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Poilevre lobs nuclear bomb across the house of commons


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https://twitter.com/therealkeean/status/1663993851114328064?s=46&t=cRwDAwEF-1fKEqCRPfhcJw

As many will remember - Justin trudeau was accused of having had to leave his acting job due to 'inappropriate' relations with a student.  Here PP shows his skill at the art of insinuation again :)  

This guy has the skills to win the next election.

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3 hours ago, Nationalist said:

Poor li'l Pixie-Dust. Without a complaint opposition, he's just lost.

Oh well...

Well the thing that's got to bug him is every time he tries to be 'clever' he winds up looking like an !diot.

PP's ability to think on his feet is extremely strong.  Both Scheer and O'toole had a problem with that and both got caught by questions during the campaign that they had no answer for (and should have known were coming) and it cratered them. Scheer got clobbered on the abortion question he had no answer for and erin on the gun question (and 'where's kenney')

I suspect that things will go very differently with Pierre.

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I have no doubt that Mr. Poilievre will win the next election. He is very good with the one liner. I wonder if he has the skill to get himself out of the corners he has painted himself into with some of his more bizarre ideas. He has been very good at describing what he doesn't like, but getting him to even hint at what his solutions are, is seemingly impossible. Last winter, I asked a simple question about a couple of files he will need to deal with when he forms a government. When I received no response, I followed up, with no results so far. I did get a note saying they would respond soon. Please send money. That was in April. Recently I received a request to renew my membership...and please send money. I replied that I would, after I get a reply to my emails from last winter. I did get a response of sorts. Please send money.

I have to hope he will follow normal practice of consulting with the senior public service and his ministry will govern accordingly, but that will be a difficult climb down from his pre-election rhetoric. But then, we have the famous words of the Rt. Hon. John Crosby: "If we told you what we were going to do, you wouldn't have voted for us."

My sense is, he is reluctant to say anything that will cost him votes. That is a good strategy for a first election, but it will not work for the re-election bid when voters challenge him on all those things he was expected to do, but didn't. Kinda like "sunny ways." ?

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If Mr. Poilievre wins as expected, it will mean he gains support from a lot of Red Tories in the GTA. Their political views  are different from the core supporters in the west. Finding a middle ground that won't alienate both camps is never easy. 

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And all Trudeau said is, if you want to know, get the security clearance offered to you then you can do with it what  you want, within the security parameters.

Not defending anyone but acting the poor little boy is wearing thin. Get the clearance and find out.

Edited by ExFlyer
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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

I have no doubt that Mr. Poilievre will win the next election. He is very good with the one liner. I wonder if he has the skill to get himself out of the corners he has painted himself into with some of his more bizarre ideas. He has been very good at describing what he doesn't like, but getting him to even hint at what his solutions are, is seemingly impossible. Last winter, I asked a simple question about a couple of files he will need to deal with when he forms a government. When I received no response, I followed up, with no results so far. I did get a note saying they would respond soon. Please send money. That was in April. Recently I received a request to renew my membership...and please send money. I replied that I would, after I get a reply to my emails from last winter. I did get a response of sorts. Please send money.

I have to hope he will follow normal practice of consulting with the senior public service and his ministry will govern accordingly, but that will be a difficult climb down from his pre-election rhetoric. But then, we have the famous words of the Rt. Hon. John Crosby: "If we told you what we were going to do, you wouldn't have voted for us."

My sense is, he is reluctant to say anything that will cost him votes. That is a good strategy for a first election, but it will not work for the re-election bid when voters challenge him on all those things he was expected to do, but didn't. Kinda like "sunny ways." ?

Nobody with half a brain gives away any of their policy other than the very big picture 10,000 ft view before the election.

Look at even what he has released.  The other day in parliament justin says a whole bunch of things they need to do to improve housing - pressure municipalities to improve density, etc and then says too bad Pollievre doesn't have any ideas - and PP points out the fact he's said those things WORD FOR WORD over the last 18 months numerous times.

Turns out trudeau's people screwed up and thought this was a new policy idea instead of an old one and Justin was trying to steal it to rob PP of a talking point.

And that's what the liberals do and have done forever. If they think a policy is popular they steal it, if they don't they spend the next 10 months smearing it. BTW - if you had bought bit coin when PP was talking about it - you'd have made good money. it went back up. That's why the libs don't like talking about it anymore :) 

 

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Of course, being the devil's advocate, if an opposition member has a better solution to a problem, it could be argued that they have a duty to pass it on the the government to implement it, unless winning an election is more important than helping the country. That is how we got old age pensions and the CBC, both borrowed from other parties by the Conservative Party. Waiting until after a future election delays solutions.

On the other hand, winning elections is fun. 

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1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Of course, being the devil's advocate, if an opposition member has a better solution to a problem, it could be argued that they have a duty to pass it on the the government to implement it,

It could not be argued thusly. Our system is a confrontation based system with one party forming gov't. While opposition parties can present bills if they like they are under no obligation whatsoever to propose 'better' solutions. That is NOT their job. Their job is to put the solutions proposed by the gov't to the 'acid test' and be critical - which in theory allowes the gov't to detect weaknesses in their policy and bills and improve them before they are law.

If people don't like the gov't solutions then they are free to pick a different gov't.

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 

unless winning an election is more important than helping the country. That is how we got old age pensions and the CBC, both borrowed from other parties by the Conservative Party.

No - the first pension act was under mckenzie king - liberal and the cbc was also king in '36.

However if you want to look at history of ideas how about supply managment. The conservatives proposed it, and ran on it and trudeau (the first) trashed it up and down and made it sound horrible and people voted against it and trudeau won the election. 6 months later he brought in supply management ;)

this is why you don't give your plan away early.

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

Waiting until after a future election delays solutions.

Yeah. Too bad.

1 hour ago, Queenmandy85 said:

On the other hand, winning elections is fun. 

Yeah.  It's what political parties are there to do.  That's how the system works.

The voters don't reward parties for giving up ideas early for the opposition to use. Would you do something at your work that would get you fired even if it helped the company? Probably not - you'd probably rather keep your job.  If the company wants to you to do things differently then they should promote you for that behavior.

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On 6/1/2023 at 12:07 AM, CdnFox said:

 

https://twitter.com/therealkeean/status/1663993851114328064?s=46&t=cRwDAwEF-1fKEqCRPfhcJw

As many will remember - Justin trudeau was accused of having had to leave his acting job due to 'inappropriate' relations with a student.  Here PP shows his skill at the art of insinuation again :)  

This guy has the skills to win the next election.

In a rare moment of unity, the At Issue panel all condemned Mr. Poilievre's dive to the bottom in that exchange.

On another hand, I was just looking at the 338 site which gives the CPC 143 seats to the Grits 131. To form a government, the CPC will need the support of either the Bloc or the NDP. What will the CPC have to give to acquire and maintain that support? Does PP cozy up the the separatists or the socialists?

Edited by Queenmandy85
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17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 

In a rare moment of unity, the At Issue panel all condemned Mr. Poilievre's dive to the bottom in that exchange.

He had it coming, and for a guy who has frequently swore at the opposition and called them pieces of shite and accused jewish members of being nazi's, i have zero sympathy.

17 hours ago, Queenmandy85 said:

On another hand, I was just looking at the 338 site which gives the CPC 143 seats to the Grits 131. To form a government, the CPC will need the support of either the Bloc or the NDP. What will the CPC have to give to acquire and maintain that support? Does PP cozy up the the separatists or the socialists?

If that's how the election turned out then if harper's any example he'd work with all three at different times to push things through. The block will certainly work with the CPC under the right conditions and so will the libs - remember it'd be about a year and half minimum before they would be ready to go back to the polls, so its not that hard to push them around a little early on. The NDP as well would PROBABLY be looking for a new leader and will be poor, so they won't be eager to go.

A more serious concern would be the ndp and the libs forming an official coalition, taking down the gov't if they can and holding on to power that way.  They've tried it before and as we've seen with the non-coalition-colalition they're not afraid to work together to hold power.

But the fact is PP is constantly and consistently slowly rising in the polls. By the time there's an election he could very well be looking at a majority. 

Also and this can't be stressed enough - campaigns matter.  A good campaign can propel someone from being behind another party to winning a majority, and a bad campaoign can take someone who's polling solidly into majority terrritory and drop him to a minority as justin found out.  And this kind of ability to make solid comebacks and respond to bullying along with his previous track record of campaigning gives me hope that he'll be able to rise another few points in the polls come election time and pull off a majority.

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On 6/1/2023 at 3:53 PM, ExFlyer said:

And all Trudeau said is, if you want to know, get the security clearance offered to you then you can do with it what  you want, within the security parameters.

Not defending anyone but acting the poor little boy is wearing thin. Get the clearance and find out.

For Trudeau the promise of "transparency" evidently really means trans something else.

Think about it

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On 6/1/2023 at 3:07 PM, Queenmandy85 said:

My sense is, he is reluctant to say anything that will cost him votes. That is a good strategy for a first election, but it will not work for the re-election bid when voters challenge him on all those things he was expected to do, but didn't.

I think all that reasonable Canadians are asking for is responsible government that actually does its job, and stays within its own box. That includes staying out of the bedroom of Canadians.  ;)

Whatever Poillievre does may not matter as much as the fact he's NOT Trudeua.

Now if only we could get a PM that Canadians can actually spell his name...

;)

Edited by OftenWrong
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19 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

For Trudeau the promise of "transparency" evidently really means trans something else.

Think about it

Huh? "trans something else"? What is that?

He offered security clearance for PP so see it all. PP makes drama of it and decides to be ignorant of any facts that can be presented and seen. His choice... but for the drama it is better for him to remain uniformed.

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8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Huh? "trans something else"? What is that?

He offered security clearance for PP so see it all. PP makes drama of it and decides to be ignorant of any facts that can be presented and seen. His choice... but for the drama it is better for him to remain uniformed.

Trans parency. I cannot dumb it down enough for you.

Mr. Trudeau is a liar and complete charlotte tan.

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1 hour ago, OftenWrong said:

Trans parency. I cannot dumb it down enough for you.

Mr. Trudeau is a liar and complete charlotte tan.

Bottom line is PP is offered a security clearance so he can see it all on it's full transparency and unrestrained glory but he rather likes the drama and political show business than becoming fully aware.

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13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said:

Trans parency. I cannot dumb it down enough for you.

Mr. Trudeau is a liar and complete charlotte tan.

For those of us who are a bit dim, you are going to have to spell that out. Trans-portation?, trans-literation, trans-gender, trans-Canada? What the heck are you talking about and what has it got to do with security clearance?

Everyone seems to be missing the real question. Yes, China has been trying to interfere in Canadian elections. So have the Americans and the Russians. It is nothing new.  Everybody does it. It is not right, but that is the way it is.

The real danger is to have CSIS interfering in Canadian politics. Military, intelligence agencies and police must always be non-political. These leaks violate that rule. CSIS is tasked with collecting, analyzing intelligence and advising the government. What the government does with it is beyond the limits of CSIS's mandate. What appears to be happening in this case, is a third party with access to classified material is leaking selected files to damage the government. That is tantamont to an attemped coup.

Traditionally, intelligence agencies are the worst investment by governments. They are universally incompetent. The exception are the agencies that collect and analyze communications such as the NSA, GCHQ, and Canada's CSE. If you want a picture of the level of abilities of spies, look at Philby, Donovan, Angleton, the two GRU clowns that poisoned the Skripals, William Stephenson, and Best and Stevens of the Venlo Incident (read clown circus). Every German spy sent to England in the War, was captured and either turned or executed. I am not that familiar with China's intelligence agencies but I see no reason to believe their thugs are anymore reliable or competant than anyone else's.

I am not advocating abolishing CSIS. I advocate that we keep their importance in perspective and give their knuckles a good hard whack for their mis-handling their product and allowing their members and contractors from using their priveledged access to dabble in politics.

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33 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

For those of us who are a bit dim, you are going to have to spell that out. Trans-portation?, trans-literation, trans-gender, trans-Canada? What the heck are you talking about and what has it got to do with security clearance?

Everyone seems to be missing the real question. Yes, China has been trying to interfere in Canadian elections. So have the Americans and the Russians. It is nothing new.  Everybody does it. It is not right, but that is the way it is.

The real danger is to have CSIS interfering in Canadian politics. Military, intelligence agencies and police must always be non-political. These leaks violate that rule. CSIS is tasked with collecting, analyzing intelligence and advising the government. What the government does with it is beyond the limits of CSIS's mandate. What appears to be happening in this case, is a third party with access to classified material is leaking selected files to damage the government. That is tantamont to an attemped coup.

Traditionally, intelligence agencies are the worst investment by governments. They are universally incompetent. The exception are the agencies that collect and analyze communications such as the NSA, GCHQ, and Canada's CSE. If you want a picture of the level of abilities of spies, look at Philby, Donovan, Angleton, the two GRU clowns that poisoned the Skripals, William Stephenson, and Best and Stevens of the Venlo Incident (read clown circus). Every German spy sent to England in the War, was captured and either turned or executed. I am not that familiar with China's intelligence agencies but I see no reason to believe their thugs are anymore reliable or competant than anyone else's.

I am not advocating abolishing CSIS. I advocate that we keep their importance in perspective and give their knuckles a good hard whack for their mis-handling their product and allowing their members and contractors from using their priveledged access to dabble in politics.

but CSIS doesn't owe its loyalty to the government, only to the monarch

if CSIS has determined that the government is under the undue influence of a hostile foreign power

they have a duty to report that to Parliament ;  in the name of HM The King

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On 6/1/2023 at 12:07 AM, CdnFox said:

 

https://twitter.com/therealkeean/status/1663993851114328064?s=46&t=cRwDAwEF-1fKEqCRPfhcJw

As many will remember - Justin trudeau was accused of having had to leave his acting job due to 'inappropriate' relations with a student.  Here PP shows his skill at the art of insinuation again :)  

This guy has the skills to win the next election.

By using this strategy, Mr. Poilievre opens him self up to references to the revelations of his child molesting in 2019. That too is a false accusation, but when he starts throwing excrement, he should expect to get buried in it. Unless he can back up his accusations with proof, he is going to show himself to be a dung feeder. It is unbecoming of an honourable member. He keeps asking me to renew my membership and give him money, but he goes out of his way to alienate me.

Political discourse has rules. Opposing politicians are rivals, not enemies. They need to be able to work together behind the scenes because, in the long run, they all have the same objective...serving Canadians.

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47 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 That is tantamont to an attemped coup.

no

this is a Westminster Parliament

and a minority government

if the security services invoke their oaths of allegiance

in order to expose the government as being compromised

and that causes the government to fall by losing the confidence of the House therein

that is an entirely constitutional peaceful transfer of power

exactly how a Westminster Parliament is intended to function

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7 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

 Opposing politicians are rivals, not enemies.

here again would be the monarchy in action

in that, all MP's have sworn an oath to the monarch,

and so are in theory all bearing true & faithful allegiance therein

but as the majority of Canadians now reject the constitutional monarchy as being legitimate

the state of affairs in degenerating towards civil war

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33 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

More CSIS smears.

How did I smear them? The Security of Information Act is clear. Sec. 4  "Wrongful communication, etc., of information; Communication of sketch, plan, model, etc.; Receiving code word, sketch, etc.; Retaining or allowing possession of document, etc." and Sec. 18 "Breach of trust in respect of safeguarded information." Rather than calling for the resignation of Mr. Johnston, perhaps it is Director Vigneault who needs to resign.

Edited by Queenmandy85
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2 minutes ago, Queenmandy85 said:

How did I smear them? The Security of Information Act is clear. Sec. 4  "Wrongful communication, etc., of information; Communication of sketch, plan, model, etc.; Receiving code word, sketch, etc.; Retaining or allowing possession of document, etc." and Sec. 18 "Breach of trust in respect of safeguarded information." Rather than calling for the resignation of Mr. Johnston, perhaps it is Director Vigneault who needs to resign.

but if MP's within the government are acting on behalf of a hostile foreign power in any way

that is Treason by Section 46 of the Criminal Code

and the government itself is attempting to cover this up

CSIS has a duty to report the crime to the Commander-in-Chief, above the heads of government

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1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Bottom line is PP is offered a security clearance so he can see it all on it's full transparency and unrestrained glory but he rather likes the drama and political show business than becoming fully aware.

I concede it's true. Politics is tit for that, as my pappy used to say.   ;)

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27 minutes ago, Dougie93 said:

no

this is a Westminster Parliament

and a minority government

if the security services invoke their oaths of allegiance

in order to expose the government as being compromised

and that causes the government to fall by losing the confidence of the House therein

that is an entirely constitutional peaceful transfer of power

exactly how a Westminster Parliament is intended to function

Agreed. This should not be covered up. The poster is implying CSIS needs to be partisan to the government in power. That is the road to totalitarianism.

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