Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Michael Hardner said: To his credit, he actually believes he is good faith but refuses to admit that he says things that contradict his stated principles of good behaviour. A lot of people get that way when they realize their beliefs, that they've held for a long time and became part of their identity, are wrong. Still, I respect these people more than the trolls who are just anti-reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: Have no data to back this up but my impression of the whole trans issue is that simply fills a void. The left has to have some group to fight for. Today's era is relatively calm and stable. This is more a function of boredom and lack of causes to fight for than anything else. The 'left', in the US, is Democrats who are roughly as much in the pocket of corporations as the Republicans are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: https://www.vox.com/politics/23631262/trans-bills-republican-state-legislatures https://www.aclu.org/legislative-attacks-on-lgbtq-rights https://translegislation.com I actually wish you were right. I wish this was just hysteria created by bored SJW kids. But the truth is, we are in the beginning stage of a trans genocide. Genocide... a bit of an exaggeration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said: A lot of people get that way when they realize their beliefs, that they've held for a long time and became part of their identity, are wrong. The rest post memes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Americana Antifa said: A lot of people get that way when they realize their beliefs, that they've held for a long time and became part of their identity, are wrong. Still, I respect these people more than the trolls who are just anti-reality. Maybe - but the trolls, historically, didn't engage politically so they had zero impact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: The 'left', in the US, is Democrats who are roughly as much in the pocket of corporations as the Republicans are. Back to the topic.. Trans people have existed for decades/centuries.. and yet are just now being the lead topic when it comes to social justice and such. Why wait until now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, impartialobserver said: Genocide... a bit of an exaggeration. But it SOUNDS cool. It's important to remember that most of the left's arguments are about 85 percent based on emotional appeal rather than fact. So they shoe horn eveything into emotionally charged langugage. Everything has to be racist, everyone has to be a nazi, any word spoken against trans is genocide, etc etc. It's the modern day version of the priest from canterbury tails or the american west's "Snake oil" peddler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: Genocide... a bit of an exaggeration. Look at the chart. Genocide is a process. It never just starts with death camps. 6 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Maybe - but the trolls, historically, didn't engage politically so they had zero impact. Whereas now they control the Right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, CdnFox said: But it SOUNDS cool. It's important to remember that most of the left's arguments are about 85 percent based on emotional appeal rather than fact. So they shoe horn eveything into emotionally charged langugage. Everything has to be racist, everyone has to be a nazi, any word spoken against trans is genocide, etc etc. It's the modern day version of the priest from canterbury tails or the american west's "Snake oil" peddler. I have an "allergy" to hyperbole. However, I find that both sides use it. Its the only way to get some one to pay attention. If you are too mellow, objective, balanced.. your reader falls asleep or scrolls by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: Look at the chart. Genocide is a process. It never just starts with death camps. First off its an illness. We want to cure illnesses. Claiming that it's genocide is like talking about the 'genocide of cancer' because people get treated for that. Second -there's no genocide in the slighest here. It doesnt' match the definition in the slightest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, CdnFox said: First off its an illness. We want to cure illnesses. Claiming that it's genocide is like talking about the 'genocide of cancer' because people get treated for that. Second -there's no genocide in the slighest here. It doesnt' match the definition in the slightest. This is literally how so many genocides have began that it sounds like satire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: I have an "allergy" to hyperbole. Yeah, ok that was funny 14 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: However, I find that both sides use it. Its the only way to get some one to pay attention. If you are too mellow, objective, balanced.. your reader falls asleep or scrolls by. Sure - but they use it differently and one generally uses it to accentuate a real point while the other uses it AS their point, and that's where we run into problems. If i say "I've told you a million times..." i'm highlighting that i've told you an excessive amount. I'm not really saying it really was a million times. But when the left claims that there is a 'transgender genocide' - they're actually pushing the idea that there REALLY IS. " THey're not saying it's genocide-like or ish. Or exaggerating to highlight the severity of the situation. The right does a little of that from time to time but with the left it's pretty constant. THey base their issues on emotion entirely so they need everything to be framed in a hyper emotional context. I mean - she's still trying to convince you there really is a genocide. Edited May 23, 2023 by CdnFox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: This is literally how so many genocides have began that it sounds like satire. Nope. This is LITERALLY you trying to shoehorn a term you think is emotionally charged into fitting into something it doesn't because your arguments lack logic or reason and therefore rely on emotion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 18 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: Whereas now they control the Right. Yes. But passive ignorance is pervasive and a long-term problem too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 15 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Yes. But passive ignorance is pervasive and a long-term problem too. And that sums up the Center. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 17 minutes ago, CdnFox said: Nope. This is LITERALLY you trying to shoehorn a term you think is emotionally charged into fitting into something it doesn't because your arguments lack logic or reason and therefore rely on emotion. You're saying that trans people are an illness that must be cured. I think it would be easier finding examples of genocides where the perpetrators did not speak like this. Genocides usually start out with the target group being painted as a disease infecting society, especially the children. It's the same thing with moral panics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 45 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: Look at the chart. Genocide is a process. It never just starts with death camps. Whereas now they control the Right. I looked at your links and they do not illustrate your point. I think that you are jumping to conclusions a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 4 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: I looked at your links and they do not illustrate your point. I think that you are jumping to conclusions a bit. Would you at least agree that the right-wing establishment regularly dehumanizes trans people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: Would you at least agree that the right-wing establishment regularly dehumanizes trans people? Yes. On the other side, I think that the left overstates the number of trans people. I am very open minded being as I have some strange hobbies and do not want someone judging me without knowing the full story. However, I have only observed/met a dozen trans people in real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 8 minutes ago, impartialobserver said: Yes. On the other side, I think that the left overstates the number of trans people. I am very open minded being as I have some strange hobbies and do not want someone judging me without knowing the full story. However, I have only observed/met a dozen trans people in real life. Well yeah, trans people make up like 2% of the population. But I don't think the Left is overstating the number of trans people. If anything, the Right does that as part of their narrative that schools are transing the kids and that soon everyone is going to be trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CdnFox Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 19 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: Would you at least agree that the right-wing establishment regularly dehumanizes trans people? You mean like how you call jews nazis? Or say conservatives are 'lesser people'? LIke that you mean? The right tends to downplay the illness, not the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 10 minutes ago, CdnFox said: You mean like how you call jews nazis? Or say conservatives are 'lesser people'? LIke that you mean? The right tends to downplay the illness, not the person. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 38 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said: But I don't think the Left is overstating the number of trans people. Do you think that the left over-prioritizes issues that of concern to Trans people though ? When you consider an issue like, oh, maybe Poverty that affects 6X as many people ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Americana Antifa Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: Do you think that the left over-prioritizes issues that of concern to Trans people though ? Not at all. There are tons of anti-trans bills being pass throughout the country, plus right-wing media regularly uses genocidal rhetoric in how they obsessively fear-monger about trans people. I think if anything, the Left doesn't realize how close we are to a legit genocide. Quote When you consider an issue like, oh, maybe Poverty that affects 6X as many people ? The Left talks about economics all the time. That's why the Right does culture war bullshit. It's just to distract from economic issues. It's also why the media does its best to ignore people like Bernie Sanders and Marianne Williamson. Edited May 23, 2023 by Americana Antifa 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impartialobserver Posted May 23, 2023 Report Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said: Well yeah, trans people make up like 2% of the population. But I don't think the Left is overstating the number of trans people. If anything, the Right does that as part of their narrative that schools are transing the kids and that soon everyone is going to be trans. I do not have the time to tear into academic literature but my guess is that this 2% number is a bit high. Politics is all about exaggeration. The right claims that the trans narrative is alive and well in every school in America. There is no central database so the best that we can do is estimate or guess. I would estimate that only 1% of schools have any kind of explicit/ongoing programs on this. I have school aged children and am very involved. There is zero mention of it or at least as of yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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