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There's a pretty lively EV thread in the Provincial Politics forum. 

Do you suppose that LNG emissions to generate electricity, to charge EVs as well as many other things, are more than that from the entire Gasoline refining and transportation industry? That gas has to get to your Gas Station somehow. 

Edited by Boges
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1 hour ago, impartialobserver said:

Somewhat connected to this... largest lithium mine in America is a go. It is in the very remote northwest portion of Nevada. The natives and ranchers attempting to block it has been put aside for now. 

You'll see Lithium Mining replace Oil Drilling overtime. 

See Ontario's Ring of Fire. 

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1 hour ago, Boges said:

You'll see Lithium Mining replace Oil Drilling overtime. 

See Ontario's Ring of Fire. 

Except that the supply of lithium that demands no processing is far, far lower than that of oil. That is why they have fought so hard to get this mine up and going. Exceedingly dry climate, very sparsely populated, and would demand no secondary processing. 

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21 hours ago, Boges said:

There's a pretty lively EV thread in the Provincial Politics forum. 

Do you suppose that LNG emissions to generate electricity, to charge EVs as well as many other things, are more than that from the entire Gasoline refining and transportation industry? That gas has to get to your Gas Station somehow. 

Considering ALL EV charging is fossil fuel based, and considering that battery material is the product of CHILD SLAVE LABOR (kinda like American cotton production in the 19th Century) I'd say there's nothing green or conservational about EVs.

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5 minutes ago, reason10 said:

So SLAVERY is returning.

You're confusing Cobalt mining with Lithium mining. 

Cobalt will likely be phased out of EV battery construction in the near future. But hey there's Cobalt in the your cell phone's battery. 

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8 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Considering ALL EV charging is fossil fuel based, and considering that battery material is the product of CHILD SLAVE LABOR (kinda like American cotton production in the 19th Century) I'd say there's nothing green or conservational about EVs.

So EVs in Quebec that get charged from Hydro Power are Fossil fuel based? 

Nuclear Power is Fossel Fuel based? 

Solar and Wind? 

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3 minutes ago, Boges said:

You're confusing Cobalt mining with Lithium mining. 

Cobalt will likely be phased out of EV battery construction in the near future. But hey there's Cobalt in the your cell phone's battery. 

I just go with the facts:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/green-battery-revolution-powering-social-and-environmental-risks

The Hidden Risks of Batteries: Child Labor, Modern Slavery, and Weakened Land and Water Rights

Following the scrapping of mining export taxes by President Mauricio Macri, Argentina has emerged as the pre-eminent producer in South America’s "lithium triangle," which also encompasses Bolivia and Chile. The resulting surge in investor interest in Argentina could see investment in the sector top $20 billion between now and 2025. However, as investment grows, so does the number of legal challenges from indigenous and rural communities fighting against the industry’s demand for water and land.

According to Verisk Maplecroft’s water stress index, the lithium-rich Puna highland desert of Salta and Jujuy is classified as "extreme risk." Conflict between mine operators and local populations over water rights have led to 33 indigenous communities from Salta and Jujuy filing legal challenges against lithium operations in Laguna Guayatayoc and Salinas Grandes.

A potential ruling in favor of the communities by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights is unlikely to halt operations, but local demonstrations against the projects might create continuity issues if they escalate to the extent of protests that we see in Peru.

Ultimately, environmental issues affecting lithium production in South America pose less of a risk to business than the extreme environment of DR Congo, and they are unlikely to spur the kind of regulatory response that human rights violations in the supply chain have prompted. However, companies found to be sourcing from mines perceived to encroach on local populations’ access to water, or indeed the rights of indigenous peoples, may face a reputational cost.   

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future

Then there is the issue of lithium mining. World production is set to soar over the next decade. Yet mining is linked to all sorts of environmental headaches. In the so-called Lithium Triangle of South America – made up of Chile, Argentina and Bolivia – vast quantities of water are pumped from underground sources to help extract lithium from ores, and this has been linked to the lowering of ground water levels and the spread of deserts. Similarly in Tibet, a toxic chemical leak from the Ganzizhou Rongda Lithium mine poisoned the local Lichu river in 2016 and triggered widespread protests in the region.

Nor will these ecological problems be confined to specialist metals, analysts have pointed out. They say that rising demands for traditional materials such as cement – for building hydro-electric dams – or for copper, to provide cables to link wind and solar farms to cities and to build electric cars, could also cause widespread environmental damage unless care is taken.

https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/lithium-giant-s-link-to-slave-labour-region-puts-tesla-in-spotlight-20220718-p5b2ce

Lithium giant’s link to slave labour region puts Tesla in spotlight

A lithium producer for car makers including BMW and Tesla is beginning work to assess battery metals projects in Xinjiang, deepening links between electric vehicle supply chains and a region at the heart of human rights allegations against China.

Slavery doesn't seem to bother liberals. Those huge afroed black athletes who kneel during the National Anthem are wearing NIKES that are produced by SLAVE LABOR.

 

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4 minutes ago, reason10 said:

I just go with the facts:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/green-battery-revolution-powering-social-and-environmental-risks

The Hidden Risks of Batteries: Child Labor, Modern Slavery, and Weakened Land and Water Rights

Following the scrapping of mining export taxes by President Mauricio Macri, Argentina has emerged as the pre-eminent producer in South America’s "lithium triangle," which also encompasses Bolivia and Chile. The resulting surge in investor interest in Argentina could see investment in the sector top $20 billion between now and 2025. However, as investment grows, so does the number of legal challenges from indigenous and rural communities fighting against the industry’s demand for water and land.

According to Verisk Maplecroft’s water stress index, the lithium-rich Puna highland desert of Salta and Jujuy is classified as "extreme risk." Conflict between mine operators and local populations over water rights have led to 33 indigenous communities from Salta and Jujuy filing legal challenges against lithium operations in Laguna Guayatayoc and Salinas Grandes.

A potential ruling in favor of the communities by the Inter-American Court of Human Rights is unlikely to halt operations, but local demonstrations against the projects might create continuity issues if they escalate to the extent of protests that we see in Peru.

Ultimately, environmental issues affecting lithium production in South America pose less of a risk to business than the extreme environment of DR Congo, and they are unlikely to spur the kind of regulatory response that human rights violations in the supply chain have prompted. However, companies found to be sourcing from mines perceived to encroach on local populations’ access to water, or indeed the rights of indigenous peoples, may face a reputational cost.   

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jan/03/child-labour-toxic-leaks-the-price-we-could-pay-for-a-greener-future

Then there is the issue of lithium mining. World production is set to soar over the next decade. Yet mining is linked to all sorts of environmental headaches. In the so-called Lithium Triangle of South America – made up of Chile, Argentina and Bolivia – vast quantities of water are pumped from underground sources to help extract lithium from ores, and this has been linked to the lowering of ground water levels and the spread of deserts. Similarly in Tibet, a toxic chemical leak from the Ganzizhou Rongda Lithium mine poisoned the local Lichu river in 2016 and triggered widespread protests in the region.

Nor will these ecological problems be confined to specialist metals, analysts have pointed out. They say that rising demands for traditional materials such as cement – for building hydro-electric dams – or for copper, to provide cables to link wind and solar farms to cities and to build electric cars, could also cause widespread environmental damage unless care is taken.

https://www.afr.com/companies/mining/lithium-giant-s-link-to-slave-labour-region-puts-tesla-in-spotlight-20220718-p5b2ce

Lithium giant’s link to slave labour region puts Tesla in spotlight

A lithium producer for car makers including BMW and Tesla is beginning work to assess battery metals projects in Xinjiang, deepening links between electric vehicle supply chains and a region at the heart of human rights allegations against China.

Slavery doesn't seem to bother liberals. Those huge afroed black athletes who kneel during the National Anthem are wearing NIKES that are produced by SLAVE LABOR.

Do you know how much stuff you purchase is made by Chinese Slave Labour? 

You just oppose EVs so you decide to focus on how Lithium Ion batteries are made, all while using a device that likely uses Lithium Ion Batteries. 

And incorrectly correlate Cobalt Mining with Lithium Mining . 

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5 minutes ago, Boges said:

So EVs in Quebec that get charged from Hydro Power are Fossil fuel based? 

Nuclear Power is Fossel Fuel based? 

Solar and Wind? 

EnviroNazis have protected against hydroelectric and nuke even LONGER than against fracking.

Solar?

https://www.riddlelife.com/yes-solar-panels-produce-pollution-heres-how/#:~:text=Manufacturing of Solar Panels causes air%2C water and,into landfills or nearby water bodies causing pollution.

Manufacturing of Solar Panels causes air, water and land pollution. Hazardous materials like Cadmium-Telluride, Copper-indium-gallium-Diselenide, and Gallium Arsenide are generated while producing thin-film Solar Panels. These toxic materials are sometimes dumped into landfills or nearby water bodies causing pollution.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2021/06/21/why-everything-they-said-about-solar---including-that-its-clean-and-cheap---was-wrong/?sh=528cdc015fe5

But when reporters eventually looked into the issue they came to the same conclusions I had. In 2019, The New York Times NYT +2.8%  published a long article about toxic old solar panels and batteries causing “harm to people who scavenge recyclable materials by hand” in poor African communities. In 2020, Discover DISCA 0.0%  magazineconfirmed that “it is often cheaper to discard them in landfills or send them to developing countries. As solar panels sit in dumps, the toxic metals they contain can leach out into the environment and possibly pose a public health hazard if they get into the groundwater supply.” 

Truthfully, I have no problem with nuclear power replacing ALL coal fired plants in the world. It is the cleanest, cheapest and safest. Try getting that past the EnviroNazis. You might have an easier time getting them to move Congress into Trump Towers.

 

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1 minute ago, Boges said:

Do you know how much stuff you purchase is made by Chinese Slave Labour? 

You just oppose EVs so you decide to focus on how Lithium Ion batteries are made, all while using a device that likely uses Lithium Ion Batteries. 

And incorrectly correlate Cobalt Mining with Lithium Mining . 

Lithium mining isn't a pristine and safe venture. It is more polluting than oil drilling. It creates a bigger threat to water supplies than oil drilling.

By the way, most of the solar components are produced by slave labor in China, WHICH BY THE WAY IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST POLLUTER AND LARGEST USER OF COAL.

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2 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Truthfully, I have no problem with nuclear power replacing ALL coal fired plants in the world. It is the cleanest, cheapest and safest. Try getting that past the EnviroNazis. You might have an easier time getting them to move Congress into Trump Towers.

Or LNG as mentioned earlier in this thread. Using that as a bridge fuel for the world until Green Technology or more affordable Nuclear can be brought online would be far better for the environment than what we do now. 

BTW increasing LNG usage since Russia is now a Pariah state, means enriching countries like Qatar that also participate in Slave labour. 

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2 minutes ago, reason10 said:

Lithium mining isn't a pristine and safe venture. It is more polluting than oil drilling. It creates a bigger threat to water supplies than oil drilling.

By the way, most of the solar components are produced by slave labor in China, WHICH BY THE WAY IS THE WORLD'S LARGEST POLLUTER AND LARGEST USER OF COAL.

Is any mining a pristine and safe venture? 

Ever checked what the Tar Sands do to the local environment? 

Fracking for Natural Gas has proven to do awful things to local environments. 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

Or LNG as mentioned earlier in this thread. Using that as a bridge fuel for the world until Green Technology or more affordable Nuclear can be brought online would be far better for the environment than what we do now. 

BTW increasing LNG usage since Russia is now a Pariah state, means enriching countries like Qatar that also participate in Slave labour. 

And there is no slave labor in American traditional fossil fuel production.

 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

 

There have been zero news stories (from reliable sources) suggesting damage to local environments.

I spent time in LaMarque, Texas in 1983. It's probably what you would consider ground zero for the oil/gasoline industry. You could see oil towers from 50 miles away. Oil refineries all over the place. Strange: The hospitals were not filled with people complaining of tainted ground water.

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4 minutes ago, reason10 said:

And there is no slave labor in American traditional fossil fuel production.

We're not talking Fuel we're talking mining of rare Earth Metals, or manufacturing. 

I venture to say that at least a few products you own were produced by people with sub-part working standards at the very least. 

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1 hour ago, reason10 said:

There have been zero news stories (from reliable sources) suggesting damage to local environments.

I spent time in LaMarque, Texas in 1983. It's probably what you would consider ground zero for the oil/gasoline industry. You could see oil towers from 50 miles away. Oil refineries all over the place. Strange: The hospitals were not filled with people complaining of tainted ground water.

Sweet Anecdote from 40 years ago. Fracking is a relatively new form of Gas extraction no? 

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20 hours ago, Boges said:

Sweet Anecdote from 40 years ago. Fracking is a relatively new form of Gas extraction no? 

https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/hydraulic-fracturing

A new USGS study reports that shale-gas production in northern Pennsylvania has not currently caused widespread hydrocarbon contamination in the upland aquifer zone used for domestic supply, but it's too soon for a full assessment.

Shale-oil and -gas production from a major production area in Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota has not caused widespread hydrocarbon contamination to date in nearby aquifer zones used for drinking-water supply, reports a new USGS study.

In any event, the country that has bought off our current unelected President

https://nypost.com/2022/01/27/chinese-elite-have-paid-some-31m-to-hunter-and-the-bidens/

is the LARGEST fossil fuel user on the planet and is the WORST polluter.

When the envirofascists start pointing their fingers at China, they'll have a little credibility.

 

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45 minutes ago, reason10 said:

is the LARGEST fossil fuel user on the planet and is the WORST polluter.

When the envirofascists start pointing their fingers at China, they'll have a little credibility.

They also have North of 1 billion people and are actually interested in foreign influence, unlike the US under Trump. 

Per Capita, Europe and North America are still far worse polluters. What Canada makes up 2% of Global emissions for a fraction of a percent of the Global population. 

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47 minutes ago, reason10 said:

https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/water-resources/science/hydraulic-fracturing

A new USGS study reports that shale-gas production in northern Pennsylvania has not currently caused widespread hydrocarbon contamination in the upland aquifer zone used for domestic supply, but it's too soon for a full assessment.

Shale-oil and -gas production from a major production area in Montana, North Dakota, and South Dakota has not caused widespread hydrocarbon contamination to date in nearby aquifer zones used for drinking-water supply, reports a new USGS study.

Look I'm not opposed to LNG extraction. It's a fuel we need. 

But it's hilarious that you're fretting over the Environmental impacts of Lithium mining because it goes towards a "Green" product. But you'll defend the environmental costs of traditional Fossil fuel extraction. 

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2 hours ago, Boges said:

They also have North of 1 billion people and are actually interested in foreign influence, unlike the US under Trump. 

Per Capita, Europe and North America are still far worse polluters. What Canada makes up 2% of Global emissions for a fraction of a percent of the Global population. 

You're hiding behind that bullshit "per capita" fairy tale. The United States is being targeted by the EnviroFascists to knock out our fossil fuel facilities and put us in the Stone Age, based on a climate change fairy tale that NO REAL SCIENTIST agrees with. These SAME goose steppers ignore CHINA and it's RECORD HIGHEST POLLUTION AND FOSSIL FUEL USE. It's not about per capital. It's about the goose steppers trying to destroy America.

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