Does it make sense to continue funding Ukraine?

[Novemberishere]

It looks like a big black hole to me.

We're giving them money, they're putting it in their pockets and what?

Quote

Despite enormous Western aid, the projected national debt at the end of 2023 will be about $190 billion (102% of the country’s GDP). The World Bank estimates that by the end of 2023, 55% of Ukrainians will be living in poverty and unemployment is expected to reach 30%.

Ukrainian people are dreaming about the counteroffensive but there's May already and their officials are just feeding citizens with false promises.

So here's my question - is it rational to fund Ukraine?

[August1991]

I am a single voice here. This war could have been avoided.

So many people have been killed, displaced. Ukrainians, Russians - there is no difference.

====

This war could have been avoided.

 

[August1991]

“Ukraine’s fight for freedom and against Russian aggression is our fight. It is not just their fight,” she said. “The best way to end Putin’s aggression is for Ukraine to win.”

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/hillary-clinton-urges-canada-to-keep-up-ukraine-support

She's wrong. Dead wrong. Foolishly wrong.

We cannot and should not attempt regime change in Russia.

====

As much as I disagree with Putin, I prefer to live in a multi-polar world where there are counter-weights to people like Hillary Clinton and George Bush Jnr.

 

[August1991]

Heck, I feel that Clinton or Bush will than say: "Speak white".

=====

John Cleese said that Americans do not understand irony.

As a Canadian, I admire America. Its Constitution is a remarkable document - and imagine, some 200 years later, it still exists. (Even the Chinese must respect that...  ) 

But Cleese is correct. Americans lack a self-awareness. Perhaps for the good of us all.

[August1991]

Last point.

Kennedy and Reagan won: the Wall is no more.

Thank God, we ordinary people are now free to travel.

 

[Nationalist]

NO!!!

[Perspektiv]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:27 AM, Novemberishere said:

So here's my question - is it rational to fund Ukraine?

I don't think it is. 

As a prior poster mentioned, this war could have been avoided. 

I don't understand why we should be footing the bulk of the cost for it.

Immense pressure should be put on both sides to negotiate a cease fire via a neutral third party for each.

Some would say giving an inch gives away freedom.

Russia cannot lose face and leave. An exit ramp must be provided.

Nobody will win.

Ukraine must accept some land to be given, Russia must accept Ukraine joining NATO. 

[Moonbox]

On 5/2/2023 at 4:27 AM, Novemberishere said:

It looks like a big black hole to me.

We're giving them money, they're putting it in their pockets and what?

Ukrainian people are dreaming about the counteroffensive but there's May already and their officials are just feeding citizens with false promises.

So here's my question - is it rational to fund Ukraine?

Oh look - another AI chat bot / copypasta troll farmer.   

It's always funny how people try to respond to this stuff.  Dude joined the forum in October, has 5 posts so far (all on the same topic), and here you guys are pretending (or duped into thinking) he's starting a new topic and conversation.  ?

Edited May 9, 2023 by Moonbox

[Moonbox]

Give it a rest my man.  

[August1991]

45 minutes ago, Moonbox said:

Give it a rest my man.  

Churchill wrote this:

In War: Resolution

In Defeat: Defiance

In Victory: Magnanimity

In Peace: Good Will

====

In December 1989, we won the Cold War.

[August1991]

Some English-Canadians got involved in a European War in 1914. We have monuments in our cities.

IMHO, Europeans are violent people - they may love tramways - but every so often, they kill each other.

Unlike Europeans, we in Canada have no reason to fight people - whether in China or Russia.

Edited May 11, 2023 by August1991

[Moonbox]

I almost never have any idea what you're talking about.  

[August1991]

On 5/11/2023 at 12:25 AM, Moonbox said:

I almost never have any idea what you're talking about.  

Moonbox,

This is a tragic civil war in Eastern Europe. We have no reason to be involved except to stop the fighting/killing,

I am thankful that Chretien kept us out of the Iraq war.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by August1991

[August1991]

Moonbox,

Here's the long version.

Americans lack self-awareness. Without understanding irony, Americans think they can change the world. Bush Jnr invades Iraq. Kennedy organises an assassination in Saigon or Kissinger a coup in Santiago. Americans now think they can impose regime change in Russia. They can make gay marriage universal.

During the Cold War, to defeat the Soviets, I can understand such measures. The Vietnam "War" was a battle in a Cold War.

But at present, this American misunderstanding of irony is a threat to the civilised world.

We live in a multi-polar world. There are counter-weights.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by August1991

[Moonbox]

5 hours ago, August1991 said:

During the Cold War, to defeat the Soviets, I can understand such measures. The Vietnam "War" was a battle in a Cold War.

What's the difference?  I could see the point you were trying to make, until you said this.  What about the Cold War changed the moralization?    

Thank you for speaking normally, but your argument sounds like a lot of whataboutism.  

Edited May 13, 2023 by Moonbox

[TreeBeard]

On 5/13/2023 at 1:48 AM, August1991 said:

civil war

A country invading is not a civil war.  Why do you feel the need to defend Russian aggression?

[August1991]

On 5/13/2023 at 10:21 AM, Moonbox said:

What's the difference?  I could see the point you were trying to make, until you said this.  What about the Cold War changed the moralization?    

Thank you for speaking normally, but your argument sounds like a lot of whataboutism.  

NATO made sense until 1989, 1991 or even to the mid-1990s.

The bombing of Belgrade?

====

Nowadays, I think Canada should quit NATO.

[August1991]

I think Kubrick said that big countries act like gangsters and small countries like prostitutes.

=====

Finland was once an independent State.

Estonia was once a place.

[Moonbox]

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

NATO made sense until 1989, 1991 or even to the mid-1990s.

While reasonable people across Europe have concluded the opposite in the face of Russian aggression, which was the whole raison d'etre of NATO in the first place.  

10 hours ago, August1991 said:

Nowadays, I think Canada should quit NATO.

You're free to think whatever you like, but you've yet to make a convincing argument for it.  

[SpankyMcFarland]

Yes, of course it does. If not, Putin would simply continue his war of aggression farther into Europe (by more devious means) and the global forces of authoritarianism would receive another boost they don’t need at the moment. This is not at all like World War One. A closer analogy would be to imagine Austria attempting to take back Czechoslovakia in the Twenties. We in the West must believe that freedom, national self-determination, is worth preserving. Otherwise, we should just give up and let the thugs take over. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[Aristides]

On 5/15/2023 at 9:54 PM, August1991 said:

I think Kubrick said that big countries act like gangsters and small countries like prostitutes.

=====

Finland was once an independent State.

Estonia was once a place.

Both were invaded by the Soviet Union and Estonia was under the Soviet boot for 50 years. Why do you think they are determined not to be again?

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 5/13/2023 at 9:48 AM, August1991 said:

Moonbox,

This is a tragic civil war in Eastern Europe. We have no reason to be involved except to stop the fighting/killing,

I am thankful that Chretien kept us out of the Iraq war.

 

Chrétien kept us from invading a country. You want to stop us supporting a country that has been invaded. 

[SpankyMcFarland]

On 5/11/2023 at 4:28 AM, August1991 said:

Some English-Canadians got involved in a European War in 1914. We have monuments in our cities.

IMHO, Europeans are violent people - they may love tramways - but every so often, they kill each other.

Unlike Europeans, we in Canada have no reason to fight people - whether in China or Russia.

There’s nothing especially pacific about us. In Canada, the European invaders were once a long way from trouble and we could tell ourselves nice stories. Now we aren’t. Russia and China are no longer faraway countries that we can ignore. Russia directly threatens our northern border and no Canadian should require lessons about the PRC’s intentions at this stage. 

Edited May 18, 2023 by SpankyMcFarland

[August1991]

On 5/17/2023 at 9:08 PM, SpankyMcFarland said:

Chrétien kept us from invading a country. You want to stop us supporting a country that has been invaded. 

Bush Snr stopped at the border.

=====

Clinton bombed Serbia and Bush Jnr invaded Iraq.

[August1991]

On 5/16/2023 at 11:28 AM, Moonbox said:

While reasonable people across Europe have concluded the opposite in the face of Russian aggression, which was the whole raison d'etre of NATO in the first place.

....  

Compared to American "aggression" since 1991?

=====

We in the West won the Cold War.