Aristides Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 9 minutes ago, Mako said: Russia didn’t invade the Baltic nations when they applied to NATO, but Russians were not happy. Russian leaders feel they have to draw the line somewhere and Ukraine is where many want to draw the line. If a Ukraine outside of NATO will bring peace let’s give it a try. Even talk about NATO membership for Ukraine obviously has helped produce the current disaster. You should recognize that the CCP is the primary danger to the U.S. Xi Jin Ping is delighted to see NATO and Russia at each other’s throats. Ukraine as it was, not what is left after Putin chops it up. Ukraine will not negotiate as long as there are Russian troops on Ukrainian soil. That should be obvious by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 (edited) Please note that Russia didn't start their aggression (first with the annexation of Crimea) when Ukraine applied to NATO. Russia started its aggression in 2014 when Putin Puppet, Viktor Yanukovych, was deposed by the people of Ukraine. Putin invaded because he no longer held political influence in Ukraine. Edited March 15, 2023 by Boges 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Aristides said: R̶u̶s̶s̶i̶a̶ USA and NATO destroyed the peace, Fixed for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Fixed for you. But only the USA when a Dem is in office amiright? Will PP try to remove Canada from NATO if he's elected? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: Sounds like a territory dispute to me. It has ONLY DEVOLVED into a territory dispute because Putin FAILED to take Kiev. Once he succeeds in Donbas, he will save his pennies and come back for Kiev. Of course taking Ukraine's vast gas reserves off the Southern coast will accelerate that finish of Ukraine as a nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Mako said: Wow, not every dictator is Hitler. Let’s give the Hitler analogy a rest, it’s exhausted. Putin is the most like Hitler since Hitler. He is waging SCORCHED EARTH war on Ukrainian CIVILIANS. 1 hour ago, Mako said: Putin’s aims might be limited. Reasonable Russians have concerns about NATO expansion and Russian minorities within Ukraine. Give peace a chance. https://www.newsweek.com/russia-ukraine-invasion-end-ukraine-war-four-conditions-1685492 Yeah, "limited" to STEALING Ukrainian gas reserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, reason10 said: It never would have happened if LYING JOE hadn't stolen the presidency. Putin NEVER would have had the balls to pull the stunts he's pulling now. DeSantis is entirely correct. He is not lying Because Trump would have GIVEN Putin Ukraine by trading it for a Moscow tower deal. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boges Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 Admins should take note that this thread has turned into a fresh Ukraine War thread. The idea that a GOP front-runner supports Ukraine is lost on this thread, we're just debating the same things we have for the past year in other threads. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myata Posted March 15, 2023 Author Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 6 hours ago, Perspektiv said: It matters in knowing how his objectives would lead to conflict the moment he lost control of the state. Ukraine never "belonged" to Putin even by that twisted logic. It's been an independent, state, member of the UN for three decades. There's no more justification for Putin's barbarous war than for Hitler's. Why would anyone be looking to apologize and justify actions of a violent, brutal and murderous thug? Quote If it's you or them, the truth is equidistant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, myata said: Why would anyone be looking to apologize and justify actions of a violent, brutal and murderous thug? Am not apologizing for his behavior. My point is that this conflict could have ended early, or been avoided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeaverFever Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 8 hours ago, Nationalist said: Ukraine has unleashed a Neo-NAZI battalion on that region which was in the process of murdering anyone who spoke Russian. Absolute lie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCanMan Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 11 hours ago, myata said: DeSantis, CarlsonBurned, annihilated to dust cities; bombed hospitals, schools and maternity wards. Hundreds, probably thousands of documented war crimes... Azovs at it again? Quote only a "territorial dispute". It's more than that, it's partly resistance to NATO incursion but he can't say that. Quote "Territorial dispute", really? This is what you call a brutal invasion by a power-hungry dictator; not a bit better than that of Hitler in the past war? "Territorial dispute between Germany and Poland, 1940?"? "Should not have provoked Hitler?" Why was Biden in Ukraine making off with bags of loot like any good oligarch? Now his Ukrainian cronies are raking in American taxpayer cash. Quote A decision to participate in other people's war is an important one; it should not be taken lightly; objectivity and honesty; remembering the lessons of the past and the principles is an important part of it too. It's Biden's war. NATO's war. Quote If CNN gave an infinite number of monkeys an infinite number of typewriters, leftists would believe everything they typed. If you missed something on the Cultist Narrative Network, don't worry, the dolt horde here will make sure everyone hears it. Kamala didn't get where she is because of her achievements or anything that came out of her mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Perspektiv said: Am not apologizing for his behavior. My point is that this conflict could have ended early, or been avoided. Yes, by surrender. This is the glory that President Trump would bring: this is his "peace plan" - appeasement. We will have perpetual peace if we forever allow aggressors to roll over borders unopposed. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: We will have perpetual peace if we forever allow aggressors to roll over borders unopposed. So what's your end game? Allow Russia to raze 20 to 30% of the country and kill half a million people? What's your solution to this? Of course, one must fight back, but at what point do you cut your losses and negotiate peace? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 15, 2023 Report Share Posted March 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: 1. So what's your end game? 2. Allow Russia to raze 20 to 30% of the country and kill half a million people? What's your solution to this? 3. Of course, one must fight back, but at what point do you cut your losses and negotiate peace? 1. Stability and respect for borders ? 2. If Ukraine wants to fight an aggressor then support them. We would do more if they were in NATO. 3. They seem to be digging in to say they will make Russia pay the maximum price for this incursion. Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 35 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: 1. Stability and respect for borders ? I want the same, but we have bullies in this world which couldn't care less, and will land grab by inserting puppet regimes, or via lethal force. The US is no different. How do you see this ending, was the question? 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: If Ukraine wants to fight an aggressor then support them. What if Putin calculated he could afford to lose people and money into 2025? Being up against someone with a high appetite for human casualty. At a certain level of loss, negotiations will be for the entire country or bust, VS a portion of it. There is no end game, basically. 1 hour ago, Michael Hardner said: They seem to be digging in to say they will make Russia pay the maximum price for this incursion That's like a boxer using his face to tire out his opponent. It's an insanely incomprehensible tactic, considering the Ukrainian losses are far heavier. You think Putin could care less if he lost 400k prisoners? In Ukraine, their losses are just as heavy, but are of trained military and innocent civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hardner Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 36 minutes ago, Perspektiv said: 1. I want the same, but we have bullies in this world which couldn't care less, and will land grab by inserting puppet regimes, or via lethal force. The US is no different. 2. How do you see this ending, was the question? 1. Well then we can do something, as long as we agree that Russia is wrong. 2. Russia ceasing fire and stalemate with land divisions where it all started ? Quote Click to learn why Climate Change is caused by HUMANS Michael Hardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perspektiv Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 16 minutes ago, Michael Hardner said: as long as we agree that Russia is wrong. Thats an easy agreement, but where I would disagree is the continued funding of this stalemate. I think all parties should go to the negotiating table, and to do so from a strong position regarding Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkman Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 I get a feeling that Trump would be the better of the 2 options for Republican president. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 9 hours ago, OftenWrong said: Fixed for you. No, you fixed it for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 30 minutes ago, Aristides said: No, you fixed it for you. Ok. As long as we agree it's fixed I'm fine with who did what to whom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 10 hours ago, Boges said: But only the USA when a Dem is in office amiright? Will PP try to remove Canada from NATO if he's elected? It certainly seems that way. I'm not here to teach you people history. Everyone can just go read what happened. I suggest starting at least as far back as Feb 2014. As for NATO, my favourite memory is when Don Trump whipped the rest of NATO asses, forcing deadbeats to pony up for what they originally signed onto. Deadbeat countries like Canada. In doing so he gave NATO a huge financial boost. And was praised by Jens Stolltenberg. I might have that name wrong. I'm not here to teach you people history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aristides Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 13 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Ok. As long as we agree it's fixed I'm fine with who did what to whom. Well, if you want to be childish, fill your boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OftenWrong Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 6 minutes ago, Aristides said: Well, if you want to be childish, fill your boots. Childish? I have a valid point to make and have a right to be heard. Just because I don't say it the way you like You seem to want to distract from me making the point that the USA and NATO provoked the Ukrainian situation into a crisis. I find that highly suspicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robosmith Posted March 16, 2023 Report Share Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, OftenWrong said: Childish? I have a valid point to make and have a right to be heard. Just because I don't say it the way you like You seem to want to distract from me making the point that the USA and NATO provoked the Ukrainian situation into a crisis. I find that highly suspicious. The FACT is, Yanukovych was a Putin puppet who unleashed his Berkut secret police to kill peaceful protesters in Maidan. The West offering ALTERNATIVES to Putin's boot may seem like a provocation to Putin puppets, but in reality it is a logical choice from them to make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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