What's your opinion of citizens that do not vote?

[Moonlight Graham]

What is worse?  Person who doesn't vote, or person who enthusiastically votes/supports for one of our horribly corrupt parties.

Imagine putting one of their signs on your lawn.  You'd have to kill me first.

Edited March 21 by Moonlight Graham

[impartialobserver]

1 minute ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What is worse?  Person who doesn't vote, or person who enthusiastically votes/supports for one of our horribly corrupt parties.

Imagine putting one of their signs on your lawn.  You'd have to kill me first.

Lawn signs are for the weak who need affirmation. I get all of the information that I need about candidates from doing some reading a few weeks before an election. I do not care in the least if someone agrees with my choice of candidate.

[CdnFox]

21 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

And how do you know that she explicitly taught me to NOT vote? Come on.. lets see some actual evidence and not just assuming and jumping to conclusions. I simply observed that she did not vote and never talked about politics. Dad was mostly indifferent. too busy working 3 jobs to care about much else. 

Absolutely right kid! Keep not voting!

[Nefarious Banana]

12 minutes ago, impartialobserver said:

Lawn signs are for the weak who need affirmation. I get all of the information that I need about candidates from doing some reading a few weeks before an election. I do not care in the least if someone agrees with my choice of candidate.

Are you a Canadian citizen?   . . .  if so, do you vote federally or provincially?

[impartialobserver]

Just now, Nefarious Banana said:

Are you a Canadian citizen?   . . .  if so, do you vote federally or provincially?

No, i am not. I do vote in the various city, county, and state elections here when the time comes. I find the day after an election to be one of the best days of the year.. no pamphlets, no calls, no one coming to the door. 

[CdnFox]

18 minutes ago, myata said:

Not at all. Canada is effectively, a two party system. It has zero checks on a majority government; and even minority ones can do outrageous things when other parties don't feel like going to an election.

It's pretty hard to make that claim when only one party has been around for very long and there's a tradition of wiping out parties when they misbehave.

So - which two parties are you referring to - the liberals and the conservatives? oh - right, the conservatives disolved. How about the progressive conservatives? Oh right - they got trashed too.  Reform then? Or maybe the alliance? Oh right, voters wanted something more than that. The CPC?

Tell me all about our 'two party system pretty much all of those have been the opposition in majority and minority gov'ts and three of them have been the actual gov't.

Hell even the bloc managed to be opposition once and frequently holds the balance of power.

We mostly have minority gov'ts for the last 20 years as a result. It's rare for any one party to hold power.

So saying we're a twp party system simply isn't supported by the facts.

 

 

[CdnFox]

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

What is worse?  Person who doesn't vote, or person who enthusiastically votes/supports for one of our horribly corrupt parties.

The first. The second is at least attempting to make the best of what we've got. As one member here says "no matter what the gov't is going to get in".

But if you feel that strongly about the nature of the parties you can get involved and do much to change them.

19 minutes ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Imagine putting one of their signs on your lawn.  You'd have to kill me first.

Well - lets call that plan b.

[Contrarian]

2 hours ago, impartialobserver said:

No, i am not. I do vote in the various city, county, and state elections here when the time comes. I find the day after an election to be one of the best days of the year.. no pamphlets, no calls, no one coming to the door. 

What state? Are the elections close between candidates? 

Edited March 21 by Contrarian

[OftenWrong]

I would say people who do not vote are

very intelligent and wise...

[Aristides]

Make voting compulsory like Australia, it has shown to reduce polarization and encourage moderation. Polls have shown over 70% of Australians favour keeping it.

[Contrarian]

7 minutes ago, Aristides said:

Make voting compulsory like Australia, it has shown to reduce polarization and encourage moderation. Polls have shown over 70% of Australians favour keeping it.

Yes, the fine is 20$ and above if you don't vote, if I remember correctly. 

Edited March 21 by Contrarian
edit design

[Moonlight Graham]

3 hours ago, CdnFox said:

The first. The second is at least attempting to make the best of what we've got. As one member here says "no matter what the gov't is going to get in".

But if you feel that strongly about the nature of the parties you can get involved and do much to change them.

Why would I associate myself with selfish power-hungry pieces of crap who care much more about themselves than their country?  And how would I change their nature?

[myata]

9 hours ago, CdnFox said:

We mostly have minority gov'ts for the last 20 years as a result. It's rare for any one party to hold power.

You can't say that no, because these are not normal parliamentary parties and their representation is grossly skewed, really nothing like it is in the reality. This is a convoluted pseudo democratic system that was designed with one sole reason: leave for the citizens as little place in the process as theoretically possible. Two, OK: bestow upon themselves all kind of gross and unwarranted privilege and entitlements.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, myata said:

You can't say that no, because these are not normal parliamentary parties and their representation is grossly skewed, really nothing like it is in the reality. This is a convoluted pseudo democratic system that was designed with one sole reason: leave for the citizens as little place in the process as theoretically possible. Two, OK: bestow upon themselves all kind of gross and unwarranted privilege and entitlements.

I'm not sure i understand, in what way are these "not normal parliamentary parties"?  And - how is their representation 'skewed'?

[CdnFox]

7 hours ago, Moonlight Graham said:

Why would I associate myself with selfish power-hungry pieces of crap who care much more about themselves than their country?  And how would I change their nature?

To reduce the percentage of them who are selifsh power hungry peices of crap and increase the number who are not

If you're too timid to show up and participate then those POC's get to decide your future for you without your input.

And if you show up then maybe some other NPOC's (non peices of crap) show up and decide to stick around, and suddenly the party gets better.

It's just a question of whether you want to be a man about it and have whatever say you can in your life or if you want to be timid and let others run your life for you. That's a decision you'd have to make.

[myata]

42 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

I'm not sure i understand, in what way are these "not normal parliamentary parties"?  And - how is their representation 'skewed'?

Because normal parliamentary parties: 1) participate in the parliamentary process and compete equally with other parties, not create a monopoly or very near exclusively for themselves; 2) are organized and governed democratically, not by obscure central committees; and 3) the representation in the Parliament reflects the reality not some convoluted massaged number.

From this perspective, in Canada we have pretty much nothing like a normal democratic process. Its some show, imitation of it, really to the benefit of the ruling elites stuck there pretty much for eternity - or so they like to think and designed it.

[myata]

We do not have a free choice here in Canada. Obvious. Proven and stamped.

1000 parties, chose one that you like and we'll make the exact count of votes for each one: this is free choice.

1000 "parties" but you can only pick one of the default duo, the rest is throw away doesn't count - of course you are conditioned to not pick the one that you like but that is likely to win. This is nothing like free choice. A mirage, deception. The lie.

This is the proof, only logic. Now, can a democracy exist without free choice and free of any checks and controls by the citizens? Sure you can spell the word, but in essence and the reality?

Edited March 22 by myata

[myata]

Double post

Edited March 22 by myata

[Contrarian]

19 minutes ago, myata said:

We do not have a free choice here in Canada. Obvious. Proven and stamped.

1000 parties, chose one that you like and we'll make the exact count of votes for each one: this is free choice.

1000 "parties" but you can only pick one of the default duo, the rest is throw away doesn't count - of course you are conditioned to not pick the one that you like but that is likely to win. This is nothing like free choice. A mirage, deception. The lie.

This is the proof, only logic. Now, can a democracy exist without free choice and free of any checks and controls by the citizens? Sure you can spell the word, but in essence and the reality?

Give it up already, nobody is giving you power in this country to push "Destroy and Rebuild".

You can make changes on the inside instead of ending up at a corner with a megaphone when you are 60 saying how you have the answer to every society's problems. 

Edited March 22 by Contrarian
edit design

[myata]

1 minute ago, Contrarian said:

You can make changes on the inside instead

Dinosaurs believed that, do ask them.

The simplest control trick ever: the eggs or the porridge? No we don't have anything else for you dear. But it worked in a G7 (supposedly) democracy for two centuries. Humans is simply astounding species.

[Contrarian]

3 minutes ago, myata said:

Dinosaurs believed that, do ask them.

The simplest control trick ever: the eggs or the porridge? No we don't have anything else for you dear. But it worked in a G7 (supposedly) democracy for two centuries. Humans is simply astounding species.

"Destroy and Rebuild" theories are not a healthy habit is my view.  😄

Edited March 22 by Contrarian
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[myata]

Just now, Contrarian said:

Destroy and Rebuild" theories are not a healthy habit is my view. 

Change is destruction! Change is anathema! Run! RUN!!! ...

By the way, have you seen that funny dinosaur fellow of late? He was quite cute and fuzzy.

[CdnFox]

8 hours ago, myata said:

Because normal parliamentary parties: 1) participate in the parliamentary process and compete equally with other parties, not create a monopoly or very near exclusively for themselves;

There is no monopoly in Canada. Political parties start up on the federal and provinical levels all the time and often rise to power in just a few years.

The CPC came into existance in 2002 and by 2006 it was the elected gov't. HOw can you say there's a monopoly? Who's the party that's the monopoly that no one can compete against?

8 hours ago, myata said:

2) are organized and governed democratically, not by obscure central committees; and

There's nothing 'obscure' about the governing committes of ANY of the parties. Their names are all published, the minutes of their meetings are, and they're organizers - they don't set policy or anything.

The party leaders are chosen by a vote of the membership. The party policy is largely decided at policy conventions which are regularly held and in the case of the cpc are attended by voters, not just party officials.  You don't get much more democratic than that.

8 hours ago, myata said:

3) the representation in the Parliament reflects the reality not some convoluted massaged number.

That doesn't even make sense.  What "reality"?  The representatives are the people chosen by the voters in the riding as being the best person to represent them in parliament. What isn't real about that?

8 hours ago, myata said:

From this perspective, in Canada we have pretty much nothing like a normal democratic process. Its some show, imitation of it, really to the benefit of the ruling elites stuck there pretty much for eternity - or so they like to think and designed it.

Nothing you've said stands up to even cursory examination.  I think you'll have to try a lot harder than that to say we're anything but a normal democracy.

[impartialobserver]

20 hours ago, Contrarian said:

What state? Are the elections close between candidates? 

Currently live in NV. Some close races. However, grew up in Idaho where the races are not close and never have been. 

[myata]

2 hours ago, CdnFox said:

There is no monopoly in Canada.

Look, this is too long to explain and it's been done so many times already not fun anymore. You want to live in a fairy world? Of course you can. It's a choice too. You don't have "representatives". They decide nothing and their loyalties are to God knows who except those who elected them and they are "employees", in fact and the letter. The representation of "parties" in the "Parliament" (try to figure the quotes too) is nothing like it is in the reality, more like some impossibly disfigured and convoluted alternative one. That's to begin, then you either try to figure it out or there's no point. Good luck.