Mass absences break out at London schools as Pride flag flies

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

This is an odd approach.  What you are saying is that there are two sides, and whichever side polls higher on a question is the side that 'owns' the issue.  

I guess that's practical but it means that liberal vs conservative vs social political philosophy means nothing.

Strong support for law and order is a conservative value, even if you poll republicans and find they think the FBI is a secret liberal army.  That's how I see it.

As for this issue - LGBTQ+ freedom is a freedom issue.  Pro-freedom people should favour tolerance.  Conservatives should favour plurality as that is where we came from - it's a traditional Canadian value.

As @August1991 famously said "We get along."

No I'm not.  I'm acknowledging that politics plays a part in how people react to such things.  Would you say I'm wrong about how support for the LGBGT community is received by the political spectrum?

The only Republicans who think the FBI is a secret liberal army are QAnon type conspiracy theorists.  They really don't count, in any discussion.

You're right.  I'm pro-freedom and pro-tolerance.

I really think getting along is a thing of the past.

Edited May 19, 2023 by bcsapper

[blackbird]

4 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said:

As for this issue - LGBTQ+ freedom is a freedom issue.  Pro-freedom people should favour tolerance. 

How about instead of demanding special treatment or recognition or special days for one group, treat everyone the same... with respect.  What you are essentially doing is giving special treatment and recognition to one particular group and saying everyone else get behind in the line.  Isn't that discrimination?   Dividing society into two groups Michael.  

This is no-brainer.   Just stop this nonsense and teach students that everyone should be loved and treated with respect.

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I see it not being challenged in any way equally, by both political sides.

How come so many kids stayed home from school? 

Also, do you not see the news about everything from "don't say gay" to grooming drag queens?  The opposition to teaching gay rights in schools comes from the right, not the left.

Ask a few posters on here.

Edited May 19, 2023 by bcsapper

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

How come so many kids stayed home from school?

Your ideas are suspect because you reject God and his word, the Bible and think everyone should be able to do their own thing to the extent that you advocate anyone should be free to have medically-assisted suicide.  You promote a free-for-all society which is anarchy.   

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Your ideas are suspect because you reject God and his word, the Bible and think everyone should be able to do their own thing to the extent that you advocate anyone should be free to have medically-assisted suicide.  You promote a free-for-all society which is anarchy.   

Your ideas are suspect because they include your delusions based on your imaginary friend.  But we've done all that, you and I. 

Edited May 19, 2023 by bcsapper

[ExFlyer]

9 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

How come so many kids stayed home from school?

Also, do you not see the news about everything from "don't say gay" to grooming drag queens?  The opposition to teaching gay rights in schools comes from the right, not the left.

Ask a few posters on here.

 

The schools and students in question are in elementary schools. I suggest to you the parents kept kids out of school.

I suggest to you that ad it been high schools, the older students are far more "tolerant" and would have supported their queer friends.

Here in Ottawa we have a very large issue with this sort of thing. Non gender bathrooms etc. One school bard in Ottawa is disallowing police officers in uniform from entering the schools unless on official business. Society and culture has overtaken common sense (on the left and right :)).

Response to your edit:

Are you implying the conservative right are anti gay?

Edited May 19, 2023 by ExFlyer

[Guest]

1 minute ago, ExFlyer said:

The schools and students in question are in elementary schools. I suggest to you the parents kept kids out of school.

I suggest to you that ad it been high schools, the older students are far more "tolerant" and would have supported their queer friends.

Here in Ottawa we have a very large issue with this sort of thing. Non gender bathrooms etc. One school bard in Ottawa is disallowing police officers in uniform from entering the schools unless on official business. Society and culture has overtaken common sense (on the left and right :)).

The parents did keep their kids out of school.  My point is that they weren't left wing parents.  They were conservative right wing religious nutjobs who belong alongside some of the posters on here when it comes to tolerance.

I support individual bathrooms where any gender can take a leak.  I am appalled that a school board is disallowing police officers in uniform from entering the schools unless on official business.

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Your ideas are suspect because they include your delusions based on your imaginary friend.  But we've done all that, you and I. 

No, you have proven nothing.  Your ideas can easily be shown to be nonsensical and irrational.   It is fairly easy to demonstrate that God is real and his word is authoritative and credible.  You have not been able to defend your beliefs at all.  You are like a naked man shouting in the wind.

You need to read the book Darwin's Universe, From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing -- Survival for Nothing by Yan T. Wee.

We did exchange a few comments, but we hardly scratched the surface.   You have said nothing to convince anyone of anything rational.   You are a self-convinced extreme libertarian, which practically nobody else would buy into.

If you had a little brother who was unhappy, you would be ok with him choosing suicide according to what you've said.

You would hold the same thinking for any boy in school who decided he wanted to be a girl.  That's just the kind for freedom you believe in.  

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

7 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

I support individual bathrooms where any gender can take a leak. 

Sound very ambiguous.  So do you think a biological male, who claims to be a girl, should be able to use girl's washrooms and change rooms for sports?

[Guest]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

Sound very ambiguous.  So do you think a biological male, who claims to be a girl, should be able to use girl's washrooms and change rooms for sports?

in·di·vid·u·al

adjective

adjective: individual

1. 1.

   single; separate.

   "individual tiny flowers"

[Guest]

15 minutes ago, blackbird said:

No, you have proven nothing.  Your ideas can easily be shown to be nonsensical and irrational.   It is fairly easy to demonstrate that God is real and his word is authoritative and credible.  You have not been able to defend your beliefs at all.  You are like a naked man shouting in the wind.

You need to read the book Darwin's Universe, From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing -- Survival for Nothing by Yan T. Wee.

We did exchange a few comments, but we hardly scratched the surface.   You have said nothing to convince anyone of anything rational.   You are a self-convinced extreme libertarian, which practically nobody else would buy into.

If you had a little brother who was unhappy, you would be ok with him choosing suicide according to what you've said.

You would hold the same thinking for any boy in school who decided he wanted to be a girl.  That's just the kind for freedom you believe in.  

 

I look at things as an individual and base my views on them on sane, rational thought.

You want to control others based on a work of fiction.

Each to their own.

When you scratch the surface and find such an utter incompatibility of opinion and belief, there's no point in risking a broken nail looking for consensus.

As for your last two questions, I answered both on here recently.  If you can't find my answers let me know and I'll point them out when I get a chance.

Edited May 19, 2023 by bcsapper

[eyeball]

2 hours ago, Michael Hardner said:

There is nothing wrong with inclusion, it's a good thing.  

I have no issues at all with excluding red-necked arseholes.

[blackbird]

21 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

They were conservative right wing religious nutjobs ......

quote

Darwinists hope to bury God in an avalanche of a causeless universe and a godless evolution.  But instead of liberating us, they plunge us into a cosmic depression.  We are reduced to: From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing - an accidental leftover from the Big Bang, evolved by a lucky chance, and are here for no ultimate purpose.

unquote...   -  Darwin's Universe

You want everyone to live like animals and be free do just kill themselves for any reason whatsoever.  You apply the same kind of radical libertarianism to what people do with their lives and sexuality.   I suppose you would approve of bestiality if one was so inclined?  Maybe a sheep or goat right? Pornography and brothels??   No problem.  There is nothing one should not be able to do, right?

After all in your world view, nobody is accountable to God.  You think it should be basically a free-for-all as long as one doesn't step on someone else's toes I guess.

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by blackbird

[WestCanMan]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Inclusion is being done in a very exclusionary fashion these days. And that won't lead to inclusion at all.

Yep. IMO it's impossible to have a special "inclusivity day" for every group, and the feelings of LGBTQ students has already been elevated above the physical safety of girls in western society, which is crazy imo.

I always thought that girls were the most protected group in our society, and for very good reason.  

I'm neutral towards individuals based on their sexuality but I hate the LGBTQ "leadership". Them allowing BLM and banning police at their Toronto parade was the last straw for me. 

[eyeball]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't understand how I need to fly a flag to state I won't discriminate.

As I see it the intent of these flags are to inform red-necked arseholes they won't be tolerated.

If they want to stay away, good.

1 hour ago, Legato said:

If that were correct then flying a confederate flag or a Swastika would be okay. Okay?

If that's what you want to do at schools for red-necked arseholes that's what you should do.

[Michael Hardner]

3 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

• 1. I appreciate the notion of inclusion as a community value, but it is important to approach it with a critical lens.
• 2. Rapid implementation without assessing feasibility and cultural integration can lead to disruptions and inefficiencies.
• 3. Therefore, a balanced and thoughtful approach to inclusion is necessary to ensure its effectiveness and avoid unintended consequences.

1.  Critical ?  I suppose any moral aspect can be looked at analytically.  Critically ?  Well.... let's see where this goes BUT I am anticipating having to point out that reason is NOT the king of deciding how we govern ourselves.
2. Yes but that's not being critical.  There is nothing that forces individuals to follow community values absolutely, and there never have been.  The moral sphere is a positive model, and the model of plurality follows it into the moral sphere.  These can be difficult conversations, as people find it hard to reconcile inclusion of LGBTQ+ as well as religions that exclude LGBTQ+.
3. Such as flying a flag to symbolize acceptance as a community value.
 
Yes your point is taken.  If you are surprised that I agree with you search my posts that defend Trinity University's policy of excluding LGBTQ+ students from attending.

7 minutes ago, eyeball said:

I have no issues at all with excluding red-necked arseholes.

I'll bet you drink with a few.  I do too.  Hard for me to keep a straight face when a guy tells me a 20-minute story the point of which being that he had to wait at customs while they interviewed a Muslim in line in front of him.

But, tolerance goes all ways.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, blackbird said:

quote

Darwinists hope to bury God in an avalanche of a causeless universe and a godless evolution.  But instead of liberating us, they plunge us into a cosmic depression.  We are reduced to: From Nothing, By Nothing, For Nothing - an accidental leftover from the Big Bang, evolved by a lucky chance, and are here for no ultimate purpose.

unquote...   -  Darwin's Universe

You want everyone to live like animals and be free do just kill themselves for any reason whatsoever.  You apply the same kind of radical libertarianism to what people do with their lives and sexuality.   I suppose you would approve of bestiality if one was so inclined?  Maybe a sheep or goat right? Pornography and brothels??   No problem.  There is nothing one should not be able to do, right?

After all in your world view, nobody is accountable to God.  You think it should be basically a free-for-all as long as one doesn't step on someone else's toes I guess.

 

Actually, nobody is accountable to God.  Even if there is one, the accountability doesn't apply now.  It will come after death.  Then I think you'll see how your God views petty intolerance.  If it exists, of course.

[blackbird]

8 minutes ago, eyeball said:

red-necked arseholes

You found a new phrase.   Do you actually think throwing that around shows any kind intelligence, wisdom, or knowledge about anything?

Put the bottle down for a change this morning.

Edited May 19, 2023 by blackbird

[eyeball]

1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said:

I'll bet you drink with a few. I do too. 

If I do they keep their sentiments in the closet.

Quote

Hard for me to keep a straight face when a guy tells me a 20-minute story the point of which being that he had to wait at customs while they interviewed a Muslim in line in front of him.

But, tolerance goes all ways.

 I just don't have the patience for it I guess.

[eyeball]

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You found a new phrase.   Do you actually think throwing that around shows any kind intelligence, wisdom, or knowledge about anything?

It does when it comes to people who insist on being arseholes.

Quote

Put the bottle down for a change this morning.

I'm drinking a coffee before I head off to work.  I make a six pack of beer last a couple weeks so...I haven't been drunk in over 35 years.

Maybe that's a problem in some circles.

[Michael Hardner]

46 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

1. No I'm not.  I'm acknowledging that politics plays a part in how people react to such things.  Would you say I'm wrong about how support for the LGBGT community is received by the political spectrum?

2. The only Republicans who think the FBI is a secret liberal army are QAnon type conspiracy theorists.  They really don't count, in any discussion.

3. You're right.  I'm pro-freedom and pro-tolerance.

4. I really think getting along is a thing of the past.

1. I don't think I said it was wrong... but it normalizes politics as tribe vs. reason.
2. You can find polls that say Republicans don't trust the FBI - think it's persecuting Trump etc.  Again I'm not saying you are wrong, but what it means is that conservatism increasingly means distrust of the police.
3. 4. Not getting along is a stupid fad IMO.  

[blackbird]

10 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Actually, nobody is accountable to God.

"And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: "  Hebrews 9:27 KJV

Then there's this passage which seems to show judgment during this life:

"20  For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: {so…: or, that they may be} 21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22  Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23  And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24  Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25  Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. {more: or, rather} 26  For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27  And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28  And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; {to retain: or, to acknowledge} {a reprobate…: or, a mind void of judgment or, an unapproving mind} 29  Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30  Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31  Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: {without natural…: or unsociable} 32  Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. {have…: or, consent with} "  Romans 1:20-32  KJV

  This does sound like God even judges people in this life, don't you think?

Edited May 19, 2023 by blackbird

[Guest]

Just now, Michael Hardner said:

1. I don't think I said it was wrong... but it normalizes politics as tribe vs. reason.
2. You can find polls that say Republicans don't trust the FBI - think it's persecuting Trump etc.  Again I'm not saying you are wrong, but what it means is that conservatism increasingly means distrust of the police.
3. 4. Not getting along is a stupid fad IMO.  

1) Normailizes or acknowledges?  It is what it is.  It's fairly obvious too.  Tribes are real.

2) I'm sure you can find polls that say the opposite, too.  Real Republicans, not RINOs, of course.

3) 4) I'm not particularly happy about it either.  But as the world gets hotter, livable space shrinks, the population increases and the water gets scarcer, don't look for it to get any better.

[Michael Hardner]

10 minutes ago, eyeball said:

If I do they keep their sentiments in the closet.

 I just don't have the patience for it I guess.

So you're getting along.  I am mostly patient, given where I am from.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, blackbird said:

This does sound like God even judges people in this life, don't you think?

Do you think that's why I never win the lottery?