Canada shouldn't deny assisted suicide if social conditions made life intolerable: bioethicists

[CdnFox]

Just now, Contrarian said:

Ok, well, you can't hold. Still the same female screams for help. 

You're an insignificant racists drunk who  is so desperate for the attention of his betters that you spend all day chasing me around begging for my attention and approval.  Why did you think anyone cares about what you have to say?

[blackbird]

45 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Still, I've been good, and that's all that matters.

Hate to have to break it to you but there are none that are good.  It is impossible to get into heaven on that basis.

"10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13  Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14  Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15  Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16  Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17  And the way of peace have they not known: 18  There is no fear of God before their eyes. 

19  Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. {guilty…: or, subject to the judgment of God} 20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: "    Romans 3:10-24  King James Bible

[Guest]

Just now, blackbird said:

Hate to have to break it to you but there are none that are good.  It is impossible to get into heaven on that basis.

"10  As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11  There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12  They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13  Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14  Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15  Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16  Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17  And the way of peace have they not known: 18  There is no fear of God before their eyes. 

19  Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. {guilty…: or, subject to the judgment of God} 20  Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21  But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22  Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23  For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24  Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: "    Romans 3:10-24  King James Bible

Well firstly, that's if it's your Heaven.  What if it's actually one of the other religion's Heavens?

Secondly, It is my firm belief that if Heaven exists, all you have to do to get in is to follow the Golden Rule.

I mean, look at all the awful, nasty religious people down through the ages who thought they were reserving their place in Heaven by being mean.  That can't be right.  No God woud be that dumb.

[CdnFox]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

Well firstly, that's if it's your Heaven.  What if it's actually one of the other religion's Heavens?

I know. There's so many it's a consumer's nightmare.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

I know. There's so many it's a consumer's nightmare.

Valhalla sounds nice...

[Zeitgeist]

15 hours ago, bcsapper said:

MAID should be available to anyone who wants it.  You can't tell someone with PTSD that they can't avail themselves of MAID if that is the path they want to take.  You have no right.

I understand PTSD can be a terrible thing to endure, but in the end, a person has the right to make a choice for themselves.

As I said above, I would be more than happy to pay more taxes so people can get the help they need, but if they make the decision anyway, I would support respecting it.

I really can't imagine forcing someone to live if they don't want to.

A state that helps people die and is also the provider of healthcare is a state that creates the the conditions for an expanding state killing apparatus.  It’s already well underway in Canada, which has among the most radically permissive euthanasia policies in the world.

You don’t seem to understand that healthcare is supposed to be about health.  Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath to cure people.  Helping people die who are not dying is the opposite of healthcare, but this expansion of MAID is in keeping with unlimited abortion rights, the increasing legalization of hard drugs, and the catch and release approach of our justice system to violent criminals.

I know you like all this.  This is your Canada.  Enjoy.  I’m hoping to get US citizenship eventually for my family because in my estimation Canada is becoming a radical left wing authoritarian dystopia. Don’t get me wrong though, not all of the US is better than Canada.  I’d move to Alberta but it’s colder than Southern Ontario and it’s also being taken over by woke-green totalitarians.  

Edited May 13, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[CdnFox]

Just now, bcsapper said:

Valhalla sounds nice...

I hear the beer is good.

I kind of like Fólkvangr tho - Freya's version of Valhallah.  Just as rockin' a party and more women from the sounds of it  

[Guest]

Just now, Zeitgeist said:

A state that helps people die and is also the provider of healthcare creates the the conditions for an expanding state killing apparatus.  It’s already well underway.

You don’t seem to understand that that healthcare is supposed to be about health.  Doctors take the Hippocratic Oath to cure people.  Helping people die who are not dying is the opposite of healthcare, but this expansion of MAID is in keeping with unlimited abortion rights, the increasing legalization of hard drugs, and the catch and release approach of our justice system to violent criminals.

I know you like all this.  This is your Canada.  Enjoy.  I’m hoping to get US citizenship eventually for my family because in my estimation Canada is becoming a radical left wing authoritarian dystopia. Don’t get me wrong though, not all of the US is better than Canada.  I’d move to Alberta but it’s colder than Southern Ontario and it’s also being taken over by woke-green totalitarians.  

You don't seem to understand that people have choices.  You don't get to make those choices for them. 

I don't care what the Hippocratic Oath says.  According to Wiki, it states they won't provide an abortion, either.  So they can shove it.

I hope you get US citizenship too.

[CdnFox]

5 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

You don't seem to understand that people have choices.  You don't get to make those choices for them. 

I don't care what the Hippocratic Oath says.  According to Wiki, it states they won't provide an abortion, either.  So they can shove it.

I hope you get US citizenship too.

The problem is you're both right. 

I believe strongly that a state that provides death care as well as health care runs the risk of conflict and we're seeing that already. At the same time - i absolutely  believe in choice.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

The problem is you're both right. 

I believe strongly that a state that provides death care as well as health care runs the risk of conflict and we're seeing that already. At the same time - i absolutely  believe in choice.

Right.  It's not a perfect situation.  It would be good if there were social services such that no-one suffered enough to want to end their lives, and I've stated that I would be willing to pay more in taxes towards that end. 

But I believe the paramount issue is the choice of the individual in question.

[blackbird]

53 minutes ago, bcsapper said:

Well firstly, that's if it's your Heaven.  What if it's actually one of the other religion's Heavens?

Secondly, It is my firm belief that if Heaven exists, all you have to do to get in is to follow the Golden Rule.

I mean, look at all the awful, nasty religious people down through the ages who thought they were reserving their place in Heaven by being mean.  That can't be right.  No God woud be that dumb.

The "Golden Rule" is man-made concept.  The Bible is God's inspired word given to mankind.  Big difference.

Only what God said to mankind counts in the end.

1. The Authority of the Bible | Bible.org

"This briefly is what the Bible claims for itself! It is a Book (which, in some parts, is thousands of years old) which claims to be a record of the actual words of God to men, and of the ways in which He has dealt with men in history. Can such a claim be tested? Yes! In fact, God requires that we test this claim sincerely. About 2500 years ago, God spoke through the prophet Isaiah and challenged unbelievers to apply a very practical test. It is found in the following verses. Please read them carefully:

“Present your argument,” says the Lord. “Produce your evidence,” says Jacob’s king. “Let them produce evidence! Let them tell us what will happen! Tell us about your earlier predictive oracles, so we may examine them and see how they were fulfilled. Or decree for us some future events! Predict how future events will turn out, so we might know you are gods. Yes, do something good or bad, so we might be frightened and in awe. Look, you are nothing, and your accomplishments are nonexistent; the one who chooses to worship you is disgusting.” (Isaiah 41:21-24).

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“I am the Lord! That is my name! I will not share my glory with anyone else, or the praise due me with idols. Look, my earlier predictive oracles have come to pass; now I announce new events. Before they begin to occur, I reveal them to you.” (Isaiah 42:8-9).

This is what the Lord, Israel’s king, says, their protector, the Lord who leads armies: “I am the first and I am the last, there is no God but me. Who is like me? Let him make his claim! Let him announce it and explain it to me—since I established an ancient people—let them announce future events! Don’t panic! Don’t be afraid! Did I not tell you beforehand and decree it? You are my witnesses. Is there any God but me? There is no other protector; I know of none.” (Isaiah 44:6-8).

“Remember what I accomplished in antiquity! Truly I am God, I have no peer; I am God, and there is none like me, who announces the end from the beginning and reveals beforehand what has not yet occurred, who says, ‘My plan will be realized, I will accomplish what I desire,’ who summons an eagle from the east, from a distant land, one who carries out my plan. Yes, I have decreed, yes, I will bring it to pass; I have formulated a plan, yes, I will carry it out” (Isaiah 46:9-11).

These verses clearly teach that the fact of inspiration and the facts of history when taken together will prove whether or not a prophet had written the words of God. One unique feature of the Bible is the vast amount of prophecy or prediction concerning future events it contains. God challenges men to examine these, prophecies to see whether or not they have been fulfilled! For a prediction to be fulfilled in the way and in the time foretold by the prophet is proof that God spoke through the prophet. We will study this in detail in later lessons. This test can be applied to thousands of predictions in the Bible leading to the conclusion that God has spoken. The Bible’s claim to be inspired by the Holy Spirit is the only possible answer to the amazing mystery of the foretelling of the future in accurate detail."

Edited May 13, 2023 by blackbird

[Guest]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

The "Golden Rule" is man-made concept.  The Bible is God's inspired word given to mankind.  Big difference.

Only what God said to mankind counts in the end.

1. The Authority of the Bible | Bible.org

There is no difference whatsoever.  The Bible is man-made concept.  It was written by men who found a way to control others, and then changed to suit other men down through the ages.

I'll see you in Heaven, mate!

We'll have such fun!

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, bcsapper said:

There is no difference whatsoever.  The Bible is man-made concept.  It was written by men who found a way to control others, and then changed to suit other men down through the ages.

I'll see you in Heaven, mate!

We'll have such fun!

What Is the Authority of Scripture, and How Can We Trust It? - Topical Studies (biblestudytools.com)

Your choice what you do.

[Aristides]

Versions of The Golden Rule are common  to all major religions. Including both the Old and the New Testaments.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, blackbird said:

What Is the Authority of Scripture, and How Can We Trust It? - Topical Studies (biblestudytools.com)

Your choice what you do.

Bring chips!

[CITIZEN_2015]

5 hours ago, blackbird said:

Assisted suicide within the MAID program has been legalized in 2016.  If you are not aware of the MAID program, why are you commenting under this topic?  Yes, Bible fundamentalists like myself think it is very wrong.  You don't seem to understand there is a difference between suicide when one kills himself and having a doctor kill him.  That is called MAID.  I already told you suicide is not illegal, but MAID has to be within the legal framework.  Both are wrong and are Satanic.

You sound like you are complaining because you can't have a friend kill you.  You need help man.  Get some counseling.

A man is being charged with criminal offenses now for sending poison in the mail to various people in the world to help them kill themselves.  Of course that is illegal.  We live in a country that still believes it is wrong for someone to kill someone else.  Yet you think that is ok and want it to be totally legal for anyone to kill anyone else at their request?  Wow.  Get help.  Go see a Protestant pastor and read the King James Bible.

I am aware of that and one of the reasons I voted for Trudeau. What I am demanding as my righrs and the right of every citizen in a democratic country is assisted suicide ON DEMAND and UNCONDITIONAL.

Suicide is the last thing in my mind. however, if one day I want that, I would like a professional to help me to legally end it in a painless and organized manner to end while my family and friends are around me. I don't want your bible or your religion or your God to run my life and dictate me how to live my life. No to religions/ Enough harm has been done by religions past 3000 years.

Edited May 13, 2023 by CITIZEN_2015

[Nefarious Banana]

4 hours ago, Contrarian said:

The statement made by the accuser contains a number of manipulative tactics. Here are a few examples:

Personal attacks: The accuser starts off by attacking the person's character, calling them a "racist" and a "drunk." This is an attempt to discredit the person's opinions and make them seem less credible.

Insults: The use of insults like "insignificant" and "desperate for attention" are designed to undermine the person's confidence and self-esteem.

Gaslighting: The accuser is trying to make the person doubt themselves by implying that their opinions are not worth listening to and that they are only seeking approval.

Invalidating: The accuser is attempting to invalidate the person's feelings and opinions by asking "Why did you think anyone cares about what you have to say?" This is a way of belittling the person and making them feel like their thoughts are not valid.

So, what's your point?

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

I am aware of that and one of the reasons I voted for Trudeau. What I am demanding as my righrs and the right of every citizen in a democratic country is assisted suicide ON DEMAND and UNCONDITIONAL.

 

If you voted for trudeau hoping to get more rights, you backed the wrong horse.

the courts granted more rights -trudeau fought that.

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Contrarian said:

I gave it already:

 

He was talkign about your drunken rant.  I think the point was probably that you were drunk. that's really all you bring to the table.

You're a drunk left wing jack booted thug. And people have noticed.

[CdnFox]

Just now, Contrarian said:

Asking for help here too? Going everywhere to seek help. Insecure little man you are.

No - giving help.  I was explaining to you what was happening - i know you're too drunk to figure it out And  too stupid when you're sober. So I was kind and stepped in

As the guy who follows me around like a puppy i'd say you're the one asking for help LOLOL

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

Not a puppy,

Totally a puppy

You run around behind me begging for attention and occasionally pooping yourself   - And yeah you totally make me laugh, I suspect you make many others laugh as well   The ones you don't disgust with your "rue jew' comments

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, CITIZEN_2015 said:

No to religions/ Enough harm has been done by religions past 3000 years.

I think you have a false or no understanding of history.   It is far more complex than you make it sound.

"Atheists often point to the religious wars as an example of how religion is almost always the cause of war. But the wars of religion in Europe were due to far more than religious differences. Cultural, ethnic, and political issues likely would have eventually caused these wars even if religion was not involved. With that said, it cannot be denied that both Catholics and Protestants did some truly atrocious things to each other in that time period. Religion, though, cannot be blamed when its adherents do things that are diametrically opposed to its core teachings. Just like the “Christian” Crusades were absolutely in contradiction to the teachings of the Christian faith, so were the wars of religion in direct violation of the teachings of Scripture and Christian values."

What were the religious wars / wars of religion? | GotQuestions.org

The worst wars in history, WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with religion.  The Communist revolutions in Russia and China killed approximately 100 million people.  Again nothing to do with religion.  The Communists were supposedly atheists but had not morals.

Wars fought that claimed they were fighting for God were actually not following the Bible.  Jesus never taught to use force to spread his message.  The Bible teaches love thy neighbour.  So how can the Bible be the cause of wars.  Obviously it isn't.  War is basically caused by the corrupt fallen human heart, which the Bible teaches about.  There is much evil in the world and always has been.  But this is not the fault of the true followers of Christ and the Bible.

Islam is another story.  We know it was spread by the sword.  It is often sarcastically called the "religion of peace".  We see how it operates in Islamic republics where people are executed for blasphemy.   In western countries, people often blaspheme Christianity and take the Lord's name in vain with profane language but there are no actions taken against that

But the underlying cause of all evil, wars, crime, etc. is the fallen human heart, which the Bible describes.  It also tells the solution to that problem in the gospel of John and Paul's epistle to the Romans.

Edited May 14, 2023 by blackbird

[CdnFox]

37 minutes ago, Contrarian said:

3 smiley faces and using "many others" desperate for someone to come for help. also "pooping" terms are coming out.

you're not just a puppy, you're a parrot!  LOL - fetch little guy fetch!   

[Army Guy]

On 5/12/2023 at 10:37 PM, bcsapper said:

MAID should be available to anyone who wants it.  You can't tell someone with PTSD that they can't avail themselves of MAID if that is the path they want to take.  You have no right.

I understand PTSD can be a terrible thing to endure, but in the end, a person has the right to make a choice for themselves.

As I said above, I would be more than happy to pay more taxes so people can get the help they need, but if they make the decision anyway, I would support respecting it.

I really can't imagine forcing someone to live if they don't want to.

I have no right, I think most lives are worth the extra effort, I thought there was a lawful order that stated we must protect those incapable of making a good choice, hence why do we have the insanity plea for criminals charges if you can't be held responsible for a crime because you lack a basic understanding of right and wrong. Why do we feel the need to think they can make a reasonable choice when it comes to life or death? 

Is there a cut-off, and do we allow those that are handicapped mentally to decide? 

Would you hold the same belief if it was a close family member? 

I'm glad maid was not in play when i was struggling with PTSD, as the only thing I wanted at the time was to end all the pain and nightmares. every day new cures and treatments are coming out, nobody knows what the future holds, once your dead that's it, you're gone forever. I understand if you're in constant physical pain, and are of sound mind... but opening it up to everyone, I don't agree with...

Time and treatment have saved lots of people,  yes it is a rough trip, and after several years of treatment, many have a whole new outlook on life....

[CdnFox]

12 minutes ago, Army Guy said:

Would you hold the same belief if it was a close family member? 

Side note - my mom has made it VERY clear that if she's ever mentally damaged or in a coma - or if she ever comes to us and says 'it's time' that we are to do what we need to in order help her obain such relief medically without putting up resistance other than a few 'are you sure's'.    In short, to help her die when she wants to, and i absolutely would do that without a seconds hesitation if and when the time comes.  In fairness some days she makes that decision easier than others   But still -  i would do it and tho it may break my hard to see her go i'd consider it an act of love in the circumstances.  I'd want the same for me in similar situations.