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Robert Kennedy Jnr 2024


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7 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Get real.  He isn’t even anti-vax.  Try again.

That is some crazy revisionism. He has lied for years about about crucial vaccines causing autism, when there is no link. A scientist like Wakefield who makes those fake claims in a bid for fame end up disgraced and destroyed, because science has mechanisms for self correction. But there's no consequence for a dilettante lawyer peddling medical misinformation. 

But for some people are dumb enough to follow the medical advice of a dilettante lawyer and kids die sad a result. They bear the consequence.

52 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Rolling Stone thought he was great and had a big article on his work.  So did 60 Minutes a few years ago, until….suddenly both organizations pulled the stories.  Both organizations are heavily reliant on advertising from pharmaceuticals. If you don’t believe in debate, I can’t help you. The DNC won’t let Biden debate RFK Jr. because they know Biden will lose. Having discussions about topics used to be celebrated.  Wake up.  

That's what happens when someone is debunked as a total conspiracy nut crackpot: reputable media chooses not to participate if propagating misinformation.

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1 hour ago, Hodad said:

That is some crazy revisionism. He has lied for years about about crucial vaccines causing autism, when there is no link. A scientist like Wakefield who makes those fake claims in a bid for fame end up disgraced and destroyed, because science has mechanisms for self correction. But there's no consequence for a dilettante lawyer peddling medical misinformation. 

But for some people are dumb enough to follow the medical advice of a dilettante lawyer and kids die sad a result. They bear the consequence.

That's what happens when someone is debunked as a total conspiracy nut crackpot: reputable media chooses not to participate if propagating misinformation.

So weak to lean on the “anti-vax conspiracy nut” routine to silence legitimate concerns and questioning.  Only unquestioning dupes play those games and most people aren’t accepting that pitch anymore. The reality is that you don’t want open discussion because you know Biden would lose in a debate with RFK Jr.  Your only defence is suppression and censorship.  

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49 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So weak to lean on the “anti-vax conspiracy nut” routine to silence legitimate concerns and questioning.  Only unquestioning dupes play those games and most people aren’t accepting that pitch anymore. The reality is that you don’t want open discussion because you know Biden would lose in a debate with RFK Jr.  Your only defence is suppression and censorship.  

Lol. Yes, I've been "duped" by the entirety of the medical and scientific communities, who have thoroughly denounced Kennedy's conspiracy nonsense. 

You, on the other hand. have apparently been duped by a privilege dilettante attorney playacting at science. 

I have zero interest in watching Kennedy debate anyone. He's lied for decades and continues to do so. He doesn't deserve a platform for his misinformation. He's squandered any goodwill his father and uncle created and wasted his privilege and celebrity chasing cheap fame with the conspiracy crowd. 

His candidacy is not being taken seriously by anyone who matters. He's a bad joke. 

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11 minutes ago, Hodad said:

Lol. Yes, I've been "duped" by the entirety of the medical and scientific communities, who have thoroughly denounced Kennedy's conspiracy nonsense. 

You, on the other hand. have apparently been duped by a privilege dilettante attorney playacting at science. 

I have zero interest in watching Kennedy debate anyone. He's lied for decades and continues to do so. He doesn't deserve a platform for his misinformation. He's squandered any goodwill his father and uncle created and wasted his privilege and celebrity chasing cheap fame with the conspiracy crowd. 

His candidacy is not being taken seriously by anyone who matters. He's a bad joke. 

So you don’t think that a candidate with the support of 20% of Democrats who has a higher likability rating than the Democrat president and the leading Republican candidate should be able to debate Biden in a Democrat debate?  That’s all I need to know.  

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27 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

So you don’t think that a candidate with the support of 20% of Democrats who has a higher likability rating than the Democrat president and the leading Republican candidate should be able to debate Biden in a Democrat debate?  That’s all I need to know.  

A miniature horse with the last name "Kennedy" should be able to break 20% in early polls, but I don't think RFK Jr. is even polling that high. His last name is, as it has been his whole life, his greatest asset. The more he speaks publicly and people actually get to know him the more support he'll lose.

No one who knows who he is is taking him seriously, and even discussing how we shouldn't take him seriously is taking him too seriously. 

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1 hour ago, Hodad said:

Lol. Yes, I've been "duped" by the entirety of the medical and scientific communities, who have thoroughly denounced Kennedy's conspiracy nonsense. 

You, on the other hand. have apparently been duped by a privilege dilettante attorney playacting at science. 

I have zero interest in watching Kennedy debate anyone. He's lied for decades and continues to do so. He doesn't deserve a platform for his misinformation. He's squandered any goodwill his father and uncle created and wasted his privilege and celebrity chasing cheap fame with the conspiracy crowd. 

His candidacy is not being taken seriously by anyone who matters. He's a bad joke. 

OOPS...looks like the joke's on you.

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19 minutes ago, Hodad said:

A miniature horse with the last name "Kennedy" should be able to break 20% in early polls, but I don't think RFK Jr. is even polling that high. His last name is, as it has been his whole life, his greatest asset. The more he speaks publicly and people actually get to know him the more support he'll lose.

No one who knows who he is is taking him seriously, and even discussing how we shouldn't take him seriously is taking him too seriously. 

You didn’t answer my question.  If you don’t think he articulates policies that Americans would support, then you should be content to let him speak for himself.  

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5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

Rolling Stone thought he was great and had a big article on his work.  So did 60 Minutes a few years ago, until….suddenly both organizations pulled the stories.  Both organizations are heavily reliant on advertising from pharmaceuticals. If you don’t believe in debate, I can’t help you. The DNC won’t let Biden debate RFK Jr. because they know Biden will lose. Having discussions about topics used to be celebrated.  Wake up.  

They won't let Biden debate because it would ONLY lend RFK jr's whacky ideas credibility NOT DESERVED.

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7 minutes ago, robosmith said:

They won't let Biden debate because it would ONLY lend RFK jr's whacky ideas credibility NOT DESERVED.

Oh yeah, are you and the handful of DNC committee members the arbiters of credibility?  I think you lack credibility.  Do you get to think for everyone?  Let the American people decide, or do you not trust the American people to think for themselves?

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3 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Oh yeah, are you and the handful of DNC committee members the arbiters of credibility?  I think you lack credibility.  Do you get to think for everyone?  Let the American people decide, or do you not trust the American people to think for themselves?

No, I do NOT trust "the American people" when it comes to matters of science.

Any debate between pols about science is just ripe for demagoguery and means NOTHING.  

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Just now, robosmith said:

No, I do NOT trust "the American people" when it comes to matters of science.

Any debate between pols about science is just ripe for demagoguery and means NOTHING.  

Scientists are people and it’s people who hire them, read their research, and implement scientifically backed initiatives.

Are you a bot?

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9 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

Scientists are people and it’s people who hire them, read their research, and implement scientifically backed initiatives.

Are you a bot?

Are you? You're not making any sense.

Scientists are EXPERTS about science, unlike "the American people" you "trust" in matters of science. 

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29 minutes ago, robosmith said:

Are you? You're not making any sense.

Scientists are EXPERTS about science, unlike "the American people" you "trust" in matters of science. 

You’re a fascist basically.  Scientists are people and governments are elected by the people for the people in a democracy.  Science can be used for good or ill.  You need ethics along with science or else you can get very efficient, science-based mass murder.  Ask the developers of Zyclon B.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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16 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

You’re a fascist basically.  Scientists are people and governments are elected by the people for the people in a democracy.  Science can be used for good or ill.  You need ethics along with science or else you can get very efficient, science-based mass murder.  Ask the developers of Zyclon B.  

Scientists have peer reviewed journals to protect us from the unethical claims made by scientists.

"The American people" have NO OTHER understanding of scientific issues than that provided by SCIENTISTS.

The ONLY valid debate about scientific issues is that done by SCIENTISTS.

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1 hour ago, robosmith said:

Scientists have peer reviewed journals to protect us from the unethical claims made by scientists.

"The American people" have NO OTHER understanding of scientific issues than that provided by SCIENTISTS.

The ONLY valid debate about scientific issues is that done by SCIENTISTS.

The American people know enough to distinguish between reputable/credentialed and non-reputable/non-credentialed scientists.  It’s why we have professional associations and governing bodies. They are able to select politicians who best serve their interests.  You don’t get to impose your views without a mandate from the people in a democracy.

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17 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The American people know enough to distinguish between reputable/credentialed and non-reputable/non-credentialed scientists.  It’s why we have professional associations and governing bodies. They are able to select politicians who best serve their interests.  You don’t get to impose your views without a mandate from the people in a democracy.

Unfortunately people like RFK, Kovid Konspiracy Kooks and for that matter the majority of Republicans don’t know enough to make that distinction.

Those people, who are approximately half the American population, get most of their information from strangers/bots on the internet and social media. They are easily fooled by fake news that specifically tells them that the “reputable/credentialed scientists” and the “professional associations and governing bodies” you mention  are all part of some vast elite socialist conspiracy. People like that are not equipped to assess science or the credibility of scientists. 

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It’s the elitist contempt for common people and their values that has damaged our democracy, possibly beyond repair.  RFK Jr. Isn’t an anti-vaxer.  He does raise important questions about the rise in a slew of illnesses that are likely related to chemicals in the environment and some treatments/meds.  Look at respiratory diseases and the early onset of puberty in girls. It’s important for us to be able to question.  The liberal MSM is emphasizing one piece of RFK’s past work in order to discredit him and protect Biden.  It will likely backfire, as people can access quite a bit of information outside the MSM filters.  They’re backing a losing horse, so let them.  

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58 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

The American people know enough to distinguish between reputable/credentialed and non-reputable/non-credentialed scientists.  

ONLY based on input from OTHER scientists. RFK Jr is NEITHER reputable nor credentialed as a scientist.

He can at best represent the views of scientists who MAY BE reputable/credentialed.

He MAY misrepresent their views, reputations and/or credentials in a "debate," with other politicians.

58 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

 

It’s why we have professional associations and governing bodies.

Governing bodies composed of SCIENTISTS.

 

58 minutes ago, Zeitgeist said:

They are able to select politicians who best serve their interests.  You don’t get to impose your views without a mandate from the people in a democracy.

I am NOT "imposing" anything; I am making arguments with words pointing out FACTS.

Most of the American public does not have the qualifications for assessing science that I have with a Master of Science degree. Even that is inferior to actual EXPERIENCE and degrees targeted specifically to biomedical educations regarding the issues of vaccinations.

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5 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

You didn’t answer my question.  If you don’t think he articulates policies that Americans would support, then you should be content to let him speak for himself.  

This isn't a direct enough answer?

"I have zero interest in watching Kennedy debate anyone. He's lied for decades and continues to do so. He doesn't deserve a platform for his misinformation."

Edited by Hodad
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2 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

It’s the elitist contempt for common people and their values that has damaged our democracy, possibly beyond repair.  RFK Jr. Isn’t an anti-vaxer.  He does raise important questions about the rise in a slew of illnesses that are likely related to chemicals in the environment and some treatments/meds.  Look at respiratory diseases and the early onset of puberty in girls. It’s important for us to be able to question.  The liberal MSM is emphasizing one piece of RFK’s past work in order to discredit him and protect Biden.  It will likely backfire, as people can access quite a bit of information outside the MSM filters.  They’re backing a losing horse, so let them.  

RFK Jr isn’t an elite?  Thats mew

By “past work” you must mean “recent and ongoing behaviour”

Many people raise the same concerns as RFK about health trends without being a kook. Funny that Republicans have ling refuses to consider that air pollution such as coal fired power plants or second hand smoke might be linked to respiratory illness or the nearly infinite numbers of chemicals, hormones and drugs that are now permitted in food supply. If anything chances are all the Bovine Growth Hormone that the US allows in the dairy supply has a lot more to do with early puberty than decades-old measles vax but Republicans don’t want anyone questioning their agri-business darlings like Monsanto. 

The real damage to democracy was done by corporatist neoliberal policies enacted by BOTH parties for over 4 decades and loudly cheered by Republicans as unquestionable capitalism.  That said it’s not elitist to say if you’re not a pilot you’re not allowed to fly the plane and if didn’t go to medical school we can safely say you don’t know more about medicine than the medical professional and regulatory bodies you first mentioned.
 

The average citizen also doesn’t have the time to comprehensively review advanced medical research, which is a full-time job for experts with an advanced education in the field, not a part-time job for untrained amateurs. So it’s obvious that RFK’s followers haven’t thoroughly vetted his credentials and those of the people who disagree with him nor are they independently auditing his research and to believe him of the general consensus requires one to subscribe to a vast conspiracy ideology. 

Edited by BeaverFever
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18 hours ago, Zeitgeist said:

I believe in keeping an open mind, looking at studies, and not letting one media perspective that’s very heavily funded by pharmaceuticals be the only authority, especially with rushed vaccines that haven’t proven as effective as promised and haven’t been around long. 

What large, peer-reviewed studies are you talking about?

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Kennedy’s anti-vax ranting is not only absurdly wrong but also dangerous. Parents could easily believe this man, given his family’s reputation, and fail to protect their children from deadly diseases. Thus it’s not enough to dispute what he says; he should be ignored and denied any public platform at all. Any network or show that has him on runs the risk of giving his allegations credence they certainly do not deserve. As Mr. Hitchens put it:

“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.” 


 

 

Edited by SpankyMcFarland
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7 hours ago, BeaverFever said:

RFK Jr isn’t an elite?  Thats mew

By “past work” you must mean “recent and ongoing behaviour”

Many people raise the same concerns as RFK about health trends without being a kook. Funny that Republicans have ling refuses to consider that air pollution such as coal fired power plants or second hand smoke might be linked to respiratory illness or the nearly infinite numbers of chemicals, hormones and drugs that are now permitted in food supply. If anything chances are all the Bovine Growth Hormone that the US allows in the dairy supply has a lot more to do with early puberty than decades-old measles vax but Republicans don’t want anyone questioning their agri-business darlings like Monsanto. 

The real damage to democracy was done by corporatist neoliberal policies enacted by BOTH parties for over 4 decades and loudly cheered by Republicans as unquestionable capitalism.  That said it’s not elitist to say if you’re not a pilot you’re not allowed to fly the plane and if didn’t go to medical school we can safely say you don’t know more about medicine than the medical professional and regulatory bodies you first mentioned.
 

The average citizen also doesn’t have the time to comprehensively review advanced medical research, which is a full-time job for experts with an advanced education in the field, not a part-time job for untrained amateurs. So it’s obvious that RFK’s followers haven’t thoroughly vetted his credentials and those of the people who disagree with him nor are they independently auditing his research and to believe him of the general consensus requires one to subscribe to a vast conspiracy ideology. 

I fought hard to eliminate coal power in my province, successfully.  Kennedy is a proven environmentalist. You’re coming at him for reasons that only bolster his candidacy.  I could get into many specifics on these issues much as Kennedy does.  The estrogen is also coming from plastics by the way.

The bottom line is that candidates with significant support deserve to discuss and debate with other candidates.  People from all backgrounds, including scientists, will decide who has the most compelling arguments.

Many people have some science background and most people have post-secondary education.  They’re quite capable of making reasonable judgments.  

Edited by Zeitgeist
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