Poilievre perceived to be more competent than Trudeau, national poll shows (stats climbing)

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

None of those suggest that people didn't generally support the protesters for the most part or were sympathetic. They can still very easily feel that restrictions went too far even if they feel some are necessary, and saying that they made their point and should go home is not the same as suggesting they didn't have a point to begin with.

Nope, sorry but that's not true. While the incoment party may slump a little midterm, we dont' generally see leaders numbers change much due to mid term slump especially the opposition. The consistent slow rise we're seeing with PP is different, and seems pretty sustained.

OK, you win

[CdnFox]

Awwww don't go away mad....

[TreeBeard]

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

Failure to meet the Canadian Forces spending of 2%. 

This is a plus for me. 
 

4 hours ago, blackbird said:

resulting in inflation

Canada has fared better than most western countries, so shouldn’t you be giving him credit than doing better than most other countries?

[ExFlyer]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Awwww don't go away mad....

Who's going away?

I am not or will not ever look for agreement or approval. Point was...who cares? Not me LOL

 

[CdnFox]

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

Who's going away?

Just a joke bud   if you don't get the reference don't worry about it.

30 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

I am not or will not ever look for agreement or approval. Point was...who cares? Not me LOL

 

Ok  

[Army Guy]

11 hours ago, ExFlyer said:

"Poilievre did not present a climate plan during the leadership race and has not signalled his intention of doing so in the near future now that he is leader, but has repeatedly been saying that technology, not taxes, is the way to reduce emissions"   https://nationalpost.com/news/pierre-poilievre-plans-to-scrap-the-carbon-tax-but-will-he-unveil-a-climate-plan

The "convoy thing" was a point. We all know what happened and a vocal few were very pro convoy but, the majority of Canadians (as polls a indicated) were not pro convoy and in fact against.

Not in any way promoting Justin just agreeing that PP has not established himself as a leader. Being a critic is easy.

Political facetiousness does not become you

Actual he has a plan, using technology is a plan is it as detailed as you want it to be, no. but the fact remains it is a plan... like Justin plan continuing to use the Carbon tax that has proven not to work not once, twice, three but four times it has failed to meet any agreed standards...

Sure it was a point, a wrong point for both sides....  but this was my point supporting the conveyors was not as severe as all the shit Justin has done in the last 8 years, Not even close...Nothing PP has done even compares to what Justin has or has not done.  Thats not opinion thats a fact...that even liberals know. 

Just becasue the majority of Canadians agreed on something in a poll does not make it right, look at gun control, or justice system, 1 million genders.

Currently that is his job being the critic...Justin is in power it is his and the NDP coalition that are running the country right now. And i' sure he has a detailed plan one a wide variety of issues or is working on one for the election when ever that comes. 

Why release it today, it would be like reveling ones entire battle plan to the enemy before the battle even started... right now he has the luxury of hammering dumb and dumber for their mistakes...

 

[blackbird]

5 hours ago, TreeBeard said:

10 hours ago, blackbird said:

Failure to meet the Canadian Forces spending of 2%. 

This is a plus for me. 

"The problem, according to all three commanders, is money. There's a $1.3 billion funding shortfall this year alone. The effect, they say is planes unable to fly, ships at dock and an army in danger of rusting out."  

Canadian military says underfunding serious problem for defence forces | CBC News

The problem is western democracies are under threat from authoritarian countries.  

Democracy is not without a price.  Nations who wish to remain free must spend lots on defence or risk losing their freedom in the world.  Canada has not been pulling it's share for years.

"The armed forces are the land , naval and air forces commanded by the federal government for the purpose of defending Canada's security, protecting its citizens, and promoting its strategic interests at home or abroad."

History of the Armed Forces in Canada | The Canadian Encyclopedia

[TreeBeard]

People in the military want more money to be spent on the military.  Shocking. 
 

I bet bridge builders think we should build more bridges too!

[CdnFox]

41 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Actual he has a plan, using technology is a plan is it as detailed as you want it to be, no. but the fact remains it is a plan... like Justin plan continuing to use the Carbon tax that has proven not to work not once, twice, three but four times it has failed to meet any agreed standards...

This is the thing. You can bet he's got something solid in his head that he'll propose. Of course hes not even going to hint at it now because you would be insane to do so. Politically it would be the stupidest move he could make. 

But - anyone who says they vote liberal because of the ENVIRONMENT has to be competing to be the stupidest person on earth. The libs have been missing climate comittments THEY made since kyoto.  Chretien said of climate change conferences "You go and you promise but you NEVER do". Justin has missed every single one of his climate commitments by a mile.

If you care about the environment the liberals are the last party you would vote for.

Edited May 18, 2023 by CdnFox

[Army Guy]

27 minutes ago, TreeBeard said:

People in the military want more money to be spent on the military.  Shocking. 
 

I bet bridge builders think we should build more bridges too!

Well you would have a point if the military was well equipped, and well manned, but it is not ...That is what the majority of Canadians want as well, according to the latest studies... This has been a liberal quotation for some time now... The problem is not many Canadians know exactly what our military gives this nation everyday... nor do they know to what state our forces are really in...The media from both sides of the political spectrum has reported all of this dozens of times.. you just refused to believe it...

 

[Moonbox]

You've acknowledged in the past that the Liberals aren't unique in their neglect for the military.  
 

I agree with you, but I don't think I've been alive for a Prime Minister who properly looked after our military.  

[ExFlyer]

10 hours ago, Army Guy said:

Actual he has a plan, using technology is a plan is it as detailed as you want it to be, no. but the fact remains it is a plan... like Justin plan continuing to use the Carbon tax that has proven not to work not once, twice, three but four times it has failed to meet any agreed standards...

Sure it was a point, a wrong point for both sides....  but this was my point supporting the conveyors was not as severe as all the shit Justin has done in the last 8 years, Not even close...Nothing PP has done even compares to what Justin has or has not done.  Thats not opinion thats a fact...that even liberals know. 

Just becasue the majority of Canadians agreed on something in a poll does not make it right, look at gun control, or justice system, 1 million genders.

Currently that is his job being the critic...Justin is in power it is his and the NDP coalition that are running the country right now. And i' sure he has a detailed plan one a wide variety of issues or is working on one for the election when ever that comes. 

Why release it today, it would be like reveling ones entire battle plan to the enemy before the battle even started... right now he has the luxury of hammering dumb and dumber for their mistakes...

 

Lets throw the failed "agreed upon standards" blanket over Canada as a whole. All PM's have failed to meet them since the very first agreement.

The Convoy had a issue in the beginning and it may have been valid but, whatever it became was so blurred, many, if not most Canadians did not agree as the polls indicated..

Lets be realistic here, PP has not done anything yet, he has only had a couple years(?) at the helm.. He is only an opposition member and can only complain.

As I said in another post, my poll vs your poll (or any poll). If someone is going to use a poll for or as their argument, then be prepared to see other polls that may disagree. Polls are just personal opinions on a question at a specific time, right or wrong or indifferent.

Never asked PP to release anything but, if a person want people to follow, they have to present some sort of path forward. Are you for PP simply because he is not Trudeau even if his ideas could be worse? Just being anti someone does not make the other better. Or is it just a partisan thing?

 

 

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by ExFlyer

[PIK]

On 5/16/2023 at 3:06 PM, ExFlyer said:

Yet still less than half of those surveyed think he has good judgment or is competent.

I personally do not think neither are good leaders.

We know Trudeau isn't, so let PP try his hand.

[ExFlyer]

30 minutes ago, PIK said:

We know Trudeau isn't, so let PP try his hand.

Yup, that is how we do things in Canada, hope the other guy is better

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

Yup, that is how we do things in Canada, hope the other guy is better

And he often is.  Mulroney was better than the previous trudeau, harper was a billion light years better than paul martin (a used teabag was better than martin) and it's quite possible PP  will be better than justin.

Our problem isn't that we hope that the other guy is better - our problem is that we shouldn't be picking the worse guys in the first place.

[SpankyMcFarland]

The behaviour of many members of the Convoy in Ottawa was disgraceful and Poilievre was foolish to be ambivalent about it. I suspect those alt-right sympathies he has will be a major element in the Liberals’ next campaign. These days in North America, conservatives appeal to a fringe that can be fairly wild. Assuming they win, I’d like to see a minor course correction from the Tories on budget deficits, China and the like but certainly nothing approaching what the Right in the US have planned for their country. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The behaviour of many members of the Convoy in Ottawa was disgraceful and Poilievre was foolish to be ambivalent about it. I suspect those alt-right sympathies he has will be a major element in the Liberals’ next campaign. These days in North America, conservatives appeal to a fringe that can be fairly wild. Assuming they win, I’d like to see a minor course correction from the Tories on budget deficits, China and the like but certainly nothing approaching what the Right in the US have planned for their country. 

Then the left should have voted in erin otoole. They did not.

Now you get PP.    So - there you go. The choice was given for moderate change - it was denied - now you get something a little more right.  Not much - he's still just a right of center harper conservative, not a far right nutbar like Max - but definitely more right than you're going to like i suspect.

[ExFlyer]

12 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And he often is.  Mulroney was better than the previous trudeau, harper was a billion light years better than paul martin (a used teabag was better than martin) and it's quite possible PP  will be better than justin.

Our problem isn't that we hope that the other guy is better - our problem is that we shouldn't be picking the worse guys in the first place.

So, by your pattern, Justin was better than Harper? LOL

I agree we should not be picking a worse person but, the party faithful are the ones selecting the leaders.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

So, by your pattern, Justin was better than Harper? LOL

Justin was different than harper. people wanted to see the free hand outs and such - and harper was dull, boring, very effective but in a way that really didn't scratch that left leaning itch for social programs and spending.  It's like the difference between eating a well balanced meal at home and wanting to go out for dinner even tho you know it' s more expensive and worse for you We just didn't realize how much more expensive. Or how bad he'd tear apart the country, ,

Interestingly Chretien got in on PROMISING to be better - then just kept all the stuff mulroney had put in anyway and ignored all his promises

1 hour ago, ExFlyer said:

I agree we should not be picking a worse person but, the party faithful are the ones selecting the leaders.

Not true. For 10 dollars ANYONE AT ALL could buy a membership for a year and vote in the last leadership for the cpc (and the ones before).

Justin's leadership race didn't even charge - anyone at all anywhere could sign up and be a liberal for a year for free and vote for the leadership.

So even those who aren't the party 'faithful' can have a say. 430 THOUSAND people voted in the last conservative leadership race.

 

 

 

 

[ExFlyer]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Justin was different than harper. people wanted to see the free hand outs and such - and harper was dull, boring, very effective but in a way that really didn't scratch that left leaning itch for social programs and spending.  It's like the difference between eating a well balanced meal at home and wanting to go out for dinner even tho you know it' s more expensive and worse for you We just didn't realize how much more expensive. Or how bad he'd tear apart the country, ,

Interestingly Chretien got in on PROMISING to be better - then just kept all the stuff mulroney had put in anyway and ignored all his promises

Not true. For 10 dollars ANYONE AT ALL could buy a membership for a year and vote in the last leadership for the cpc (and the ones before).

Justin's leadership race didn't even charge - anyone at all anywhere could sign up and be a liberal for a year for free and vote for the leadership.

So even those who aren't the party 'faithful' can have a say. 430 THOUSAND people voted in the last conservative leadership race.

 

 

 

 

You said "And he often is." with more and I was Jjst responding to your pattern of changing because the other is better.

 

My intent by saying party faithful is by being party members. I am pretty sure non cons would not buy memberships to stuff the ballots for leaders LOL  Or are you implying otherwise?

[SpankyMcFarland]

15 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Then the left should have voted in erin otoole. They did not.

Now you get PP.    So - there you go. The choice was given for moderate change - it was denied - now you get something a little more right.  Not much - he's still just a right of center harper conservative, not a far right nutbar like Max - but definitely more right than you're going to like i suspect.

Well, we’ll all get PP. I didn’t dislike O’Toole and I’m not exactly campaigning actively for anybody out there. Plus my riding went Conservative last time and will probably do so again. When you say left you surely mean centrist voters? Leftist voters on the left of the Liberal party and into the NDP would never have gone for O’Toole. JT has had his run and it’s up to PP to decide whether he wants to be a one term wonder or not. If he kowtows to the convoy/Bitcoin/anti-vax crowd on the tribal right, I suspect he won’t be around long. Obviously, he shines in debates but successful PMs have qualities not fully tested in Opposition. The ability not to respond to every criticism is one such virtue and we’ll see if he is disciplined enough for a long run. 

Edited May 20, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[CdnFox]

45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

When you say left you surely mean centrist voters? Leftist voters on the left of the Liberal party and into the NDP would never have gone for O’Toole.

Well they should have, because their base is moving to the cpc under PP.  That's been confirmed by many polls.

45 minutes ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

 

JT has had his run and it’s up to PP to decide whether he wants to be a one term wonder or not. If he kowtows to the convoy/Bitcoin/anti-vax crowd on the tribal right, I suspect he won’t be around long. Obviously, he shines in debates but successful PMs have qualities not fully tested in Opposition. The ability not to respond to every criticism is one such virtue and we’ll see if he is disciplined enough for a long run. 

Time will tell.  A lot of the reasons liberals tend to win is their propaganda machines, and with the cbc gone under a PP gov't and the left wing news outlets already faltering, the possibility of putting out a lot of good news stories is strong and that makes a big difference. During harper's time much of the media tried to downplay any positive and focus strongly on any negative.

 

[CdnFox]

20 minutes ago, ExFlyer said:

You said "And he often is." with more and I was Jjst responding to your pattern of changing because the other is better.

 

My intent by saying party faithful is by being party members. I am pretty sure non cons would not buy memberships to stuff the ballots for leaders LOL  Or are you implying otherwise?

oh there was MUCH talk of that - liberals organizing on line claiming they were buying memberships to throw the vote towards a candidate they saw as 'better'.  I have zero doubt that many did - but clearly they were the minority.

Remember that the vast majority of people voting were first time members - not even renewals from the past but first time.  So its not the 'party faithful' that decided that one

 

[WestCanMan]

On 5/16/2023 at 6:30 PM, Aristides said:

PP is in opposition mode which means everything the government does is wrong.

TBH, Trudeau got elected by shrieking about Duffygate while CBC called it "an election issue". 

When he got elected he did a bunch of things that he never really talked about before, like giving the CBC a $675M raise and giving away billions of dollars to a bunch of different countries that we never even knew needed money. 

Then he gave $600M in tax credits to sycophant media right before the 2019 election, and again, that's not something that was ever part of any platform. 

What's the LPOC platform aside from forcing people to vaccinate who don't need to, denigrating white cisgender devil-men, etc? 

Honest to God, I wouldn't unplug my cell phone charger to give him a spot to plug in his life support. 

[WestCanMan]

6 hours ago, SpankyMcFarland said:

The ability not to respond to every criticism is one such virtue and we’ll see if he is disciplined enough for a long run. 

Sadly for him, he really does have to be extremely disciplined. 

Trudeau can be involved in scandal after scandal and the MSM will block them out come election time, debates will avoid the topic entirely. But if PP says anything that can be misconstrued as something bad the MSM will headline it for weeks/months.