Quebec legislature moves to ban prayer in schools

[blackbird]

A 2008 report said the crucifix which has been hanging in the legislature since 1936 should be removed. But the Quebec government refused to implement its findings.

Now the Quebec legislature is moving to ban prayers in Quebec schools saying they must stand for secularism.

Only 'silent' praying allowed in Quebec schools as province moves to ban prayer rooms (msn.com)

Since they refuse to remove the crucifix from the wall of the legislature, does this sound hypocritical?

Of course it is.   Because it is hypocritical.  A bunch of Papists telling schools they can't have a room to pray in while holding up the crucifix in the legislature.  Obviously do what I say, not as I do.

Edited April 6, 2023 by blackbird

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, blackbird said:

A 2008 report said the crucifix which has been hanging in the legislature since 1936 should be removed. But the Quebec government refused to implement its findings.

Now the Quebec legislature is moving to ban prayers in Quebec schools saying they must stand for secularism.

Only 'silent' praying allowed in Quebec schools as province moves to ban prayer rooms (msn.com)

Since they refuse to remove the crucifix from the wall of the legislature, does this sound hypocritical?

Of course it is.   Because it is hypocritical.  A bunch of Papists telling schools they can't have a room to pray in while holding up the crucifix in the legislature.  Obviously do what I say, not as I do.

You're right.  They should get rid of the crucifix in the legislature.

[CdnFox]

6 hours ago, blackbird said:

Since they refuse to remove the crucifix from the wall of the legislature, does this sound hypocritical?

Not really. One is a learning institution with children and it's not appropriate to push a religion on them. The other is a gov't workplace serving a country that by it's own documents was founded on Christianity,

So not hypocrisy. But - i do think they should send a more clear message and remove the religious symbols from the leg as well.

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, blackbird said:

A 2008 report said the crucifix which has been hanging in the legislature since 1936 should be removed. But the Quebec government refused to implement its findings.

Now the Quebec legislature is moving to ban prayers in Quebec schools saying they must stand for secularism.

Only 'silent' praying allowed in Quebec schools as province moves to ban prayer rooms (msn.com)

Since they refuse to remove the crucifix from the wall of the legislature, does this sound hypocritical?

Of course it is.   Because it is hypocritical.  A bunch of Papists telling schools they can't have a room to pray in while holding up the crucifix in the legislature.  Obviously do what I say, not as I do.

I don't think prayer has a place in a public school, personally. You send your kids to public school, and to me, religion has no business in what is being taught to your children.

Want prayer, go to a catholic school system.

[Perspektiv]

I think your thread title is misleading. You should add "public" schools, or its essentially sensationalism. You're withholding vital information, in order to make things sound a lot worse than it is.

[blackbird]

1 hour ago, CdnFox said:

Not really. One is a learning institution with children and it's not appropriate to push a religion on them.

You are assuming this is pushing religion on them, when in fact that is not the case at all.  

The article says "Bernard Drainville told reporters in Quebec City he has learned of at least two Montreal-area schools that have permitted students to gather for prayer."

So these two schools have designated a room that can be used for prayer by students who voluntarily wish to use it for that.  Says nothing about it being part of the curriculum or anyone being instructed to go there to pray.  It is simply allowing people who want a place to pray to have a room to do that.  Seems reasonable and in accordance with freedom of religion.  It doesn't even specify what religion a person has to be to use the room.  Could be for anyone of any religion to use simply to have a room to pray in.  Don't see the problem with that.

The hypocrisy is the members of the legislature wanting to remove a room for voluntary prayer from the school while they maintain a crucifix, a religious symbol on the wall in the legislature and claim they want secularism in a public school.  Does sound hypocritical.  

[blackbird]

31 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I don't think prayer has a place in a public school, personally.

All they were doing is providing an unused room at certain times for students who want a designated place they can pray in.  This has nothing to do with the school curriculum and is just a room that students can use for that purpose if they so choose.  People still have freedom of religion and if they wish to pray that is their right.

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

You are assuming this is pushing religion on them, when in fact that is not the case at all.  

 

It is pushing religion, not appropriate for a public school.

Not hypocritical either, Sorry . But - it is an inconstancy, they should take down the crosses too. There is value in a consistent message

[blackbird]

32 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

You're withholding vital information, in order to make things sound a lot worse than it is.

NO I'm not.  It says in the article in the first sentence "Quebec's education minister said Wednesday it will soon be forbidden to have prayer rooms in the province's public schools."

There was no intention to without information.  You are making up false accusations.  Of course it is a public school.  If it was a private religious schools, they could not ban prayer rooms anyway.  

[CdnFox]

3 minutes ago, blackbird said:

All they were doing is providing an unused room at certain times for students who want a designated place they can pray in.  This has nothing to do with the school curriculum and is just a room that students can use for that purpose if they so choose.  People still have freedom of religion and if they wish to pray that is their right.

They can pray quietly to themselves wherever they are then. School is no place for religion and if you disagree there ARE religious schools which you can attend.  I'm sure god will forgive them if they wait to pray at home.

[Perspektiv]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

It says in the article

Yet doesn't in your subject line. You're deliberately withholding information. I say deliberately, as you've just admitted to knowingly doing it. 

Public schools shouldn't be a space that enforces religious beliefs. I don't see the issue in banning prayer in school.

Again. Want to pray, go to a catholic school.

[blackbird]

1 minute ago, CdnFox said:

They can pray quietly to themselves wherever they are then. School is no place for religion and if you disagree there ARE religious schools which you can attend.  I'm sure god will forgive them if they wait to pray at home.

A voluntary prayer room is not pushing religion on people.  It is simply respecting students right to their freedom of religion if they so choose.  

Banning them from having a prayer room for voluntary use is Marxist or Communist ideology or social engineering.  It is against freedom and human rights.  There is no excuse for it.

[blackbird]

Just now, Perspektiv said:

Yet doesn't in your subject line. You're deliberately withholding information. I say deliberately, as you've just admitted to knowingly doing it. 

Public schools shouldn't be a space that enforces religious beliefs. I don't see the issue in banning prayer in school.

Again. Want to pray, go to a catholic school.

You are lying.  Since it is the minister of Education talking, it is obviously talking about public schools.

Banning a voluntary prayer room is Communism.  Denial of freedom of choice and freedom of religion which are human rights.

[Perspektiv]

8 minutes ago, blackbird said:

People still have freedom of religion and if they wish to pray that is their right.

I just don't understand how your article is outrageous. Send your kids to a school where they can pray.

I send a kid to a public school so they can focus on education. 

 

[blackbird]

Just now, Perspektiv said:

I just don't understand how your article is outrageous. Send your kids to a school where they can pray.

I send a kid to a public school so they can focus on education. 

 

That's fine.  It's all about free choice.  This is talking about something outside the regular classes and outside the school curriculum.  Students decide whether they want to use the room themselves on their own time.  This sounds like government over reach, or authoritarianism/Communism.  

[Perspektiv]

1 minute ago, blackbird said:

it is obviously talking about public schools

So why didn't you put it in your title? Irrelevant? 

How am I lying?

2 minutes ago, blackbird said:

it is obviously

Obviously to you. Not to all posters reading your thread. Withholding info is used by news, to get eyes reading the story. Its done in poor taste, as like you stated:

9 minutes ago, blackbird said:

It says in the article in the first sentence "Quebec's education minister said Wednesday it will soon be forbidden to have prayer rooms in the province's public schools."

They would have to click your story, to see this, after reading your posted article. Its clickbait. 

You don't have to agree, either. 

Its a free country.

5 minutes ago, blackbird said:

Denial of freedom of choice and freedom of religion which are human rights.

You're in a school. Schools have dress codes. Behavior codes. You're eluding to society. In school, you are there to learn. 

Want to pray? Go to a catholic school.

[blackbird]

The Minister or government are probably a bunch of atheistic secular humanists.  When they use the word secularism as something they believe they need to impose, then it becomes government imposing their own ideology on students.  

[blackbird]

2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Want to pray? Go to a catholic school.

No, a person can go to a private Protestant school which is far better.  Catholic schools teach Romanism, not the Bible.

People can also pray without a prayer room which is what the Education minister said and maybe some will.   But he is pushing his own secular humanist ideology on the public school system.  Secular humanist pretend that they are not pushing religion, but secular humanism is a kind of religion in and of itself.  It is the religion of anti-religion which is a feature of Communism ideology.

[blackbird]

6 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

In school, you are there to learn. 

Of course and people have their own interests such as sports, extra curricular activities.  That is the student's choice what they do outside the regular classes.

[blackbird]

There is at least one school in Ottawa, Ontario that designates a prayer room for Muslim students and several in the U.S.  for Muslims.

Edited April 6, 2023 by blackbird

[blackbird]

35 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Its clickbait.

Actually, I'm sorry for saying it was a lie.  A bit too harsh.  But I think you probably really think I was trying to mislead.  Really, I never even thought of saying in the title it was public schools.   When I create a title, I try to make them short because I believe short titles attract more interest than long sentences for titles.  

I just thought of something else.   At least one prayer room for Muslims was created in Ottawa.  The claimed reason is because Muslims pray five times a day and they like to lay a carpet out and kneel on the carpet.  That can't be permitted to do that just anywhere in the hallways or wherever.  So they designated a certain room for Muslims to pray in.

That might be what was happening in Quebec schools.  Muslims might be demanding prayer rooms in Quebec.

I don't think Christians are into praying on carpets five times a day like Muslims.  So that might be the issue in Quebec now that I think of it.  A prayer room just for Muslims would be discrimination though.  If there is going to be prayer rooms, they should be available for anyone, maybe at certain times for different religions.  I don't know if anyone would even use such a room though.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

There is at least one school in Ottawa, Ontario that designates a prayer room for Muslim students and several in the U.S.  for Muslims.

By the choice they can lawfully make. Again. Where is the issue?

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, blackbird said:

I try to make them short because I believe short titles attract more interest than long sentences for titles.  

"Public Schools to Ban Prayer"

Shorter, and more honest than your title. Still attracts interest.

You can then elaborate in the thread, but doing so in good taste.

You're not doing anything wrong. The news do it all the time. Its just deceptive. In the heart of debate, I have to call you on it, but personally I don't care what you post.

Off subject, people who support this type of reporting, yet hate dishonest news or politicians, are being lost on the irony of their anger. 

[Zeitgeist]

Quebec vacillates between fascism and communism.  It’s the most highly taxed jurisdiction in North America, yet its roads are in terrible condition and the province is full of young misinformed activists on welfare.  The smart money left Quebec 40 years ago.  Quebec trounces on religious rights and has undermined its own cultural roots in the process.  Now they desperately fall back on fascist moves like banning headscarves in the public sector.  Oh well, at least they have pretty old buildings, Hydro Quebec, and a few big companies that rely heavily on Canadian favouritism.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Zeitgeist

[blackbird]

4 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Its just deceptive.

As I already explained, I never even thought about adding the word "public" in the title or not adding it.  No need to be so picky. 

 In any case, the ban probably has more to do with Muslims wanting prayer rooms in schools. Perhaps Quebec feels they are under attack by Muslims with all the controversy over Bill 21, etc.  While I am all for freedom of religion, I think there is a limit to how far society has to go to accommodate Islam.  This is not an Islamic state.