buy x number of missiles or x number bullets. You go through procurement the first time and contract for them to be the supplier, after that you can just order refills of whatever quantity whenever you deem fit without any new procurement or process or public tender and it’s not public record. 1 Quote
User Posted March 20 Report Posted March 20 28 minutes ago, LinkSoul60 said: So, you obviously can't comprehend what I've said. What was the plan, or is the plan? Your defence of him is admirable. Doesn't change the facts of what's happened and where we're at though. You are not answering my question. You just assert talking points with no substantive thoughts or reasoning. What facts for what has happened and where we are at? Keep pretending there is no plan all you want... https://www.war.gov/News/News-Stories/Article/Article/4438252/hegseth-draws-distinction-between-epic-fury-previous-conflicts/ Quote
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