Transgender Issues

[CdnFox]

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

So this might come as a shock, but neither of us are doctors.

so in other words you feel your opinion isn't valid

Noted.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

 

You're lying again. I already proved that most Americans side with the Left when it comes to trans rights.

a) No, you didn't.

b) I said the LEFT was nuts, not trans people,

c) Siding with someone doesn't mean that people agree with all the lefts stupidity on the issue,

d) trying to swich what i said from 'the left' to 'trans people' makes YOU the liar Swing and a miss sparky

As always - the left HAS to lie to make it's point, then accuses others of doing things it does.

And again - this is why americans think you're nuts.

[Perspektiv]

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Imagine saying to someone, do you think there's ANY scenario where pumping toxic chemicals into someone works out well, as an argument against chemotherapy.

First there are tests done to be certain there is a cancer. Locate it, then treat it. More even, research to fully understand cancer and improve treatments, and potentially eliminate its ability to kill so many. This involves accepting some treatments aren't optimal.

The first lawsuit (with many more to come) from a detransitioned individual, showcases that gender affirming care doesn't work for all suffering from forms of dysphoria. 

Suicides don't dramatically drop with such treatment. Questioning things, allows for the improvement of services in some who desperately need it.

Good luck finding someone talking about the good the bad and the ugly of gender affirming care without serious consequences for the latter.

This is precisely what makes gender ideology and the trans movement so attractive to impressionable kids. Many are following, but aren't truly trans and will unfortunately have undergone irreversible treatments to their bodies by the time that they realize it.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

I already proved that most Americans side with the Left when it comes to trans rights.

I like how you worded that. Of course most Americans side with trans people having rights. They are no less human than the rest of us.

Things get murky regarding sports, and administering treatment to children. Oh, and the rights of kids to choose their own pronouns, or schools to witthold any of this to parents from a transitioning child.

That or predatory indoctrination. When you're specific, you find Americans are deeply divided on the issue. 

The irony, is that people like you are all for the destruction of society. They somehow believe if everything is torn down, they can build it back up. Seeing squatter areas in Portland and similar cities that went fully woke, anyone with common sense knows woke policies don't work. Sensible ones, do.

[Americana Antifa]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

First there are tests done to be certain there is a cancer. Locate it, then treat it. More even, research to fully understand cancer and improve treatments, and potentially eliminate its ability to kill so many. This involves accepting some treatments aren't optimal.

Yeah, that's what it's like for gender affirming care too.

Right-wing media wants us to think that if someone, child or adult, thinks they might be trans, the first option is surgery. The truth is that's the very last resort. Kids go on hormone blockers first, then later on decide if they want to get the surgery when they're adults. And even then, they're required to meet with psychiatrists and therapists and such. It's such a long process, the same way there are tests and attempts at alternative solutions before chemotherapy.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

The first lawsuit (with many more to come) from a detransitioned individual, showcases that gender affirming care doesn't work for all suffering from forms of dysphoria. 

Of course. No medical treatment is 100%. No matter what the surgery is, there are some people who regret getting it.

The question should be, what is the success rate? And the success rate for sex reassignment surgery is extremely high. Also, that's not including the fact that trans people sometimes detransition because they can't afford to keep taking hormones, or that their family refuses to accept them. It really is sad that transphobia will force people to detransition, then the media will point to those detransitions as justification for transphobia.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Suicides don't dramatically drop with such treatment. Questioning things, allows for the improvement of services in some who desperately need it.

Absolutely not true. Gender affirming care does drastically reduce the chances of suicide.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

This is precisely what makes gender ideology and the trans movement so attractive to impressionable kids. Many are following, but aren't truly trans and will unfortunately have undergone irreversible treatments to their bodies by the time that they realize it.

My dude. Look at all of the anti-trans propaganda in media. Look at how many anti-trans laws Republicans are making America. Do you really thinks kids are jumping at the chance to be trans in this environment? This would be like converting to Islam in China.

 

The idea that kids are choosing to be trans because it's cool is beyond insane. We're not talking about dying hair here. We're talking about a long and grueling process to become something that makes you the "enemy" in the eyes of millions of people including one of our two main political parties.

Keep in mind that hundreds of thousand of cis men go on mass shootings. The second it turned out that a recent shooter was trans, that's all that right-wing media talked about. This is hardcore nazi shit.

 

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Of course most Americans side with trans people having rights. They are no less human than the rest of us.

CdnFox doesn't want trans people to have any rights. So we're not talking about the more complex issues, like trans people in sports.

Quote

The irony, is that people like you are all for the destruction of society. They somehow believe if everything is torn down, they can build it back up. Seeing squatter areas in Portland and similar cities that went fully woke, anyone with common sense knows woke policies don't work. Sensible ones, do.

Please try watching some actual left-wing media some time instead of learning about leftists from right-wing fear porn. The idea that leftists want to tear society down is so stupid. Left-wing policy result in a more stable society.

While there are no left-wing countries yet, the countries with the highest living standards in the world are all left-leaning. Whereas the worst countries in the world are all right-wing.

Edited May 1, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[Americana Antifa]

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

so in other words you feel your opinion isn't valid

Sure it is. My opinion is that we should leave medical decisions up to the patients and their doctors. Conservatives generally agree, except for when it comes to issues they can politicize like abortion. 

It is funny how conservatives will say trans rights go against science, but at the same time ignore the actual scientists when it comes to trans issues.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

Siding with someone doesn't mean that people agree with all the lefts stupidity on the issue,

But by "the Left's stupidity on the issue," you're referring to the view that most Americans have on this issue. Y'all do this with a lot of things. Conservatives also think that accepting the reality of climate change is a left-wing position, when really that's just science, and it's the view that most people have in America and Canada. But again, fascists claim that anyone who isn't a fascist is on the Left.

4 hours ago, CdnFox said:

And again - this is why americans think you're nuts.

So how come the strategy of endless transphobia failed in the midterms? If most Americans disagreed with the Left, why did the Republicans get their cheeks clapped?

Edited May 1, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[Perspektiv]

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Right-wing media wants us to think that if someone, child or adult, thinks they might be trans, the first option is surgery.

Its not surgery during childhood. Its hormone blockers. Its sold as perfectly safe, and side effects are glossed over by some mainstream influencers. If you're trans, no issue.

A child feeling they may be, making permanent changes to their bodies, is another story. Results would be disastrous.

If you are saying there are zero serious side effects to hormone blockers, you're precisely what is wrong with the movement. Activism takes precedent over common sense. I believe it's a case by case basis. You can't treat until you're certain, or cue in major lawsuits.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

And the success rate for sex reassignment surgery is extremely high.

So are the complications. Suicides are still high post surgical intervention. 

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Do you really thinks kids are jumping at the chance to be trans in this environment? 

No. But someone who may have gender dysphoria just maybe may not benefit from surgery or even treatment. I strongly believe in case by case basis treatment. 

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

So we're not talking about the more complex issues, like trans people in sports

Well, I want trans rights. Most people do. It's not a left or right thing. If your kid came out as trans, you wouldn't love them any less, nor would I. 

I side with trans rights shouldn't erode women's rights or come at the expense of them. Am also against hormone blockers for children under a certain age.

Talking about these things with an open mind, is healthy. Shutting down dialogue, is dangerous, especially medically.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Please try watching some actual left-wing media

For the record, am conservative but am along the middle. 

Meaning, I deliberately watch leftist media and right wing media. Somewhere along the middle, is the truth.

I prefer logic, and at either extreme, none is available. If you can't even admit this for both sides, it proves your bias. 

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

all left-leaning

I am in Canada, and Canada in general, is quite centrist. 

I would disagree. Countries best run, are closer to the middle. 

Meaning logic and care take precedence. 

The US is deeply divided, and run by extremists deliberately dividing the country. 

Intelligence is looking at all sides and making an assessment.

You ignore the other side, which is divisive and means you're blind to half the picture. 

Notice how I didn't insult you for leaning left? 

You being left leaning is irrelevant. Its what you support, that I will debate you on.

Being a leftist doesn't make you any better than a conservative. Vice versa. 

If you honestly believe it does, it simply shows you have bought into the hate they are selling you, and are spewing it out.

Do yourself a favor. Think for yourself and look at all sides prior to passing judgment.

Life is so much better without hate in your heart.

[Americana Antifa]

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Its not surgery during childhood. Its hormone blockers. Its sold as perfectly safe, and side effects are glossed over by some mainstream influencers. If you're trans, no issue.

A child feeling they may be, making permanent changes to their bodies, is another story. Results would be disastrous.

Even then, they don't do hormone blockers right away. They try things like talk therapy first.

Think about what you're doing here. You're trusting doctors to be professionals in their fields for everything except for trans issues. Why is that? Do you think it's because of right-wing fear porn?

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

So are the complications. Suicides are still high post surgical intervention. 

Yes, trans people have higher suicide rates than cis people, even with gender affirming care. However, gender affirming care reduces the likelihood of suicide.

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

No. But someone who may have gender dysphoria just maybe may not benefit from surgery or even treatment. I strongly believe in case by case basis treatment. 

Yes! That's how it already is!

Right-wing media is lying to you. They don't have a conveyor belt where kids are walking in, getting surgery, and walking out in the same day. It's always on a case by case basis. And if it wasn't like that, righty media would have been able to prove it by now. Matt Walsh has to lie because he can't prove his claims.

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Talking about these things with an open mind, is healthy. Shutting down dialogue, is dangerous, especially medically.

The only people trying to shut down dialogue are conservatives who want to ban gender affirming care and any mention of LGBT people in schools. We never hear about Democrats trying to ban people from speaking or learning, only the fascist Republicans do that in America.

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

For the record, am conservative but am along the middle. 

Meaning, I deliberately watch leftist media and right wing media. Somewhere along the middle, is the truth.

I prefer logic, and at either extreme, none is available. If you can't even admit this for both sides, it proves your bias. 

It sounds like if anything, you're watching conservative media, which lies constantly, and centrist liberal media, which does a really shitty job of debunking the Right's many lies because they don't want to appear biased.

Try watching actual left-leaning media like Vaush, the Majority Report, the Rational National, Secular Talk, the Young Turks, and David Pakman. I don't agree with any of those people on everything, some of them are even liberals. But they all do a good job debunking the lies you hear from the Right.

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

I would disagree. Countries best run, are closer to the middle. 

The countries closest to the Left are the Nordic countries and the German Sprachraum. Those are also the countries with the highest living standards in the world. The more centrist countries are certainly better than right-wing countries, but they still don't have the highest living standards.

27 minutes ago, Perspektiv said:

Being a leftist doesn't make you any better than a conservative. Vice versa. 

I'm sure there are some people who believe conservative propaganda because they've been stuck in that bubble for so long. And I do believe that anyone can change.

However, conservatism as an ideology is authoritarian in nature. And the right-wing establishment, as in the politicians and pundits, are all grifters who just want more power for the rich. They know their policies are horrific for the workers, they don't care.

[CdnFox]

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Sure it is.

but you're unqualified. You just said so. So your opinon obviously isn't valid. Come back when you've got your dotorate.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

It is funny how conservatives will say trans rights go against science, but at the same time ignore the actual scientists when it comes to trans issues.

I have never said that. Could you point to where i said that? No? So - you're lying again.  well no surprise.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

But by "the Left's stupidity on the issue," you're referring to the view that most Americans have on this issue.

Nope. And i think you know it.

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Y'all do this with a lot of things. Conservatives also think that accepting the reality of climate change is a left-wing position, when really that's just science, and it's the view that most people have in America and Canada. But again, fascists claim that anyone who isn't a fascist is on the Left.

Y'all do this with a lot of things - deflect and pretend that every single conservative everywhere is exactly the same and thinks the same things and then ascribe a bad policy to them.

Sorry kiddo, you're lying again and we both know it. In fact most conservatives accept the climate is changing. The question of what to do about it or how much is avoidable is on the table.  When AOC says we can solve climate change by  banning airplanes and trains and rebuilding every single house in the US within ten years, conservatives tend to say "You are out of your freaking mind". ANd then left says "GASP! Climate denial".

 

3 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

So how come the strategy of endless transphobia failed in the midterms? If most Americans disagreed with the Left, why did the Republicans get their cheeks clapped?

Wasn't tried.  That's just the voices in your head again.  The republicans put forward a lot of trumpers who said a lot of crazy things and blew their shot on an open net.  It had nothing to do with trans people in the slightest one way or another

Like i've been saying - people don't care about 'trans' even a 10th as much as you think. They're just sick of the politics of it.

[Perspektiv]

4 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Even then, they don't do hormone blockers right away.

Shouldn't be administered to kids unless an extreme case, in my opinion. 

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Do you think it's because of right-wing fear porn?

Common sense. 

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

However, gender affirming care reduces the likelihood of suicide.

It's still highly prevalent. This shows there is something deeper.

6 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

which lies constantly

All media lies constantly. Its in your best interest to watch several sides, to have more of an objective opinion.

 

[Americana Antifa]

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Shouldn't be administered to kids unless an extreme case, in my opinion. 

Yeah, that's how it already is. Keep in mind, trans people make up 1% - 2% of the population. We're already talking about extremely rare cases. Trans kids are a fraction of that tiny minority and even then, not all of them go on puberty blockers. We're really talking about such a tiny tiny minority. But righty media has to pretend this is a huge problem because they don't have any popular economic policies.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Common sense. 

But you have double standards here. You trust doctors on every medical issue with the sole exceptions of the ones that right-wing media has politicized.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

It's still highly prevalent. This shows there is something deeper.

Absolutely. The main cause of suicide among trans people is rejection from family. So in other words, transphobia. For a long time it was like that for gay people too. Gay people still have higher suicide rates than straight people, but they've dropped drastically as homosexuality became less taboo.

2 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

All media lies constantly. Its in your best interest to watch several sides, to have more of an objective opinion.

I do watch media from all across the political spectrum. And while all media is biased in what they choose to cover, only right-wing media lies constantly. CNN is liberal, so they don't do stories that make capitalism look bad. However, CNN doesn't outright lie like Fox does. When Hillary lost in 2016, they didn't just say she won.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

not all of them go on puberty blockers

No kids under 16 should ever go on puberty blockers, again, unless cases are extreme. 

In my opinion, this is otherwise child abuse.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

But you have double standards here.

Not really. If it can be proven without a doubt that treatment is required, am all for it. Just like a vasectomy.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

homosexuality became less taboo

It was proven that there was literally nothing wrong with gay people. All the myths were debunked.

Gender dysphoria literally is a mental illness, that under activist pressure had the terminology softened to avoid offending. Its a mental illness. You will never normalize mental illness to any sane people.

2 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Fox does

Sorry, but Fox aren't even legit enough to be called a tabloid. They are pure sensationalist garbage. 

If this is your standard for conservative news, you're aiming quite low. CNN isn't much higher.

Fox is a crack pipe, and CNN is cocaine. Sure one is more acceptable, but both in theory are just the same. 

CNN being more honest, is like saying cocaine is at least a sign you have money. 

 

 

.

[Americana Antifa]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

No kids under 16 should ever go on puberty blockers, again, unless cases are extreme. 

I agree. And that's how it is now. Also, puberty usually starts way before age 16.

Puberty blockers are used for other things too, like early puberty.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Not really. If it can be proven without a doubt that treatment is required, am all for it. Just like a vasectomy.

That's not really possible. We can never prove for 100% positive what the right move is. That's why we generally leave it up to the patient and their doctor.

To paraphrase Raphael Warnock, a doctor's office is too small for a patient, their doctor, and the government. That's too many people.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

It was proven that there was literally nothing wrong with gay people. All the myths were debunked.

The point is that as society became more accepting of homosexuality, the rates of suicide among gay people dropped. Now when it comes to trans people, transition reduces the chances of suicide, but even after transition the suicide rates are still high due to transphobia. The biggest cause of suicide for people who have transitioned is rejection from family. So once again, we're at a point where as a minority group becomes more accepted, their suicide rates will drop.

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

Gender dysphoria literally is a mental illness, that under activist pressure had the terminology softened to avoid offending. Its a mental illness. You will never normalize mental illness to any sane people.

First of all, gender dysphoria stopped being considered a mental illness long before the modern trans rights movement.

But ok, let's say it is a mental illness. We should treat it like every other mental illness which is to destigmatize it and encourage the affected person to seek medical help. And we should trust the medical community, just like we do with every other illness.

This is what I mean when I say that we all trust doctors except for when it comes to issues that have been politicized. Very few people panic about doctors treating kids with bipolar because, unlike gender dysphoria, bipolar hasn't been politicized by the Right.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[Perspektiv]

7 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

becomes more accepted

That's part of the issue. We are normalizing mental illness. 

Rachel Dolezal was ridiculed when she stated she was black. Olli London for identifying as Korean. They eventually under pressure ended up apologizing to the Korean community, as both were accused of cultural appropriation. 

Emile Ratleband for identifying as 49 as a 69 year old. Also ridiculed.

Same logic as being trans. How is this not appropriating womanhood? I have yet to hear an argument explaining such things.

I only elude to trans women, as its the only group demanding the right to compete with biological women in sports. To be jailed with women. 

Heck, to be allowed to shower with women. 

You will never reach acceptance, making insane demands like this. Its polarizing and divisive.

The words "lactating people", or "menstruating people" or worse, the refusal to define the word woman or the bringing into question if men can give birth or have periods, is making a mockery of what used to be a woman, to appease a minority.

Has nothing to do with facts or evidence.

I will respect my fellow human, but the list of demands from this community are insane.

7 hours ago, Americana Antifa said:

Very few people panic about doctors treating kids with bipolar because, unlike gender dysphoria, bipolar hasn't been politicized by the Right.

Its also not being pushed onto kids, by social media influencers and the media. Its not trendy to be bipolar. 

Its incredibly trendy to be non binary or trans. 

When I was in high school, it was trendy to be goth, a skater or to pierce your tongue and nose.

People grow out of these phases. 

The danger with the love affair with trans activism, are those who get sucked into its wave, only to realize their mistake.

[Michael Hardner]

Let's be clear: a concern that we are "normalizing" something amounts to an assertion that "we" should pay attention to and assert community morals.

This, in turn, means that acceptance, tolerance and understanding might be things we would assert as part of our public moral sphere. 

[Perspektiv]

Trans people should be integrated in society.

Trans people aren't the issue.

Those pushing ideology to kids, are.

[Michael Hardner]

1 hour ago, Perspektiv said:

1. Trans people should be integrated in society.

2. Those pushing ideology to kids, are.

1. Says you.
2. You are pushing ideology, and that ideology will be pushed to kids in the form of homogenization.  Telling kids that they "should be integrated" is old thinking, proven beyond wrong - it's damaging.

The only "you should" you should "you should" is: "you should not you should".

[Americana Antifa]

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

That's part of the issue. We are normalizing mental illness. 

Normalizing mental illness is good. If someone is mentally ill, they shouldn't feel like they need to hide it and just suffer in silence. They should feel like they can talk about it and get the help they need.

It's the same thing with physical conditions. If a person needs a wheelchair to get around, they shouldn't feel ashamed. If a person can't see that well, they shouldn't refuse to wear glasses out of fear that society will look down on them.

We absolutely need to destigmatize mental illness the way we've destigmatized physical illness.

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Rachel Dolezal was ridiculed when she stated she was black. Olli London for identifying as Korean. They eventually under pressure ended up apologizing to the Korean community, as both were accused of cultural appropriation. 

I LOVE cultural appropriation.

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Same logic as being trans. How is this not appropriating womanhood? I have yet to hear an argument explaining such things.

What's wrong with appropriating womanhood? Womanhood is a culture. It's not exactly the same as an ethnic culture, since ethnicity is determined by heritage, whereas gender is determined by self-identity. But we all enjoy aspects of different cultures, whether ethnic or gender or whatever.

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

I only elude to trans women, as its the only group demanding the right to compete with biological women in sports. To be jailed with women. 

Heck, to be allowed to shower with women. 

You will never reach acceptance, making insane demands like this. Its polarizing and divisive.

I don't know if I explained this earlier, but sports leagues that allow trans competitors usually have rules regarding this. Like they'll only allow trans women to compete if they've been on hormones long enough that they no longer have a biological advantage. That's why trans women don't dominate women's sports.

Trans women aren't more likely to commit sexual assault in prison than cis women. Again, there are rules regarding trans women in prison. Most prisoners will take into account how long the person has been on hormones and such.

As for being allowed to shower with women, keep in mind that most trans people look like the gender they identify as. Personally, I think dividing people by gender in areas like lockers and showers is stupid, but if we're going to have that, it makes way more sense to allow trans people to use the spaces that align with their gender identity.

Should Buck Angel use the women's showers because he was born female?

Should Kim Petras used the men's showers because she was born male?

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

The words "lactating people", or "menstruating people" or worse, the refusal to define the word woman or the bringing into question if men can give birth or have periods, is making a mockery of what used to be a woman, to appease a minority.

How? First of all, keep in mind those terms are only used in a medical context. Secondly, how does more inclusive language harm women?

8 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

Its incredibly trendy to be non binary or trans. 

Do you have ANY evidence that people are becoming trans because it's trendy?

The idea that people would spend years in the hellish medical system so that they can transition, risking their relationships with their friends and family, knowing they will be putting their lives in danger because of the Republicans, all because they think being trans is trendy sounds absolutely insane.
 

This is where America is at right now. The Republican platform is all about treating trans people the way the Nazi Party treated Jews. What you're claiming would be like claiming Swiss Jews are moving to the Weimar Republic because being Jewish is trendy there.

Edited May 2, 2023 by Americana Antifa

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

You are pushing ideology

My ideology is less damaging than a man lobbing off his d*** or woman lobbing off her t*** because she was told it will help, only for some to regret it. 

Damaging as an adult, child abuse if it happened before they hit 18, and regretted it.

These are irreversible procedures and medication. It will save some from suicide, but there is no harm in considering those that it would not save. Right now, activists see those who regret it as fair game, or a threat that must be silenced.

When I was a child, I wanted to be a girl. I knew it. I played with my sisters toys, wore dresses, put nail polish on. My mother allowed me to do whatever, but reminded me I was a boy. Now, her approach is transphobic to some. 

Affirmation doesn't work for everyone. It most certainly would have not worked for me.

Am an effeminate male. Proudly so. 

Right now, this movement defies logic. Its why its being mocked by si many.

Slapping on makeup, pigtails and a dress don't make you a woman. It just doesn't.

[CdnFox]

1 hour ago, Americana Antifa said:

Normalizing mental illness is good.

No, it is not.  Normalizing the fact that people have a mental illness and that's not their fault is good, but not the illness itself.

It's like saying we should normalize having cancer. No - we might normalize the fact some people do and may or may not be able to treat it but pretending cancer is a good and healthy thing is stupid.

[Americana Antifa]

7 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

No, it is not.  Normalizing the fact that people have a mental illness and that's not their fault is good, but not the illness itself.

It's like saying we should normalize having cancer. No - we might normalize the fact some people do and may or may not be able to treat it but pretending cancer is a good and healthy thing is stupid.

Nobody is pretending that gender dysphoria is good. We're saying it's ok if you have it, it doesn't make you a lesser person, and it's good to get the help you need.

One day, we'll probably have a cure for gender dysphoria in the form of a pill, plus society will have reached a point where gender no longer exists. When that happens, there will be no more trans people, which is ok. What's not ok is trying to eliminate trans people through stigma or persecution.

[CdnFox]

7 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

Nobody is pretending that gender dysphoria is good.

They are absolutely pretending gender disphoria is good. In fact, when it was mentioned that perhaps we could cure it one day a group called it 'attempted genocide'.  They literally thought that we should consider this mental health issue to be a separate group of people and never fix it.

So yeah - the whole point is to make it a 'good' thing.

7 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

 

We're saying it's ok if you have it, it doesn't make you a lesser person, and it's good to get the help you need.

That's not what they're saying at all. that pretty much gets universal buy in. But you and your kind don't actually mean that, you go on to say that it's a great thing and it should be accepted and cherished, not cured.

7 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

One day, we'll probably have a cure for gender dysphoria in the form of a pill, plus society will have reached a point where gender no longer exists.

One of those things is possible. the other is only possible if all humans are dead. which admittedly would resolve the issue now that i think about it.

7 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

When that happens, there will be no more trans people, which is ok. What's not ok is trying to eliminate trans people through stigma or persecution.

Nope - if we even try it'll be called a genocide by the trans people.

Not that they're not already claiming that there's a trans genocide going on. I guess it'll be the second trans genocide.

 

And this is a common leftie tactic we see all the time. Downplay and downsize their actual agenda to make it sound reasonable, but in reality demand much more and agree to far less.

If this were all about treatment then fine but it's not.

[Americana Antifa]

4 minutes ago, CdnFox said:

They are absolutely pretending gender disphoria is good. In fact, when it was mentioned that perhaps we could cure it one day a group called it 'attempted genocide'.  They literally thought that we should consider this mental health issue to be a separate group of people and never fix it.

"A group," eh? What group was this? Do they have a lot of members? Do we have any evidence that they represent a common view?

This is such a common righty tactic. They claim that a horrible thing is about to happen and their evidence is that some random people with no followers on Twitter are demanding that said horrible thing must happen.

There are actually some deaf people who don't like that scientists are working on cures for deafness. It would mean the end of deaf culture, which apparently is a thing. But how many deaf people actually feel this way? There's no evidence that this is a common concern and I'm guessing it's not.

[CdnFox]

6 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

"A group," eh? What group was this? Do they have a lot of members? Do we have any evidence that they represent a common view?

Trans, yes, sure.

6 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

This is such a common righty tactic. They claim that a horrible thing is about to happen and their evidence is that some random people with no followers on Twitter are demanding that said horrible thing must happen.

That's actually a leftie tactic.  Also - pretending that leftie tactics are righty tactics is a lefty tactic

6 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

There are actually some deaf people who don't like that scientists are working on cures for deafness. It would mean the end of deaf culture, which apparently is a thing.

I'd be willing to listen to their arguments. If for the irony if nothing else.

6 minutes ago, Americana Antifa said:

But how many deaf people actually feel this way? There's no evidence that this is a common concern and I'm guessing it's not.

Deaf people desperately want to be non deaf.

Trans people do NOT want to stop being trans for the most part. What they want is to be the other gender and they can't. They don't want to stop wanting that. The psychological research is pretty clear.

Which makes sense - that's part of the whole gender disphoria thing. You crave to be the other sex. You don't crave not craving it.  whereas deaf people crave hearing.

I think if we could solve gender disphoria by magically turning boys into girls - they would think it's great.
But a pill that solved their problem would be seen as 'destroying who they are'.

Sorry kiddo - that was a better argument than most of your  horribly lame assed bullcrap but no, it would be seen as genocide.

 

[Michael Hardner]

3 hours ago, Perspektiv said:

1. My ideology is  ...

1. Yes but you said that people shouldn't push ideology to kids to begin with.

[August1991]

On 3/26/2023 at 12:59 PM, I am Groot said:

The issue of transgenderism has become one of fanatics browbeating the masses into obeying their absurd demands. It just seems easier for everyone to go along.....

Most of us are pretty tolerant, so when presented with the problem of gender dysphoria most agreed such people ought to be respected. Okay, that's fine....

 

Well said.

Like Newfoundlanders, modern English Canada is civilised.

[Perspektiv]

1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said:

Yes but you said that people shouldn't push ideology to kids to begin with.

I don't push anything to kids. Let them be kids.